Talking to your home insruance agents - tips?

[Icarus]

Hey everyone. My special lady friend and I are buying a house, and I'm going to be setting up shop in my garage. I wanted to mention the lampworking setup to my insurance agent, cause I'd rather spend a few bucks more a month on insurance, and know that I'm covered in case of an accident, instead of hope for the best, and be screwed if there's a fire caused by my setup (I'm pretty crazy about safety, but the best laid plans... well, you know).

So, my question is, how can I talk to my insurance agent without freaking him out? Is there anything you would specifically mention or not mention? I don't want to lie to him by any means, but I just got done dealing with a landlord who was an alarmist and wanted two million in insurance for a building worth $600K, and that's part of the reason why we're buying a house, but because of that, I'm a little gun shy.

If it helps, here's an idea of the garage. It's attached, with one wall shared with the house. There are two windows, and the garage door (the only other door accesses the house, the only way to leave the garage and go outside is through the garage door). I'd be using one window for intake, and the other for exhaust. Oxygen will be stored inside, and propane will sit in a weatherproof box outside, and run in through the intake window until I plumb copper line through the wall. When the propane isn't in use, it will sit in a shed that is more than 20' from the house, and easily 50' from the oxy tanks. Since we have a shed, all other flammables normally kept in a garage (lawn mower fuel, tiki lamp oil, etc) will be stored in the shed. The bench will be surrounded by dura-rock or drywall. I'll have two charged and certified extinguishers, one next to the bench, and one next to the door leading to the house, and will be hardwiring most of my lights (although that may get put off for a few months).

Also, should I get the house insured first, and then come back a month or two later and talk to him about the lampworking setup (since I probably won't have any time for it in the first month or two), in the hopes that he won't raise the already established rate too much, or should I just mention it when setting up the home insurance in the first place? We've had existing auto and renters policies with the company (American Family) for over 8 years, but our agent is new, he took over the business about two years ago, so I don't know him as well as the last agent, and really don't have any relationship with him like I did our last agent.

So, does anyone have any tips or stories that they'd like to share? Any help would be greatly appreciated. This is the first home I've ever bought (actually the first item over $1800 I've ever bought), so I'm definitely really nervous, but I'm glad I'm finally doing it.

Thanks much everyone.
-VoodooBuddha

[JSR Studio]

When I called the insurance company about my last house I said "Glassblowing" and they acted like they didn't hear anything else I said. They wouldn't insure me. I finally sent them pictures of my setup (with a lynx hooked up instead of my old PM2D) and then they agreed. I just wouldn't say "Glassblowing" to them. Tell them you're making beads and small sculptures using a small torch or something to that effect. If they want to inspect your shop, make sure it's super clean and in order (tanks outside, fire extinguishers, proper ventilation system installed, etc.). I'm now setting up a new shop in my new house, and they didn't even ask any questions, they just sent the policy. It's separate from the regular house policy, so depending on your company, you could wait until you're going to work.

[Wierdeer]

just say your doing ceramics with a kiln don't even mention torch

[Firekist]

high pressure tanks/oxy tanks are often a point of contention, and if it's actually a business as opposed to a hobby. other than that.. i'd like to hear what people have to say about this.. since i'im in a similar boat..

z--seth

[Wierdeer]

just don't buy a house with a home owners ass. thats what I just did and the president of the hoa lives 8 feet away from my garage I am so paranoid blowing glass hard to relax and blow headies knowing they are goin to shut me down as soon as they find out has anyone else ever been shut down from hoa not tryin to jack the thread but your situation reminded me of it

[UmaJulz]

I got the lampworking set up added as a business because I have a Farm policy. all my equip and liability is included and not for a high rate. Part of it was based on annual income from the added business.

So you could jsut tell them that you are a hobbyist lampworker (so you don't have clients coming over, increasing liability).

the stuff that you mentioned about how your set up is, fire extinguishers etc. is all stuff that the fire marshall wants to know about. Insurance agents don't necessarily "get that".

Insure the house first, then read the policy, every stinking line of it. figure out where you fit in it, then talk to them about your hobbies, and how they are set up- whether you choose lampwork or ceramics as your story.

Good luck!

[Loïc]

I declared it Glassblowing, but because they dont really have a clue of the equipment involved, i simply mention that it is as same as Welding, except safer because the torch is tied down to cement table, etc...
They didnt charge me up more.. maybe like 5$yearly cauz i pay not much for house insurance.... ~45$ a month

That work better if your Garage is DETACHED from the house, cauz it cost must more less to insure this way.... they dont really bother about a garage, but if the garage is inside house are the same its another story...

