Apprenticeship- What to charge??

[JDeMoss]

Just curious what most of you would charge for a 1 to 2 month apprenticeship. I have a guy from outside of the country that wants to come and study with me for a few months. He also wants to stay with me, so that is another aspect to the money situation. But, I have no idea what to charge for the apprenticeship.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[mer]

as much as he can reasonably afford. he'll value the experience more if he has to make a sacrifice.

or you could just indenture his ass..... make him work on your new house.
peace, m

[Natedizzle]

50,000 and a Ferrari...

Nathan

[Lithomancy]

avg rental of living unit + studio rental(fuel, glass etc) + your wisdom= min 500 an month

[HumanLathe]

avg rental of living unit + studio rental(fuel, glass etc) + your wisdom= min 500 an month

500 a month is that joke?

[Wierdeer]

more like 2000 min

[Wierdeer]

and thats bein nice really nice

[newmexicomagma]

i would think no less than 300-400 a monrh for living and no less than 200 dollars for shop space being hes not going to use alot of gas in the beginning. and lessons are invaluable i would charg no less than 500 for the month for lessons but that is still cheap in my mind. it seems to me he wants to learn to work and that hes not going to do ur prep or anything like that? just pay u and learn. i mean to me i would charge him no less than 1000 for the month and i think that is a lowball figure.

[ACE]

50,000 and a Ferrari...

Nathan

plus six diamond rings and a helper monkey

[AWhiskeyDrunk]

hmmm...teaching helper monkeys to blow glass... you may have something there maybe we can eliminate the chinese import market...

[Nokey]

hmmm...teaching helper monkeys to blow glass... you may have something there maybe we can eliminate the chinese import market...
monkeys with torches......I don't know....sounds dangerous
(monkeys packin' bowls sounds cool though)

[AWhiskeyDrunk]

actually I guess I have some serious questions. From the POV of somebody who wants to be an apprentice. How is somebody supposed to pay $500-$2000 a month? am I expected to be wealthy? would I have another job to support the apprenticeship? My impression of being an apprentice means constantly working on glass. Would a teacher help sell pipes? I mean I'm at a point where I can make sellable spoons, but would love to apprentice under somebody to delve deeper into the glass arts. I will graduate in december and expect to have a few grand saved up. I'm expecting/willing to move for this. Which means I'd need a place to stay. Are there live-in apprentice opportunities out there? I'm very dedicated to glass and really want to make a life out of it despite knowing the difficulty and risk of failure. I am eager to learn...I'm just not a rich man...

[newmexicomagma]

i guess this is what im saying. being that the apprentice knows nothing of glass e will not be able to help with the prep. now in your case i feel it would be cheaper cause lets say for instance with me i would want u to pull my points, make my cane, and pull my stringer. that would pay for something cause with that done it cuts my work time down. and during that time u are continually melting glass. i think the teacher should help in the beginning to sell their apprentices stuff i am for mine. i would recommend as a apprentice to have another part time gig. i did for a while in the beginning till i knew i was able to make and sell enough to cover my weekly costs. it seems like u (whiskey) are in a similar boat i was in. i would recommend classes/ apprentices but also look forward to long days at your torch at home. i think having your stuff setup at home is invaluable beingu can work whenever u want. and also when i am saying 1000 a month we are talking the expense of gasses, glass tools for u to use the teachers knowledge etc. i mean i buy myself prolly use 300$ a month in gasses. so i still think that 1000$ is a fairly cheap rate. i paid 400 just for 40 hours of teaching. the guy b4 that wanted 1000 for 30 hours. its not cheap.

[Glassy79]

Who pays for the food? and other little goodies that might come up?

[Zed]

Who pays for the food? and other little goodies that might come up?

Are you running a glass shop or a bed and breakfast?

[ACE]

Are you running a glass shop or a bed and breakfast?

lol....seriously. i hope you know this guy before you let him in your home for that long....

[ech]

I asked a tatoo artist how much they get for an appreticeship once and they said $10000 for 2 months worth of training.

[David Sandidge]

Considering that this person may be of limited means, you could work out an arangement such as an employment contract. This contract would specify a value for the knowledge he will gain and the cost of materials. You may or may not want to include the cost of his living expense. In this contract it can be agreed that after a specified amount of time in which this guy should arrive at a certain skill level, he will remain as an employee and you will pay him an amount of money for his merchandise, let's say 25% after material cost. He will then continue to work for you until your profit from his work is equal to the previously specified value. You should also include a non-compete agreement that would limit his ability to work within a certain geographic area for a period of time after he leaves your employment.

