Can it be self taught?

[Big Jay]

I have always been fascinated by glass blowers since seeing them as a kid in Mexico and the desktop torch guys at the theme parks. I just ordered the start of the equipment I'll need , but having tried to self teach myself other hobbies I want to make sure that the 700 or 800 dollars I am dropping on equipment won't just find me frustrated and sticking the stuff in a box. I have a lot of time watching glory hole blowers and have watched a ton of videos on desktop blowing but I just want to make sure its not a case of it looking way easier then it is.
My main interest are glass jewelry, beads, marbles and pipework. I did some searching and some people have suggested the national 8m isn't a great torch but I have called around to a few retailers and that has been the suggest sub 300 dollar beginner torch from almost all of them. Priced with 2 tips its only $209.00(I have to keep the torch budget under 250). I ordered my ox tank, hoses, and gauages already. I have the propane tank and am currently trying to buy an assortment of graphite tools. All I really need now is the torch, glass and to finish my work surface. Please tell me should i just cut my losses now or do I have a shot of learning through vids, books and trial and error?

[vetropod]

A lot of lampworkers are self-taught. Just be sure to search this forum for threads about adequate ventilation, or you'll wind up in the population of those who tried and died.

[Big Jay]

Believe me I am sweating the fumes issue. I am a bad asthmatic as it is. I have a 40 x 40 shop thats 15' high ceilings with 2 12' x 16' garage door openings and 8 windows. I shouldn't have too much of an issue. I have heard stories of blowers in Mexico inhaling off the long pipes out of the furnaces and burning up their lungs I can be a bit accident prone at times so I definetly am going in nervous.

[PyroChixRock]

there are a lot of risks, but if you ask and read and use some common sense, you should be ok. :)

and yes, glass can be self taught, but eventually you'll want to learn something from someone. welcome to the gldg, it's a good place to start.

[mer]

you'll be fine. check some threads on ventilatoin, get bandhu dunham's book "essential lampworking" and chime in when you have questions. you seems like a cautious enough guy. get used to the little cuts and burns and you're in.

[PyroChixRock]

speaking of getting into glass...does it seem like there are less newbies around lately? a sign of the failing economy?

[Wierdeer]

na, new peeps are just still in shock from the cold. we will get over it jk I don't know where everybody went but it has been pretty quiet around here lately


wasup misha what you and matt been doin latley brrr.

[PyroChixRock]

we've been in cali for the last 6 weeks, being booooooooored.

[mer]

i want to be bored for a little bit. sounds nice.

[vetropod]

Sounds boring to me...

[PyroChixRock]

it was a little nice really, not having to worry about 1006 things a day. but yeah, it was boring. :)

[vetropod]

I'll get about a week of that later this month. REALLY looking forward to it...

[PyroChixRock]

we should all get some time off for the holiday. :D

So wes, i heard your bugs were INSANE in person. :D

[earlbacher]

us newbies are around, lurking mostly... i'll ask questions when i cant find the answer with a search...

[PyroChixRock]

ok. or, just say hi once in awhile. that's fun, too. ;)

welcome. :)

[vetropod]

So wes, i heard your bugs were INSANE in person. :D

They're just insane in general, but only because they take after their master. :evilLaugh

I'm about to post a bunch of pics... Almost finished cleaning them up - someday it'd be nice to have a photographer. Or a real camera and a real photo setup... We can all dream, right?

[menty666]

jpatter, you're dooooooooomed, dooooooomed I tell you!!! bwahahahaha

nah, self taught's cool, just make sure you add some burn cream to your equipment list :)

Lewis Wilson has a video set over on smartflix called "Sculptural Glassworking" where he says 'national 3a blowpipe' so many times in the first video you can make a drinking game out of it, so don't knock the Nationals. Lewis is one of the granddaddies of the business and granted he's moved up since then, but it's possible. Many of the beading videos on there use minor torches too. If you're going to work boro avoid the hothead, that's pretty much soft glass only.

Here's a link to smartflix (https://smartflix.com/?ct=af206189) if you're interested. It's my affiliate link though, but I'd send them a little love even if they weren't giving out kickbacks.

Oh yeah, and get Bandhu's book too. Good reference.

[Conchis]

well you actually asked two questions..... 1) Can you teach yourself? yes. 2) are they just making it "look way easier than it is." YES!!!! You can teach yourself, but you're going to have a tremendous amount of patience with your self and even more tenacity. Not getting it right makes some folks frustrated and makes others try even harder. Bandhu's book is a great resource and has so many of the really basic things that you'll just need to know laid out in a readable way. I am still a newbie, so I'm just telling you from my own limited experience, but this place is also an incredible resource and the folks here are amazingly helpful, knowlgeable and talented and can answer about anything you need to know. Good luck.