[Loïc]

oh yea.. mention HOBBYIST... cauz otherwise u go Commercial and u are doom... it went from ~500$ a year to ~1700$ a year insurance quote

[Greymatter Glass]

when you say glass blowing people tend to think of furnaces, glory holes, large open hot areas, etc.... major fire hazards.

Key word for us is "Lampworking"

Refer to your torch by the proper name: fixed (bench) burner. Don't refer to torches, welding, hoses, propane...

torches often bring to mind welding torches. Which leads to long hoses, hand held open flames, and hot sparks. none of which we (should) regularly deal with. Hand torches are an exception, and I don't know the ethics of mentioning it or not - personally I wouldn't unless asked directly about hand held torches.

Welding means a torch that can be run across the feed lines (never say hose), can be dropped on the floor, etc. It also means hot sparks of metal shooting all over the place if you're cutting.... Welding is a lot more of a fire hazard than what we do.

the word "hose" brings into play the same thinking.... your "feed lines" should be as short as possible and as permanent as possible. Rubber hose is technically for temporary applications only.

Also, unless they ask what fuel you use just refer to fuel or gas - it simplifies the language.

You should mention you're storing oxygen on site, how much, and in what method, i.e. liquid, or high pressure tanks.

The biggest thing for my shop was telling the adjuster that we used fixed burners that are confined under a hood and mounted on fire proof benches. That one they said it made a difference.


Also, kilns - tell them you're using ceramic kilns or they'll fret for days trying to get info on glass annealers and all they'll come up with are giant industrial lehers and shit. AIM and Paragon rate most of their kilns are ceramics kilns even when sold for glass use, so it's not a lie.


As for cost, my commercial insurance (BOP) is about $1000 a year for my entire shop. For a single person running a home business studio it shouldn't be that much.... loic - find a better agent?

-Doug

[JANKYglass]

i told my company and all they said was "wow, thats cool"

try to find an independant agent that searches multiple companies for the best rates,there not as picky as an agent dedicated to one company like allstate or state farm.

[jeffbuchs]

Great advise so far.

HOBBY vs. Profession

DETACHED SHOP vs attached (if at all possible)

LAMPWORKING vs glassblowing

BENCH BURNER vs torch.

INSURANCE BROKER vs. agent only representing one company.

[Icarus]

Yeah, we were looking for detached, but this home came up, and it's just such a damn sweet deal, we couldn't pass it up. Eventually I'd like to build a studio in the backyard and do all of my work out there, but we're going to be totally broke after this (at least broke enough that building a well built freestanding structure with utilities is going to be out of our reach for a few years), so I'm just going to have to make do with what we have.

Thanks much for the advice everyone. If anyone else has any, please chime in.

[Big Jay]

This is a very interesting conversation. I have never once heard of any of my clients mentioning to the insurance company the activities in their garages. From race car builders, boat builders, woodworkers , and welders. The only reason you'd have to classify it as a business at all and get higher rates is if you have retail traffic, which also might make it an illegal business in some residential areas. Make sure if your getting quoted higher rates they know you do not have clients in your shop (if you don't). I have never seen a policy mentioning torches or welding exclusions. Are the increased rates that some of you have gotten for liability purposes not replacement costs?
That being said even if you add the stuff to your policy but do not follow the safety guidelines ( electrical wiring not to code or inspected, construction of interior rooms not to code or inspected, storage of hazardous materials not to code , gas lines not to code or inspected) could all lead to denials of claims.
I do know insurance companies are begging for reasons to drop people in certain areas. I just recently found out I had an insurance inspector at my place unnannounced and taking pictures. They wanted to cancel my policy for having 2 shingles that were slightly sagging.
If any of you have added coverage due to glass blowing do you mind scanning the area of your policy that shows your added coverage into a pdf so I can see it. I am dying to know how they classified the increase in coverage.

[Big Jay]

As for cost, my commercial insurance (BOP) is about $1000 a year for my entire shop. For a single person running a home business studio it shouldn't be that much.... loic - find a better agent?

-Doug


getting confused here we are talking about how to get quoted for homeowners insurance policies correct?

[JANKYglass]

jpatter is correct, although i mentioned it to my agent you are under no obligation too.and there aint nothing they can do if you dont.best advice is set up and shut up.

[Greymatter Glass]

well yes and no. All insurance is adjusted based on too many factors to list here.

What i was saying was that if loic was quoted $1700 for a home policy rider for his shop then he should look somewhere else because a Business owners Policy is running me $1000/yr, so he could do better.

