We need your opinions, please vote!

[PyroChixRock]

Do you think some type of vendor feedback system and/or identification (ie. badges) would be beneficial around here? Why or why not? Please be descriptive in our answers below, we need your input on how you think this would affect the forum and the way we currently do things here. Thanks! :D

[Firekist]

badges for vendors makes sense to me. they're here, representing their company. if they don't want to represent their company, they could have registered with an anonymous handle, and not talked about their affiliation.
i'm not sure i can think of a good reason not to do something like this. i think this could only be a bad thing for .. shady business people.

the feedback system works quite well on ebay, but it really does take some work to keep it .. honest. it might be a good idea, but it might be more work than it's worth. i'd say give it a try, and if it's a headache.. dump it.
a sticky thread, or a subforum with threads about/for distributors might work better than a simple number by a person's name (if ebay's system would be the model)

i like knowing that a person is affiliated with a company when they're posting... i'd like to see badges or whatever just for that alone.

forum on
----seth

[Primathon]

I like the idea, but I'm really undecided on the implementation. I can't think of a situation where more information wasn't a good thing. This should help everyone in the long run.

[Big Jay]

Misha I am sure you heard my opinion on this already.

I bought a product from a manufacturer on here because of their negative slant on a competeters product. Only problem is I didn't know he was the manufacturer until I had already purchased his product from a retailer.

Without a doubt hands down if your in the business of selling/manufacturing a product its only fair that the forum members are aware you have a vested interest in the information you are providing.

I thought I was making an informed discision by researching info on THEGLDG instead I got biased info. For the information contained in this website to hold its value it must be transparent. Where people do not have to constantly question if a guy promoting his gear is doing so cause its a good product or he stands to make money on you believing him.

[PyroChixRock]

Jay I can see you really want them to be identified. This is easy on our parts, so I can say yes to this part already. Now have you any thoughts on a feedback system...say a simple form like a satisfaction card you find in hotels and such. Something that wouldn't result in mudslinging, but lets buyers tell the community how their experience went with a certain vendor.

[Big Jay]

feedback system would be tough to keep legit. Like you hear people slam sundance someone could put up a negative post about it just cause they heard so and so say so. Holding forum users accountable for the feedback they provide is almost impossible. And there are the times where the customer isn't always right even though they think so.
I'd say a seperate folder with "share your retail experience" would an acceptable approach, but some people maybe fearful to share a negative encounter out of fear of burning bridges or reproccussions.
I also think most disputes should be a private matter. Even my 2 complaints on here I never disclosed the manufacturer or the retailer. Sorry Misha I wish I had a good idea on it.

[ech]

I think vendors should be identified so that we know who to ask when we have certain questions and so that we know who we they are if they are telling someone to buy a certain product. It seems ethical, and practical. Also there should be a vendor feedback forum so that when people have problems or have good experiences with vendors they can let us all know aand we can decide to patronize or avoide a particular vendor.

[PyroChixRock]

Even that is helpful, Jay. We haven't found a solution to this in the mod room though we've tried discussing it many times. Just too many negatives about the feedback end even if the feedback would be useful, but I can see a real need for the ID. I have a solution for that, and will be more than happy to implement it unless someone can give us a very good reason not to.

[Galaxie Glass]

Jay I can see you really want them to be identified. This is easy on our parts, so I can say yes to this part already. Now have you any thoughts on a feedback system...say a simple form like a satisfaction card you find in hotels and such. Something that wouldn't result in mudslinging, but lets buyers tell the community how their experience went with a certain vendor.


Misha...you got the concept down( badges reflecting the company) and their report cards for satisfaction of products , ect.
Just my .02 cents

[menty666]

The badge idea's kind of a nice idea but the problem is that there's nothing really keeping someone from setting up two accounts. One as Joe Vendor of Vendor Glass,who then gets a badge, and Ani Mous the Frenchman who then talks up Joe Vendor as a wonderful guy to deal with.

It's nice to know that someone chatting up a product may very well have an ulterior motive, but what about vendors that split their time using the products they sell? Is there advice on how to work a particular NorthStar color any less valuable just because they happen to sell it?

