parragon f-120 help

[Doc Holliday]

Hello, I did a long shift last night and ran my kiln at 1050 for over 12 hrs, today when I went out to work my kiln would only heat up to 500-590 degrees... Did I overheat the elements? or perhaps the digi controller broke again?! anyone else ever have this problem with parragon kilns? thanks

[β]

just checking, but thats farenheit right? 565c means 1050f.

My little paragon hasn't had a problem like that w/the digi control.

[Doc Holliday]

yes its fareheit, the coils turn off once it hits around 550... if i leave the door wide open they eventually turn on and heat up but soon as i close it they turn off....

[jeves311]

i had that problem on my f130 doc and it was the digi controller. Hope it works out for you. Paragon was real easy to deal with though.

[andrew brown]

I have the 130 and have had problems since day one.. I got it after being used once at the tucson show...
Ever since Ive had it, it melts puntys on marbles, throwing away curved puntys is frustrating as hell!
also it turns off when it wants often, changes ramps when it wants often, and last week the one day I was using sparkle colors, I came in and the controller said 7.. 7????
Just 7 and no buttons worked, I turned it off then on again and the temp was 1290 not so good for chrome. Yesterday after 1/2 the cycle it said fe5 and shut off.. I talked to paragon and they said there is a bad chip in it and I need to get a new one.. Frustrating as a new kiln is not your most purchased item.. Also frustrating to have a kiln to be used only as a backup because you dont trust it to anneal a mushroom pendant.... Actually I dont trust it to heat up a pizza right now.. Funny as it was going to be used to anneal goblets and thin delicate work,, good luck with that..
So needless to say we use the big aim.. I'm not going to swear off this kiln, unless someone wants to buy it :) . Ill call paragon and get a chip and hope that it works.. It would be nice to have a new kiln come with a new chip.....
sounds like a reacurring problem

andrew

with all of that said I met the paragon rep at the isgb show and she was one of the nicest people around, so I hope I can get this turned around..

[J B]

we have a 120 & 130 . the 120 has had the digi controler replaced once on the 120 ( under warranty) the l e d's would go out -- glad we knew what programs were what ? Our problems are with moving it , being xtra carefull and not jarring it at all ,the lights go - when plugged back in ???
are these controlers that sensitive ? and the lights are going out again ??? have had it for 5 yrs.
No problems w/ the 130 yet ??? maybe someone from Paragon will chime in, if they are on this board ???
joe

[smutboy420]

Yep sounds like a crappy controller for sure

[Doc Holliday]

guess its time for controller #3 on my parragon, hope its still under warranty otherwise i might be coming your way smutboy.. thanks for replys

[Arnold Howard]

I have the 130 and have had problems since day one.. I got it after being used once at the tucson show...
.

Andrew, I'm sorry you've had so many problems with your digital controller. Have you called Paragon to resolve this yet?

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

[melter skelter]

Ive had nothing but problems with my f120. got it two years ago brand new and had to replace the pyrometer right off the bat to even get it to work. Ive been thru 2 digi controllers, an old model and a new one. They were really glitchy when they were working too. Kinda like how Andrews would jump segments an shit. The last time I used my Paragon F120 it slumped/ puddled an entire 10 hour days worth of marbles !!!! The relay got stuck on. when I went out to my shop in the AM the readout said 1777. but I reckin it was even hotter.

... and I dont have anything nice to say about the folks over at paragon either. They tried tell me my warranty was up when I still had like 8 months left on it. I had to have Winship call and vouch for me. To tell them when I bought the $1000 piece of junk.

Maybe they're getting tired of replacing $350 digital controllers on thier kilns? mmmmm

when I read this thread I started to get all pissed again. remembering what a pain in the ass my F120 was. I better go melt something and anneal it in my 12 year old little "good kiln" to calm down.

if anyone can fix my F120 in or around Los Angeles, or they want to buy it 'as is', hit me up. Its just taking up space right now.

[melter skelter]

Hey Arnold, I didnt see that you had posted right before me. I wasnt trying to talk about you in the present. I just didnt realize you were on here.

