Soft Glass Vs. Borosilicate

[justabeginner]

I know many people work with both but it also seems there are quite a few that work exclusively with one or another. Anyone want to tell which they prefer and why?

[JANKYglass]

soft glass is for girls and boro is for boys:D

[menty666]

oooh, thems fightin' words :)

In my opinion it really just depends on what you want to make since both have their strong points for certain applications. Unless you have a furnace setup, boro's pretty much the go to glass for blown work. It's possible to do sculpture with it, but again there's a whole subset of pros and cons there.

Soft is generally preferred for beads and sculpture partly for cost and partly for it's increased working time. By and large soft glass is cheaper than boro, but there are some exceptions (R4, Double Helix come to mind).

In my shop I have moretti, boro, and Bullseye and Uroboros glass, all of which get used at different times depending on what I want to work on.

My advice? Find one you like and get some quality time with it, but when you need to do something different, switch to the other type for a day just to get some practice in.

Just remember, advice is free and you get what you pay for

[Ninja fire]

I use Boro for sculptures and soft for bracelets etc...

[richsantaclaus]

soft glass is for girls and boro is for boys:D


You are full of it because you can't melt soft glass!

It is beyond your experience I feel.

Drop by my house and try any time.



For me, I am on a learning curve with Boro as I have torched marbles only about 20 times now. Soft soda-lime glass is very difficult because you have to learn it's qualities and not just, "Turn up the oxy" as most Boro artists profess.

I have respect and a liking for BOTH types of glass and certainly will not try to make others that prefer one type or another to feel bad.

[JANKYglass]

i can melt soft glass,i bought a brand new pirahnna a few years back just for soft glass(after a couple classes on sculpture with marc vandenberg)because as we all know a cc is not going to work well for soft glass.but now i stick to boro and leave the soft glass to the bead ladies and the italians.

[Cosmo]

For me, the colors in soft glass just aren't appealing. I don't really care for the bright colors of soft glass. These days they are making a lot of soft glass colors that are supposed to "look like borosilicate", but they are pretty expensive and the results aren't consistent.

I also like the way borosilicate works in the flame. I like the way the clear flows quicker than color. That suits my working style. In soft glass, the opaque colors flow before the transparents.

Borosilicate is also more forgiving, which is a big plus for me.

One last thing.... maybe it's just the kid in me, but I like the big flame you use with borosilicate....

[dogmaw]

For me it is all about color palate. I do sculpture in both boro and soft. I do beads and pendants in both. It just depends on what color I want.

[Ninja fire]

I never tried sculpture with soft, I think I want to... I like the color
range of soft and I'm wondering how it will work and feel in the fire...

[susheke]

One of the appealing things about soft glass is using a smaller torch and being able to melt without O2 tanks. (concentrators instead). Many soft glass beadmakers start off on a hothead torch for $35. Pretty cheap way to decide if glass is for you. It is cheaper glass by the pound for the most part and what is pushed in most beginner classes offered to the masses.


Interesting comment on the colors Cosmo. I like soft and dreamy and many of my beads happen to be just that. All in soft glass, go figure? But I do agree the silver colors aren't easy like Boro. I suspect they will get there. Wasn't it only two years ago I was seeing the first one's appear for soft glass workers?

I like both. I can see reasons to use both in my bead work. They work differently and one can use what they prefer for specific purposes.

I don't believe one is better than the other. I find having options is what matters most to me.

[DavidR]

One of the benefits of flameworking with softglass is the ability to incorporate it with hot glass. These two techniques used in conjunction can create some beautiful pieces.

[The Lorax]

i hate soft glass.. i started in a hot shop... i will never touch the stuff again unless i am in a hotshop and someone hands me a blow pipe or something... but boro is just ideal for me.

[Racer X]

I highly recomend being versed in both. Being able to hollow form with soft tubing is an unbelievable advantage for boro workers. You learn so much so quickly once you get the hang of it.

I would say that every boro worker interested in montage work should at least take one class from Andre Gutgesel or Carl Ittig if possible. I know most people poo-poo the soda lime tubing, but once you get started it will be addictive and I assure you that you will come away with a whole new pallete of glass you will be able to work with.