I hate to compare this forum to other ones, but I think LE may have it right where they have a subforum setup for kudos/gripes about vendors rather than a structured feedback system that requires people to maintain, a remediation process, increased policing to make sure it's not abused, etc.

There are plenty of posts out there where people may slam individual vendors for one reason or another, and many times if the harsh words are undeserved happy lampers chime in to provide their rebuttals.

Finally, I think there's a good possibility that the subforum might become biased towards negative information. No one ever complains about a job well done. While it's nice to think someone could post a little praise here and there, frankly it's not an unreasonable expectation of customer service to expect your order to be right and not broken. So unless there's something truly remarkable about the service (e.g. vendor paid for expedited delivery out of pocket for some odd reason) it's not likely to be mentioned. I mean, does anyone ever post about a vendor to say "hey, thanks for not f*cking up"?

[Batou]

to be able to know who to go to for a question about a product would be nice.

[Big Jay]

It's nice to know that someone chatting up a product may very well have an ulterior motive, but what about vendors that split their time using the products they sell? Is there advice on how to work a particular NorthStar color any less valuable just because they happen to sell it?


less valueable by no means. Cards on the table yes. If the vendor/investor/manufacturer 's affilations are transparent its less likely they will provide false/biased information because their company/product is tagged to every post they make.
It will just help serve to translate the information received from the forum in a more informed manner. Giving credit to alot of vendors on here they are not wolves in sheeps clothing.
Multiple accounts can also be tracked via IP addresses. And I believe they are against the forum rules for anyone so for a vendor to risk being shut down all together and a permanent black eye it just wouldn't be smart business to try.

[PyroChixRock]

Yes, no alter accounts are allowed and we do track them and get notified when someone logs in with the same ip as someone else.

I'm thinking we might want to go an only positive route. Shawn was telling me earlier there might be software we can buy that lets you rate vendors. So just like rep here, you get good rep points for being helpful. The more helpful you are the more rep points you get, but people don't take away rep points.

If this is possible, it would show who people really like and take the time to rep and would avoid negative problems for the most part. What do you guys think on this idea?

[Mike_Aurelius]

yabut...how many vendors ACTUALLY post here?

Myself, Henry occasionally, Smutboy maybe a couple more. All of us (for the most part) are the good guys (your mileage may vary)...And again for the most part, we are visible and transparent by our names.

Not sure what this will accomplish...

[Galaxie Glass]

Knowing who you deal with is important mike, you know that much.
And as we get Lots of newbies, it makes it easier for them to "avoid" potential problems asd so many of us have had in the past (kilns immediatly comes to mind). Not trying to be a dick , just my opinion.

[Meerkat]

Yes, no alter accounts are allowed and we do track them and get notified when someone logs in with the same ip as someone else.


I was going to say the same thing Menty did about 2 different accounts. And it is mega easy to have two different IPs. Such as someone who has a computer at work at then has a computer at home.

[EarthTones]

I voted undecided,but I'm kinda leaning twoards no because> Most of the people who are vendors here have their own little advertisements on their posts anyway so a badge isn't fully necassary & as far as feedback about vendors ,this can be helpful BUT if someone has one bad experience with a vendor they will probally blow it out of proportion & give the vendor a bad rep,when they are only human. For example Sundance gets tons of sh*t talked on them here & they are really not that bad,not first choice to most ,but not the worst place ever like they're made out to be. I don't think these are bad ideas & as a noob here I realize my input is minimal,but that's just my viewpoint as a forum user so either way is cool I guess,these things could definately have their advantages,hence my undecided vote.

[Brian Newman]

Menty - Shit catches more than honey does.

[PyroChixRock]

Earthtones, your voice is not minimal here just because you are new. you are heard loud and clear. ;)

[garrick]

i think the badges are a really good idea but the vendor feedback could be not so great, anyone who has worked somewhere where you deal with customers knows that some people you just cant make happy no matter what and i would hate to see somebodys business and ability to feed their families jeapordized on a national level because someone posted some horror story. not that people experiences should be censored, threads like the recent sundance thread are needed to keep some vendors on their toes. so they can step up their game and the thread basicly dies before long anyway. but i think it would be bad for stuff to be around right at the top of a page for good that gets looked at everyday by lots of people

[garrick]

and also i dont really know how to vote because there is not a choice that says yay to one and nay to the other.

