Quartz Encased Kiln Elements

[indolering]

I am really damn interested in the Quartz incased kiln elements. I want to make my own, custom kiln. Could I take the elements out and reshape the quarts (add angles and stuff) or are there special connectors at the ends? Will it void the warrenty? Are these just standard elements in Quartz glass?

I will be emailing my Kiln God (this guy rules) over at the www.kilndr.com. So if you have questions ask here and I will relay them to him : )

[T Lewis Glass]

That sounds neat but ,,,,, Why ?

I'm just wondering .



~Todd

[NUBBLET]

That is the shit I have been trying to find out what size and wall thickness they are . The quartz tubes greatly increase the life of the element and promote a more even heat in the kiln . Dust will kill the elements very quick , the tube protects from the dust . If you could ask those questions for me , I would greratly appreciate it , Thanks.

[Mike_Aurelius]

??? Nubblet - I've never heard that quartz extends the life of elements -- elements have a life based on duty cycle and temperature.

Quartz is usually used to isolate the electified element and protect it from being touched, quartz also helps heat the kiln by increasing the surface area of the heating element, but again, I've never heard any claims that quartz will extend the life of elements.

Since quartz elements are usually mounted at the top of a kiln, dust is usually not a problem up there.

The chief problem with quartz is the price of the tubing. I've looked at putting quartz in my kilns, but the cost was prohibitive - and there are no "angle" pieces - they would have to be "made", and that adds expense.

[smutboy420]

Any that I have seen had thin wall tube that looked to be about 12mm dia.
no angles at the corners. (if you wanted to you could cut the tubes at 45 degree)
the elements just ran up the tube and the corners it just was not covered compleatly by tube. but the inside of the corner gets good covrage anyway.
The reasone for the quartz tube is mostly to keep you from touching the elements with a metal tool and getting shocked.
to me its over kill sence glass kilns have a very life as far as kilns go. and if you recess you elements you don't have much of a risk of touching a live element.

[Greymatter Glass]

I've always been told quartz tubes reduce elemnt life because they concntrate the heat and force the elements to burn hotter.. but whatever.

The only reason you'd need to fully encase your elemtns is if you want an atmospheric kiln that uses forming gas to displace all the oxygen. Elements need oxygen to function, so these kilns pump air through the quartz tubes for the elements, keeping it out of the actually furnace body. (the inside of the kiln)

The dust factor isn't worth the hundreds of dollars in quartz it would take to line a kiln. If your elements are not recessed into the walls, but hung on donuts w/ a mullite rod then quartz would be good to 1) keep the elemnts straight and up, out of the way, and 2) protect you from electrical shock. ITS NOT JUST METAL TOOLS!!!! Hot glass conducts electricity also.

A better system for not getting shocked is it rig a kill-switch to your kiln door so that when you open it the elements are de-energized.

Quartz is still a luxury that is nice if you can afford it, but it's not really a mandatory feature when considering kiln for annealing boro. ... if you're making dichro it's another story...

-Doug

[IrieGuy05]

So on the subject of not getting shocked, when you say hot glass conducts electricity you mean if your holding the hot peice with a metal tool, then touch the hot peice to a coil it would conduct it into the metal then to you? I'm just thinking that since the punty/blowtube is cold the electricity couldn't make it all the way back to you through the cold part.

The thing is I use hotdog tongs which snap back open a bit when letting go of a peice. I haven't hit one of the coils yet but I know someday I will be tired and in a hurry and hit one.

Anyone ever hit an exposed coil with a metal tool?? I wonder if it would just knock the shit out of you and throw you back or if it would like kill you.

sorry to get off subject but I've wondered about this before..

[Mike_Aurelius]

heheheh...ask any furnace worker - they will tell you that hot glass will conduct current, even up through a cold blowpipe. Plenty of them have been knocked on their asses...Sky Campbell used to hang out around here - maybe he will "pipe" in.

I hit an element with a bead mandrel, fortunately it was a 120 volt kiln, but I still got a hell of a jolt.

[NUBBLET]

I have only seen DaVinci kilns (high end top quality) with a quartz tube , the element is in side . The notion that temperature also matters to the life of the elements only argues my point , ANYTHING that has dust generates more heat and gets all screwed up , with no dust the element does not have the extra stress of heating the dust and not allowing for CORRECT heat distribution . I cant think of anything that works better dirty , but hey to each his own .

I have used a tube handle to shift the elemnet around and have even touched the element on accident , I have never been shocked , but worry about it , and forgot to mention that benefit in first post .

[Greymatter Glass]

cold glass will not conduct electricity (well... under 10,000 volts)

It's dielectric properties make glass a unique material in electronics.... when it's hot it conducts, and it's resistance is neatly related to temp, so it can be used for high-power fuses, resistors, capacitors, and all manner of applications for insulation.

You can use a cool rod to move around your elements all day with out getting shocked.... but if you were holding a 1000 degree pipe in tweezers and hit the elements just right you'd get zapped. You'd have to touch the coil on a single turn... touching 2 turns will just short out the coil and you'd probably not make a lower resistance ground.....

Still, don't TRY it, just know it CAN happen...

The only reason I dont see a few specks of dust being a major concern is that the elements are sitting on dust, they're in constantr contact with the bricks.... all I can think of being a problem would be if you got glass on an element, then it could corrode the oxide layer and kill the element. On the otherhand, if your element is fully coated in a layer of refractory dust that would concentrate the heat back on the element and shorten its lifespan.... but I've never seen an element THAT dirty (I'm sure it happens tho...everything happens)

-Doug

[indolering]

I haven't forgotten about this thread, I am on it. Somehow I got it in my head that some brand of encased elements had a lifetime replacement warrenty. Damn my head! False memories are wierd. I didn't even notice we had them until I read about them in one of my mom's books. But then, after examining a lot of childhood memories and various incidents (like this one) it happens a lot.
-Indole

[IrieGuy05]

How hard is it to install normal kiln coils?

[Greymatter Glass]

not at all... you should replace them every 500-800 hours of use, depending on how hot you get them.

Indole... maybe the company offered free replacement... if it's a small kiln it wouldnt be that exspensive... all you do is slide the coil out and slide the new one in.....if it was a while back, who knows...


Um... yep

-Doug

[Abe Fleishman]

Quartz encased coils are great for only one thing in my mind. To hold the elements in place under your shelf. We use quartz tubes for some of our furnaces to protect then from vapors and falling out of the shelf. Works great. I don't think that lampworking kilns need this upgrade just cause you don't really need to protect the elements and you don't have to worry about them falling out. If you are using temps around 1800f-2300f I would recommend using them. The cost is high but worth it.

[jiminyrootkit]

i talked to my kiln tech buddy today, asking about some other shit, but this came up,
now, i assume there may be some people putting tube over the elements on thier own, but the commercial version is sealed around the elements, and evacuated (vaccuum, to some extent)
t keeps the elements from oxydizing, thus drastically increasing thier lifespan.
and keeps you from shocking the piss out of yourself, as a bonus.
-f

[indolering]

i talked to my kiln tech buddy today, asking about some other shit, but this came up,
now, i assume there may be some people putting tube over the elements on thier own, but the commercial version is sealed around the elements, and evacuated (vaccuum, to some extent)
t keeps the elements from oxydizing, thus drastically increasing thier lifespan.
and keeps you from shocking the piss out of yourself, as a bonus.
-f
My kiln guys didn't have much of an opinion. He said the powdered elements were the best if lifetime was your thing. I'm going to experiment. I have a neon friend who I could have vacuum seal the tues.

Shit I could have em put neon in it too, I think I will wait unit I make my 250 for that ; )
Zach