These types of contracts are common and are enforcable in court. Testing a contract like this can be costly, but the looser is usually made responsible to pay any legal costs incurred. On the internet you can find sample contracts written specifically for the state in which you work.

The value of the knowedge is really the biggest issue that needs to be figured out and agreed upon. Usually in these cases the value would be equal to the earning potencial over a given period of time. I don't know whats reasonable but you should be able to find similar cases if you research these types of contracts. For the most part, I would think that as long as the amount is reasonable it is basically whatever both parties agree upon.

There is always an amount of risk involved in things like this. Both of you should be certain that you trust and feel good about this before you step into anything. Sometimes these things turn out to be ugly situations. I recomment that you speak to an legal professional first.

[Pilgrim]

i would make this guy take an apitude "not spelt right" and jump threw aton of pretest hoops 1st then i would let him sleep in my wood shed for ohhhhh $2.k. amonth

[schmoinkel]

I don't know ...2 g's a month is a bit much in my book

Say your going to pay him $8 an hour to do your prep work (and learning a shit ton of other stuff along the way). if he's working 40 hours a week that makes $320 a week X 4 weeks =1280 a month. Covering his rent, glass, food and so on. Plus your getting the benifit of not having to do prep work so much and spend your time making money.
It realy depends on what he/she is bringing to the table, how fast/good are they?

2 year exp. $10 an hour?

Whisky Mcglugglug's got a point, you don't have to be rich, you just have to be willing work it off and be willing to learn.

But hey what do I know i'm no JDeMoss,


Scott

[Glassy79]

We have all burnt ourselfs at the torch at one time or another. what if? he got burned? and he had to go to the hospotal? who pays? are you ins for this if he desides to sue? he could have one beer too many, if he drinks . and falls down the staires. your charging him. there for he can sue you! do you really want to be a tearcher for X amount of dollars? will it, is it, worth the risk? I's ask a pro about this. better yet say no, and do your thing,

I think the big problem today is. everyone, and anyone that has been working glass see's $$ if they teach. Then they bitch about someone stealing their work. I have been asked more times then I can count. and still say no!

you deside whats right for you.

glassy79

[ShttrdSpctrm]

this one time my girl was gonna get me a lesson from someone here, dude said $100 an hour. i thought that was pretty outrageous.

[The Goat]

has anyone brung to the table what it cost for one semester of collage? or what a vocational school charges for welding or computer work?

Remember when your figuring this amount that even if you dont go anywhere with those places you still have to pay for the classes, and their not cheep.

If you want to help someone out by all means do it. but, if its all them remember what it would cost them to learn something else that "could" make them lots of money.

[The Goat]

this one time my girl was gonna get me a lesson from someone here, dude said $100 an hour. i thought that was pretty outrageous.

what if he was making $100 an hour doing production? should he take a pay cut to teach?

[lucidvisions]

Goat I completely agree. I have recently taken this train of thought and not only does it pay us what we're worth but it weeds out the people who are not serious about it. I took what I should make out of production in an hour and added 20%. The 20% to deal with all the b.s. that can come up with teaching them. I would definately adjust the scale if the person doen't need constant supervision. That way I can teach them a tech and let them go at it. But if I gotta tell you how to turn on torch, it's damn well gonna be worth my time.

Josh

[Pilgrim]

$2,000 amonth and the wood shed if he is good apicks up quick maybe cut them a little slack as long as they are adding to thing and not being a pain...

[AWhiskeyDrunk]

I can COMPLETELY understand needing/deserving to be paid for the knowledge and the time. Having a useless apprentice isn't good for anybody. but to say that higher prices "weeds out the people who are not serious about it" is a bit unfair. All it really does is weed people out that can't afford it. You can have some rich prick but along that wants to blow glass cause he thinks it will make him cool and can afford to blow say $5000 a month, that doesn't mean he's dedicated to glass. At the same time, I consider myself to be very dedicated to glass couldn't swing $2000 a month plus rent, a vehicle, food, etc... Don't get me wrong some of you guys and gals are incredible artists I would be honored to be taught by nearly anyone here and understand that I would owe my teacher a great deal including money for their time, knowledge and supplies, but to say higher prices weed people who aren't serious seems unfair and plain wrong imho. I would like to think that somebody that is willing to take on an apprentice would do so out of love for glass, in an attempt to actually teach the art and pass on the art/tradition and not to make money. Sacrifices would have to be made by both parties. I only hope that when I am ready, there is somebody willing to take me on...

