psycone psucks

[redbeard]

so my apprentice ordered a psyclone oxygen generator, to fire his red max.(he doesn't have a computer, so i'll post this on behalf of him) and he's not getting any results....here's the details:
---no instructions in the box, no paperwork whatsoever.
---found two little inline filters and foam attachments, so we attached those.
---no adjustable pressure, only one switch on this thing.

so we flip the switch, fire up the torch, and voila! enuf oxy to barely run the top (snall) burner!
now, he knew it only give 90% or something, and not so pure, we knew that too. but shouldn't the bottom burner light up????
he tried letting it build up some pressure, machine started to really rattle after a few minutes....is there a tiny holding tank inside this thing? should he wait for pressure to build??

anyone go thru this problem before?
he's going to call the distributor he bought it from, i thought i would post here....

i intend on writing a full review on how this psycone machine runs a red max, as i've noticed info on this topic seems a little scarce. i'm suspicious of this company's claims at what percentages they power, as i ran a red max on an airsep 20 with a big ass compressor and holding tank.....how can this new company fit all that into this little tiny box??? hmmmm....

any help here would be appreciated.
thanks!

[menty666]

Can't help ya, but definitely post the follow up. I've been a little curious about this myself AND I've got a red max I was looking to run with it.

[Chris Juedemann]

any help here would be appreciated.


If there was a better solution than liquid or bottled, we would be using it.

[Mr. Wonka]

The Psyclone is a kick ass generator, and Unlimited Oxygen has the best customer service you could ask for from a company.

My Psyclone ran a Nortel Midrange / Minor together without a problem.

Give them a call and ask for Jack... he's a great dude to deal with and will get your problems taken care of.

[Chris Juedemann]

The Psyclone is a kick ass generator, and Unlimited Oxygen has the best customer service you could ask for from a company.

My Psyclone ran a Nortel Midrange / Minor together without a problem.

Give them a call and ask for Jack... he's a great dude to deal with and will get your problems taken care of.

Tom, I love ya, but lets be honest about these concentrators.. and I'm talking about all of them.

They don't give you that extra super heat when you need it. It's not there. I've never tried two or three in line, maybe that works great.. but to say they are great for boro work on a red max is not true.

Let me know if you want video and pictures.

[Chris Juedemann]

You do need to let it build up a bit before using it, btw.

[Mr. Wonka]

I agree with you 100% Chris- there's nothing that beats high pressure O2... I run 40+ psi to my Jupiter burner and I would never expect a machine to keep up that pressure.

BUT- I've worked with the Psyclone on a Midrange / Minor, and it can run:
A) Both torches at a fairly decent pressure (or)
B) One or the other at a good capacity.

I'm not a representitive or dealer for the company, but the one I was using worked very well. Also, for what you would spend on a unit like this vs. bottled O2, it would pay for itself within a year or so... you just can't rage as hard as you could with a K or cryo tank.

[Chris Juedemann]

I agree with you 100% Chris- there's nothing that beats high pressure O2... I run 40+ psi to my Jupiter burner and I would never expect a machine to keep up that pressure.

BUT- I've worked with the Psyclone on a Midrange / Minor, and it can run:
A) Both torches at a fairly decent pressure (or)
B) One or the other at a good capacity.

I'm not a representitive or dealer for the company, but the one I was using worked very well. Also, for what you would spend on a unit like this vs. bottled O2, it would pay for itself within a year or so... you just can't rage as hard as you could with a K or cryo tank.

Lissa and I have debated for years about generator/concentrator/liquid. The money saved is so tempting.. but that raging flame is all important.. and I'm a soft glass guy. I convinced my neighbor to buy one (sorry 'bout that), it makes beads, but slowly. Not much anyone here could do with it. They just don't work well enough. If they did, I'd sell a kidney to get one. It's that important and costly.

[redbeard]

thanks for the contact info tom, and thanks for sharing your experiences too, glasskitchen.
we kind of expected the "lack of raging flame", my apprentice only makes small spoons. he also keeps his pressure around 15 psi without problems. i have a holding tank i will try to bring it to his house tomorrow, i'll let you know if that makes any difference....
i guess my big question is: ANYONE USING A PSYCLONE?????
shout out!
thanks

[HOSS]

I wonder if someone handy with valves and such could set up a system to allow use of a concentrator, but with the ability to quickly switch over to a tank for an extra boost when needed? Maybe some kind of footswitch setup? If so, you could probably stretch an tank much further this way, be able to rage when you need to, and still get a lot of benefit from the free concentrator oxy. :puzzled: Just a thought.

[redbeard]

how long is build up "a bit" glasskitchen? i can't see this thing having much of a holding tank, is there an auto-shut-off when the pressure hits 20 or what??

[smutboy420]

Redbeard Even the holding tank they have inside them is pretty small like 2 or 3 litters. But they usealy don't have any pressure cut off swich in them sence they don;t ever make enought o2 to ever realy need to have to shut it off when its made more then you need.
Are you getting any sort of back pressure out of it? Like can you put you finger over the outlet and feel the pressure building up behind your finger at all? I'm wondering if maybe a hose came off inside the concentrator?????
Its pretty common for some reason on them and some of the other disgised medical units. Wich is basicly what all these new tiny "GLASS BLOWING" o2 concetrators are. They are usealy just a medical gen turned up way past specs. and then there are then ones that are just used medical concetrators with the outer shell removed and replaced with a sheet metal cabinit and put a larger price tag on it. a lot of the connections inside are just slip on hose connections with no hose clamps on a lot of the connections. Normaly they never get high pressure build up to blow any hose off so its not normaly a probelm on one thats never been modified at all or one ones servised by a qualified person..

Tho even if its working right I won't expect to much results from it on the bottom flame. tho you should at least get a flame. If not something is in need of a fixing

I got to say whwn I hear some one say how great one is then add in but its not like working from tanked o2. That Just don't comput with me. It sounds just the same as saying it works great as long as you don't mind the fact that it don't realy work well at all. Thats an oxymoron.

I just don;t see where somthing is any sort of help or $ saver if you have to hold back on your flame and the way you work.

A proper sized o2 system SHOULD not have any apparant noticable difrance to the user then if on tanked or liquid o2. Except it never runing out like a tank can.

[smutboy420]

wonder if someone handy with valves and such could set up a system to allow use of a concentrator, but with the ability to quickly switch over to a tank for an extra boost when needed? Maybe some kind of footswitch setup? If so, you could probably stretch an tank much further this way, be able to rage when you need to, and still get a lot of benefit from the free concentrator oxy. Just a thought.

BTW yes something like that can be made. You coul have it so it either switches between the concetrator or a tank. Or How a lot of peep get em set up if they are going to run a concentrator and tanked o2 is to order a pedal set up so they can hook there concentrator up to there inner flame. While using tanked o2 on there outer flame and the pedal to turn the outer flame on or off. thus conserving the tanked o2.

