True midevil glass blowing products ???

[Meerkat]

So there is this huge mid-evil festival coming up, I'd really like to attend because it could probably be good sales. Only problem is after reading their website these guys are really hardcore about being as authentic as possible. They are cool with modern day tools being used to produce stuff (but not where people at the festival can see), so that means no torch, which I am fine with.

But they don't want anything that didn't exist around that time, like even if you do art of dragons it has to be mid-evil style dragons, not lord of the rings dragons and no witches or wizards, nothing goth, nothing fantasy, etc...

So I am scratching my head as to what to make. Obviously glass bowing has been around even before mid-evil times, but what kind of stuff was made, what styles, etc.... any ideas ?

[jusbag]

I bet pipes were popular in midevil days.

I used to go to the Rendezvous (mountain man deal). There was usually a bead maker there. As beads have been around forever, used for currency even.

[somberbear]

and roman vessels and heavy cups etc.... is what i see ... check out contemp lampworking see what it has to say

[Alfred]

From what I see most folks at the Renaissance Fairs concentrate on murrini beads.Here's a few links to some SCA(Society for Creative Anachronism) sites.

[SCA-AS] Links: Historical Lampwork Beads (http://lists.gallowglass.org/pipermail/artssciences/2003-November/000219.html)

A&S Links SCA (http://www.caergalen.org/AandSLinks.html)

and:
The Main SCA site (http://www.sca.org/)

Hope that helps.

BTW it's "Medieval":D

[Meerkat]

I have a book from the British museum called "5000 years of Glass" but all the glass it shows for around that time period is large vessels like wine jugs and bowls, things I wouldn't be able to make on a torch.

Jusbag, were you joking or being serious about pipes ? Because now that I think about it people did smoke back then, although it was more likely they smoked out of wood or bone pipes (I assume).

I'll check out the SCA sites....

[jusbag]

Yeah I'm serious. As long as they would allow it. I know people have sold pipes at Pow-wows around here also. I would agree that they probably would not be authentic. But you could maybe make an antler style pipe out of glass. Glass powderhorns might go as well.

[mer]

i know there was a lot of stained glass made during that time period. i also found you some good history of medieval glass here;
http://www.luzicke-hory.cz/historie/index.php?pg=clskloe
http://www.sacred-destinations.com/sacred-sites/medieval-stained-glass.htm

peace, m

[Meerkat]

Yeah I'm serious. As long as they would allow it. I know people have sold pipes at Pow-wows around here also. I would agree that they probably would not be authentic. But you could maybe make an antler style pipe out of glass. Glass powderhorns might go as well.

It can't hurt for me to try submitting pipes, I'd like to learn how to do a gandalf anyway, but these guys are super into being authentic, they even are freaky about how you display your stuff making sure its an authentic type stall, authentic displays, no writing as hardly anyone could read back then, you have to wear a costume, etc.....

They have a whole separate website just for teaching you how to get your booth to look right.

http://www.abbeystalls.com/

The good thing about this though is that it means I wouldn't have any competition from the typical booth full of import crap.

I was thinking that maybe something like "crystal balls" would be sellable, as that wouldn't be fantasy, as there had to be gypsy's and psychics and such back then who did the whole 'contact the spirit world for money" schtick back then, no ? Or was this an era of extreme christianity and such heretics and witches were burned at the steak ???

[UmaJulz]

they sell pipes (one hitters, bats, etc. ) at the Ren-fest around here.

Beads are actually an authentic glass item- lot's of stacked and masked dots. Warring states style too.

[Swampy]

What a great concept, that sounds like a lot of fun to join in.

[Alfred]

Here's a link for costumes etc.:

http://www.museumreplicas.com/museumreplicas/

And the Australian SCA site:

http://www.sca.org.au/lochac/

[menty666]

Why no torch? I'm not sure where you'd find one, but if you could safely stash the line for the propane, it might work to do satake beads since you could rig up a foot bellows to help provide the air stream. Heck, if you're looking for that filthy days of yore look, use MAPP instead :-) Lampwork took place well before the days of Guinevere so you may be able to pull it off yet. It may just turn into an interesting research project for you in the mean time.

Definitely beads would be a good way to go since they're easy enough to put down in a hurry if you need to chat up a friendly serving wench. Maybe do some crystal ball amulets with dragon claw accents? Or small bottles to hold ____ to ward off the spirits that cause the plague? Small talisman amulets that you impress religious symbols (or runes) could be good too. Bobby over on LE just did a fantastic tutorial on brass stamps that you could likely get away with. Provided you use wood instead of fimo like he did :D

Oh, buttons. Buttons would be good to do. Simple disc with the glass shank on the back. Umm....glass eyes?

[smutboy420]

Din't R. Mickelson Make or help some one else make a volcano lamp like an oil whale oil one or some thing like that?

BUt that would work for soft glass and would be in the time theme thing I think.

