need help with photographing

[d-mitchell]

i cant find the mickelson post on photographing your work.....i made the box exactly how he said.....but im still getting a really bad glare....actually worse than when i just used my flash....are you supposed to put the light right up against the sides?

also was wondering about the setting and shutter speed....the color isnt coming out true....if someone could help me with these questions id be stoked....otherwise can someone please direct me to that post from mr mickelson

[skip]

yo darin whats up bro.

You making it up for GAS????

I have seen a few great links to photo set up tutorials but can't find them right now blah...

[mer]

i'm not sure that that post was on this board. i just went through all of his posts because i'm working on the same problem. it sounds like you've made a light box of some sort, that at least makes better reflections than a flash for me. if you look at mickelson's page you'll see that his work has reflections too. i can't find anybody's work that has no glare at all. in a way i think a little glare is acceptable because it shows the "wet" appearance of the glass which is one of the coolest things about glass in my opinion.

as for the hue of the lighting i'm having the best luck so far taking the whole light cube outside. it gets the yellow hues out completely. also, i just got a book that was recommended to me by another board member on studio lighting called "Light-Science & Magic" by hunter and fuqua. it has a ton of info but it's mostly based around higher end studio equipment. it does have a lot of good info about the angles of the light and camera to the subject.

the strangest tip i got was from bob snodgrass who told me that you get no reflection at all if you shoot your subject matter underwater (like in a fishtank).

i'll be posting the newer outside pics on my GA gallery soon but if you pm me i'll show you the improvement that i found.

bon chance, m

[barefoot stash]

The first time I went to the local photo store and said told them that I was trying to photograph glass, he told me that that was a whole semester in school. I'm sure you can google and find loads of info on this topic. Here are a few quick tips.

1. If you haven't go digital...makes it WAY easier
2. You have to diffuse your lighting.
-google DIY lightbox, they aren't that hard to rig however you'll quickly want to buy a pro set.

3. Use a polarizing filter to minimize glare. You should be able to spin it to adjust for the differnt angles.

4. Background is all about depth of field. The larger your piece the farther back your background needs to be. You can buy large rolls of grey backgrond paper from the photostore. Get your self a 6 foot table and rig up the roll with a broomstick and some rope to the ceiling at one end of the table. Then roll out the paper in a gentle arc and tape it to the table. Becareful not to crease the paper. Place you piece on towards the front of the table and focus your soft lighting on it. This should also create a horizon line on your background which will translate into a gradient from grey to black in the background. Turn off the ambient room lighting. Take a few snaps and then adjust your lighting.

5. You can also experiment with f-stop however most digital cameras today are pretty good using the automatic settings.

[szglassy]

If you go on to lampwork etc. There is a Q&A section dedicated to photography and some under tutorials.

Many people have questions regarding light boxes, lights, digital photos, photoshop, backrounds, macro settings,etc.. It is very helpful because trying it on your own without any guidance can be really frustrating.

[Robert Mickelsen]

Briefly, white balance is a function of the temperature of the light source. Sunlight is considered to be absolutely white at 50000 degrees kelvin. Photofloods are about 3600 kelvin so they will appear yellow or even orange if filters are not used to re-balance the light. Digital cameras to this really nicely with the white balance feature. Simply set if for incandescent to get true colors.

Use diffuse light at all times. You will still get some specular hightlights, but they will be much softer and easier to control than using undiffused light. Using sunlight outside in a tent will give you very diffuse, even, white light, but it can be very flat and uninteresting.

For static subjects, shutter speed does not matter. F-stop does, however since that determines your depth of focus. So you should set your F-stop to give you the focal depth you need and let the shutter speed vary as needed.

You do not specify what your background is. Glare can be the result of many things. I need more information to advise you here.

Every subject requires a different setup. To some extent, it is like your glass technical vocabulary. You have to develop a photographic vocabulary too, adding tools and tricks until you can cover a variety of circumstances.

For a much more detailed essay on photography basics, email me and I will email it to you in .doc format. This goes for anyone who wants a copy. rm@mickelsenstudios.com

- RAM

[mer]

wow, thanks!

[BlueGypsy]

the document you are searching for is in the FAQ's

[themoch]

light tent/box in completely dark room, 2 pure white simulated "250 watt" compact florescent bulbs, tripod, and your basic digital camera will do. NEVER use flash in a situation like this where you don't have a complete light rig for your camera.

you'll end up with something like this:

http://glass.andrewmoch.com/glass/assets/modules/epg2/image.php?type=pic_large&id=206

and this:

http://glass.andrewmoch.com/glass/assets/modules/epg2/image.php?type=pic_large&id=167

and photoshop never hurt anybody... but start with the best pics and you'll end up with the best pics.... follow ram's advice...