It got to the point with my kiln and dealing with y'all .... that I just gave up. I had such a hard time getting a replacement digi controller when I WAS under warranty That I was pretty darn sure you wouldnt help me out when I WASNT under warranty. The thing is, I WORK REALLY HARD for my money, and Im not going to throw it away on buying another digi controller from you when I have zero faith in your products. Ive been holding onto my f120 in hopes that I would meet a kiln master builder and they could rebuild my f120 to make it work like it should. sorry Ive got to call you out like this but Im not happy with your product. and I dont want other HARD WORKING glassblowers to blow thier money on IFFY gear.

repectfully yours, Mike Gong

[J B]

Arnold, Do you guys have problems like this often with these two - f 120 - f 130

Shit, I'm fixing to move and "dread" moving these two ( shit I already need a controler for the 120 and it's out of warranty) . it really screwed up about 6 months after I hooked "the new one up "

Come on now, make this right and hook us up some "good" controlers !!!!!! I had my share of nitemares with people from paragon too ! Break out some of the one's that don't F ---- Up ! We are the people who keep ypu in business and I know you don't want any "bad" vibes heading your way !

[hookedonsilicate]

I am on controller # 3 as well. under warranty but still

[samyamini]

i ad just assumed that someone in my shop had messed with the program. but now that i read this i have many of the same issues with my 120. it likes to heat up to 1050, stay there for about 45 minutes and then just turn itself off.
after this happens you cant run the program untill you turn the kiln off and then back on again. i still dont know for sure if its just out of program or broken. just chiming in.

[vetropod]

I sure am glad to have an AIM! I've had two major moves since I've owned it and it still runs like a champ :chilling:

[J B]

rub it in will ya !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:tantrum:

[vetropod]

rub it in will ya

Sorry. :tongue2:

[J B]

that's ok :peace: , it just gets under your skin when you pay out that much money ! guess I don't need to rant either ? it's frigin too hot in NC and working on land (days) and doing glass at night will get to ya ....
peace joe

[Arnold Howard]

if anyone can fix my F120 in or around Los Angeles, or they want to buy it 'as is', hit me up. Its just taking up space right now.

When you replace a controller, don't throw away the old one. The manufacturer, Orton Ceramic Foundation, can usually refurbish a controller for around $75.

I don't blame you for being upset with your kiln. I hear very few complaints about the F-series, but when something is wrong, we definitely want to know about it. We have found the Orton Sentry Xpress controller to be very reliable, but things can go wrong.

We can look up a kiln's date of manufacture from the serial number. Apparently your kiln shipped from the factory and was in stock for several months before you bought it. Unless we have a returned warranty card, we don't know when a customer takes delivery of the kiln from the dealer.

But we should have been more responsive to your request for help. We are constantly working on customer service and recently hired a new manager for that department.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

[Natedizzle]

I have been running paragons for about five years now... I have had issues with both of mine, but Paragon got on it immediately and fixed the issues free of charge including sending out new controllers... and calling back to make sure the problem was resolved.

that said, the orton sentry xpress is perhaps the worst controller I have ever used including the cheap ass fuji's. I suggest replacing it with a 12 key orton if you get the chance. I much prefer the paragons to aims or even my LGW, but for example having to shut off my controller just to change the hold time to start an anneal cycle is really annoying.

I have never talked to you Arnold Howard, but if I may offer a suggestion it is that you offer a 12 key option or upgrade with all of your kilns. IT really is that much more of what we need for our work. if you would like to discuss it direct feel free to call me 206-999-2822. I would be interested in upgrading today if possible!


Nathan

[Arnold Howard]

Arnold, Do you guys have problems like this often with these two - f 120 - f 130

Come on now, make this right and hook us up some "good" controlers !!!!!! I had my share of nitemares with people from paragon too ! Break out some of the one's that don't F ---- Up ! We are the people who keep ypu in business and I know you don't want any "bad" vibes heading your way !

I am always very concerned when I hear about problems such as the ones you've had with your kiln. Occasionally a defective controller gets past our testing station.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

[smutboy420]

Man and here I was feeling bad because I have had 2 controllers ever sent back to hotasstools for warranty repair of any kind.
1 was a loose wire and the other was one that some how got a used relay that I some how got mixed in with my stock of new ones.
, But I still felt that 2 repairs was 2 too many repairs in 2 years.

