frozen propane reg???

[VinE]

So I go and get a 5gal tank filled. After I get it back to the shop it starts leaking out the backside like it was over filled. I figure its the gas expanding cause it was real cold where it was filled, so I got a screwdriver and vented a little off...
...no more leak. Went to work.
Today I started doing some prep, and all the sudden the propane cuts off. I took a look at the reg and its frozen!!! The tank is full, but the regs arent putting out any gas.

Anyone have a clue wtf is happening?

[Big Jay]

bad diaphram or contaminent in the diaphram?? just guessing.

[CitizenNot]

i had the same thing happen, it was the tank not the reg.

[Greymatter Glass]

first: Don't use a 5gal tank. they're too small for the flow required of most large torches, and will siphon up liquid propane into the lines, and freeze everything up. Especially if it's cold where you're at. which it is. right?

For the moment get the tank purged. Most likely you've got water or sludge in the tank that's freezing up more than the propane. LP doesn't freeze at normal working temps. The rapid expansion of liquid to gas can cause freezing of parts - but the liquid propane takes much more to freeze it solid. Maybe packing the tank in dry ice would do it....

to purge the tank open the fill valve (the little tiny brass screw below the main valve) and open the main tank valve and let it vent, then turn it upside down and stand it on it's ring. if a lot of water or ass smelly sludge sprays out then you know that's what it was. Once the crap is out turn it off, and if you still have some propane go ahead and use it.

the guys who fill the tanks will also purge your tanks, and they do it quick and save gas and it's easier and you don't flood your yard with stinky goo.

-Doug

[Dale M.]

How can "stuff" be siphoned off bottom of tank when vapor (gaseous propane) is drawn off top of tank.... Most 5 gallon tanks DO NOT have dip tube going to bottom of tank. Only tanks that can draw off liquid are tanks used on fork lifts that are design to draw liquid fuel and they have different tank connector than the CGA-510 most tanks have...

Also if tank has OPD valve you can only put 4.7 gallons of propane in tank... UNLESS OPD valve is defective. The OPD valve that is Federal requirement to be on tank or it can not be filled is there to prevent the "overfill" situation you describe.

Here is some interesting reading....

http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1
http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html
http://ops.dot.gov/regs/small_lp/Chapter3.htm
http://www.gasco.net/Files/safety.html
http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=58
http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=530


Dale

[Emmett's Glass]

I had my heater tank freeze before, I raised it with a piece of wood on a milk crate and it hasn't happened since.
E

[Greymatter Glass]

Ok, siphon is the wrong word.

Suck is better... still not exact.

SLURP!

What I've been told is the problem is that when a tank is nearly full you can draw off the gas faster than it can regenerate it, and the liquid will start to boil so vigorously that some of the liquid will get into the gas lines. When that happens it will expand in the tank valve, regulator, and hoses and cause problems.

if there's water in the tank it can cause double trouble.

The solution for me was to get a bigger tank, and I never had the problem again.

I suppose isolating it from a cold concrete shop floor would also help quite a bit.

The grill guy at home Depot also told me warm water (not hot) would help build pressure, but never went that far.

Also, it's not hard to get non-OPD tanks refilled if you know where to go, so never assume best case scenario :P If it's old enough to have water/sludge in it it could very well be a non-OPD tank.

[fumalicious]

warm water (not hot) would help build pressureyeah that works... done it lots of times. Didn't know about the "not hot" part- we used hot water..... worked fine. He's probably just suggesting that so you don't over do it and cause it to vent, but when your tank is down to 0 psi, you have a lot of head room until you vent. We never had a problem.

[Mike_Aurelius]

And if you do have a frozen regulator, it is best to take it to the welding shop to get it rebuilt. Getting gunk or water inside the reg isn't good and you will continue to have problems with the reg until it is repaired. Rebuilding regs is not a do it yourself job, have it professionally done!

[brettodie]

A LIGHT BULB RIGHT BY THE TANK WILL WARM IT ENOUGH TO BUILD PRESSURE. damn caps key. raising it offa the floor helps alot also like emmit said. also my reg used to have some moisture in it and would freeze up once again a light bulb will do the trick. your not allowed to rebuild your own regs anymore generally, places wont sell you the kits you need to do it. its not a very hard job really but the liability for the companys became to high. go figure... peace brett

[Mike_Aurelius]

I use an electric blanket wrapped loosely around the tank. I turn mine on about an hour before I start working and the ones that they sell now have a built in timer that turns them off after about 7-8 hours automatically. I've been using the electric blanket method now for about 4 years - and use it when the temp outside is zero or below.

I hope you aren't keeping your tank inside!!! ;)

[Frankie Hess]

From what you're saying I think you're tank was overfilled! They say you can't overfill them with the new valves but some don't work, and if the guy filling your tank does'nt know he'll cram it as full as he can! I was getting a 5 gal. tank filled one time, came out and the dude put 5.5 gal. in the thing! Needless to say I had my first and last problem with overfilled tanks.Frozen reg. and it isn't good because any crap that is in the liquid gets in your reg.
I would suggest getting your reg rebuilt, get some new hoses or at least try to clean out your propane hose and always make sure the person filling your tanks opens the bleed valve while filling and as soon as you see long sputters of white liquid coming out yell at them to shut it off! And make sure they have the bleed valve open enough, sometimes they'll barely crack it and the liquid can't come out when it's full. Personally to avoid these problems if I don't know for sure the person filling my tank knows what they're doing I will just ask for a specific amout of gas.For example when I was using my 25 gal tanks I would run them down to around .5-1 gal and tell them to put 20 gal in, that way you always have head space for vapor. If you think that the temperature change from where you're getting them filled and where they are in your shop is enough to cause expansion this will work for that also. I never put more than 4 gal in an empty 5 gal tank just because I know what a pain this is. If you get freezing from pulling too many BTU's to fast it is more likely to freeze with less gas in the tank than with the right amount due to the fact that the less mass you have the faster it boils, the faster it boils the colder it gets and the faster you consume gas the faster it boils. So you get more BTU's out of a full tank than half a tank. This is why I believe your tank was overfilled cause with no head space the liquid boils into your reg. I just took my tank down and traded it at walmart for a full one that was't over filled to avoid messing with it.Of course propane was a lot cheaper then!
Hope this helps sorry to here you're dealing with this.

[Snurf]

ive seen roofing dudes just blast there 20 galon tanks with a roofing torch when it gets frozen.....I DO NOT RECOMEND THIS!!!!!!!! but it was crazy to watch.. at a distance.

[Big Jay]

wish I could find a picture of a guy who tried to do the same thing in his shed with a spray paint can on a very cold day. Hard to believe how much damage a little spray can can do but it destroyed the shed. Wouldn't recomend putting open flame to any compressed gas.
Roofers have the highest workers comp rate. Reading stuff like that makes you understand why.