[Turning Point Glass]

You didn't mention it in your original post, so if you don't have them already, be sure to buy some flashback arrestors - esp. using a premix torch. Blowing yourself up will definitely ruin your day.

[Big Jay]

I ordered a victor welding/cutting torch set that is suppose to have the arrestors and the gauages. (it was only 250 bucks with the shipping and 3 tips brand new) I figured the gauges alone were gonna run me 170 bucks. If for some reason it doesn't have the arrestors I'll definetly buy them along with some spray bottles for soap/water. I remember going to borrow a set of cutting torches once and when I turned it on more gas was coming from the gauage diaphram then from the torch tip had I tried to fire it up I wouldn't be hear writing this post.
And thanks everyone for the reassurance I can go it alone. I am just wanting to do this as a hobby not as a business. It'd be nice to sell a few things to pay for the equipment but thats definetly not my goal.
I did forget one question though. For just starting out what kind of glass should I order? Should i just get clear rod and tubes for the time being? I was gonna order the torch today along with some glass but if I won't need the color for a few months I'd rather not shell out the money for it right now.

[Mike_Aurelius]

Nationals are a good beginners torch, but be prepared to blow through a lot of oxygen -- they are oxy hogs for sure.

When you get time experience under your belt and some money saved, that's the time to start looking at a better torch. Keep your eyes open for e-bay auctions, check Craigslist from time to time, as well as newspaper classified ads -- and this board too -- people do upgrade from time to time and will offer their previous torch for sale, but you have to move fast. It is a sellers market for used torches, and they keep a fairly high resale price unless they have been beaten to shit.

[superstupid]

im currently teaching myself, and its working out ok. the problem is it takes so much longer to learn anything beacause you figure things out through trial and error, instaed of having someone show you and correct your mistakes. i cant speak for everyone else but to me it definitely looks easier to do than it is because youre only watching it, you cant feel the glass moving. the first time you heat up a rod or tube youll realize that its not as easy as people make it look.

and to agree with mike, nationals do suck down a ton of oxy. i had the 6 model
and would run through a k tank in 10 hrs easy, so id assume the 8m would use more than that. if i could give a newcomer(especially if planning to self teach) such as myself, one piece of advise before they start buying equipment it would be to check their local oxy prices. if you live where oxygen is priced higher you may want to consider starting on a small torch that can be run on concentrators. yes thats more money to spend starting out but, oxygen bills will add up real quick. if a k tank in your area costs 45 bucks(thats high but in some areas they do cost that much), lets say yo get 8 hrs on your 8m, thats slightly over 5 dollars an hour to run your torch, and thats just for oxygen. if you spent 1500 0r so on a concentrator in 300 hrs it would have paid for itself, and if your teaching yourself, unless youre just a natural, when that 300th hr comes along youll realize that youre still not that good and will be glad you can play as long as you want with only a slight bump in the electric bill. really, if youre teaching yourself you need to be able to spend alot time on the torch to get good, and it costs alot of money either way, if not now then later. btw, this all came crashing down on me my first few weeks on the torch. i had no idea it would cost that much to run it. i ended up wasting money on a national and tips, tank lease, regulator, and all that just to find out that (a: its not as easy as it looks, and it takes quite a bit of torch time to learn, and (b: it costs alot more money to run a torch than i would have imagined, so i i took the plunge and paid for the concentrator and a smaller but better torch ,and it was the smartest move i could have made given my situation. im teaching myself too so unlimited hours on the torch really comes in handy for the whole trial and error thing. anyway, i just wanted to say that because i think alot of people might not realize how much it costs to stay running and if the knew before hand they could make better decisions for their initial investment.

[susheke]

PM me your address and I'll send you a box of colored shorts (rods that are not full length) to play with. Color can be expensive, especially when you don't know what you like.

Come here and ask all the stupid questions you can think of. I learned mostly by forums, it can be done.

[menty666]

I dunno, I have a bench mounted National 6b that since I'm using at lower pressures for soft glass I seem to get a lot more time from my K tank with.

[Togra]

I have just set up my shop as well. I have been getting Chinese glass from winship its probably the cheapest tubing you can find. To just have some stuff to screw up might as well use it.

winship (http://www.winshipdesigns.com/home2/ws3/smartlist_36/chinese_clear_tubing.html)

[Big Jay]

. if a k tank in your area costs 45 bucks(thats high but in some areas they do cost that much), .


