congress denies katrina relief. thas just wrong:

[carlsmarblesbeadsetc]

WELL I can say pres. bush wanted to send the 40 billion in relief aid to katrina aid but congress says no , huh , whats to say no to , send the relief money sigh. Anyhow whats your take on this. ???





Carl~~~ seeking out many opinions.!!!!

[nodge]

my take is that we have spent far too much money messing around in other country's businesses and fighting other peoples wars and now we have not only a lack of resources, but a lack of money when our own really need it.

mountainmama

[rumplephorskin]

We probably dont really have the 40 billion laying around and Bush prolly wanted to come out of this looking good. We all know his name so he probably said he wanted to do it so he would look good knowing all along that the anonymous faces of congress would vote it down whilst he looked like some great humanitarian or some crap. Well Bush, those guys in congress and the big business ceo's that have our govt in its pockets might get away with this crap for now; one day they will die and when they do... they will have to face their creator. Is it possible that Bush intentionally said a number that was far too large knowing that it wouldnt go through???? Hard to say. I'm not sure if theyd give it up even if it was just 40 million. There would have to be a lot more white people suffering i think.

[Mike_Aurelius]

Uh, where did you hear this? Congress has already approved $10B, Bush is asking for another $40B today, which is expected to be approved without discussion OR delay.

That's straight off all the major news services this morning.

[Udai Hussien]

thts what I read, along with a longtime relief of over $150 billion

[Roxy]

Hmmm let's see.....Bush asks for more money that he KNOWS he can't get so he can look good when the Congress says no. AND the Congress must therefore be so damn stupid as to not amend the dollar amount to something more reasonable. Cause we all know how politically expediant it would be to deny emergency disaster relief in our own country. AND of course the Senators and Representatives of the opposing party would not point out the the President is only trying to look good. AND the Congress can vote to shut down or severely limit military spending thus sending President Bush a strong message that he needs to pull the troops out and stop all that damn spending dammit! *pounds fist on table*

Some arguments are just plain silly. Not liking a President because he is not of your own politcal affliation is a tradition in America. However, taking it to an extreme only causes people to discount what you are saying. Because by following the old partisan way of thinking means this: for many people the President they did not vote for can NEVER do anything right.

Roxy

Roxy

[bc]

I think the no on 40 billion is a rumor. I have just watched the news an they said just what mike said. Let's hope that don't change.

[Dale M.]

Just remember no matter what happens, these people were elected by you....

Dale

[PyroChixRock]

Look at that girl go (Roxy) she's on a roll! Sure is nice to have you come out and play, Roxy babe. :D

[Bonz manifest]

the $40 billion will go through, as well as another $100 billion in the future. This $40B will only last like a month because the relief costs around a BILLION a DAY. unbelievable.... I'm sure they could've upgraded the levy system to handle such an event for a fraction of the cost, not to mention the cost of human lives.

[Greymatter Glass]

the $40 billion will go through, as well as another $100 billion in the future. This $40B will only last like a month because the relief costs around a BILLION a DAY. unbelievable.... I'm sure they could've upgraded the levy system to handle such an event for a fraction of the cost, not to mention the cost of human lives.


Oh, but don't you know...

"They didn't foresee this" "no one knew this could happen" this was "totally unexpecged"

Dontchya know!


*grumble*
Friggin unbelivable.

Can we get a vote of no confidence on both Brown (unelected, can we do that even?) and Bush? The locals also have questions to answer, but since i don't live in those states I can't really interfere with their politics.

As for another $40b I'm sure they could use it, but...2 things.... 1. Do we even HAVE $40b in cash available right now, what with all our resources being funneled to Iraq and other foreign projects. and 2) Should we let any relief bill pass regardless of how much pork is attached? That's what I really fear.... That opportunistic senators and reps will tack on all sorts of unrelated pork to any reliefe bill that gets put up.... i.e. congressmen/women adding on various packages that will divert monies into their states for unrelated pet projects.

I'm sure it will happen.