[somberbear]

Concetrators..... i call those any thing in one box kinda deals..... i havnt seen one thats good for any thing other then hand torchs and even then they flux so much..... i played with holding tanks but never got great results taking out the fluxing cause i could max it out so fast....

Im working on a larger system big enough for my needs..... as well as high pressure tanks , i

I belive on site gas as a pressure boost system to use a tank of o2 at high pressure to let you rage while conserving most other times when gas demand isnt so high....

I think the technology is alright but it could come a whole lot farther.... and cheaper to be viable... but it has potential...

also with these units you have to let em warm up i found.... and start getting o2 i gotta let mine free run for about 5 mins before i get something i can some what work with.

peace
rob

[Cosmo]

On the subject of concentrators....

I think it's either that the concentrator people are overstating how much oxygen they put out, or the torch manufacturers are understating how much oxygen their torches need. At a show recently I ran a Carlisle Hellcat on three M-15 concentrators. Two of them supposedly would run the torch, according to the manufacturer and the torch specs. With three I was able to get a decent flame, but that extra heat you reall need that Chris was talking about just wasn't there. And, the torch and concentrators were set up by Unlimited Oxygen, so they should know what it takes.

I'd love to find a concentrator or two (or three or four) to run my CC, but I don't see that happening, so I'm sticking with tanked oxygen (until I can bribe my O2 company to deliver liquid here).

[redbeard]

thanks for the feed back guys!
we'll open up the housing and see if any hoses are loose, and we'll try building up some pressure....smutboy yes there is back pressure, it is building some pressure up, it fires the top burner ok, nothing on bottom tho.

i'll say again, my apprentice knew this machine wouldn't give him "raging" heat, he makes small pipes, often only with fume....but the psyclone is giving him NO heat, thats the issue.

there was a two month waiting list to get this machine, so there MUST be more lampworkers trying to use the thing, anyone have any luck??

at least Unlimited Oxygen (or Extreme Oxygen as this new machine is labelled) claim to offer a money back guarentee....but what a pain in the ass!

[chuckworks]

well first of all the minor is a 7 hole torch and takes about 7-9 lpm to run , right?
so i figure you need about one liter per minuter for every propane hole on a surface mix. and the red max is what? 44?

then the machine, what they dont tell you is that its 20 lpm "static". it goes from 20 to 15 back and forth. so I wouldnt try running more than a midrange or cuda

if it doesnt run the minor then it may have been damaged in shipping or something.

make sure you arent voiding the warrenty before opening it up

[Blacksheep]

well first of all the minor is a 7 hole torch and takes about 7-9 lpm to run , right?
so i figure you need about one liter per minuter for every propane hole on a surface mix. and the red max is what? 44?

my thoughts excactly -according to the manafacurer it has the flow
20lpm and presure 20psi to run a cuda 6center & 12 outer ports
i dont see how it would be possible to run the max @ 44 ports!
but the manafacturer sayed the hurrricane will light and run the lower candles on the max (i emailed them after reading about this)
i would give Jack a call and see what he figures but it sounds like something is not quite right.
i had really hoped this machine would work well for my cuda.

[Jack Ridgeway]

thanks for the feed back guys!
we'll open up the housing and see if any hoses are loose, and we'll try building up some pressure....smutboy yes there is back pressure, it is building some pressure up, it fires the top burner ok, nothing on bottom tho.

i'll say again, my apprentice knew this machine wouldn't give him "raging" heat, he makes small pipes, often only with fume....but the psyclone is giving him NO heat, thats the issue.

there was a two month waiting list to get this machine, so there MUST be more lampworkers trying to use the thing, anyone have any luck??

at least Unlimited Oxygen (or Extreme Oxygen as this new machine is labelled) claim to offer a money back guarentee....but what a pain in the ass!

Hi Guys, this is jack from Unlimited Oxygen. If it says Extreme Oxygen on it, it is not from my shop. Someone else, namely my brother Paul is building these machines also. I heard he is also building the Hurricane. Please dont confuse the two. jack

[Big Jay]

wow one more thing to make it more confusing. :wes:

[Chris Juedemann]

wow one more thing to make it more confusing. :wes:

Confusing how? They don't work as advertised.

It's cool Jack came on and set the record straight about who manufactures the unit... but how much different are they? What super-boost goes in one as opposed to another?

I'd love to hear a success story with a concentrator- or even a generator that didn't require a 50 amp panel to run the unit and the compressor and have the storage tanks, etc..

I think the bulk of sales are bead artists.. I know Lissa (my wife) uses the tiniest flame ever, and would do well with one.. except it's a constant reduction flame. Other than that, no success stories seem to be popping up. She uses so little oxy, who cares if it's $25 a K tank? It would take a year to go through it.

Putting multiple units together.. thats crazy. I don't buy three cars to drive to the next town, or three pots to cook some pasta. I know everyone would love it if a single unit machine with the capability of producing the oxygen we need was available. A little less bullshit and a lot more development would do wonders for this type of product. For now, its worthless for what the majority of us do. The spec's are damn near subject to mail fraud.

Chris

[Blacksheep]

well ill be damned the brother is makin machines named the same
do they work the same ? ive heard of unlimited and thought id seen a few folks with cuda's happy with them -never heard there was a copy out there
another funny thing i notice ABR is selling them but i think its the copy one -the ABR logo is conveniently where the nameplate goes!
WTF did they make em i highly doubt it also the spelling of cyclone
is different -psyclone for the copy which is also the one @ ABR
looks like a fuckin scam goin down to me
i sure hope they stand beside the product the same for your apprentices sake

http://www.dichroicimagery.com/product_info.php?cPath=93&products_id=4672

[menty666]

I just want to have them back a praxair liquid oxy tanker up next to my house, hook the torch up to it and have them just deliver a new trailer once a year. That'd be pretty darn close to my happy place.

[smutboy420]

I just want to have them back a praxair liquid oxy tanker up next to my house, hook the torch up to it and have them just deliver a new trailer once a year. That'd be pretty darn close to my happy place.

They would do that if you where a high enought volume user. or if you were a real real hi volume user they would just drop off a skided o2 plant and charge you for what you use. They even install there own electric line and pay for the electric.
Its just like having your own real o2 gen exceept you don't own it they do and instead of paying the electric and getting cheap o2 in return. they pay the electric and you get more expensive o2 in return :-)

OR Why not just buy a real o2 genaratore and not have to have the truck come deliver a new trailer ever. Cause thats pretty much what having a properly sized o2 gen should feel like. YOU should be albe to just take your o2 for granit.
Like water out of your faucet in your sink.

I know all these difrent pretend o2 genarators make it seem like its hard to get one that can priduce how ever much o2 one would need. But as far as I know there is no limit to how big an o2 genarator vcan be made and no limit to the amount you can have one designed to make. So even if some one had a huge factory with 1,000 works all torching at the same time. There are exsisting o2 gens that can make enought o2 to keep them running 24/7 and the biger and bigger they get the cheaper and cheaper they cost to buy and to a point the bigger they are the cheaper they cost to run per unit of o2 produced.
They even have contunius liquid o2 plants. That make liquid o2 24/7 at the cost of $75 in electric use per ton of o2 produced. I forget off hand how many liquid tanks are in a ton but its a lot. atleast 6 or 7 standard sized liquids.
I'm not at home right now so I don't have exact figures handy.
Plues my head is killing me right now. Not good at thinking this monring.

