Soft vs. Boro

[rrich1103]

Ohk, so I understand that boro is good for making things like pipes, and other stuff that's chances of breaking are higher then others.

What are it's advantages though, in pendants and other jewelries?

Soft glass is cheaper(overall) and you can make a pendant with it O_o... I've seen allot of glassblowers use borosilicate for pendants, incredibly cool looking pendants, but mind you still pendants that could have just as easily been soft.

I'm pretty new so I don't know if this is an easy answer or not :o:

Just curious, thank you!

[Uscalus Storm]

I hear you on that...I was half tempted to buy some soft glass for these flowers ive been attempting. But all in all im not sure what to say. I have been told that it likes to explode in the kiln...however i dont really have kiln experience. But i wouldn't mind some others outlook on this

[beachglass]

boro is just nicer to work with....plus alot of designs (implosions for example) would probably be harder to control with soft glass. not to mention striking colours which are actually cheaper in boro form as far as i know

edit: also when making pendants youre using so little glass that the cost factor isnt a big deal either way. my average pendant contains less than a buck worth of glass

[beachglass]

also optical clarity is better in most boro i believe....and for me i make pendants from 16-20mm clear rod which is tough to find in soft glass. and and and... :)

[Uscalus Storm]

So what exactly is soft glass used for?

[LewisW]

It is just glass. You use it for what you are capable.Many will chime in and say that it is just for beads or marbles. But then in different hands stuff like this is made. http://www.luciobubacco.com/gallery.asp?IDCategoria=5 .
I worked with boro for eighteen years before i worked with soft glass..
It also demands a torch that works well for soft glass. Like most surface mix torches. Or even in a pre mix if you know how. generally add more oxy and work at the tail end of the flame.
Here is a bit what I have done in soft glass. After a few classes with Lucio.
http://www.crystalmyths.com/glassart/Details.asp?lngGlassArtID=64
http://www.crystalmyths.com/glassart/Details.asp?lngGlassArtID=50

If you are able, try and work with many types of glass. You will find what works best for you.
Lewis C Wilson

[CripSkillz]

wow lewis thats some pretty cool stuff right there.. i have some soft glass sitting in a bag somewhere, i have that hid out dont want it gettin mixed up with the other stuff could be bad

[J Howard]

sometimes you can bend the rules better with boro. like going back to work a spot you just finished. soft glass becomes alot more difficult when you try and work on larger things. boro works a little more carefree. shane fero calls it pretend glass. i thought that was pretty funny at the time.

soft glass is way easier to melt, making it better for large furnace work. if you can learn to flamework it, you can incorporate that into furnace work. nothing like kickin it up a notch in size by going over to the furnace and picking up a 10lb scoop

to go really big with boro takes a little cutting edge technology, so thats up and coming.


learn a little of all glass, its worth it

[Big Jay]

I had a brief moment when I thought I wanted to switch to soft glass, that was till I seen how touchy it is. Like having to warm it super slowly. Also watching blobs literaly explode in the hot shop like glass grenades didn't warm my heart to it any more. Some times I'd love to have my glass stay soft a little longer then there are times I do something and think damn if this was soft glass I'd be waiting forever for that stretch or pull to harden. Bleeding colors in soft glass sounds tricky too.
Of course sculpturally there are things you can do with soft glass that you can't with boro like not melting joints in all the way. Plus the other finishes you can put on soft glass you can't on boro.
Take that info for what its worth though. I am no pro and I have never put a soft glass rod in the torch. And I'd love to have a furnace to make marbles out of soft glass.

[rrich1103]

I just setup a temp soft glass station... worked with it for the first time... It breaks very easily from heatshock and isn't the easiest to work with. I think if i give it a few more hours, I'll be ohk working with it though. Stringers are annoying as hell to form >_<

[dogmaw]

I work with both boro and soft glass... even the really soft Satake stuff. For you boro people that want to try soft glass, turn the heat down! Way down. Really really down. I make stringers in boro different than I do in soft glass. In soft glass, I heat up a blob, pull it out of the flame, count to 3, then grab a teeny bit with tweezers and pull slowly. For boro I leave the rod in the flame while I pull, and don't worry about getting a big blob because my torch isn't manly enough to make a big blob quickly. Either way, it is all about the heat control.

[somewhere]

Ok I'll play the devils advocate on this one

Soft glass pros over borosilicate:

much larger color pallet
better brilliance luster and optical quality
less expensive
takes less energy to melt it
lower working temp
longer working time
can be fused and slumped less devit
can be cast at low temps
can easily be batched from raw ingredients
can be drawn from the furnace and worked off hand
easy to pull miles of cane or stringers

your mama thinks it's pretty






HaHa I'll think of more this was just off the top of my head.

BTW: you would have to pry the boro out of my cold dead hands before I'd let go completely.

[MUPH]

Isnt the color pallate of boro is much more broad than soft glass as far as striking colors and silver content goes?