[Big Jay]

yabut...how many vendors ACTUALLY post here?

Myself, Henry occasionally, Smutboy maybe a couple more. All of us (for the most part) are the good guys (your mileage may vary)...And again for the most part, we are visible and transparent by our names.

Not sure what this will accomplish...

how are you transparent? Maybe the folks who been around know what you do but I didn't myself find out tell this week.

EDIT= and smutboy flies a huge banner in his sig. Making it known exactly what he does. Hell when Cosmo mentions a knight torch he always includes the fact he sells them. See where I am going with that?

[menty666]

Ok, I'll refine my diatribe......

I think it is somewhat useful for the newest of new folks.
I like the badge idea.
I think we should have an empty sticky in the rating forum that says "Caveat Emptor"
Mike's right. Most of the vendors who do post on here on a regular basis ARE contributing members of the group and not just here to shill for their product. Mike, Smutty, and Henry are indeed good examples of this. And Mike, for his part, does an admirable job of resisting the urge to simply say "my product's better, the other one sucks" without backing it up.

Ok, flip my vote to yes.

[Mac Maestro]

I agree, Jay. "Mike Aurelius" and "Auralens" don't correlate easily unless you know. The need for ID is apparent in this case.

And there are LOTS of vendors on this board. I could name 20-30 off the top of my head. Keep the votes coming, folks.

[Glassroots]

I like the feedback system. I think it be similar to the news, the viewer has to use there own discretion on what is legitimate and makes sense compared what is BS. lets just try it and see what happens

[PyroChixRock]

and also i dont really know how to vote because there is not a choice that says yay to one and nay to the other.

I thought about that after I made the poll, but as long as you post telling me yes to id no to feedback the votes are still getting counted.

and all your ideas and comments are really helpful. thanks guys. keep the votes and discussion coming.

[Lurch]

I think a badge is a great idea. It would be nice for me (as well I assume others) to know who is a representative of what company. Yes it sucks if you have a bad experiance with a customer and they go bad mouthing your company. I think the moderators would do a good job keep feedback (in a forum) related to an experance and not just slander.

I for one would like to know who is selling what. I know there are specific products that I am interested in and it would be nice to know who to commuincate with about said products. I did not know Mike was with Auralens. Thats great! I have a few questions about eyeware... but thats for another time.
There are other products as well.

There are plusses for the vendors to be identifed. Yes you have to face bad feedback, but I bet in the long run it will only benefit your business.

[NUBBLET]

I like both Id and feedback .
ID for the fact that , it may be nice to know , your product advice , came from a vendor , who may or may not have biased sp? opinions .
Feedback , for the reason that it may stop that reoccurring thread about those crappy handtools . It may stop a few "repeat" threads , if your could check out what others say about their exp with a certain vendor , or the quality of certain products even the where do I get ... threads .


I will note I do foresee the whole slander issue being in the mix . Maybe the TOS should forbid slander in anyway . Not saying no neg feedback , just a simple when the product got here there was a chip out of the corner , they wouldnt take it back or send a replacement , so I will never shop there again . Then allow said vendor (if they post /or lurk here) to explain (not give bs excuses) as to why or why not or just what happened ...... BUT NO BACK AND FORTH YADA YADA CRAP . Some vendors may even like the chance to explain for the 1 in 100 mishaps or miscommunications that occur , maybe even offer a compromise if policy gets in the way of them making it right say discounts or an extra this next time or..... It may get that paticular customer back , or even a new one that enjoys the fact a vendor will do what it takes to make them happy .

[JANKYglass]

i say all known vendors get a vendor badge.

and if they feel there reputable they can apply for a verified or preffered vendor badge based on feedback or prestablished reputation within the community.

that way if a vendor dont want to be rated then they dont have to be.and that takes care of the slander issue.

but why wouldnt you want to be rated?

[wildrokproductions]

I'm thinking we might want to go an only positive route. Shawn was telling me earlier there might be software we can buy that lets you rate vendors. So just like rep here, you get good rep points for being helpful. The more helpful you are the more rep points you get, but people don't take away rep points.