[Micah Evans]

success story warning

i have an unlimited oxygen generator at home to run my little torch and it works great! i know its barely a torch but its the right tool for the job. It runs it really really well, blazing hot....but it is just a jewelry torch...

i know there is really no solution out there to run my delta like i like to run it but there are applications that a generator works just fine for.

here are some of the things i have made lately with it

[smutboy420]

i know there is really no solution out there to run my delta like i like to run it Delta mag or delta elite?

HUM why would that be?Do you mean in your price range? Or Do you have some weird way you use your delta or some thing?I can't seem to figure out why your delta would take any more o2 then any other person raging there delta at 100% full force.
An onsite pro8 can run a delta elite with out even breaking a sweat.
But if your tsalking delta mag then. Your right about the cut off line. Then you need something like a pro10 or osgi100. Because the pro8 would be right at its max limit if you ran a delta mag full flame all the time.

BTW does any one need pictures to see that a delta elite Can be run off of an o2 gen no problem at all? or even a maya torch for that matter wich eats o2 way more then a delta elite does.

[jethro]

I think what they are getting at is that there is no "all in one box" oxygen generator (with compressor line dryer etc) available on the market to run big torches. But there sure are a million out there that claim to be.

Most people don't want to deal with the guesswork and research it would take to put togeather an oxy system for their particular set up.

So why dont these companies give the people what they want instead of thowing up false claims of what their systems can do? Afterall if someone built it and offered it for sale I am sure enough people would jump on the bandwagon to make it worthwhile no matter what the initial cost is.

[SteppingRazor]

check out these guys

http://www.adaptiveozone.com/products.htm

they make boosters and concentrators. ect.

~Joe

[Big Jay]

their generators post some impressive numbers there. wonder what they cost.

[Micah Evans]

HUM, sorry there smutty didnt mean to insult oxy generators. I guess i mean within my price range and size constraints. I am a fan of generators and I do know there are generators out there that could probably power multiple deltas and any other torch if I had the money and or space!

people seem to be pretty down on generators but if you do the research on what you can actually run on one instead of trusting somebody elses opinion that is trying to sell you one you will probably find one that fits your needs.

[Big Jay]

What I can figure out is when it becomes viable. If you figure your spending $150.00 a month on oxy you could say it would take almost 5 years for one of those machines to pay for itself but that wouldn't include elect and maintnence. I am guessing without a holding tank those puppies will spin your elect meter pretty fast.
I understand its the convience factor of never running out, but I would think the main allure would be to save money. Cause if running out was the only reason you'd just run to tanks and still save money.
Oh well maybe someday there will be a "reasonable" answer.

[somberbear]

ummm my compressor in general running it all day doing blasting and stuff costs me about that of a kiln running all day.... just saying.... and that compressor i believes rated to run a pro 4 atleast i could figure it out some time.... the gens themself from what i seen would run about that of a lamp if that to run. and the refridgerated dryer probably that of my beer fridge.

over all i wouldnt mind paying the little extra cash to not deal with my oxy supply problems.... and they caluclating in deliver charge and or gas money for it... comes out pretty ahead.

ok so i been trying to figure it out and i think we need to get people togather that understand compressors and pnumanic systems and set it up in the wiki common stuff like cfm , pressure etc caluclations and simple explinations or atleast a threat with links...

peace
rob

[Glacier_Arts_Studio]

check out these guys

http://www.adaptiveozone.com/products.htm

they make boosters and concentrators. ect.

~Joe

way kool link...
i am a link wHor3...


their generators post some impressive numbers there. wonder what they cost.

i didn't see that either...$$$
very impressive ###

well, till you look at purity...!!! 90-94%...!!!
from what i hear about the difference between high pressure/liquid is just 2-3% and it makes a huge difference in flame/heat of the torch... a thread here just after i joined was about someone that had always used bottled o2 and made the switch... he was amazed at the difference in his torch of many years... i think $75 per ton of liquid would be ideal... with what you could sell your extra liquid form would buy some really KooL $tuff... when making liquid o2, don't you get a lot of other gases as well...???

[Kalera]

I use two oxygen concentrators with my Barracuda, and I'm very happy with them... but I make mostly beads (boro and soft). I work fast and hot, and I feel the oxygen I'm getting is plenty, but if I were trying to work larger I wouldn't be happy.

One thing to know when you get a concentrator for the first time is that they need to warm up; let it run for about ten minutes before you start using it.

[menty666]

any idea how to find out how many liters per minute a given torch is supposed to be using? I'm just looking at the adaptiveozeone page and the numbers don't mean much to me without being able to know that.

[smutboy420]

HUM, sorry there smutty didnt mean to insult oxy generators. I guess i mean within my price range and size constraints. I am a fan of generators and I do know there are generators out there that could probably power multiple deltas and any other torch if I had the money and or space!

LOL don't worry you din't insult o2 genarators.


people seem to be pretty down on generators but if you do the research on what you can actually run on one instead of trusting somebody elses opinion that is trying to sell you one you will probably find one that fits your needs.


I think thats were MOST of the cinfusion on genarators comes from is the fact that most of the info and claims come from all the difrent places trying to sell them. Esp when they are not glass blowers trying to edge in on the glass market.


If you figure your spending $150.00 a month on oxy you could say it would take almost 5 years for one of those machines to pay for itself but that wouldn't include elect and maintnence. I am guessing without a holding tank those puppies will spin your elect meter pretty fast.

Ya the less o2 you are already using the more time it would take to pay one off. BUT the less it would cost to run if some one dint use a lot of o2. being as it would not need to run many total hours per day, Also small system would be needed to fit a small chiper o2 habbit.

Now if your some one that is curantly using $150-$200 a week in o2 thats when a genarator starts realy paying you back fast when all you do is pay $40 or $50 a month in electric to run the compressor and air drier. IF your realy using it a lot like if you work 12 hour days with more then one person at a time working and work 7 days a week it can be as high as like $60-$80 a month on electric.
So if a $200 a week o2 bill turns in to a $100 a month electric bill $175 a week savings adds up fast. Thats about $9,100 a year payback. factoring in the $45 a year coist for filters and maintance thats still under a year to pay its self off. then you have a $9000 per year raise with out doing any more work then the year before.

Normaly in biz any thing that can have return in investment in 4 years is considered good.

[redbeard]

well HOLY SHIT. i just got in, checked this thread.....where to start....

"A little less bullshit and a lot more development would do wonders for this type of product. For now, its worthless for what the majority of us do. The spec's are damn near subject to mail fraud."

FUCKIN RIGHT. Mail Fraud. i'll get back to this....

but what's really got MY balls in a pinch is this.....