Hum I guess I don't feel so bad now.

[Arnold Howard]

I much prefer the paragons to aims or even my LGW, but for example having to shut off my controller just to change the hold time to start an anneal cycle is really annoying.

I have never talked to you Arnold Howard, but if I may offer a suggestion it is that you offer a 12 key option or upgrade with all of your kilns. IT really is that much more of what we need for our work. if you would like to discuss it direct feel free to call me 206-999-2822. I would be interested in upgrading today if possible!

Nathan

On the the Sentry Xpress 4.0, you can change the hold time without restarting the controller. During a Ramp-Hold firing, press the Up Arrow repeatedly until HLdt appears. Press Start. Each time you press the Up Arrow, the hold time will increase by 5 minutes. After you've changed the hold time, press Start.

It is possible to upgrade an F-series kiln to the 12-key controller, but it would be necessary to either mount a special switch box or to have a separate control box. Please call customer service at 800-876-4328 if you are interested.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

[Doc Holliday]

Ahh, this thread blew up.. anyways I contacted parragon and they had me run a few tests.... ends up i had it on the slowest program (pgm 1) for ramp speed... I set it to the fast one and it works fine now (pgm5)... so problem was resolved thanks!

[andrew brown]

I talked to the paragon rep at the gathering... she said to call about the chip or to call ross about a chip... so ... Ive definately talked to people but I guess I need to call.. I have been too busy filling my working kiln to think about the kiln that has never worked.. Im not trying to be rude just work is the priority.. I will calll you after this post to see what can be done..
andrew

[rustyglass]

I am on my 3rd digi too on a f240. They told me its too hot in my workshop and I need to blow a fan across the controller, which is an added cost and a bandaid to a bigger design flaw related problem.
I have also had a spring pop... a relay go bad... elements droop... and have had mad cracks in the firebrick since day one. Almost everyone I know now has had the same problems but since Mr Howard said he hasnt heard of many problems with this series these all must just be isolated cases.
Customer service has been good for the most part, and everything so far has been covered under warranty except for the relay that happened two weeks ago. I think that this is alot of maintenance on a two year old kiln. Im glad to hear Im not alone, but I dont think paragon should be.

[andrew brown]

just talked to a nice woman that is taking care of the problem.... thanks

[J B]

Arnold, I didn't mean to "rant" on you personaly .

" I will get my foot out of my mouth "and say "Thank You" for taking action on these problems eveyone is having !!!

Like I said I'm moving and I got some Big ole boys to help move kilns --- so Alott of TLC will go into moving these two kilns , I still dread it though. I'll not replace the controler untill ,move is made and everything set back up ,permanetly in place.( no --moving this kiln again ) Hopefully this will not happen again ???

Is there someone in paticular that I need to contact about this ? Or just customer service ?

Thank You

[smutboy420]

So would't designing the location of the controller in the kiln to a spot that got less heat on the controller be a better fix to the problem?

[Arnold Howard]

Arnold, I didn't mean to "rant" on you personaly .

" I will get my foot out of my mouth "and say "Thank You" for taking action on these problems eveyone is having !!!

Like I said I'm moving and I got some Big ole boys to help move kilns --- so Alott of TLC will go into moving these two kilns , I still dread it though. I'll not replace the controler untill ,move is made and everything set back up ,permanetly in place.( no --moving this kiln again ) Hopefully this will not happen again ???

Is there someone in paticular that I need to contact about this ? Or just customer service ?

Thank You

I didn't take your message as a personal rant, and I understand any frustration that you might feel regarding your kiln. Thanks for your patience.

When you move kilns, place a sheet of styrofoam (about 1/16" thick) between the kiln body and the door. That is especially important if you are moving the kilns long distance. I would also place the kilns on a pallet with 1" - 2" thick layers of styrofoam both under and over the kilns. Strap the kilns to the pallet. (I like the straps that have a ratchet.)

You could talk to anyone in customer service: the 2 Lauras, Teri (manager), or Veronica.

Sincerely,

Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com

[mer]

arnold, i can't tell you how much we all appreciate you coming here to share information with us. it's so helpful for us to be able to recieve advice from those that make the tools we all use in our work. thank you for your input.