If this is possible, it would show who people really like and take the time to rep and would avoid negative problems for the most part. What do you guys think on this idea?

Good idea. Why not just have it set up like rep points. Keep it positive, and let people know who the perfered suppliers are.
Maybe then some co's will step it up,when there sales start dropping....

[Alfred]

I vote No,I don't think we need to rate vendors,I believe y'all are opening a HUGE can of worms here with this idea.Slander can be an actionable offense.I think most of the vendors here are fairly easily identified,to those that didn't know Mike is with Auralens:


Home Page:
http://www.auralens.net
Email:
Send a message via email to MikeAurelius
Private Message:
Send a private message to MikeAurelius

Most other vendors have something similar in either their profile or their signature.Not to mention you can learn a lot by reading their posts,and the threads they post in.I'm finding that recently it seems that many don't do their homework here ( ie.READING,UTFSE) before posting(I'm guilty too),I don't think this needs to be encouraged.Here's a recent example of what I'm talking about by people not doing their homework:


I can't seem to figure out how those people get the colors in the inside of the glass.. Is it a trick where they draw on the out side and draw clear 10 mm over it? or what? I'm gonna pull my hair out trying to figure out this outstanding design.. thanks
__________________
Adam G

My Glasspipes page
My Glassartists page

"That's way too much gold"
- Rigles (http://www.thegldg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16892)

Optional vendor badges sounds good ,but I don't think rating vendors is a good idea.

[wildrokproductions]

^^^^ Huh?
Suppliers should realize that their reputation is at stake, with every order they send out... Just like an artist....
but that probly makes too much sense for some people to understand...

[menty666]

My concern about vendor, preferred vendor, has a direct link to my bank account vendor would be that it's unfair to new vendors.

Take these two as a semi-random example...
Say for example Kristian (generations glass) has a glowing gold badge of uber honor. Erik (Vapor glass) has just a normal badge because he's been in business for less time and hasn't gotten mad ratings. Erik hasn't necessarily screwed up, he doesn't carry an inferior product, his prices are fine, but he just hasn't been around as long. Two newbies enter and want to pick a supplier. Well Erik's badge isn't as shiny, so he doesn't get the business.

Vendor badge for ID, cool. Stepped vendor badges for ID AND based on consumer happiness.....good for the uninformed, but not as fair for the vendor.

[wildrokproductions]

who cares whats fair to the vendor... Its our $$$, and its about time vendors earned their living... If they want the business,they'll do what they got to do EARN favor here. If not,then starve..... or find another group of vic's

[Drolken]

Hmm ok

Badges are cool; say Blue ones for those that support the forms with ads or what not and red ones that don’t support the forms.

I’ll try and make this short.

Feedback would be a night mare! Now e-bay has it setup so only peeps that buy something from that vendor can post on their feedback. I don’t see how we can set anything like that up here. Who’s to say they did or didn’t buy anything we have no tracking system for payment and shipments and dates and e-mails tracking.

Does the vendor get the same ability to leave feedback on the buyer? Just like e-bay? Fair is fair!

Who’s going to be the person to judge over any disputes? Who’s going to be the person to get all the forwarded e-mails and proof of payment or lack of payments from both sides to determine if the negative post for them is fair or should be removed just like on e-bay?

Badges Yes!
Feedback NO!

P. s.
Let’s have the Blue Badges link up there e-bay feed back in there sig and have their company name there also linked to their page. That way e-bay does all the work for us.

[ech]

Perhaps instead of a feedback forum we can have an ongoing rating system where the vendor is rated on a 1-10 system on certain key points such as service, packaging, turn over, number of back orders, etc..
Make it so that an IP address can only rate a vendor once on one point that way a disgruntled customer can't just sabotage a vendors rep maliciousely.

It burns my ass everytime I meet a newbie who called Sundance and told them they wanted to make pipes and they talked them into buying $4000 worth of useless bead making crap.