"i notice ABR is selling them but i think its the copy one -the ABR logo is conveniently where the nameplate goes!
WTF did they make em i highly doubt it also the spelling of cyclone
is different -psyclone for the copy which is also the one @ ABR
looks like a fuckin scam goin down to me"

I'm pretty sure my apprentice thought he was ordering an UNLIMITED oxygen machine......now i hear there's two Fucking Companys, one of which is a fucking brother copying the other fucking machine???? excuse my french, but i'm slightly pissed, and i'm the peaceful hippie here. wait till my apprentice hears this!! he's not so peaceful, and he ain't a hippie.

ABR step up here.....anyone from that company on this forum??
how about "brother" Paul or "brother" Jack.??? whats the facts??

whoever the fuck is making these machines is TOTALLY LYING. you've wasted my apprentices time and money, thus my time and money. this torch does NOT run a red max at 90%, as it arrived it MAYBE powers 20%... With a 60 gallon holding tank, i can run a red max at 15 psi at full for five minutes. barely enuf to make anything!!this machine might be great for a bead maker, or for a smaller torch. but to claim it would run a larger torch is BULLSHIT....

now i find out ABR is selling knock-offs? is this Extreme Oxygen generator any different than UNlimited? WHATS THE FUCKING FACTS????? no more bullshit.

[PyroChixRock]

Wow you cuss a lot. :twitch:


So hey...that guy just came and dissed on his brother. That's pretty whack! I would never diss on my brother, something feels off about that just from that post alone. I hope we get the rest of the story here.

[redbeard]

i hope we get the full story too.
sorry for all the cussin'....:) kids are in bed, and i'm into the wine
and i'm pissed about whats going on here..
something doesn't smell right about these businesses.

[PyroChixRock]

The wine will do it. :) I'm sorry you guys are having trouble. lets hope they straighten it out for you...one of them or the other!

[Jack Ridgeway]

Wow you cuss a lot. :twitch:


So hey...that guy just came and dissed on his brother. That's pretty whack! I would never diss on my brother, something feels off about that just from that post alone. I hope we get the rest of the story here.

Hi, I did not diss my brother. I simply dont know who is building for him. I do not want to be held accountable for his machines. I love my brother, we just did'nt agree on things, so he left the company. I have no problem with him. I just wish he would'nt use the Unlimited Oxygen name on his machines. Please feel free to ask anything. jack

[tommb1]

i have had my unlimited oxygen concentrator (psyclone) now for about maybe 2 years (whenever they first came out) anyway i had a 2 stud phantom and i was very dissapointed it did not run it like as advertised. the first one they sent shook like crazy so they sent me another one , this was over a few months being on waiting lists , anyway i now have it hooked to my inner fire of the mirage and use tanked on the outer.. i hope that when they get everything worked out on the machine they remember the people who paid the price and did not get what they expected and upgrade the machine to what they advertise it to do.. i will have to say jack was very nice and i had no problems with customer service... they told me they would work with me to get things right.... as far as a review for the machine goes , there is a breathing problem that took a while to get use too and on some micro flames it makes my torch like blow out. i have had a hose come off on the inside wich was a quick fix but messed me up in what i was working on. if i had it to do again i would have probly gotten a smaller one and saved a grand since all it is used for it the lynx part of the torch... all i really want is them to make it right in the future for all of us old customers (upgrades) and new ones.

[redbeard]

jack pm'd me, and he does sound like a nice guy, i don't know if that makes up for selling machines that won't do what they claim to do....

i'm hoping abr will step up here, fill in some blanks. when my apprentice called to order this machine, he asked for an UNlimited Oxygen Psyclone I machine. he ordered with the understanding it would power a red max to 90% capapcity.
ABR did NOT tell him they were selling Extreme machines, they just put him on a waiting list for a couple months.

maybe this machine is great, but it's not great for a big torch.
i plan on writing a full review after all this is over. maybe save some folks a whole lot of headaches.

[Big Jay]

Wow you cuss a lot. :twitch:


So hey...that guy just came and dissed on his brother. That's pretty whack! I would never diss on my brother, something feels off about that just from that post alone. I hope we get the rest of the story here.

Not to mention that hes letting his bro sell a concentrator not only with the exact same product name but a company name that is obviously geared to trick people by name recognition. Even if though its your bro this matter should be handled legally or people might assume they can't trust either company.

[dws glass]

well I had a m15 from unlimited and it would run my cc 's inner flame at 60%
but it puddered out after 3 or 4 months it still had pressure but there was no 02
to make a flame so I called up jack and he sent me a new one but it got dammaged in shiping and I had a good battle with glass graft and jack to
get the machine returned /my refund took about 6 to 8 months but jack did come thrue we did not get along but he was still a stand up guy !!

on the other hand glass graft sucks and I will never order any thing from them
ever agin they dont know what customer service is they got me so mad on the phone that I had to scream at them to get my money back. they wanted me to pay all the shiping for the machines to be returned and well they pissed me off real good befor I had to call my lawyer and then things went my way even thoe it took 6 to 8 months

[redbeard]

i just talked to Ross at ABR, and got his scoop on the two different companies owned by two different brothers.
I was relieved to learn I'm dealing with honest good folk here (i'm told), and it looks like we'll solve this problem hopefully soon.
it sounds like the two bros just couldn't work under same roof, and are building exact same machines. Hopefully one of them will share a little of the story, so we know there's nothin fishy about it all. is there any difference between the two machines, besides spelling?
I think there needs to be more information out on these machines, maybe a peer-review, (someone we know of really testing these machines out)....
if this machine here is in proper working order, it will not power a barracuda (tried last night) or a red max/major burner as claimed.
for bead makers, or smaller torch users, i bet this machine kicks ass.
its quiet, small & light, perfect for hauling down to costa rica to blow glass on the beach......

[PyroChixRock]

Hi, I did not diss my brother. I simply dont know who is building for him. I do not want to be held accountable for his machines. I love my brother, we just did'nt agree on things, so he left the company. I have no problem with him. I just wish he would'nt use the Unlimited Oxygen name on his machines. Please feel free to ask anything. jack

thanks for letting us know. :)

[LewisW]

I got a Psyclone for my daughter Jenny at one of the ISGB Gatherings maybe 2 years ago now. We've had no problems at all.

Jenny has a small condo - I'm sure having an open flame would violate something. So there's no way we could bring in a cylinder. For awhile I was filling the real small cylinders-but they charge you more to fill them, and they didn't last very long. So we got Jenny two old medical units (not sure brand name), piggy backed them off of each other. These two units would only run her Lynx at about 70%. Had no umpph to it. Could only do soft glass-didn't have enough strength to even open the 2nd oxy port. [keep in mind we live in Albuquerque NM and are about 1-mile high, so you we need more oxy to run stuff than those at or near sea level].

If you are running a small torch, or are near sea level, you may want to check into old medical units. I got the ones we used for about $150 each-just wasn't powerful enough (combination of being high altitude and running a torch that needed more power). Might be able to go this way if you are on a Minor working soft glass at a lower elevation...