[The Lorax]

because i don't like soft glass. it is where is started and i never plan on going back.

[susheke]

Any reason you can't do both? I do and wouldn't give up either.

[roger parramore]

Glass is glass. Blow glass.

[The Lorax]

Any reason you can't do both? I do and wouldn't give up either.

b/c i love the way boro flows and i hate the way soft glass does... it is simple for me. :D

[CitizenNot]

Glass is glass. Blow glass.

you don't say....
a surprising statement coming from you...

[Ro's Glass World]

I love both, and use whichever one suits the task at hand.

for beads, soda lime hands down, I prefer 104. I also use it in sculpture when I want lots of detail, its much easier/faster to get good attachments. It is easier to tool. I also choose it for the variety of opaque colors. It is also easier to stump suck so can be better for applications using that technique. Encasing goes smoother as well, less chance of air trap or melting whats underneath.

Other than that I use boro which is stronger and allows for some reheats without a long kiln time between. Some times I also want parts of a piece to set up faster. It really depends on the piece. I definitely use more boro in sculpture and I don't make many beads. I wouldn't not have the soft glass on hand though. its there when i need it. The more I torch the more I find I have things I want to work with soft glass.

I really think its such an individual choice for each artist.

ro

[Greymatter Glass]

Soft glass is saltier, with a more complex earthy tone. It goes well with game, beef, and rich artisan cheeses.

Boro has a lighter more refreshing taste, with a slight note of elderberry and hazelnut. It's best matched with poultry, white fish, pastas, and as an aperitif.

Fused quartz, a rare variety, is best servers warm as an appetizer with room temperature water. It also makes a nice compliment to entertainment and light cocktail snacks.

Hope that helps,

-Doug

[somewhere]

Isnt the color pallate of boro is much more broad than soft glass as far as striking colors and silver content goes?

No it is a small pallet compared to 96 coe or 104 coe.
There are few striking color and few silver colors in the 104coe.
96 coe is a whole different story there are many to chose from. It has been developed over a long time. Boro color is small scale compared to what's available in soda lime. The ingredients of soft glass batch allow for more room to play. More options for colorants. Just over all easier to make color in a soda lime then boro.

I'll add to my list tomorrow or maybe I should start the pros of boro over soft glass.

I think the best one is really whatever I'm using at the time. LOL

[redashesglass]

I have only used soft glass a few times I work boro. the thing I like about soft glass is the lower working temp. and the flex. I know a guy that makes the best spiders the legs are so thin they flex but dont break. You can touch up the feet and ballance them with the flame of a lighter. I just dont see that in boro, i think its too brittle that thin.

[Hunter]

Boro baby all the way!!

[newmexicomagma]

isnt boro supposed to be one of the strongest commercially available glasses? dont they make fiber optic out of boro? im not sure but i think thats what ive heard. and fiber optic is thin and bendable.

[J Howard]

fiber optics are made from pure quartz. the thread is coated in a plastic like coating as it cools so they can't scratch. if you can't scratch the glass, you can't break it!

[michaelangeloglass]

hmmmmmmmm,

I like lampwoking, and I like soft glass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og8AJpSAvDA

so I do both @ the same time...;o)


Michael Angelo Menconi

[Cosmo]

For me, it comes down to how the glass works. In soft glass, the transparent colors are stiffer than the opaques. In borosilicate, colors are stiffer than clear. So for the things I like to make, I like that the clear borosilicate flows before the color does. It works for how I work.

However, I do highly recommend that those of you who have never tried soft glass go out and try it. It's what I learned on, and we sell 10x as much soft glass at our store as we do borosilicate. I also teach many more soft glass classes than I do borosilicate classes.

I think it can only benefit you to work with as many different types of glass as you can.

[roger parramore]

fiber optics are made from pure quartz. the thread is coated in a plastic like coating as it cools so they can't scratch. if you can't scratch the glass, you can't break it!

Fucking wrong. Anytime you exceed the mechanical strength of the glass it will break. Asshole.

[Kalera]

Doug wins this round.

[roger parramore]

Ok yeah, I shouldn't have called you an asshole. Sorry about that. So I got an infraction for a response to an equally disrespectful, though more thinly veiled, initiating comment. I'll take the slap on the wrist and wear it with pride. I still think the person hiding behind the avatar who thinks glass cannot be broken without a scratch is really sexual intercourse mistaken. Not to mention just continuing to distribute misinformation. And I maintain they might could easily be a smelly thing from within your britches. Not that they are mind you, but maybe could be. Ouch, my wrist hurts. As for me being drunk again, just can't quite imagine where a comment like that could come from, or why someone would think it would be appropriate to say such an unprovoked thing. So maybe I myself am an asshole too. Oh, is it OK to call myself an asshole? Maybe I need another infraction just in case. And actually, I've had quite a lot to say about a lot of different things. But in my experience as a glass artist and teacher I see over and over the temptation to stray from what is really important. It doesn't matter how you blow glass, how you slump, fuse, kilncast, paint on it or otherwise. It doesn't matter which glass you use, why you use it or othwrwise. The only thing that is truly important is to learn the material as a material. Once you know the material process becomes irrelevant. In all the things I've had to say, I can't remember taking a personal shot at anyone, unless perhaps I know them well. I don't recall calling anyone a drunk, stoner, tweaker, crackhead, meth head, or any such thing. My message is always the same. Blow glass. Learn the material. Think critically. So one day when you're an old asshole like me, and you see someone swirling in the cesspool of their own ignorance, extend the helping hand and see what happens.