Ok forgive my stupidity but is a K tank the largest(130 lb or something like that)? Someone is giving me 2 of those tanks today and the refill is less then 20 bucks (I know its $13.00 on a 80 lb). Since I am not having to pay the tank rental or buy the tanks I can afford to give them a whirl(plus I need them for using the cutting torch). If I see it getting crazy I'll definetly look into an O2 generator, but I see most people are running two , ouch.

[superstupid]

a 6b for soft glass? wow, you must be a daredevil or something. j/k

i avereged my consumption on my 6b for the whole like 4 or 5 tanks i actually had filled and came up with a little over 22 cu ft per hour. iguess i was running it pretty hard but thats how much i used.

[superstupid]

yeah i think thats about the weight of a k tank, its about 250 cu ft of oxy. thats not the biggest though the t tank is bigger and holds 330 cu ft of air. but hey if your getting them that cheap by all means go for it, i was just explaining my problems, because alot of people might not realize what their dealing with.

[dislexei]

Does one ever really learn on their own?

With the amount of resources at hand, is one really ever actually learning through their own trials? Yes they do, but then again when you look in a book for a tip, or pop on the boards to ask a question or search an answer. Is anyone really ever that far out of the loop? This is almost like a foster home for young orphaned glass workers.

[superstupid]

[QUOTE=dislexei;265697]Does one ever really learn on their own?

well we can rename his thread - can it be learned without a class?

[Big Jay]

thats what i meant without a class. There are not a lot of resources locally. I had the same problem when I started Airbrushing. For the kind of work I was doing I would have had to book a plane, stay in a hotel making a $400- $1,000 class more then double in price. Therefor I was forced to learn from research and videos. Probably took a lot longer but I learned alot from doing things the wrong way and even though I don't have a lot of spare time I have more of that then I do money right now :twitch:

[Master Yoda]

I taught myself with nothing but humbolt county films, it can be done with alot of patience

[Big Jay]

welp everyone thanks again for the reassurance. All my gear is on its way :evilLaugh as long as it doesn't get backed up in the holiday shipping madness I should be burning myself eeerrm i mean melting glass by the end of next week.
I definetly have a new found respect for the cost of blown glass. :tongue2:

[Big Jay]

PM me your address and I'll send you a box of colored shorts (rods that are not full length) to play with. Color can be expensive, especially when you don't know what you like.

.

You definetly sent me a nice assortment of colors! Thank you!!

[Tommyboi]

Yo. Anything can be self taught. i think thats the only way you can truly learn the craft. you will develope your own techniques and get the feel for glass in a much more natural way. im not sure if that made sense. but if you have any interest in the beginning, you will be hooked from the first time you melt that glass... i know i was.

[newmexicomagma]

where are you located. i doub anywhere near albuquerque? anyways if so or u are out this way im always willing to show people what i know. i started out with a basic pipemaking class and from then on id like to call it persistence. dont let the frustration get the best of you. my old roommate just quit blowing glass after investing good time into it. u need to patient and understanding and you will be able to get through the rough times. just give it as much as u can it def pays u back.

[dislexei]

thats what i meant without a class. There are not a lot of resources locally. I had the same problem when I started Airbrushing. For the kind of work I was doing I would have had to book a plane, stay in a hotel making a $400- $1,000 class more then double in price. Therefor I was forced to learn from research and videos. Probably took a lot longer but I learned alot from doing things the wrong way and even though I don't have a lot of spare time I have more of that then I do money right now :twitch:



When I took my first class I was 3,000+ miles away from home in Eugene camping out behind a restroom by the river in the park. I had a tarp and a camp all set up. Was 10 blocks or so from the school. Didn't cost me anything for housing. Then at school I met some cool volunteers that also worked for JB. They took me out for beer and food after school. They then brought me to the house where five of them all lived. Let me stay with them and took me to class in the morning.

lol that was a while ago now.....

[michaelangeloglass]

but its more fun to work with other people...:D

[harpentuan]

i wAs delivery pizza in a college football town while I slowly bought most of my equipment. the first thing i boaght were aura-slplint lens #5. And i eventually got everything.... i was delivering pizza thursday friday saturday, 3 days, from 5pm -7am the next day straight. delivering taught me that it is not what i wanna do ever again.

[yinzer]

delivering taught me that it is not what i wanna do ever again.

yeah, me too. except im still doing it