Anyway, once we hooked up the Psyclone Jenny was able to run the Lynx full strength-allowing her to work boro for sculptures, etc. The first minute the machine is turned on the flame fluctuates a little as it adjusts - other than that, runs just like her Lynx does here in my studio (on Liquid oxy). I know when we first brought the machine home I tried it on a torch in my studio (can't remember what it was-maybe a Knight bullet? or might have been the Lynx) to make sure it would work. Also didn't have any shipping issue because I drove it back from the conference I bouth it at.

Just figured we'd add our experience to the thread. Jack at Unlimited Oxy has always stood behind his products-if there's an issue, he will work to fix it. Same goes for Ross at ABR.

Paul just recently (within the last month or so I think) started making his own units-so there might not be anyone that can share their experience with his units yet.

Lewis C. Wilson

[sanity7975]

ABR Posting here !!! We would like to say that we deal with both jack and Paul from unlimited oxygen and extreme oxygen respectively. As well both are great business men and both make excellent product and both stand behind it!! I do agree that the multiple companies may create confusion for some but i think that they are dealing with this as we speak!!! Both are doing extremely well labeling their machines and neither are hiding from their customers!! If you have any issue with either machine it will be dealt with just let the manufacturer know and they will take care of it!!!!
If you have any questions please let us know and we will direct you to the right person!!!!

[Jessica Landau]

Got the Unlimited Oxygen M15 generator from Wale Apparatus back in November, trusted the good word of my sales rep that it would run a Lynx no problem, it arrived slightly damaged, superficially cracked bottom, 2 broken castors. And waaay late with no explanation about backorders from Wale until I called up to say WTF! For others who are thinking of a generator to power the Lynx, I would recommend spending the extra money on the next model up, my current setup runs only up to about the middle of where it was before. But for me, this is a great deal. Hawaii oxygen prices are through the roof, I envisioned that I couldn't get delivery without raising the eyebrows of neighbors and my landlord if the huge Gaspro truck was barrelling down my little road...so for me on an extreme budget, and having to borrow cars to drive for one hour each way to get one small tank at a time so that I could lift it on my own for $40 / tank once a week, yeah i think you probably see what I'm getting at. At that point in time, I was barely able to afford to work and had a lot of extra hassle. I'll fly the generator flag at half mast for a while, it's a much better deal than struggling for next to nothing! But Jack, please send me new castors! You guys offered to do so back in December, and I've been making do. And I've emailed you a few times...Could I please get more of a manual for the generator too? It came with 3 photocopied sheets with very little infomation about care and maintenance...Thanks and good luck to all others who have jumped on the generator wagon, our art may suffer slightly but at least our overhead's low!

[Big Jay]

keep in mind we live in Albuquerque NM and are about 1-mile high, so you we need more oxy to run stuff than those at or near sea level].



Lewis C. Wilson

You got me really scratching my head on that since your dealing with compressed oxy. Unless your saying since the air is thinner at altitude a generator can't produce as much oxy.

[Greymatter Glass]

With concentrators and generators at altitude you'll get less efficiency, which if you're running things on the edge of their rated design specs you'd probably notice.

With bottled oxygen you do use ever so slightly more oxygen to get a neutral flame, due to the reduced amount of oxygen at 5000' in the air that would normally mix into the flame. I would believe this amount to be negligible, and probably only detectable over very long period of use.


Personally, I've never noticed a difference in the way the glass works at altitude vs. sea level.... but I don't have the finesse and concentration on detail that Lewis has built up, nor the experience, so I'd defer to him on that subject.

-Doug

[Blacksheep]

ABR Posting here !!! We would like to say that we deal with both jack and Paul from unlimited oxygen and extreme oxygen respectively. As well both are great business men and both make excellent product and both stand behind it!! I do agree that the multiple companies may create confusion for some but i think that they are dealing with this as we speak!!! Both are doing extremely well labeling their machines and neither are hiding from their customers!! If you have any issue with either machine it will be dealt with just let the manufacturer know and they will take care of it!!!!
If you have any questions please let us know and we will direct you to the right person!!!!

Ross nowhere on your site does it say there are 2 different companys making the same machine
to the contrary the is YOUR logo smack dab where the UNLIMITED OXYGEN Name would be
WTF is that? or are you making them as well?
till two days ago anyone ordering a psyclone would have been expecting an unlimited machine considering the suprise at finding there now is two manafacturers
something tells me you knew and its pretty fuckin shady to put your logo on the machine in the photos rather than telling people <espesially folks buying one!

[redbeard]

thanks for the reply ross. i've been assured this will be taken care of. i hope paul and jack figure out what to call the generator company.....

jessica you could add a holding tank, which would give you a buffer to work with.
i tried my 60 gallon holding tank with the psyclone to see if it would help power the redmax, and i was able to have a FULL raging flame for probably 5 minutes or so, then if i switched to top burner and let it build for five or ten, then i could rage again. same for barracuda. holding tank has a regulator, so you can moniter pressure drop. unfortunately, my apprentice is a no-go on that. he would have to re-structure his day, make big piece, small piece, prep a couple....wouldn't work for him......anyways....a holding tank seriously helped this machine, i Highly recommend one. it takes care of any 'breathing' too.

[Mike_Aurelius]

Concentrator/generator at altitude vs. tanked/liquid oxygen:

Keep in mind that a concentrator/generator can only take out of the air what is there in the first place, and being at 1 mile of altitude, there is several percentage points less oxygen in the air...therefore, there will be less oxygen delivered from the machine, maybe as much as 3-4 percent.

Tanked/liquid oxygen is relatively pure, tanked coming in somewhere around 96-98 percent and liquid at 100 percent, regardless of altitude.

That's why it takes at least one more concentrator "at altitude" to run a torch than it does at sea level.

[Jack Ridgeway]

Hey Jessica, I sent the castors and got them back. I was hoping to hear from you so I could confirm your address. I sorry. If you call me at 866-955-0200 I will re-send them. I will send a couple of filters as well so you wont have to wait on them. As far as the instructions go, the three page print out is all we have. The only maintenance is the filters. Keep them clean and replace when needed. We dont supply hook-up instructions because there are about as many different ways to hook-up as there are torches. I am glad the machine is working for you. I will send the castors soon. jack

[Jessica Landau]

Thank you Jack, I will call you on Monday to confirm my address. Also thanks to Redbeard and to Chuckworks for noticing my post and offering advice. And always thanks to Ben Burton Glass for telling me about this site / motivating me to go out on my own / letting me borrow a kiln! Umm OK no more of this, I sound like I just won the Nobel Peace Prize or somethin...

[kbinkster]

With self-contained, stand-alone units, there really isn't much you can do about a loss of oxygen concentration due to elevation. But, even so, my supplier for 5 LPM reconditioned medical units told me that the difference in purity from a concentrator run at sea level and one run at higher altitude is only around 2 to 3 tenths of one percent. Practically speaking, I have run Regalias at lower elevations as well as up here at over 6500 ft and I don't notice a difference.

