Tube pulls?

[Adapt]

Hi, I'm pretty confused on what the steps are for doing a tube pull. I have a bunch of seconds coming my way and was thinking I could mess around with a few small practice tube pulls. I guess I'll lay out what I think is a tube pull, then you guys can tell me where I'm going wrong. (I know you guys do these on big tube, but I'm working on a nortel major with natural gas:bummed:, so excuse the small tubing sizes)

1. Start with a 4 inch point of 32 x 4mm tube.
2. Encase that with the desired colors.
3. Encase that with clear (not sure if this is necessary...)
4. Get everything really hot, gather, puff a little, get a thick football.
5. Attach punty.
6. Get everything super hot.
7. Pull.
8. (Here's an especially confusing part for me) Do I pop a hole in the other end and let it cool, or do I pop a hole in the other end and put it in the kiln?
Then, when I go to use it the next day, do I have to preheat it in the kiln? or can I just work it like clear?

Any help is really appreciated.

Andrew

[mer]

enter stick stack into the search engine, there are some good threads and that method has way cleaner results.

[Cosmo]

The steps you mentioned are pretty much the way I do it. You can do the "stick stack" method too, which works. I've just been doing it this way for so long I'm in the habit of doing it. Both ways work fine.

When I do it, after I pull it down, I heat a spot and "pinch" it with diamond shears. Not closed, just make a crease in it. Wiggle it back and forth as it cools and it will snap where you pinched it.

I have seen some people just pick up a cold piece of tube pull and work it, but I generally have better luck heating it up in the kiln first.

[Dom]

I would suggest stick stacking. The color rods are much more even resulting in a more even tube, plus you dont have to clear coat it.

[teaspoon420]

When I was learning these I practiced the tube pulls on 25.4 Heavy, less detail in the lines, but takes less time and it's easier the keep it all hot. Good for practice but bad for prodo cause I only got about two pieces out of a pull. Also, I do encase the outside with clear, for that nice glossy look. I lay outer layer of clear on without getting it too hot so that you have nice smooth air bubbles running from end to end of the pull, then meltdown and chase the air out from the center out to the sides or from one end to the other. Color density is also very important to consider too...... cobalt and acid yellow (just an example) are pretty different and tough to manipulate the final product. Start of with colors that are similar in working temps just so you have less on your mind while practicing.

Good luck

[Adapt]

Thanks guys. I would like to do sitck-stacks, but I don't know if the nortel on natural gas can handle it, but hey, why not try. I guess my biggest questions lie in the after part. The "should I preheat" part. I ask this because right now I can't picture having about a foot of tube the kiln and then taking it out and making sections out of it. What I'm thinking now is that I have the tube in the kiln, it has a hole in the far end. I take it out of the kiln, attach a blowtube to the hole, cut a section off, set the section aside, pop new hole in tube and put it back in the kiln. I think that sounds right, I guess I was hoping to be able to pull point.

thanks again for the responses

[teaspoon420]

you can pull a one-handled point and set it in the kiln, and just punty up your color with clear and stick it in the kiln too.

[petto]

You should work it form the kiln (the finished tube). Like cosmo said why risk it. As far as stik stak goes those are great but if you are getting 2nds like you said they are not usually ideal for this method. Generally speaking all the rods should be the same diameter for the bulk of the stak. When you have alot of 2nds the tube encasement seems to work better. (for me anyway) Using blowtube instead of point is better because you are not wasting any of that nice color tube you just made by pulling preps. (the handle of the points would just end up in the trash and you just lost all that color)

[Dom]

You DEFENITELY want to preheat it in the kiln.

My first tube pull, I actually pulled a nice tube, left it to sit for a few min and though it was still warm enough. Needless to a whole section of about 12 inches of tube shattered on me.

If you wanna do a stick stack I suggest gettin some like 32mm standard. Should be easy enough to work with.

The way I do stick stack, is to start with the tubing size, for example I start with 50x5mm. You take the 50mm outer dimension and subtract the wall thickness, so 50-5-5=40mm inside the tube, so now take 25mm tube for example and stack 7 mm rods all around, that makes it 39mm thick. Now you have a perfect sleeve with the 50mm.

Same formula with any size tubing.

[e-jipt]

boro bars work great for stick stacks

[Adapt]

Cool! I think that settles it! Now I just have to wait for my package to arrive.

Thanks

[massvegas]

U CAN ALWAYS do inside-out,
put way more stringers in their , and make them reall close together.

i flare out a peice of 9.5 attatch about 7 sticks of 2 to3 inch color,
one buy one,
then sleeve with 31. heavy about 3 1\2 inches
i can do about 4 or 5 an hour,

put it in the kiln or rip it in half , and work the 2 halves so u can put the whole thing in their .

u dont need a clear base underneath, it add mass but thins out the color ,
if u do use standard wall,

[Glacier_Arts_Studio]

boro bars work great for stick stacks

really, i have had a few questions about boro bars...

i think i'll start that thread in color talk, as not high jack this thread...

see you there e-jipt...

[menty666]

Not to thread jack, but what's the difference working a Nortel major on natural gas vs. propane? I've got a red max and I can work 25.4 easily enough, and I was playing with 40mm one day, albeit slowly. I've got a propane, tanked oxy setup.

[Chris Carlson]

what works best for me...

6" 38x4 blank with 12x2 handle
stripe about 5" of color, usually 18-20 lines
marver down smooth to 40mm
sleeve with 50x5.
rage it and pull diamond shear thick ends off and put in kiln with handles attached(one will be hollow, one solid)
leave middle(usually 1-3 feet depending on diameter and thickness) on station.

thanks to Arturo Ulloa for originally showing me this combination.
there are four people in my shop and we all pull tubes different...
to each his own.

[Adapt]

menty - Propane burns hotter than natural gas and I assume that most people on here work with propane, the natural gas just limits the heat I can get to. I start to run into trouble when I encase my 32 heavy wall. Unfortunately, I can't change the torch or the fuel. :(

Thanks massvegas and chris, more things to try.


andrew

[beachglass]

I've got a red max and I can work 25.4 easily enough, and I was playing with 40mm one day, albeit slowly.

im surprised you'd say that cause i have a red max as well and it rips through 40 mil surprisingly easily. i watched mr norton at nortel play with a one once and i couldnt believe how huge the flame can really get if you max it out... way bigger than ive ever needed

the only tube pulls i tried were big stripes on a piece of 31 then sleeved in 44, they came out pretty crappy lol...i was trying to heat the whole length to pull it down, wouldnt gathering into a football shape distort the lines?

[Adapt]

Dunno about the gathering to football shape, guess I'll find out.

About the torch, I guess I should clear up that statement. I use a basic nortel major, not the redmax. Also, I use like 1-2 psi of natural gas, which I hear from the more experienced guys in the studio is weak compared to the higher psi propane set-ups.

andrew

[menty666]

It's entirely possible I did fine with the 40 and simply have a bit of a foggy memory. I've been pretty stressed lately.