[pacosaki]

I didn't read all the posts above so forgive if someone already said this. My idea for a feedback system would be to have a sub forum with each registered vendor / supplier listed with a poll in the thread. Custies could vote on the poll for 5 levels of satisfaction from Seriously Unsatisfied to Unsatisfied to Neutral to Satisfied to Customer Service led to Orgasm.....well, maybe just Seriously Satisfied would do.
Custies could vote once a month based on the performance of the supplier.
If possible set it so the results of the poll show as default so a quick glance at the Supplier's thread will give you an idea of their level of customer service and satisfaction. Then, after you have a month of transactions with a supplier, you can vote again based on your overall experience.
All these companies are in business and stay in business. That would not happen if every transaction was a disaster for the customer. Once in a while, you are gonna get a deal gone wrong. Doesn't mean the store sucks. Just like once in a while you might get in an accident while driving. That doesn't mean you should loose your license, or that you are a bad driver. Overall, the suppliers do a good job, just like over all you can drive from point A to point B without wrinkling up your car or someone else's. I think it is natural to want to vent frustration and this would allow that, but it would also allow for positive feedback as well.
........for what it's worth.......

[ShttrdSpctrm]

I voted yes, I think people should be informed.

[Mecha]

Short answer, yes on ID badges for vendors, no on a feedback system.

I think that a sub forum for vendor experiences would be best. Someone earlier had mentioned that it could be like the one on LE. That is probably the most fair. Specific gripes could be addressed by the vendor if they want to.

I see a feedback system being railroaded by extreme bias against particular vendors. Case in point, ABR would probably receive a bunch of undeserved negative feedback for perceived ethical problems (like importing pipes and distributing them, or the recent oxygen generator label cover up debacle). Whereas these things make me questions Ross's business ethics, they still do not change the fact that I have received excellent customer service from ABR several times in the past without a single hiccup. Also, someone else mentioned earlier that some people are IMPOSSIBLE to please. They expect way more than they deserve and are never satisfied. A lot of us are in business for ourselves, and I am sure that most of us have dealt with "that asshole customer" at least one or two times. When I first got into business for my self, my Grandfather told me to remember that the customer is NOT always right.

[earlbacher]

badges are a great idea... and i think some limited form of feedback would be helpful....
i figure if you have an issue with a company, you try and work it out first before ranting about it online... and if you have a real issue, and need to respond with negative feedback, you should back it up with a valid reason behind the negative feedback... i know i'm not gonna go and say such and such company sucks without backing up such a claim, thats as bad as a company repeatedly screwing over customers, thats just bad business...

so i choose to be informed, on both accounts, but that's just because i dont know what all you fine artist know, yet...

[Swampy]

Took me two days to think about it (don't usually think that quick heh) but I decided no.

Reason being, if I need a particular item I'd rather put a question out for it and I know someone will chirp up with the answer. If I reply with yeah but this one does it cheaper and closer, someone else will tell me why or why not.

So I go by word of mouth from someone I trust in the crowd rather than a point system. I always found that word of mouth was the best recommendation but that's just me, right.

[Big Jay]

what about the ID system swampy?

[smutboy420]

Feed back would be great in a way. But feed back can be tained.
Id is a great Idea as far as when someone is posting Some thing for sale some one can know its a real place or Co they are dealing with and not aome jerk off pirate trying to hit and run.

But scum bag loosers with bad feed back from them being shady and having a bad rap, Could try to make it out that The board is playing favrites, if there were only a few true high feed back venders.

I had some one who is a member hear at my place one time while I was getting some orders ready to go out. and he seen a big pile of pedals and controllers ready to go out. Started talking shit like wow you could make a few grand easy just by taking a few orders from the borard and keeping the $.

I was like ya that would be real smart and last long. His responce was how the mods love me and I Could just throw the queen bee a cut of the $.

And he had the atatude I'm stupid to make part of the $ from each Item I sell when I can get it all and run.

So because he sees I have good standing with some peep here He thinks its must be cause the modes get something out of it.

Some loosers like that might even look toward someone with a vender badge as someon like them selves.

[Glassroots]

I would like to voice my opinion again. news is news, it doesn't make it fact. VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED! You read feedback, you interpret it, you decide whether it is valid or not and you base your decision/your vote/ your dollar upon that.

If you are truly concerned of the integrity of a business you look into to it based on an average of ratings before buying the product ....JUST LIKE EBAY!

If you don't base your decision on feedback and then get screwed, NOW YOU CARE cause you got screwed.