[menty666]

how about candle stick holders?

[Meerkat]

Its all about finding out what actually existed then, for example, candle stick holders may have only been made out of metal.

I'll have to do some research on what the primary ways tobacco and cannabis were smoked back then. I doubt they had bats and one-hitters though :)

[Suz]

So there is this huge mid-evil festival coming up, I'd really like to attend because it could probably be good sales. Only problem is after reading their website these guys are really hardcore about being as authentic as possible. They are cool with modern day tools being used to produce stuff (but not where people at the festival can see), so that means no torch, which I am fine with.

But they don't want anything that didn't exist around that time, like even if you do art of dragons it has to be mid-evil style dragons, not lord of the rings dragons and no witches or wizards, nothing goth, nothing fantasy, etc...

So I am scratching my head as to what to make. Obviously glass bowing has been around even before mid-evil times, but what kind of stuff was made, what styles, etc.... any ideas ?

There are quite a few reference sites listed on my links page on my website, and some documents on the SCA page. But I mainly focus on beads.

When I was travelling in europe last year, I saw some wonderful drinking horns in blown glass. I'll post a pic here when I get home from work and can find the image. Glassware was also popular (ie wine goblets etc).

One of the problems for you may be the medieval period itself. While glass items have been around since 3000BC, the reenactors are most probably only interested in roughly 600-1600Ad, and that was not on of the boom years for glass. Things like warring states beads are way too early for really strict medieval reenactors.

Roman was the closest authentic period that had really high quality blown and wound items, so checking out roman glass would be a good idea. Its close enough that items could still be passed down in medieval times, plus the roman empire lingered in some areas for a long time. The height of italian glass didnt really start till after the medieval period.

Another interesting glass item I saw in the museum from medieval times was glass swizzle sticks. Yep, really :) Just twisted rods of glass with a loop on the end, for stirring drinks. Ill post a pic of those as well.

Ill have a look for some more resources when I get home tonight.

[Suz]

I was thinking that maybe something like "crystal balls" would be sellable, as that wouldn't be fantasy, as there had to be gypsy's and psychics and such back then who did the whole 'contact the spirit world for money" schtick back then, no ? Or was this an era of extreme christianity and such heretics and witches were burned at the steak ???
yes, I dont think they are likely to be authentic items at all.

[Suz]

ok, the first 3 images are from the British Museum. They are from vaguely around the right era, not exact though. The vessels are 4th century Roman, from Rhineland. The glass stirring rod is 2nd century roman, from egypt and the drinking horn (isnt it gorgeous) is 6th-7th century Lombardic, from Italy.

The next images are all from the louvre, and the labels are in french (and I havent had them translated yet), but Im assuming I wouldnt have photographed them if they werent vaguely medieval period. I have included the one item with a clear label, in case anyone here speaks french - I'm not sure what it is, but the date is ok - very late medieval.

[NUBBLET]

RUPERTS DROP ! They were around back then and used as gags and such , very cool little things . Just melt some soft and let it drip into a container of water , it will kinda look like a sperm . You can smack them and they wont break ( smack with hammer , hammer bounces back ) , but if you snap the little tail ,POP sound and it shatters to sand pepples .

[Alfred]

Works for boro too.

[menty666]

Doesn't it also create a respiratory hazard that can then get you sued? I'm just sayin....

[tilman]

i would say that if you are going to be midevil period authentic then you cant make anything out of boro and propably nothing made at a torch. i would also say that midevil glass blowers propably worked from a pot of glass. even making beads, the glass would be taken from a pot. maybe wrapped on a clay coated stick or rod or made into hollow tube cane and cut up and ground away like a real chevron bead. there might have been lampworking at the time but i think you would need to learn how work an oil lamp and bellows and use hand pulled hand made glass from a pot. i could have no idea what im talking about but thats just the way i see it. just gonna have to do your homework i guess.

[Suz]

i would say that if you are going to be midevil period authentic then you cant make anything out of boro and propably nothing made at a torch. i would also say that midevil glass blowers propably worked from a pot of glass. even making beads, the glass would be taken from a pot. maybe wrapped on a clay coated stick or rod or made into hollow tube cane and cut up and ground away like a real chevron bead. there might have been lampworking at the time but i think you would need to learn how work an oil lamp and bellows and use hand pulled hand made glass from a pot. i could have no idea what im talking about but thats just the way i see it. just gonna have to do your homework i guess.
he has already stated that they dont mind how they were made, only that he cant demo on a modern torch, at least thats how I understand it. I have lots of info on period techniques, but that doesnt seem to be what he was after. Incidentally though, they did not work from a pot of glass, but from chunks. Mandrels, depending on which period, could either be ceramic coated metal, a green twig that was burnt out afterwards (and the bead had to be made FAST) or copper wire that was etched out afterwards.

[Meerkat]

Suz, thanks for all the pics and info.... I take it your really into the whole SCA thing, eh ?