As for what to say to an adjustor / agent it's about the same either way, the obvious difference being hobby (home) and business (store).

-Doug

[JSR Studio]

If you do that and the house burns down, you won't be insured. It's a million to one I know, but I'm not taking that chance.

sorry I posted the same time as Greymatter

btw I pay $400/year for my business policy.

[Icarus]

Phuzman, that's completely my concern. I'd rather spend some extra cash and know that my house is insured in case of an accidental fire than not spend the money and just hope for the best. Since this place has all the money I have in the world invested in it, I'd really rather know that my ass is covered in case there is an accident.

[JSR Studio]

Exactly. You know that if you're not covered and something happens they're just LOOKING for ANY reason to not pay you. Lying about lampworking in your house would be just the thing.

[jedi glassworks]

I have State Farm insurance for my home and business. My shop is also in my garage. It took a while to find an insurance company that would insure me but State Farm is great. My agent came over to check out my shop, made sure that everything LOOKED safe, then figured that I would be insured as an art studio/gallery. It covers up to $2,000,000 for property, and $100,000 in injury liabilty, and $100,000 in personal property. I hope that helps.

[Icarus]

Jedi, totally it does. Can you give me a ball park idea of what you're paying for the extra insurance?

Thanks

[jedi glassworks]

Yea, its a little under $1000 a year, broken up in quarterly payments. I can give you more specifics if you would like, just PM me.

[Ubatuba]

Sorry to go off topic here, but...

Is there a place that this thread can be saved or stickyed? Like a folder/thread/catagory, for people that run buisnesses out of their homes, or a buisness in general. You could add the Tax info there as well. I found this VERY informative and important.

[UmaJulz]

Ask MerMonkey if he can put it up in "setting up shop" or "misc topics". I'll try to find some more info.

[SteppingRazor]

I had a fire inspector come to my detached garage shop. He said my set up looked good and that since I was a "HOBBYIST" He could not fine me or shut me down if there was somthing wrong. The only recomendation he made was to chain up the tanks not in use, and only have one 20lbs tank of propane in the shop at a time. I had 3.
I think if you invited your local firemarshall over for an inspection and got some sort of written statement from him that would go a long way with your insurence company. Unless he's a tottal dick.
~Joe

[Icarus]

So my new issue of the Flow came today (yay!), and on page 61, there's an advertisement for RLI home business insurance. Their website is www.insuremyhomebiz.com. Has anyone heard of or used these guys? I'm thinking that this might make an affordable backup in case my home insurance agent wants to give me a hard time about it. But at the same time, I want to know that my ass is covered in case of an accident.

Thoughts?

[JSR Studio]

Personally, I would want to work with someone local. Online or out-of-state companies will add to your misery if you have to make a claim. I had to file a $30,000 claim once on my last house. The adjuster was close by and everything happened really fast. Just my opinion.

[Big Jay]

isn't there some legalities on double coverage as well? I'd make sure whatever your paying for isn't redundant if you use a second company. Cause you can't collect from two companies.

[Glassroots]

I called the RLI co. that was in the flow and they quoted me $650. I don't know, that seems cheap to me considering I teach classes and have quite a few students coming through. They are a new company and that makes me a little nervous. I will call around and see if I can get another quote.

By the way thats the price for $20,000 personal business liability( tools equipment etc.)

And $500,000 of business liability ( people getting hurt etc.)

[nickglassdood]

ins really like to here that the torches are atttatched to the bench, and it dont hurt to metntion your low presssure minor

[Conchis]

I just got a quote from RLI as well....it would cover my shop at home and also cover me while I'm at craft shows, but I suspect mostly for damages that my canopy might do to passing strangers as the wind picks it up and slams them to the ground. It doesn't look like it would really cover theft from my stall. I noticed that someone asked if anyone had ever heard of them. I take it that no one knows about them. The rates are really good.

[naughty pirate wench]

When we were selling our handmade soaps 7-10 years ago, we insured through RLI, since our homeowner's agent didn't offer that product. Never had a claim, so I can't speak to their claims service, but I think it was about $400/year for the coverage. I know we had liability coverage (in case some doofus ATE the soap and got a tummy ache), and I do believe we had our equipment and inventory insured as well. I believe that the majority of soapmakers who insure, do so through RLI. Haven't heard anything bad about them. Hope this helps!

[Conchis]

Thanks Chris...some of the shows I'm doing are starting to require insurance...it never ends. That's about what the quote I got was...that's a darned good rate, if they will stand behind a claim.