My point? look at the feedback(like ebay) if a bunch of different posters say this company sucks because of blah blah blah. well......... if it smells like sh!t and taste like sh!t, then it probably is!

No to badges, I don't see the point, yes to feedback! any hateful bashing of a business will be obvious and based on an average we will know whether its a fluke or a regular occurrence.

[Big Jay]

Misha I was thinking we could set the sub folders up just for product review. Like the torch room gets so cluttered with other questions its hard to just look at torch reviews. I was also thinking folders for tools, torches, etc and then sub folders for the different manu's. But staff as the only ones to set up the topics so we don't get repeats and put public poll on each topic.
so the tree would be like this

(periods are there to maintain margins)

....product reviews-->
..............................Torches ---------> GTT-------------------> lnyx
..............................Hand tools............Nortel..........................p hantom
..............................whatever............ ..Herbert Arnold..............mirage
..............................whatever............ ..etc...............................etc
..............................etc................. ......etc...............................etc

so we end up now with only one topic on each individual item.Poll's to be simple "I have purchased/used this product(s) and recomend it" , "I have purchased/used this product(s) and wouldn't recomend it" .
I don't think product review of actual glass will work do to the overwhelming nature of selections out there and we should just leave that in color talk. I also think some manu's list of items are entirely too big to have a subfolder for every product so they would have to be condensed. Like AIM kilns could be just top loaders, front loaders and guillatine style. Just thinking out loud. If you want me to set it up for a trial run let me know. You know I'll be happy to do the work and police it so its just reviews, not banter back and forth.

[Ninja fire]

Kinda like ebay, huh ? I think it's a good idea ...

[PyroChixRock]

thanks for all the help and comments guys. I'll get back to you shortly with our decision on both matters. :blowkiss:

[Merlin]

Badges- yes
feedback- I like the idea of an ongoing thread containing posts regarding experiences with vendors, and discussions pertaining to vendors.

[blackstoneglass]

i like the idea for badges for vendors but i am not so into the point system. I think that the glass scene can be really clique like and if your not part of someones clique than your not going to get the feedback or if you are part of it than you will get the pos feedback weather it is waranted or not. I think the vendor tag will let people know what their motives are and if they are shady Im sure people will chime in on a thread about their shadyness...just my 2 cents for what its worth

[yinzer]

if feedback could be done properly, i would love it. we just made a rather large order from a company we dont deal with much and i was completely disappointed.
we actually made two large orders from 2 companies. one we normally order from, and one we thought was cheaper. both places in the same state. order A was placed before order B. order B showed up 2 days earlier than order A. order A ended up being like $200+ more than we thought due to discounts that were not thoroughly explained or had limitations not thoroughly explained. order A (over $1000) showed up in a plain box without even so much as a fragile sticker on it. open the box to find we paid first quality price for what looks like odds of a few of the colors, and the rest is dirty. not just dirty dirty, but the sticky scuzzy dirty that you gotta scrub off. so i just gave some ass a whole bunch of money to send me like 30lbs of color that i have to scrub. Order B said glass all over the box, so that UPS (who dropped it and broke everything anyways) would know to be careful with it.
turns out we would have saved money just staying with our normal place as their discounts make sense and they are way friendlier, faster, cautious, and good enough packers that ups will take full blame without wasting time to figure out whos fault it was.
these kind of things would be good to know.

[slave]

you can look up raitings, for customer support, knowlege of merchandise, on a lot of non glass related stores. i think this may encorage more price compation but good customer support and locality and knowlege are sometimes worth a lot more then we pay for them.

i think this could also possibly be good for our communities economy

[Greymatter Glass]

I have no opinion one way or another.

I think Vendors should, at the very least, have to support the forum financially if they're going to sell here. I'll promise you this Misha, if I get any big sales through contacts on the forum I'll kick down a percentage.

I think vendors should consider an annual $20-50 donation to the forum as just another cost of operating their business. it's marketing.

-Doug

[Mecha]

I think vendors should consider an annual $20-50 donation to the forum as just another cost of operating their business. it's marketing.

-Doug

Great point. Regardless if a feedback system is ever setup, a donation is definitely in order.