Your right in your last post that it doesn't matter if the items were made with modern methods just as long as I am not demonstrating, which I am not.

I find the drinking horn most interesting, of all that you showed, and think that might be the kind of thing that is most sellable. Do you know how those things were usually kept ? Such as were they always on a table, in some sort of a holder to keep them upright so they didn't spill, or did they wear them around their waist, on say a little leather strap, so they could carry liquid around and perhaps the horn was plugged with a cork or something similar ?

Would there have been perfume bottles then ?

Thanks again,

Meerkat

[Suz]

Viking drinking horns (made from actual horn) can be hung from a little leather loop on your belt. We also use stands to put them on the table. Something shaped roughly like an omega sign, where the horn part fits through the circle, and then the two legs, combined with the body of the horn, make a rough btripod so it stands up. They can be metal or wood, and arent very complicated to make.

yes, Im into the SCA, and my specific area of interest is period beadmaking - thats what I demonstrate/sell/write documentation for.

The horn I showed was the first one Ive seen that definitely wasnt viking - I think the vessels I showed in the group picture, (maybe some of the smaller ones were for perfume?) were probably roman, by the look of the faces in the side of some of them....

[NUBBLET]

The label basically says it is a mosaic piece with a Zanfirico (Filigrana a retortoli) design of (Lattimo) milk white strands of glass , a latti with just white intricatly spun to form a "net" like pattern . It also says 1856

The one above it is a Zanfirico design , alternating bands of latti

I hav e never got the Ruperts Drop (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Pdy2_vi0FfM) to work in boro , I sliced my finger trying . I dont think it would create a resp hazard , it does not powder it just small grains . Maybe if it were popped close to the face or the grains thrown or blown in the face , but I think it is heavy enough to fall .

[Alfred]

Thanks for the translation!


Venise,XVI seicle

Venice,14 century?


Don Charles Sauvegeot, 1856

Donor and Donation date?

Did the drop with a piece of 5mm rod,gotta rage the torch so ya don't get stringer.(CC inner fire, loud)

[mer]

16th c.

[Alfred]

oops

[Suz]

16th c.
yep, thats what I thought. Couldnt read the french, but I do know my roman numerals :) Glad I didnt steer you so far wrong that I put something up from the 19th century! :twitch:

[Meerkat]

Just on a side note, if you ever want something translated there are tons of translation websites where you just cut and paste or type in your foreign text and it converts it to any language you want. It works great, I actually have MSN conversations with this friend in Germany, in German and I don't know a word of German.

Just google "language translation" or such...

[NUBBLET]

Thanks Mer . Here is what Babel translated : decor constitutes filigrees (retorti has) on a bottom mosaic glass cristallo, glass latimo, coloured glasses, money .

I just went on old high school french , and some basic terminology knowledge . Close enough , but not money . ;)

[Big Jay]

So writing wasn't common but writing instruments were available no? What about making glass pens and inkwells?

[Suz]

It's possible that glass pens may be period, but I havent seen any documentation. I think, however, its the sort of debatable item that they might accept at the event, rather than one they would not like. Calligraphy and illumination is a big medieval re-enactor interest, so something that provides for that interest, without looking ostensibly modern, may well be ok.

[Big Jay]

Would the correct term for the those "pens" be scribes? I have referred to them a few times to other people as pens and they didn't quite understand what I was saying. What other materials could they have been made out of?

[Suz]

well, traditionally they would use a quill - so made from a goose feather, or something similair. Im not sure when they started using manmade objects as pens. Maybe you could try using the term glass quill - its descriptive, if not accurate.

[Suz]

Hmmm this site says that manmade pen nibs werent invented till early 1800's... but they dont mention glass.... http://www.rickconner.net/penspotters/history.html

There is some interesting history about medieval glassmaking here http://www.vetrina.co.uk/page.html?id=25 but it doesnt say a lot about what was specifically produced...

[NUBBLET]

So what happened , what did you do or show ?
Has it happened yet ?
WHAT GIVES ALL THIS HYPE AND THEN JUST POOF B GONE

[Meerkat]

The show is still a long ways off, I dont even know if I will have a booth at it as they are really serious that your booth design and even the costume you wear is period accurate and to be honest I am just not into the whole SCA thing.

[Brian Newman]

Just on a side note, if you ever want something translated there are tons of translation websites where you just cut and paste or type in your foreign text and it converts it to any language you want. It works great, I actually have MSN conversations with this friend in Germany, in German and I don't know a word of German.

Just google "language translation" or such...

I think google has a translator program. Sook-yin Lee on CBC radio has a contest called "Lost in translation", where they take the lyrics to a well known song, and "feed it into the google translator" (her choice of words) and run it through 2 or three languages before going back to English. People try to guess what the original song was.

[newmexicomagma]

make weapons.

[newmexicomagma]

heres a weapon i made recently. tried to post the pic in last one but it didnt work.