In my opinion, soft glass has boro beat by a mile. I work more boro, because I really can't sculpt or have interest in it. My next body of work will be almost exclusively soft glass as soon as I get a blower for my herbie, a Thurengian burner and a few cases of Lauscha tubing and two years to just work the shit out of it.

If anyone wants to buy some coe 90 Schott, I've got 30 ml tubing that's compatable with bullseye. lol

[Ben Burton Glass]

I primarily work boro, but I will venture into soft glass every once in a while... I prefer the work that can be done in boro, but when you look at Lucio Bubacco's work it's amazing and all done in soft glasss (moretti)... So it make's you question, which medium should I choose???

Just remember the choice isn't permanent so you can always change your mind and try something else...

Aloha!

[Spider]

I'm with Mentysixes - got effetri, urobos & other system 96, bullseye & kugler, and of course, boro. Get 'em mixed up and you get some wonderfully checked cane, etc.

Howdy Ben - it's a different animal but learning to work the soda lime can be rewarding. It's all good for something.

[richsantaclaus]

i can melt soft glass,i bought a brand new pirahnna a few years back just for soft glass(after a couple classes on sculpture with marc vandenberg)because as we all know a cc is not going to work well for soft glass.but now i stick to boro and leave the soft glass to the bead ladies and the italians.


I suppose my problem with your post is the narrow mindedness of thinking soft glass is only for "bead ladies and the italians" and I hope you really don't feel that way and it a joke. If it was a joke, it was not funny.

[JANKYglass]

if its not funny your old

[Kool]

Uh-oh. I'm sensing a lump of coal in somebody's stocking this year.

[JANKYglass]

coal is just a million years from being a diamond

[nickglassdood]

maybe its wicked old coal

[bc]

boro rules. every try to make a stemless bubbler out soft glass? case closed, thread closed. next.

[Zed]

I love the way Lucio works softglass, keeping the colors he's using semi-molten in the backwash of his flame on that rack thingy. You can do alot with soft glass and sculpture. Its really nice that you can seal two pieces of softglass without having to reheat the joint.

Moretti is cheap too. Buy it in bulk and you can get deals like $5/lb on lots of colors.

I went through several pounds of moretti trying to make blown work via stick stack. While I never did manage to pull off a 100% moretti goblet, i got real close. Frustration eventully lead to me shelving the idea, but I'll go back eventually and pull it off. I did pull off several blown xmas ornaments, and made some sweet blown feet via coilpotting. FYI, moretti and most other soft glasses open up much smoother and easier then boro when making feet. The feet I made were perfect right off the bat, opened up in like 1/2 the time. I still have them and may use them as bases in the future, when I feel the call of moretti again.

Moretti requires much more finesse and skill to work then boros, and I think most lampworkers are spoiled on boros. If you think your good, try making the same thing out of soft glass.

I still REALLY want to make a reproduction of the glassblowing bench used in the 19th century by the Blashka's and others. I think it would be sweet to sit in my living room and blow some glass, no tanks, no electricity, just me and my alchohol fueled foot powered torch. Talk about low overhead! I don't think anyone here or possibly even alive today could touch the skill level of the
Blashka's and their glass flowers, and these were made on a setup like this, using soft glass.

Softglass is the sh!t, its just alot harder to use and requires alot more finesse then boros. If Laushka tubing was available for cheap and not all scratched up in the US like it is in Germany, i'd use the hell out of it.

I took Carl Ittig's softglass lampwork class at Pilchuck in '99, and there's ALOT you can do with it. i really like the effects he gets with the pottery glazes. That guy has skills, and Hans is even better. Carl and Hans made a bunch of roundels with the center starting as a lampworked cup made of softglass. They then dropped a hot gather into the cup and spun the disc out in the hotshop. Really opened my eyes tyo what was possible with softglass and lampwroking/hotshop fusion work.

Probably the biggest advantage to Moretti and one that appeals to me more and more as I get older is the impact it has on your eyes. Boro's are harsh on your eyes, and even with the best glasses, you will probably feel the effects eventually. It may take 10 or 15 years, but the radiation will probably get too you. Soft glass has much less radiation and is much easier on your eyes. Eyes are important, I'd like mine too keep working.