As for the big units, you can compensate and overcome by dumping more feed air into the system. When I size OnSite Units, it is helpful to know at what altitude it will be running, because at higher elevations, you will need a larger air compressor for the feed air. The mechanics of seperating the oxygen and nitrogen are the same, the compressor just has to move more feed air into the seives. You still have the same, or very close to the same, output concentration.

BTW, where do you think oxygen supply places get the oxygen that they put into tanks? Many generate/concentrate their oxygen on-site at a main plant and ship it out to their distribution facilities from there. I don't think that the oxygen companies here around Denver truck in cylinders from sea level as it would be cost prohibitive.

Oh, and of course there are other factors that will reduce oxygen concentration. Heat and humidity can decrease performance. The question, though, is at what point is a decrease acceptable? I sell concentrators (as many of you already know), but I will be the first to tell you that you will get the best performance from your torch when you use tanked or liquid (because you can have more than you need on demand - as long as your tank is full). However, there are some torches and concentrators out there that work really, really well together - and some run not much differently on a concentrator than on tanked where the small difference in purity between the tank and the concentrator output is negligible.

Everything is a give and take and you have to weigh things out. In order to get this, you might have to give up that. Ultimately, you, the glassworker, are the one who has to decide what you want. But, it sure helps to have the straight facts for making a decision and not just marketing hype or even false claims.

[Arik]

:o:

I would like to throw out a little love for the concentrator industry..:bouncy:..I have a few linked...but I have no problems reaching good flame/vessel size.

I dont like the idea of one unit.:twitch:..if your compressor goes out ...your out....with many units...compressor failure only makes for a little less oxy, you just turn an extra on and keep flaming. I've been running some old devilbiss units for 5 years + with no filter change even...and just got 3 units from the new guys(mentioned here) and the units go impure in an hour...but mixed with the whole cabinet I have...no probs overall. I feel very passionate about the $$$$$$$ I've saved, and the backache/heartache not suffered when the tank is needing immediate :bangHead: change.

[menty666]

Just curious, RV, what kind of torch are you running there?

[Arik]

Red Max .... the BEST torch to run on concentrators! the minor takes 15 lpm at 10 psi to full throttle...or 25 lpm at 7-9 psi. the REdMAX in the picture is running on 7 concentrators for a toltal of 35 lpm and the 11 lpm units keep the total pressure up. when running 5 units, I can infuse up to 20 lpm of just compressed air into the mix and the Redmax functions fine...burns hjot and clean...but the minor goes without pure O2.

LOOKIE!

[menty666]

that is one heck of a setup!

[smutboy420]

Man whats your electric bill like with all them small compressors running?

[menty666]

I was thinking that myself. Might actually be cheaper to get the K tanks hehehe

[murf]

Got a big question for Jack. How is it you don’t know what you brother is building? Don’t you both share a home, and a joint business under the name of South Central Cryogenics LLC? the Mooresville Police Department provided me with this information. If you need the name and number of the office pm me."

[Greymatter Glass]

wtf?

First this is old news.

Second, WhoTF are you calling the police dept to get info on these guys?

Third, that's what you call a "big question" ? really?

wow.

just wow.

-Doug

[murf]

maybe old news,

and why?
Why am I'm calling and making inquires with the Mooresville Police Department ? because a felony was committed in the state of Washington.

the question
how can he not know what his brother is building? how can he and his brother be independent as a company when they fall under the same umbrella of the parent company and it LLC? As far as I know and the evidence tells me that all funds sent to Oxygen Unlimited are placed in a account under the parent name that being South Central Cryogenics LLC.

[Greymatter Glass]

A felony, huh? ok....

And you obviously know little or nothing about how corporations work. it's very easy for a family business to operate as several divisions of which none are responsible to the other. An LLC is a very specific way to avoid those liabilities by keeping things separate.

As for bank accounts, that has nothing to do with business. Accounting, yes - bank accounts, no. Banks are their own separate entities, and divisions/DBAs are not required to keep separate bank accounts or even have bank accounts - as long as they keep their accounting and reporting up to whatever is required.

..... I'm just still surprised you brought this up.

[murf]

so if i do business with oxygen unlimited then his brother has really no knowledge of
of Jacks business practices? yet i have done business with oxygen unlimited and my bank statement states the charges where taken by South Central Cryogenics LLC which is in both their names as a business. are you saying that the pooling of money and the lack of over seeing the accounts is standard practice? if you have a vested interest in a corporation, wouldn't you be more than aware of your partners practices for the well being and growth of the corporation. jack claims to have split in this thread from his brother in business, I more than curious in what respect and I guess only jack can tell me.

[Mike_Aurelius]

**IF** there is pooling of money, then the LLC for the separate businesses has been broken. That's a pretty big if, IMO.

Just because it is the same bank doesn't mean it is the same account.

And making a claim of a felony is a pretty big charge -- that's usually left to District Attorneys. Remember innocent until PROVEN guilty? That is the law of the land.

If you are having a problem with them, make a complaint with the local police department and/or the county attorney and let them handle it. Don't come on here throwing wild accusations around without proof.

You can also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.

[Big Jay]

**

You can also file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.


what a total waste of time. Has no bearing on anything whatsoever. I mean I have never once called to check with the BBB on any complaints before buying a product. I mean honestly can you see walking around wal mart and calling about every vendor before you check out.

[Greymatter Glass]

I agree, the BBB used to be a good idea.

it's like FOG on a bigger scale.

No one takes the BBB seriously any more. I've tried to settle 2 disputes through the BBB in the past and both times _NOTHING_ happened and the companies just shrugged it off like they don't care.


...as for Murf - have you met Jack and Paul? Paul is his little brother by about 20 years. They don't hold hands on every thing they do, and I'd be surprised to hear they live in the same house - but maybe they do. so yes, it's _VERY_ easy for me to accept that Paul was doing something less than legitimate behind his brothers back for a period of time. Trust me, Jack is _NOT_ happy about the situation, but when it's family what can you do? I don't see him sueing his brother.

As for accounts and LLC's there's _NOTHING_ in any law (at least in New Mexico) that tells a business how it has to handle it's money once it's been accounted for. I often take checks from my parent company to pay off things for my business and vise-versa. A Bank is just a big hole filled with money, everyones money. The ONLY thing that shows what's what is numbers. You think they put the money in seprate safes or something? A bank is a business, just like any other but their product is money/credit.

You really need to grasp the diffence between a bank account and accounting.

and South Central Cryogenics is the parents company of Unlimited Oxygen, so yes, anything you pay them goes to SSC. SSC would then pay a salary to Jack, and make cash infusions to Unlimited Oxygen as needed. it's 100% legit and on the up and up. I don't know what you're triping about there.