[mistahead]

i disagree awhiskey drunk...if someone is REALLY serious about blowing glass then they can buck up figure how to make up some money and save it. get a job,plant trees all summer, save up your cash. "any thing worth doing is worth doing right" after all it is YOUR FUTURE your looking out for here right?? anyhow you can chose to go on your own..it will still cost a ton and alot more time thorugh figureing out everything by trial and error. and like the goat said, look into learning any trade at school?? how much does it cost?? i think you should charge accordingly..and if its not digging into someones time and pockets..then why should you be diggin into your yours???

[bc]

I will not teach folks anymore until they show me some cash. I've helped out to many folks an then looked at my work pile an it cost me money. Before I wanted to help an teach folks so I wouldn't be bored at the studio, no ones returns favors, charge a mothafucker!

dood had a good point about how much welding classes are, school, no different here anymore....

[nickglassdood]

I will not teach folks anymore until they show me some cash. I've helped out to many folks an then looked at my work pile an it cost me money. Before I wanted to help an teach folks so I wouldn't be bored at the studio, no ones returns favors, charge a mothafucker!

dood had a good point about how much welding classes are, school, no different here anymore....



dood wtf i thought i was movin in next week ...... i got the mini bus almost fixed and all packed with my 6 dogs... my kids get outa quarinteen next week.. dood yur messing up my flo bro

[Glassy79]

you take a class at the studio in corning. the cost is around $1200 a week the the course room and board! and they are ins if ya get hurt!

glassy

[Pilgrim]

i still say, $2,000 amonth w/ room /board is a good deal

[newmexicomagma]

i think its a killer deal. and im sorry whiskey but i think there is more people than u think that started out broke. i for one. its like any other schooling u r taking a risk to try and make a living in a certain trade. weve all spent dues getting to where we r at wether its paying for classes or buying tons of glass. its just motivation. if u dont have the money for the class u want u just work more/harder till u do have the money.

[AWhiskeyDrunk]

ehh..it's not like I don't see your point... been saving for a bit...will keep saving

[ShttrdSpctrm]

i agree with everyone here that says charge them the money. but i still think 100 an hour is a bit much. especially cause it was in his garage and i know he didnt have insurance, if i was ever to hurt myself. i have never takin a class, ive learned to blow glass on my own . i really want, or should i say need, to take classes. i think that sacrifices need to be made on both sides, but the student should be willing to do more. i know i would be.

[lucidvisions]

I'll be flat out honest that the apprenticeships that we have given are limited, two in fact. They take up HUGE amounts of your time, if you're going to do them right and teach them what they paid for. When I teach someone it is time away from my responsibilities, scheduled production, family, play time ect. I don't go out looking for apprentices, they usually come to us. I agree whiskey that it doesn't weed out all the people who are not serious but it does a sufficent job. Plus I wouldn't devote ANY time for Any price to a student if they were not serious about it. When I do look at our apprenticeship fees I feel they are very reasonable and average 20-25$ an hour with a comittment to 20 hours a week for a six month period.

Josh

[ShttrdSpctrm]

i might pay matt the "Human Lathe" $100 an hour to teach me flower marbles. :D

[ShttrdSpctrm]

oh ya prolly for lesson on those sick ass planet marbles he does too

[ShttrdSpctrm]

oh ya i got a room for ya too :D

[Din]

How much, on average, would you normally make in those two months? Teaching will take you out of work, especially in the beginning. Even if you are having an apprentice do your prep work, or production or whatever, chances are it wont be up to your standards for a bit (even if they have prior experience), and your consumption of materials will remain the same if not increase (especially when materials become "waste" as opposed to "inventory").
Of course, one tends to learn quite a bit when teaching, and having a dedicated apprentice may end up being a rewarding experience.
I hope that it works out for the best.

[Glacier_Arts_Studio]

500 a month is that joke?

it must be a joke, i rent rooms in my house for $125 a week... my bench is $50 a night and my knowledge (as limited as it is) is $50 an hour...!!! and i'm not all that much of a glass blower after only being at it for a year and a half...:chilling: