Thread for Will

[Mac Maestro]

...I just know you guys are getting hype on the 55 coe or the 80 coe boro that is available. Putting some pressure on GA and NS to batch some cobalt or something...

...

There is 55coe and 80'ish coe boro available from Kimble. I have some of the 55 in standard tubing. It does lean a bit more toward soft with working time. It is still not "loose" enough for me. I want to get my hands on the 80 coe. Think about the possiblities. Lower working temp, less energy and more workablilties of the metals and oxides. Cadmium might not boil as readily in an 80 coe. The color palette would grow if the working temp was lowered 200 degrees. I am half talking out my ass because I'm no chemist and would love to here what Abe, Henry or some other experience folks had to say about this...

Discuss.

[Blacksheep]

would the end products still be as tough or durable AS boro
not too many soft glass pipes out there?

[JANKYglass]

soft boro is for transgenders

[Steve Sizelove]

Victor Chiariza uses the 55 coe boro on his botanical vine things that "grow" around his soft glass vessels. When I saw him demo, he mentioned that the biggest reason is because of the availability of compatible enamels. He did work the glass more gently than 33 coe.

For whatever this is worth.......

Time for coffee.......

[ech]

I've heard this discussed at length by some fairly knowledgable people and I've talked about it with Will breifly when I was at his place last year. My take on the whole issue after those converstations is that GA or NS ever making the product for distribution is highly unlikely. It sounds cool though. I've melted Pyrex dishes before and I believe that is 55COE. It felt strange to try and work it.

[LaPlayaGlass]

I wonder how that stuff reacts to a premix flame.
AL

[themoch]

soft boro is for transgenders


HAHAHAHAHAHA

really i did laugh out loud for that one.

[Racer X]

It really seems like a big commitment of time and resources to create a new glass.

Alot less energy would be needed to just work soft glass if you want a more flowing glass. I highly doubt that a "hybrid" boro is going to be as user friendly as people are expecting or dreaming it to be. There might be potential in the idea, but in reality I believe that the key is in understanding the glass that is already out there and available.

I hear how people dream of having a hotshop/flameshop that is totaly compatable. It exists already.

[boxfan willy]

That quote was from the recent "soft boro" thread that turned into fight club or some shit. This was my attempt to get the duscussion back on point.

Rex,

I respect your viewpoint and part of me agrees. but then the other part of me says I need to see it not work. Isn't the fact that someone strove for more suitable flameworking glass that we have boro.
I would love a boro that sculpted more fluidly. Maybe it has architectural applications with designers due to the boro inherant properties.

For discussion sake:

I am most excited about lowering the working temperature so that the color palette could be potentially expanded. Cadmium powders unencased with no boil would be sweeeet. I am not necessarily supporting that boro is a hot shop glass or should be or shouldn't be.

I want to hear if a higher COE could do things for me that 33 can not. Could their be a larger color palette. With lower working temperatures, would that equate less energy used to produce the same thing?

The world ain't flat and we aren't the center of the universe, either.

boxfan

[Mac Maestro]

I believe with different COE's and different glasses, there become new applications, new techniques, new tools, new products.... I'm sure there were those who claimed boro would never make it as anything but lab/cookware and that soft glass was the only art glass ever needed. Then no one would ever have seen synthetic opals encased in glass. (just an example. Forgive me if you can encase opals in soft glass. I may be stupid)

I'd like to try some. If only to channel a little money and interest towards Kimble and the R&D it takes to bring out a new glass. Diversify the field. Unless you're scared. jk

[Jamn!]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

really i did laugh out loud for that one.

Wouldn't it be "not" boro :bouncy::o:

[boxfan willy]

It would be and is boro. It is chemically and shock resistant. I saw no difference in the 55 coe that i have and 33 as far as shock resistance. Maybe an acid bath comparison would test the chemical resistance. I think the three main improvements possible are longer working time, lower working temperature and way bigger color palette.
That is plenty for me.
If anyone wants to play, send me a pm or an e-mail and I will send you some 55 coe from kimble. I have a couple of cases here in the shop of 25 standard.

PS thanks Maestro from salvaging this thread.

boxfan

[NUBBLET]

I heard at one point Victor Trabucco was coming out with "soft" boro. I think it has 33 coe , just melts lower and smoother ,I believe because of the flux used or other chems.

I could see a huge advantage in the fact you could probably get boro into furnace work a little easier . I also wonder about the colors that you could produce , and the cad ? is interesting , would it keep from boiling or cause it easier I wonder . Is there cad colors in soft , I work little soft but it would seem if they are not available they may not work (probably would) with the "soft" boro ?

[VinE]

It would be and is boro. It is chemically and shock resistant. I saw no difference in the 55 coe that i have and 33 as far as shock resistance. Maybe an acid bath comparison would test the chemical resistance. I think the three main improvements possible are longer working time, lower working temperature and way bigger color palette.
That is plenty for me.
If anyone wants to play, send me a pm or an e-mail and I will send you some 55 coe from kimble. I have a couple of cases here in the shop of 25 standard.

PS thanks Maestro from salvaging this thread.

boxfan

cool. someone should try mixing some color up by hand.

[susheke]

I see a big advantage for some of us bead makers. I love the idea of such a sturdy glass but for bigger beads. Yeah, I know you just get a bigger torch. But I don't want to do the oxygen tank thing. I would have to get a new studio in a new location. Manipulating the shape with a little more fluidity would be nice for those of us limited to smaller torches. Plus I love new glass :D

[Abe Fleishman]

So here is a question for all you people that are interested in the higher coe Borosilicate color rods. If we made some glass would you guys commit to over 100 lbs of color at $45 per pound. If so we could maybe make some for all of us to play with. I have at least 10,000 lbs of clear cullet of a 51 coe from schott and would love to get it made into color rods if the market would even buy it.
Abe

[susheke]

Depends on the colors. If you make girly bead colors like transparants, silver whispy reactives and sparkly colors, yes. If it is black, cobalt, yellow, orange, red and green crayons, no.

[Greymatter Glass]

ditto on what susheke said.

If it's something I'd have to use with itself, I'd prefer a good deep silver based color. Something that when it strikes will have a real depth to it.

I'd prefer to stay away from the sparkles at first - they're tricky enough in 33.

-Doug

[susheke]

I think you could get a good chunk of soft glass beadmakers willing to try it. So many want to get into boro, but don't have the set up. When you have to purchase an expensive torch to try something it doesn't happen easily.

[Conchis]

I'd bet you could find enough takers to fill that order Abe. I'd take some. Maybe you could take pre-orders for a sample pack of X lbs of Y colors.

[Abe Fleishman]

This might go somewere I will try to organize it after the New Year. We could make any of our standard colors in the 55 coe no problem. I haver done lots of tests with this glass and know alot about how to convert the formulas based on oxidation and reduction stats that this kind of glass has.

Were are you guys going to buy rods from. I don't think they make rods of this higher coe borosilicate. I think the only sell small size tubing 32 mil and under. This glass was designed for the pharma industry and cosmetic industry. This is what I have heard but am not sure if I an right.
Abe

[PyroChixRock]

We'll try them out :D

[boxfan willy]

I'm down for 2 elbows Abe.

All I've seen in 55 is standard, but it started as sand at some point. Might have to catch them when they batch to ge some cullet.

Strikers, for sure.

boxfan

[Conchis]

Strikers for sure.

[Micah Evans]

i'm totally in! sounds like fun and the fact enamels could be used is really interesting.

[themoch]

enamel graal?

[susheke]

Oh man, new glass is the best. I'm getting excited :D

[Racer X]

I would be really interested in seeing what the posibilities are with this stuff.

[Abe Fleishman]

Yo will I got the cullet on lock down. You know this man
Abe

[The Glass Fish]

Strikers, yeah, but crayons (including purple) that dont burn out and boil? That would be the shit! Less heat to melt and longer working time between heatings means a better glass for sculpture. I am in.