[Uscalus Storm]

Well i thought about giving you one to see what'd you say. :evilLaugh: if i was in ur shoes and someone did it again. I'd laugh....hysterically.

Either or, i think i'll attempt to move to soft glass for some of my flowers i've been making.... cheaper to experiment with design.

Btw..any suggestions on what company would be best ?

[Brian Newman]

Fucking wrong. Anytime you exceed the mechanical strength of the glass it will break. Asshole.

However, mechanical strength is based on surface tension. A break in the surface tension means the glass has almost no strength.

[nodice]

Ok yeah, I shouldn't have called you an asshole. Sorry about that. So I got an infraction for a response to an equally disrespectful, though more thinly veiled, initiating comment.......So one day when you're an old asshole like me, and you see someone swirling in the cesspool of their own ignorance, extend the helping hand and see what happens.

See how easy that was? His comment wasn't really veiled or disrespectful. It seems to me like he was just trying to be funny, and maybe have you like him cause he think's you're cool. Course then you called him an ass. Happens I guess. Might wanna relax a lil, it's not the end of the word. Course, this is comin from someone who spazzes when his posts get removed(talkin about myself if you couldn't tell).

Anyways, to get back on topic, I'm gonna stick a fiber optic cable in my butt to check its tensal(is that the right word?) strength.

[J Howard]

go blow glass, roger. you're getting sucked into the intardnet. and relax, i'm just giving you a hard time, that's what friends do to each other when it's time. - and i don't hide behind any avatar, my name is at the bottom of every post. my avatar's a silly hold over from kristians' original glass board- a ship of fools with lots of silly inuendos like that. pick on it all you want. it's supposed to be stupid, that's the whole point!

i thought your posts were getting redundant and sarcastic... to the point of disrespect. i don't recall you being really helpful. saying "go blow glass" does not imply "learn the material". to me it sounds like, "go fuck yourself silly pipers- get off the computer and blow glass for a change"! but you have to admit, you say the same thing in every post... go blow glass! i say lots of stupid things under the influence..... to me it would have made more sense. some people call spades


you have alot to share, and i truly respect your opinions... you were one of my best teachers, and i've had alot. but doling out trite comments gets you no where. i'd rather hear real responses from you, maybe elevate a conversation or 2 (in here that is).

no hard feelings K? sorry if i pissed on your spaceship, just trying to keep you in line. and somebody take off that infraction- that's silly, i can dish it out and take it in return happily.

Jason

[Pilgrim]

I think every thing Mr. Parramore said is 100% correct. The guys like a God in the glass blowing community. To question this man is stupid.

[vetropod]

Irregardless of his reputation, that was entertaining to read! :D But questions are always important, and people who appear to know everything are sometimes wrong.

[Brian Newman]

I think every thing Mr. Parramore said is 100% correct. The guys like a God in the glass blowing community. To question this man is stupid.

Drama from last year, already put to bed.

100% correct is easier when almost nothing gets said. Just saying. Probably wrong for saying it.

[Pilgrim]

Blah blah blah...

[Brian Newman]

Your hero has said almost nothing glass related in this thread. Blah blah blah is indeed about the size of it. Not trying to stir shit up with Roger, he has my respect. However,:

Glass is glass. Blow glass.
Anytime you exceed the mechanical strength of the glass it will break.

Hardly Godlike revelations.

[Pilgrim]

Your hero has said almost nothing glass related in this thread. Blah blah blah is indeed about the size of it. Not trying to stir shit up with Roger, he has my respect. However,:

Glass is glass. Blow glass.
Anytime you exceed the mechanical strength of the glass it will break.

Hardly Godlike revelations.

Brian,I think I am your hero....so wipe your chin...

[Udai Hussien]

Brian,I think I am your hero....so wipe your chin...
you know, People stand up for you, and you just prove how stupid they are. you are a real fucking oxygen thief asshole. Just wanted to remind you, encase you forgot.

[MUPH]

why did this get bumped?

[PyroChixRock]

Scottland, I just realized I forgot to delete your old infractions. I'll do that now. However, you're getting a brand new sparkly one for stirring shit up. :twitch:

thread closed.