[richsantaclaus]

Hire a teenager while they know everything!

[richsantaclaus]

Coal - it's fun to eat!!!!!!

[Racer X]

[QUOTE][boro rules. every try to make a stemless bubbler out soft glass? case closed, thread closed. next.
/QUOTE]

Classic. Setting the bar real high for personal growth yet again. Billy Morris made some real nice lookin pipes that sold for way more than I've seen a boro one sell for...

[richsantaclaus]

I really think that one should not be so closed minded that they argue about others personal choices. This discussion will never have closure since each one of us chooses what glass they like best. My hope is that some will be more respectful of others in their posts. I also hope that people won't just settle for a certain level of ability and will choose to make themselves better = personal growth.

[mer]

try not to mistake this for an enlightened debate......

[susheke]

Mermonkey :D

[richsantaclaus]

JANKYglass and bc, let me show you two what this "old" guy can do with soft glass and I challenge you to reproduce my work in soft glass too since you two think you are so good. Go on and try...ho,ho,ho!!!

I have only attempted Boro marbles for about 20 times so I KNOW I am not good at it and maybe you two are experts, I sure hope so!

Let me see your work if you will - come on now, show us!!!!!

[richsantaclaus]

ok, here are my poor attempts at Boro during my 20 tries - I KNOW a hord of you are much better than me (like JANKYglass and bc) but I am on a learning curve.

I bow to your two expertise with humbleness because my Boro work certainly is much less a quality as your fabulous work!!!!

Let me see your marbles - ok?

[Tristan]

hey pretty sick for moretti
but imho I really dont care for softglass, I like the qualities of it, as in color palette and whatnot, but its not for me, ive tried moretti and soft from a furnace, and even though the color palette is not as vast as those, I deffinately prefer boro over anything.
Sweet marbles though

[richsantaclaus]

Thanks - I am trying to perfect several techniques that other soft glass marble makers have not tried as of yet... like putting bubbles where I want them, including copper to make scenes, stuff like that.

I respect others glass choices and LOVE to see their work. It's ALL good!!!!!

[Tristan]

totally go with it, I dont think Ive ever seen any moretti marbles like yours before, Ive seen those techniques a million times in boro, but not moretti

must mean something

[richsantaclaus]

Also, because the Moretti only comes in small diameter, my marbles are only 1 to 1/4" in diameter! Most turn out 1" in diameter. Shocking is a major problem with the soft glass not to mention burning the crap out of it if one is not careful. There is no such thing as, "Turn up the oxy" in soft glass...lol!!!

[Zed]

Use some soft wire from the hardware store to stack 4 or 5 rods together, if you need thicker stock.

[vetropod]

Heh heh heh. TWO WORDS:

SOFT GLASS



.

[vetropod]

Also, because the Moretti only comes in small diameter, my marbles are only 1 to 1/4" in diameter! Most turn out 1" in diameter. Shocking is a major problem with the soft glass not to mention burning the crap out of it if one is not careful. There is no such thing as, "Turn up the oxy" in soft glass...lol!!!

PS - Go to Frantz Art Glass (http://www.frantzartglass.com/) They are the proud owners of one of the world's WORST websites BUT they do sell Effetre fats (13-14mm rod) in a good assortment of colors. Ask me 'cuz I use a LOT of 'em :D

[richsantaclaus]

Very nice of you both - thanks for the tips!!!

[JANKYglass]

where did i ever say i was good?has anyone on this site ever heard me claim that i was good?nor do i remember commenting to the quality of anyone elses work.
is someone having a hard time with there retirement?

[richsantaclaus]

No my retirement is going just spiffy: someone - ME - is having a problem with your attitude and rude comments about people that work in soft glass. You need to apologize.

Beyond that, I'd really like to see your work. Is there a link I can click on to do that?

[Tristan]

oh! you kids

[Racer X]

I think they were both joking to tell you the truth.

And get those fats of effetre. You'll be quite happy.

[vetropod]

having a problem with your attitude and rude comments about people that work in soft glass.

Dude, it's plain and simple. People who work soft glass SUCCCCCKKKKK!