[mer]

i'm down for a pound. don't really care too much about the color at first, i just want to feel it melt.

[glossolalia]

Put me down for an lb. im always down to try new stuff...especially glass:cowboy:

[Greymatter Glass]

I'm in for 4-5 lbs if I can get 4-5 colors.

[Mac Maestro]

I think I already mentioned, but.... I aint scurred.
Put me down for two L-bo's. Where can I get the tube?

New year, new glass.
Are we anywhere close, Abe?

[mer]

willy mentioned earlier that he had a little 25mm standard for sale.

[Mac Maestro]

Hook it up Will! WTF am I going to do with 25 standard?? haha.

[Riley]

im glad this thread got saved. will, thanks for redirecting such a lost thread(previous one) it was all hate and no direction. i too am interested in softer boro and all the possible colors and variable working times it may offer.its understandable that this project will take time and funding. even if it doesn't get done now im glad we are expressing how we feel. i personally think that it would open up many doors. p.s. will, hope to see you and the flow crew, in tucson 2008.

[Mac Maestro]

Will-

55 coe that i have

Abe-

I have at least 10,000 lbs of clear cullet of a 51 coe from schott

There is a discrepancy here. If Abe makes 51 color, we need some 51 tube.
It would be nice to try rod and tubing, color and clear....

I'm going to be a pain in the ass here real quick. Does anyone know for sure the COE of the glass already being used in industry? Someone said the Pyrex used in cake pans and measuring cups is 55? That info is crucial. If it is 55 is being mass produced, that would take down the cost of r&d, and make it so we could tap into supplies with greater ease and less reinventing the wheel. Plus I think it would be rad to sculpt a creature on a cake pan I got at a garage sale...

[boxfan willy]

Maestro,

Wil has 55, but its not for sale. It was gifted to me by the late, very great Charles Byles of Northstar. I am glad to redistribute it at no cost. I just want to us to walk down this road fpr a bit and see where it leads. I might get peeps to send me a small piece for shipping and handling. Its all goodz.

Peace,

Wil

[NUBBLET]

Its all goodz.

Peace,

Wil

Wil , where are you located ? I started in AZ and there was a little shop called Its All Goodz , just curious if you had any aff with them .

[J McGhee]

ive played withthe schott 51 we mixed it with uranuim and silver shavings not sure who has it maybe jesse demoss, but it is a chilluim, hasslenuts did alot of the work. pretty cool stuff.

[Mac Maestro]

bump for the new year...

[Kevin Bumble]

I have it and i too am interested in this stuff. I worked some of it too, I believe it is also clearer than boro. i have a small bit in my shop and have peen showing it to peeps definitely More working time

[newmexicomagma]

im in for this both the tube and the color. id like to see where this goes.

[samyamini]

count me in. color, clear, whatever.

[jeffbuchs]

"I'm going to be a pain in the ass here real quick. Does anyone know for sure the COE of the glass already being used in industry? Someone said the Pyrex used in cake pans and measuring cups is 55? That info is crucial. If it is 55 is being mass produced, that would take down the cost of r&d, and make it so we could tap into supplies with greater ease and less reinventing the wheel. Plus I think it would be rad to sculpt a creature on a cake pan I got at a garage sale..."


dunno about the cake pans for sure. But Kimble used to make a 55 COE tubing called N-51A. I've seen it in @ 50mm standard. Cool stuff. *should* still be available.

[Abe Fleishman]

The 51-55 coe borosilicate glass is readly avalible from Schott and Kimble, but there is no rod avalible.
Abe

[shawnette]

Whatever happened with this?

[PyroChixRock]

GA was making soft boro at one point. I am not sure if they are now. It was cool to mess around with for sure. Just like any COE, there are advantages and disadvantages to it, but I didn't play with enough to give a good review.

I think they had 3 colors and a clear, if I recall correctly. It was at AGI 13.