[Robert Mickelsen]

Everything depends on your subject. Here are a few examples of different pieces that required variations on the basic setup my photographer and I always use.

http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/gallery/Anubis_600.jpg
This piece was very tall so was shot using a large roll of black paper curved up behind the piece to create a seamless background. Tall (60"), narrow lights were placed on either side and slightly to the front to illuminate the piece evenly from top to bottom. Finally, an overhead light was placed above and slightly behind the piece to create the soft glow on the backdrop behind the piece adding important drama to the shot. This image was the result of more than four hours of trial and error.

http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/gallery/Goblets_Santa_Fe2_800.jpg
This image was shot on a gradient background with two long, thin diffused lights on either side of the setup. My photographer and I "shaped" these lights using cardboard to give the pieces the long, thin specular highlights on each goblet.

http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/images/Nanga_Mai_sideview_600.jpg
Wall pieces are especially hard to shoot. It is difficult to avoid harsh shadows. This piece was hung on a wall that was first painted a neutral gray to absorb light. Two tall, narrow lights were placed on either side of the piece but offset slightly to balance the light in accordance to the angle of the shot. Two hours of trial and error on this one.

http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/gallery/Dogwood_Anole_600.jpg
This piece is more than 48" long and so was impossible to light evenly using static light sources. Instead, my photographer used a technique called "light painting". It took some experimentation to get what we wanted, but essentially we used one small spotlight and waved it over the surface of the piece while the shutter was open. I held the light but do not appear in the photo (even though I walked through the setup several times) because no light ever fell on me.

http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/gallery/Network_Venus_800.jpg
This recent piece was shot using a backlighting method. Transluscent plastic is the surface. A single tall narrow light source is placed behind the backdrop and moved around until the halo fits the piece. The most difficult part of this shot was the horizontal surface that the piece stands on. It took two more diffuse light sources carefully aimed to achieve the balance between removing most of the shadows without washing out the bottom half of the piece. Three hours of effort in this one.

http://www.mickelsenstudios.com/gallery/Face_To_Face_Vase_800.jpg
Another recent piece using the backlit method. Note how the falloff of the light source adds drama and depth to the "faces".

The time and effort that goes into these shots is an important part of the creative process. I do not consider a piece to be complete until we have a great photo of it. My photographer also likes to say that we cannot truly "see" a new piece until it is on the setup and lit for photography. I think he has a point.

- RAM

[Dale M.]

Lots of Q & A on photography here....

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=56

Also many of these links may help...

http://www.pbase.com/wlhuber/light_box_light_tent
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/07/how-to-diy-10-macro-photo-studio.html
http://www.tabletopstudio.com/documents/glassbead_photography.htm
http://www.sell-it-on-the-net.com/online_store/replacement_lamps.htm
http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/19002.html
http://www.lampworkglass.com/dmp.html
http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS.HTM
http://www.craftsreport.com/november99/photography.html
http://www.lapidaryart.com/projects_2.html
http://clouddome.com/
http://graphicssoft.about.com/cs/photoshop/ht/apswatermark.htm
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=steganography&btnG=Google+Search


Another thing you may want to try is putting object to be photoed under water!... Yes under water.... It is one of the best light diffusers you can use....

Dale

[d-mitchell]

thanx guys...i guess i should go buy some lights....the best luck ive had so far has been with sunlight, but still cant get the sparkly color to show up worth a shit.......mr mickelson what do you think are the best lights to buy??
heres my first try with the box.....the last one is when i just shot pics on the counter with a flash and it seems like the colors were nicer

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=35017146&albumID=1630563&imageID=29244317

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=35017146&albumID=1630563&imageID=29244321

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=35017146&albumID=1630563&imageID=29244325

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=35017146&albumID=1630563&imageID=3964640

[d-mitchell]

Lots of Q & A on photography here....



Another thing you may want to try is putting object to be photoed under water!... Yes under water.... It is one of the best light diffusers you can use....

Dale

like in a small fishtank and shoot through the glass????

[Itzallmyne]

like in a small fishtank and shoot through the glass????

no cuz then you will still get the reflection from the glass, shoot thru the top of the tank, not thru the glass but thru the water. Try this it really works killer pics, especially on marbles.

Marilyn

[Robert Mickelsen]

thanx guys...i guess i should go buy some lights....the best luck ive had so far has been with sunlight, but still cant get the sparkly color to show up worth a shit.......mr mickelson what do you think are the best lights to buy??
Buy incandescent photo floods. They come in 250 and 500 watts. Build a soft box out of cardboard and mylar or some similar transluscent plastic. Make cardboard "gobos" to block the light from hitting areas you do not want lit. To get the sparkly colors to come out use the strongest light source you can and photograph at the highest resolution you can. You may see the sparkly effect better with a detail shot rather than a full product shot. It will probably take some experimentation to get what you want.