[dogmaw]

Dude, it's plain and simple. People who work soft glass SUCCCCCKKKKK!

Ah, but what do they suck?

[richsantaclaus]

gnimelf - I am guessing you suck at soft glass!

It must be too difficult for you to try even by your attitude.

But who knows but you...ho,ho,ho!!!

[mer]

no man, you have to remember that this is a very sarcastic community. these are just jokes. wes flemming is one of my favorite soft glass guys around. that bug in his avatar is soft glass. seriously, click his link.

nobody is trying to say that soft glass sucks. people just play like that around here.

[Racer X]

Wes is one of the best softglass flameworkers I know. The guy rocks and is probably the nicest guy you would ever want to meet.

[richsantaclaus]

Thanks - I guess I am too literal and don't like others bashing others because sometimes it is NOT a joke but envy! I'll not respond to this attack on soft glass artists anymore. It is too bad that the original post was just asking opinions and not starting a war like the young boro artists are doing.

[vetropod]

Awww, come on guys! I DO suck at soft glass - thanks for the props, though!

But I can tell you where to get the fat rods of it :D

[Glassroots]

I use both regularly. Mainly to create new colors and combinations. You can get some sick colors by mixing oh say a stick of amber purple and a stick of pea green. My only problem is that every piece I make cracks. I don't know, I guess I am not practicing enough.

[richsantaclaus]

Hey - I love looking at ANY glass so it really doesn't matter what you guys like in the long run. Soooo, put MORE pix up of your work so we can drool over them - ok???

On another note:

Not having a flare for the obvious, I have always been thinned skinned when it comes to joking with people I don't know. I have learned that the kinds of posts like have been made are simple joking and not to be taken seriously as I did.

I still don't like this type of joking, but I have to admit, it is a learning experience. I just wanted to try and clear the air.

The pictures of my work were posted for me to show off. It is NOT meant in any way to be a challenge to others because I have only been melting glass and making beads for 4 1/2 years and making marbles for 1 1/2 years - so I am very new at it.

Anyway, let's go back to square one -and start over, ok?

[Racer X]

Rich Santa Claus-

Look at this.

http://www.murrini.com/

My partners work. All soft glass.

http://www.glassartists.org/Gal787_Rex_Trimm_s_Gallery.asp

My work in boro. Sorry no Lauscha shit to show off (I traded away all my finished vessels before photo's could be taken)... however I'm extruding effetre tubing with a mini blow pipe and a carlisle at the moment. When I have enough of them... I'll make some encalmo stuff for fun.

It really doesn't matter what glass is best. What matters is what is best for the job at hand. If I wanted to do what I'm doing right now in boro... it would be a pain in my hand literally (the tape gets too hot)... luckily I have a lifetime worth of soft glass scraps so I can play glassblower with a gimp hand.

[richsantaclaus]

Truly beautiful!!!!! I only hope to have the talent I saw in those sites. In my caser, with Boro, there is NO problem getting big fat very nice clear rods. In soft glass, the biggest I've ever been able to find is almost 5/8" in diameter. I do like the suggestion of taping soome of the smaller rods together and melting them into one big blob and I am going to try that next torching I do. I am concerned about the thermal shocking that might result as even the 5/8" rods thermal shock easily - even when I pay attention to keeping them in the flame by flashing them.

Thank you for the link of eye candy!!!!!

[The Lorax]

my favorite soft glass artist(josh simpson):

http://my.hamilton.edu/images/general/CMoGMegaplanet.jpg

[susheke]

Whoa, that is one big marble. How on earth did he manage that?

[Racer X]

Don't discount using a big boro punty and melting in small effetre rods to make a big diameter soft glass gather. It's pretty easy and all you have to worry about is trapping air. I use about 14ml boro punty and just grab up all the scrap and add to the gather.

Also... look into getting a bunson burner to preheat those rods on a rod rack.

Lorax- Start looking at more softglass glass art. I can rattle off a ton more people with some serious shit to peep not that you're wrong for liking Josh's work because he's a really cool dude.