-Doug

[Udai Hussien]

Oh, but don't you know...

"They didn't foresee this" "no one knew this could happen" this was "totally unexpecged"

Dontchya know!


*grumble*
Friggin unbelivable.

Can we get a vote of no confidence on both Brown (unelected, can we do that even?) and Bush? The locals also have questions to answer, but since i don't live in those states I can't really interfere with their politics.

As for another $40b I'm sure they could use it, but...2 things.... 1. Do we even HAVE $40b in cash available right now, what with all our resources being funneled to Iraq and other foreign projects. and 2) Should we let any relief bill pass regardless of how much pork is attached? That's what I really fear.... That opportunistic senators and reps will tack on all sorts of unrelated pork to any reliefe bill that gets put up.... i.e. congressmen/women adding on various packages that will divert monies into their states for unrelated pet projects.

I'm sure it will happen.

-Doug

Dman doug, I never thought about that, I was rthinking that the senators would have compassion and look aganst pork, but I know thats a fairytail. I really should be more political, and pay more attention to current events

[Mike_Aurelius]

This is an interesting article: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9232666/site/newsweek/

[rumplephorskin]

well; i suppose that we will see the truth on this matter shortly. at least as far as the 40 billion goes. If the initial reaction time to the event is any indicator..... i think itll be a good long time before they rebuild the gumbo belt. Right now theyre getting ready to boot everyone out of there.

[fumalicious]

I think the $40 billion will happen without a fight... not only do the politicians have to worry about actually saving people/ rebuilding - they need to get re-elected!!!!! I just don't see too many senators standing up for fiscal conservation at a time like this... our political climate has been so "patriotized" (new word?) since 9/11 that the idea of not helping out "fellow Americans" in a severe time of need is just utterly political taboo.

[bc]

I'm sure our fucked up govt does have more cash than bill gates....

[Mike_Aurelius]

Hell, all they are going to do is print the money anyway...(shrugs)...our children and their children will end up paying for it.

[Roxy]

Couldn't have foreseen the events????? Well that is a flat out damn lie. The federal government has been working with state and local officials in the region since the late 1960s on major hurricane and flood relief efforts. But as long as we continue to look at the Federal government as one big tittie (can I say that here) to suck on then we won't be able to recognise the truth the facts represent. The federal government has been funding efforts to shore up levees and building pumping stations in N.O. to the Tune of $430 Million over the last 10 years. But at least $250 million in crucial projects remained, even as hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin increased dramatically and the levees surrounding New Orleans continued to subside. However if you do the math then N.O. would not have been ready for this storm even if the money had not dried up. Given the rate of inflation it would have taken at least 5 or more years to pay for the remaining work.

And to make matters worse there needed to be more research done on how to protect NO from a Cat 4 0r 5 sotrm even as the work was being done. We are just ignoring the truth of how all this works out on a year to year basis. Every year the levees sink and need constant shoring up. Research and work has been going on for decades and it is still not fixed. Wanna be pissed off then you better be mad at every President since the 60s because they have all known that there has been a problem with flooding in that region and that a really big storm would devastate the area with many lives lost.

Something is dead wrong when after 40 years of some kind of aid going to that region has not produced a solution to the problem of flooding. We are still paying for work that has been done there in the past and our kids will pay for the work being done today.

I don't have an answer for what has happened. But to simply say that the war is the problem is just an over simplification of a long standing problem. President Bush won't even be in office to see the work finished if IT EVER REALLY GETS FINISHED AND DONE RIGHT. Presidents apparently have inherited the problem.

Roxy

Our f'ed up country?? hmmmm try finding one better. If you do then why aren't you there? LOL

[glassissand]

And to make matters worse there needed to be more research done on how to protect NO from a Cat 4 0r 5 storm even as the work was being done. We are just ignoring the truth of how all this works out on a year to year basis. Every year the levees sink and need constant shoring up. Research and work has been going on for decades and it is still not fixed. Wanna be pissed off then you better be mad at every President since the 60s because they have all known that there has been a problem with flooding in that region and that a really big storm would devastate the area with many lives lost.