-Doug

[murf]

just asking so I know, simple as that

[Big Jay]

just asking so I know, simple as that


there could be legal issues with whats going on but it would probably have to prove intent. Then it would probably have to come down to wether they were criminal or civil. All of which would have to be brought to the proper authority be it local,state, federal or the court system.
Since Jack openly stated on this board his brother was making the same products on a new company using an almost identical name without his approval and/or knowledge but they have a paper trail of the checks going into the same bank account I'd say its seriously bordering fraud.

[redbeard]

i just wish the damn machine worked.
I wish Ross would honor his warranty and issue me a refund.
i wish Paul would call me back.
I wish we had never bought this machine.
it won't power a red max as they claimed
it won't power a lynx centerfire either.
it bogs down, shakes ratttles and rolls, and resets itself. won't keep up to any torch i own.
So far Paul has been great to deal with. Ross not so.
Please call / message me Paul!
This machine Psucks!

[murf]

I agree, the BBB used to be a good idea.

it's like FOG on a bigger scale.

No one takes the BBB seriously any more. I've tried to settle 2 disputes through the BBB in the past and both times _NOTHING_ happened and the companies just shrugged it off like they don't care.


...as for Murf - have you met Jack and Paul? Paul is his little brother by about 20 years. They don't hold hands on every thing they do, and I'd be surprised to hear they live in the same house - but maybe they do. so yes, it's _VERY_ easy for me to accept that Paul was doing something less than legitimate behind his brothers back for a period of time. Trust me, Jack is _NOT_ happy about the situation, but when it's family what can you do? I don't see him sueing his brother.

As for accounts and LLC's there's _NOTHING_ in any law (at least in New Mexico) that tells a business how it has to handle it's money once it's been accounted for. I often take checks from my parent company to pay off things for my business and vise-versa. A Bank is just a big hole filled with money, everyones money. The ONLY thing that shows what's what is numbers. You think they put the money in seprate safes or something? A bank is a business, just like any other but their product is money/credit.

You really need to grasp the diffence between a bank account and accounting.

and South Central Cryogenics is the parents company of Unlimited Oxygen, so yes, anything you pay them goes to SSC. SSC would then pay a salary to Jack, and make cash infusions to Unlimited Oxygen as needed. it's 100% legit and on the up and up. I don't know what you're triping about there.

-Doug

as i said "just asking so I know, simple as that" my statement of their living and working partnership was passed on to me by what I would consider a reliable source. that source was edited out by the forum powers to be and so I go along with their wishes. this thread was sent to me in the thought that I might find its contents interesting. if my inquiring is just old news I'm sorry about that.

[JayBlump]

I know this is an old topic but I have some input that might help those with generator problems. I run an EX-15 on a minor. It works great but only after I figured out how I needed to run it. First a concentrator should never be run to "build up pressure" before using it. The generator should never be on with a closed oxygen valve (at the torch). They do not like back pressure at all. In the medical world that means the patient has an obstruction to their airway and many concentrators are still equipped with alarms for when this happens. khb

Concentrators want to run steadily at a specific psi with minimal change. I turn my torch oxygen valve wide open and let the concentrator run at whatever psi I will be working. Then leave it alone for ten minutes. I set it at around 7-8 which I found is best for the Minor. After 10 minutes its ready to go. I close the o2 valve for just long enough to crack the propane valve and light the torch, then go immediately back to a wide open oxy valve. From there I mostly adjust the propane valve for flame width and rarely mess with the other valve.


Before I did it this way I hated the generator and just thought it sucked. I did the same thing as the original poster. I turned it on and it didn't work very well then I thought it had to build up pressure to I let it run for a bit with the O2 valve closed. Went back, still got a weak flame and heavy breathing. But after I figured out what I needed to do in order to help it perform at its best, I have had no complaints. Oh and the EX-15 is from Extreme-Oxygen, the accused knck off company.

Hope I don't get flamed to badly if I'm just beating a dead horse here. Then again someone may find this and be helped by it.

[jr23]

Thats a fine way to run a oxy con. But that is not the problem these folks are having. As you see from AK's post it takes about 5-7 machines linked to run a red-max. Also they say they can run a small torch at 90-100%. I had a M-10 then a m15 and could see little difference in running each one. When I obtained the gtt cricket I was able to get the same flame from concentrators or tanked gas.

What that showed me was out of the 5 torches I have around the con only worked one to its full range. And its range was small.

[Master Yoda]

Ya the whole psyclone thing is really a problem with warm humid air imho. I have a psyclone and in about may it shits the bed (upstate ny), all winter long though it works it's balls off and pumps out close to 20 psi, powers my 25 port mid range well. This year I'm looking to get a monster AC or dehumidifier to attempt to avoid oxygen tank rental. Another real problem is the advertising that originally went with the psyclone, maybe it worked like that in north dakota, but not so cal or similar climates, I bought mine expecting it to run a major, obviously I had to downgrade to a mid range to fit it.

[ALIEN!]

Ok, I gotta chime in on this one. I run a Hurricane, here's my story:
I bought it from Jack in August '08. When it got to me, the compressors worked, but it wasnt making enough oxygen to keep a blue flame. I sent it back, it came back to me in working order, though I wasn't very impressed with it. I ran it for a month, one day it died. Again, working compressor, no oxy. This time it was blowing powder all over itself from the seive bed. I sent it back. They had it for 3 fucking months during which time I couldnt afford to blow because I had spent my funds on glass and the generator and wasnt able to sell shit, therefor no Oxy budget.

Finally I called Jack and said I'd need it back in a week or would have to pursue a refund. He called me the next day saying it was on its way and that it had overheated, and that one of the fans had even died and warped/melted a little. This seems odd to me seeing as I was blowing in an air-conditioned basement. (was october and cool when it died anyway) When it got to me, im pretty sure its a wholly different unit than the one I sent, a factory ding on the lid was missing, fan in back was different. He threw in some "lifetime maintenance free filter".

Now, the new one works great. I have a 26 gallon reserve tank in line, I get enough oxy to make a nice goblet off 38x2.7mm tube using the SM-21 tip on a my National 8M which is an inefficient tip oxy-wise. Jack was always pleasant on the phone and professional, but for the record the problems with the machine and the 3 month long "repair" job sure did have me boiling. In hindsight, now that I have a connection for super-cheap K tanks, i'd have rather bought me a GTT. Especially considering how sick of the loud ass racket the generator makes. It literally sends my packing some days.

If you do go with one of these, you MUST get a reserve tank for it. I honestly wish my tank was a few gallons bigger, but I can't complain.

I don't trust the machines durability. I think their equipment is still in its infancy and a bit pricey considering the quality. I also dont like the fact that these units are refurbished medical units. For the price they should be new, quality engineered products. If jack is reading this: one thing that would make them 10 times better is a quiet compressor, or even sell a unit w/o compressor built in. I work in the basement of my duplex, i cant run it late at night due to the mind numbing racket. I think someday UO may have a top-notch product, but in my experience, today is not the day. If I had any knowledge of how this thing worked, I'd try and hook up a different quieter compressor to it myself. Oh also, if you are thinking of buying one, keep in mind the low purity from these machines makes for a much cooler flame, which equals a lot longer melt-time.