1) Pino Singoretto http://www.amantiglass.com/amanti_webroot/newp3.shtml

2) Lino Tagliopietra

3) Billy Morris

4) Dick Marquis

5) Kurt Wahlstabh

6) Karren Willenbrink

7) Dino Rosin

8) Vittorio Ferin

9) Davade Salvadore

10) Andre Gutgesel


I mean... I can name over 100 artists that I know make the dank. Josh Simpson makes some nice stuff... but start really looking at a bunch of stuff. You might find out that there is some crazy shit out there you never knew existed.

[richsantaclaus]

I love Josh Simpson's work!!!!! At one time, I have a youTube video of him making a HUGE marble but when my computer crashed about a month ago, I lost it.

I never thought of using a Boro punty - I must try that! Thank you!!!

[vetropod]

Whoa, that is one big marble. How on earth did he manage that?

Perhaps he uses a boro punty? :D

[susheke]

That must be some kind of punty! 100 plus pounds??? whoa baby!

[vetropod]

That must be some kind of punty! 100 plus pounds??? whoa baby!

Actually it's got a steering wheel built into it so it's easier to turn! Custom made by Spiral Arts... :chilling:

[JANKYglass]

appologize for a joke that only you dont get,i dont think so.

[Mac Maestro]

Enough of that sence of humor!

Put a stick in your ass an let's continue!!

(Lighten up Rich)

[richsantaclaus]

Whatever you want Jankyglass...lol...you are the boss!!!**wink,wink***

YOU are right Maestro... did I lighten up enough?...lol...make my own joke???

[Kalera]

Ah, but what do they suck?

Now, see (ducking), I thought the question was WHO do they suck, and how well?

[KahunaGlassArt]

which type is used for spoons, bongs, hammers, etc?

[davidwillisglass]

bullseye gives a 50% discount to flameworkers on rod orders over $500. So if you spend over $250 you get nice color for $10-15/lb. Compatible with Schott AR tubing and rod.

[Ben Burton Glass]

Check out Lucio Bubacco's work, for some sweet anatomical lampworking!!

Lucio's page (http://www.luciobubacco.com/index.asp)

All soft glass. All sick!!

aloha!

[HAGSTROM]

Simpson's work is made out of a furnace with steel blowpipes and puntys...its not lampwork....oh yeah more sarcasam

[jr23]

Glass is fucking awesome soft or hard, Torch work or furnace work and we all share a common point we love glass.

[fashon kore]

even though most of the world would probly stand by some sort of soft glass or another, i've learned to work with boro and i enjoy it more then soft glass, boro is more forgiving, the colors don't stay true but in my eyes they are also very vibrant and unique. i also think just in terms of clear glass, i don't often see a soft glass that stays as crystal clear and nice when you work it in a torch.

but thats just me.

[vetropod]

:o:

[michaelangeloglass]

i can melt soft glass,i bought a brand new pirahnna a few years back just for soft glass(after a couple classes on sculpture with marc vandenberg)because as we all know a cc is not going to work well for soft glass.but now i stick to boro and leave the soft glass to the bead ladies and the italians.

Thank you for leaving the soft glass for the italians;o)

[chayes]

I like both each has its pros and cons. I like boro colors but i also like soft glass colors. I like how boro moves for some things i like soft glass for other. I've found working with more than one coe helped change the way i look at glass as a whole.

Glass is Glass. Boro to beer bottle. They all melt.

[VinE]

^word.

[Ro's Glass World]

i use whatever is needed for the project, sometimes if i need a certain color i use soft glass for its better selection of color. for beads soft glass. for large sculpture that will be reworked: boro. for pendants and rings or things that will get wear and tear i try to use boro.
ro

[bossrigger.mm]

i can melt soft glass,i bought a brand new pirahnna a few years back just for soft glass(after a couple classes on sculpture with marc vandenberg)because as we all know a cc is not going to work well for soft glass.but now i stick to boro and leave the soft glass to the bead ladies and the italians.Perhaps its just a lack of understanding on your part but seems unusual to have to break it down on terms of boys and girls, maybe you need a couple trips to the hot shop if you think its about Jewelry.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Misfitman]

ive only really worked boro, other than to try a fun little party trick.. Use only soft glass for this!!! heat up a gather, Stick it on your marver, lick your finger, quickly push down on glowing gather with licked finger. whala, coolest shit ever