Your photos show a lot of reflection. I can see the camera and windows in the background. You should shoot in a completely dark room with your lights blocked so that only what you want illuminated is lit. Wear black clothes and throw a black drape over the camera. Controlling the light is the key.

Highly reflective surfaces are the hardest to photograph. Shooting underwater works because the surface of the water deflects the reflection of the light sources eliminating the specular glare that is unavoidable otherwise. But shots like that can come out flat since the water also eliminates the light falloff around the edges that give a piece dimensionality. But if it is the interior of a marble or paperweight you want to show, then water is a great way to go.

- RAM

[gypsea]

wow! what great info...thank you so much!

[somberbear]

i got a few differnt filters and a macro lense , and that totaly changed the game,

im shooting cannon rebel digital it took me about a month to figure out the basic set up and operation but i still havnt masterd it cause i dont take that many pictures....

I use 2 color corrected floro fixtures cause the bill on my photo flood replacement bulbs was insane for the amount of pictrues i do.... so i traded for the "eqivelant" in floro wiht a photographer friend....

I dont mind it, i learned how to block and shade and im still getting the hang of a few things. When i got something worth while and something i like then ill post it up.... but yea defused light is so much better..... also a range of back grounds and grey scales etc seams to help a whole lot.... black is to dark and white not so great to useless for what i was taking pictures of.

But get some 10 buck filters and a macro lense that helped me get a hang on it so much faster.

RAM - thanks so much as always with your knowledge and time.

peace
rob

[Dale M.]

like in a small fishtank and shoot through the glass????

Yah.... But put lights on sides and shoot from top.... Also you may want to resort to old timie photographers trick of putting dark cloth over your head, and tank to block any stray glare off other sources of light... Movie studios use same trick to shoot through windows when there is not enough room to place cameras inside room....

Just remember taking excellent pictures is a ART in its self, just like working glass, it takes time and some innovative "science" and investment into tools..... IF you expect excellent picture by just pointing camera and clicking shutter, you will never be satisfied with the quality of your pictures.

Dale

[Slackadelic]

i cant find the mickelson post on photographing your work.....i made the box exactly how he said.....but im still getting a really bad glare....actually worse than when i just used my flash....are you supposed to put the light right up against the sides?

also was wondering about the setting and shutter speed....the color isnt coming out true....if someone could help me with these questions id be stoked....otherwise can someone please direct me to that post from mr mickelson

Hey Man, I did my ugrad work in Tech Photo - so I may be of some assistance to you.

Key to photoing glass is having nice diffused light!! Can't stress that enough. I'm guessing this box you refer to has frosted sides... don't get the lights too close or you'll still have hot spots on the glass. I'm living in ROC NY so, diffuse lighting is common place (ie. 90% of the days I can walk outside and not need a diffusing box) Anywho. Regarding your aperture / color question... the two are not related. Color Balance can be adjusted w/ a setting on your camera - what camera are you using? You'll probably need to toggle through the menus, or maybe there is a dedicated button on your camera. You want to select the icon that looks like clouds (meaning diffuse daylight (D50 color balance)) - Regardless, you can always correct the Color Balance (CB) afterwards - GIMP is a free img. tool, I recommend PhotoShop if you can get it... there will be an option to adjust the color bal.

An easy trick to quickly get the correct CB is to include an 18% grey in a corner of the shot (crop out later). Then when you adjust the CB, find the option that allows you to select a grey, click it on the grey, and whala, you've corrected the CB. (You can use white instead of grey too).

For the aperture / Shutter speed combination:
1. Are you using a tripod??
If yes, then stop down the lens to the smallest aperture, and select the appropriate shutter speed for a good exposure (always bracket your shots +/- .5 stops) NOTE - when I say stop down your lens, this corresponds to the largest f# (ie f22) - the f# is actually a fraction, so 1/22 is smaller than 1/5.6
If no tripod, you are limited by camera shake!! If you're using a Macro lens - go get a tripod!!! I don't recommend hand holding anything at less than 1/30th at a focal length of 50mm any more zoom and you're going to need a shorter exposure time also :D

FYI aperture controls the depth of field - the smaller the aperture (larger f#) the more DOF you get. The DOF is the depth the focus extends into the photograph, from where you set the focus to where it ends.

Hope this all helps, feel free to hit me up on anything photo related.
Cheers!
Mark