That is so true Roxy a few weeks before all this happened I had that very conversation. As someone who has frequented the Jazz city often it has always been a concern of mine and of people that live there. My biggest gripe is people blaming each other it is f'd up period so let's fix it so it doesn't happen again. Hopefully we'll still have some good music and culture left in the area when it's rebuilt. There are engineers working on this as we speak. What's done is done I don't dwell on the past if I did I'd be crazy by now.

[Dale M.]

Everybodu just cool down...

Congress pass a 51 BILLION dollar relief bill and the Pres. signed it...

What you hear is no always the truth....

Dale

[Joseph Corcoran]

The only truth I know is Bush should be impeached for all this.

[rumplephorskin]

""Our f'ed up country?? hmmmm try finding one better. If you do then why aren't you there? LOL""

It's not our country that's ""f'd"" up...... it's our government. This is by far the best country in the world. I love the people and couldnt imagine living anywhere else. And the war IS a major contributing factor to the state of chaos and upheaval that we as Americans are living through. We are wasting valuable financial and human resources on the other side of the world as opposed to taking care of our own. It is a sad state of affairs and the reality is that FEMA would have probably been WAY quicker to react to a situation involving rioting and social strife than they were to react to a natural disaster.
Roxy; I hope youre not banking on your social security money being there. I'm not trying to hijack this thread and get off of the subject. I apologize if it seems that way. But lets face it. Our money is being misspent at every turn and we are NOT fiscally solvent as a nation. That is not because of policies that we as a people voted for. It is because of the self serving policies of the old boys network that are implemented in order to keep 90% of the money in 10% of the peoples pockets.
I read yesterday that one of the big dogs in the GOP said that this flood situation was a good reason to suspend reforms to the medicaid program that were supposed to be written into law this month. In the meanwhile; the president is just coming off of an extended vacation. I know that a lot of members of the ""moral majority"" say that if we dont like the laws; we should vote to change them. The problem is that we as a people are not given a chance to vote on these laws. It may be time for a major reform in the voting process. We need to vote for laws instead of law makers. We have the technology to do this in an expediant manner. I think the first vote should be for cutting foreign aid and taking care of our own instead of going further into debt.

[glassissand]

Amen my brother's and sisters can I get one of those for my brother the reverend Rumplephorskin

[glassissand]

Bush getting bit in the ass and looking bad shouldn't have resulted in thousands dead. Hell look at watergate nobody died over that (at least on record).

[sevin dummerville]

another interesting article:

FEMA Planned to Leave New Orleans Poor Behind
by Jessica Azulay (bio)
Emergency management officials predicted with remarkable prescience the effects of a massive hurricane hitting New Orleans; but they did little with their knowledge, other than plan to leave the poor behind.


Sep 4 - Failing a test is one thing, but failing a test after you have been given the answers is another type of failure altogether – especially when half a million lives rely on your ability to pass.

Last summer, having identified a hurricane hitting New Orleans as one of the gravest potential disasters faced by the US public, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) staged a mock storm scenario and brought dozens of government agencies together for planning.

During the five-day exercise, FEMA envisioned that the fictitious category 3 "Hurricane Pam" slammed into New Orleans, deluging the area in enough water to top the levees and flood the city. Groups representing approximately 50 government agencies worked out action plans in July 2004 to deal with search and rescue, establishing shelters, debris clean-up, pumping water out of the city and even getting schools back up and running after the storm.

Though officials involved in the scenario acknowledged that tens of thousands of residents would be without the means to evacuate New Orleans in the absence of government help, the Hurricane Pam scenario teams did not determine strategies for evacuating people ahead of time. Instead, officials predicted that only one-third of the city’s residents would make it out in time and designed their response plan around that assumption.

At the end of the assessment, FEMA Regional Director Ron Castleman announced, "We made great progress this week in our preparedness efforts."