[painintheglass]

wow, good thread on why not to get a o2 gen.

i think it was funny that jack comes on and just says " thats not my machine"
and never talks about the claims they both make about powering the redmax.

and then arik says the redmax runs great on o2gens ....... 7 of them :D

20 cents a KWH .... do the math with that


i think ill get a tank :devilish:

[Loïc]

I run a Airsep80 wich is just like a Onsite Pro8, ( wich SmutBoy420 and Stroker0331 uses )
with a 7.5hp. Screw compressor, and a good air dryer and a 60gal. oxy.tank

this setup supply enough oxygen for me to RAGE my MIRAGE, i can even run 2 lynx and the Mirage at the same time.... 24hrs. a day if i want to..... so it supply enough for 3 workstation.

Stroker told me he can rage his Delta Elite as long as he want without any problem.....

total cost : 11,000$ (can$)... ( 5 year full warranty on the compressor, 2 on the generator )
maintenance : 130$ a year for the gen.... + maybe 50$ of oil change and filter on the compressor

also Electricity cost is pretty cheap up here in Quebec , about ~6¢ / kw/h
So.....
the setup pays for itself,... we are a Big Shop and still need Liquid oxygen depend on the contract, and the people workin in the shop... but 3 torch can at least be off that system...
When we are on a contract, shop running full like the last 2 months, the liquid still cost me about 2000$ + a MONTH, but i'll save at least another 700~800$ A MONTH just with the generator...

if theres just small contracts, or me and my brother, and friend playing on the torch, NO NEED TO BUY OXYGEN... the generator is there,

---

i dont know how those little box psyclon and hurrican and all that can supply enough oxygen, when i see the Size of the two tank Full of Zeolite needed to supply me oxygen......

some picture of the setup right here , at the end of the album : http://s596.photobucket.com/albums/tt47/pouceverre/

[styles1 torchlife]

I have a friend that has a k tank filling station. He says with rotating 8 k tanks it will supply him with all the oxy he needs running a bethleham barraccuda. but when you add in the oxy for his wifes, Carlisle cc he needs more tanks to create a surpluse. He paid $4,000 plus cost of k tanks. He also said the machine is running practically 24/7 wich equates to a hefty electric bill.

Also my friends father owns a medical oxy company, that provides generators/ fill machines. he had a little filler machine like the ones on the market. He said that about every year you will most likely have to rebuld it for around $700Because the machine will fill k tanks but isn't meant to. The process puts to much strain on these little machines.

overall I think if your going to shell out more than $2,500 The best way to go is an industrial generator.

Onsitegas.com These oxy generators are for fish hatcheries, and other industrial uses.

[HiAltitude]

Snake, get active noise-canceling headphones. I use the audio-technica quietpoint headphones. They're available on Amazon. They filter out most of the oxycon and overhead ventilation noise, but I can still hear the glass.

Seriously, my Extreme Oxygen Hurricane-wannabe makes so much noise and vibration that I put it a vibration absorbing pad and wear these headphones when I need to use it. Otherwise it would drive me crazy.

Lots of complaints about this knock-off oxycon and how it was not what I ordered. But they're the same complaints everyone else has, so no need to say it all again.

[n3rd]

i have a tank filling system, it was more than 4k. styles is correct that running it 24/7 will require more maintenance, it will also shorten the life of it. even with my expensive power ($0.26/kwh) it's still waaaaay cheaper than buying K's, it costs me around 4 bucks to generate 250CF. had the system almost a year now, lovin it!! its from OGSI btw.

[Samson]

I still say it's like putting a super charger and nos on a 4 cyl. and wishing for the best when it comes to these "super concentrators" ... From what I've read over the last couple years the ones that really chime in giving kudos are the ones who haven't ran tanked and don't really know the differance. I do know that TC glass up in Asheville is on a onsite generator thats around the $4k range and he's liking it ... he's on the GTT viper and delta ... I'm sure he's not liking it as much as liquid but he's happy for now so he told me a couple weeks ago.

[loydb]

I use a Psyclone to run the outer fire on my Phantom (Onyx+ that formerly ran my Lynx on the inner fire).

My only problem with the Psyclone is that the internal oxy hose regularly vibrates off of the barbs. I fixed it with two small hose clamps.

It doesn't have the on-demand 'umph' that tanked has, but the only time it's noticable is during tube pulls and marbles bigger than a couple of inches. Since nobody delivers oxy out here in the sticks, it works.

My goal this year is a Microboost.

[glassshack]

Aloha all, we bought 7 M-15 to run a cc and a national. At the time (2yr. ago) o2 cost $65 a k tank and was going to be $95. This was going to put my shop out of business. Looked around at the options and cost. Did'nt want to spen 10g or more on one machine, so we said fuck it, and put 5 on the cc and 2 on the national. It only puts out 15psi that cannot be adjusted, that took some getting use to. Kauai is about 30 cents per kilowatt, running all machines still cost me less than a $600-$900 a month in o2. It is a little different, but it has not set us back, it has only let fly more freely. Any probs that i have had, Jack has helped me every time with no cost. It saved my business!!!!! Right now we are running the cc on 6 units, and running pretty good, ofcourse i would like more psi. But as we go down this road with the people making these machines, lets remember to give thanks, and be nice so they continue to push for the future. We need them - they need us.

[Master Yoda]

Props glass shack, I'm assuming that you are in Hawaii, I would not want to be running an o2 gen in that kind of environment! Heat and humidity just kill the output on mine. Anyone have any luck using an AC or dehumidifier to help generator output?

[HiAltitude]

Right now we are running the cc on 6 units, and running pretty good, ofcourse i would like more psi. But as we go down this road with the people making these machines, lets remember to give thanks, and be nice so they continue to push for the future. We need them - they need us.

Fair enough. I am very thankful that the EO "Hurricane" actually works, despite the noise, vibration, and sometimes fumey smells. At normal operating temperatures, it runs a Carlisle Wildcat (midrange torch) with no breathing problems and a good flame for smallish pieces, including marbles up to about 2 inches, with lots of patience. Most of the time, I can get a workable oxidizing flame when I need it. It's not so good in mid-winter in the mountains, but at least I don't have humidity problems.

I would really like a reasonably priced oxycon or a tank refilling system that can run a cc. Something not too noisy, in consideration of both for my ears and my neighbors. Running 6 oxycons is just not an option for me, nor are really expensive systems or systems that require a lot of maintenance. Oh well. I don't ask for much, do I? :o:

[petto]

From going through this thread it appears as though when all is said and done the pro-8 from onsite with a screw compressor (or comparable system) is the way to go. I talked to a local here and he said they run 2 mirages all the time on a pro-8 with no problems. I am thinking of moving to Hawaii in a year or two and this is the route I will be going. It may cost 10G but I plan on blowing glass for a long time to come so it will pay off. Also plan to make a teaching studio set up with lynx so this will really be nice.