Officials also pledged that hurricane planning would continue. Colonel Michael L. Brown, deputy at the Louisiana Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, put it this way: "Over the next 60 days, we will polish the action plans developed during the Hurricane Pam exercise. We have also determined where to focus our efforts in the future."

It is apparent from the general action plan released after the Hurricane Pam exercise and interviews with the press at the time that over a year before Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans, local, state and federal agencies were aware of the challenges they would face if a storm flooded the city.

For instance, they anticipated that failure to completely evacuate the entire city ahead of the storm would pose deadly consequences for those left behind. They also predicted that tens of thousands of residents would not leave the city, even under a mandatory evacuation order, because they would lack transportation. And they foresaw that those who stayed and managed to survive the winds and the flooding would be without emergency relief for several days.

Brown said that even if the action plan played out perfectly, the government would not be able to respond to all of people’s needs in the event of a storm like the hypothetical Pam.

"Residents need to know they'll be on their own for several days in a situation like this," Brown said in a July 2004 interview with the New Orleans based Times Times-Picayune.

Though the Pam scenario plans did not address pre-emptive evacuation assistance, New Orleans officials told the Times-Picayune in July of this year that they would dedicate 64 city buses and 10 lift vans, as well as potentially school buses and Amtrak trains, to help people flee the city in the event of a serious hurricane threat. But they also acknowledged that would not meet the potential need.

According to the Louisiana Transit Resource Guide, a state-government website, New Orleans has 364 city buses in its fleet. Why officials did not plan to dedicate more buses to an evacuation effort was not explained to the Times-Picayune.

Instead, in July, public officials began videotaping messages for distribution by DVD warning residents to begin making their own advance plans for emergency evacuation in case of a hurricane. According to the Times-Picayune, the messages, which were to be released this September, informed New Orleans residents that they were to be largely responsible for their own safety.

"The primary message is that each person is primarily responsible for themselves, for their own family and friends," said Rev. Marshall Truehill in an interview with the Times-Picayune. Truehill heads Total Community Action, an anti-poverty organization orchestrating the videos.

The day before Hurricane Katrina stormed ashore, New Orleans Mayer Ray Nagin, in his mandatory evacuation order, granted city officials the authority to "commandeer any private property, including, but not limited to… vehicles that may be used to transport people out the area."

Despite this self-mandate, the city failed to actually provide a way out for those trapped with few resources and limited options.

© 2005 The NewStandard. See our reprint policy.

[Roxy]

Bush getting bit in the ass and looking bad shouldn't have resulted in thousands dead. Hell look at watergate nobody died over that (at least on record).

Comments like this help tp keep our country as it is. It seems so partisan and limiting that it is bound to provide those at blame an easy way of escape. But it is easier. After all if this nation could impeach (as one other person commented) Bush for this wouldn't it be convenient for those in the know to breathe a sigh of relief because they will have gotten away with one of the worst fubars of all time? In the meantime things won't change because they won't have to change. Without fairly assessing the problem which has been decades, if not a century, in the making then we can just clap our little hands gleefully because we have had our partisan hearts gladened with a blood bath. It is political sleight of hand.
All those bodies bloating in the sun, homes and businesses ruined beyone recognition, families tramatised by memories we can't imagine but PLEASE don't get to the bottom of the problem. Just zero on today so that we keep the old system of passing the buck in place. Wouldn't want a tragedy like this to disturb the system. Would we? :eek

Roxy

FYI My ex brother in law is cloe to N.O. waiting to haul a busload of people out of the area. He is one of hundreds of buses down there. So far he has driven one busfull of people out but otherwise has been sitting in hotel watching tv and being paid to do nothing. He has been there for over a week. But the reality is that people are not wanting to leave. Still in order to prove that there is a way out and to provide people with a way to leave all that money is being spent to keep those buses there. I am sure it won't last much longer before most of those buses are sent back to where they came. It just goes to show that we can only assume how people will react in a situation like this.

[harpentuan]

Supporters of GWB have less of an intellect than GWB.

A very obvious truth.