Solenoids on gas lines???

[Jerry Gash]

So I'm pretty lazy and have a bad habit about forgetting to turn off my propane when im done working. I was wondering if it would be possible to use a solenoid like this (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagetype=itmlookupctlg&reqtyp=catalog&CtlgPgNbr=446&sesnextrep=616450437712947&CtlgEdition=114&k1=7876K26&t1=PN&k2=7876K14&t2=PN&search=7876k26&resultsQueryStr=sesnextrep%3D616450437712947%26sea rchstring%3D7876k26%26tab%3Dfind%26FastTrack%3DFal se%26ftctlgpg%3D%26FlCntxt%3D%26newfrmwk%3Dtrue) to put on my regulator so i could just turn on the gas and oxy with the flip of a switch?

[CripSkillz]

I dont see why not, but im sure someone will think its a extra part that could possibly fail and cause a problem, but it will work!!

[Islandglass Man]

I think Jerry has failed. What ever makes you lazy and forgetful STOP it. Lampworkers have enough trouble not getting hurt while working.

Bear

[kebira]

I'm not sure I'd puy an electrically actuated valve on my propane tank. Maybe an air operated, but then you're talking compressed air,air lines etc. It may be easier to tie a string to you and the tank to jolt your memory.
...I work around highly flammable gases and solvents, everything sparkproof.

Kevin

[Jerry Gash]

I'm sure smutty has got some input on this, what do ya got man? I was thinking it would be cool to have them on the same switch as my hood fan, so you cant ever run the torch w/o the hood being on. I'm sure this is done a lot with industrial type solenoids, i guess maybe they could use the "string" method but they probably use a solenoid.

[mer]

So I'm pretty lazy and have a bad habit about forgetting to turn off my propane when im done working. I was wondering if it would be possible to use a solenoid like this (http://www.mcmaster.com/nav/enter.asp?pagetype=itmlookupctlg&reqtyp=catalog&CtlgPgNbr=446&sesnextrep=616450437712947&CtlgEdition=114&k1=7876K26&t1=PN&k2=7876K14&t2=PN&search=7876k26&resultsQueryStr=sesnextrep%3D616450437712947%26sea rchstring%3D7876k26%26tab%3Dfind%26FastTrack%3DFal se%26ftctlgpg%3D%26FlCntxt%3D%26newfrmwk%3Dtrue) to put on my regulator so i could just turn on the gas and oxy with the flip of a switch?

how would this help you remember to turn off your tanks? it really doesn't take much time anyway does it? spend 15 minutes thinking about your shop on fire and what that would mean to your life, i bet you'll start remembering after that.

[smutboy420]

You can do that But most situations would still have the valve AFTER the regulator and not straight off the tank. BUT with the right spected valve it can be done. But if you want to have something that turns your propane off with a switch. like a wall switch or some thing. You can get a kit already made at boat and RV places that have every thing you need to do Just that.



I'm not sure I'd puy an electrically actuated valve on my propane tank. Maybe an air operated, but then you're talking compressed air,air lines etc. It may be easier to tie a string to you and the tank to jolt your memory.
...I work around highly flammable gases and solvents, everything sparkproof.

They are some thing that we all have in our homes and they are so same we don;t even know there there doing there jobs faithfully. But the concept by its self of thinking gas and electric some how equates to sparks. and cause big boom boom to go bang.
is quite natural to be afraid of if not understood. As fire and and lightning are 2 things all humans have a natural fear off. As they have been around longer then the first cave man to be zapped in a lightning storm or burned up in the forest fire after.

Electromagnetic actuated valves
Are Quite normal and and considered pretty safe. As long as the right valve is used. In fact its done in just about every house I know of that has a gas or propane water heater,stove,gas clothes dryer. or any thing else that has gas or propane fed to it by code its required most places. (peek in side the lil door on a gas drier you will see one or more electric solenoids controlling the gas flame.)
There is no electrical contact in any way with the metal on the valve. and no way could a spark out side a solenoid come in to contact with the gas in the line. In fact they are required. as they use a magnet to move the part inside the valve. There is no physical openings to fail or let gas threw like if it was mechanically actuated valve with a push rod moving in and out threw a rubber seal that could leak and then have gas find an ignition source some were. Like a wall switch being turned on. Or an pilot light.

Whats cool with a solenoid to IS if it ever fails it just fails to turn on. But the pressure in the line is what hold it closed and the magnet is what makes it open up. But if any thing goes wrong and the electric fails the valve closes. Also the more pressure goes in to one the tighter it seals the plunger. Were as a mechanical valve usually has many places for a valve to fail and blow a seal. An electric one just wont be able to open if the pressure is to high.










I'm not sure I'd puy an electrically actuated valve on my propane tank.




Maybe an air operated, but then you're talking compressed air,air lines etc. It may be easier to tie a string to you and the tank to jolt your memory.
...I work around highly flammable gases and solvents, everything sparkproof.

[VED]

well you could walk your lazy ass around the shop and shut off the tank, but i dont see a problem with the solenoids my foot pedal uses an eletric solenoid for the propane. just do what my dad would have done, put up with turning it off your self untill the kid is old enough to do it for you. thats only like 5 more years

[Jerry Gash]

Thanks for chimming in here Smutty, so anyone else want to tell me how dangerous it is or that it just wont work?

I know for a fact that I am not the only person that has ever forgot to turn off their gases after a long day of ragin', something like this could prevent a major fire. I think it would be more of a safety feature more than just a convenient way of turning on and off your gases.

[mer]

maybe i don't get what you're talking about. does it turn the tanks off automatically? how does it prevent you from forgetting?

[Dale M.]

It you are to lazy to turn off your tanks, it probably likely you will get lazier and not flip switch that controls solenoids for your gases....

Maybe working with compressed gases is not for you if you can't consciously be safe when handling/using them.

No insult intended, just one of life's observation....

Dale

[Greymatter Glass]

As a safety feature I think it's an awesome idea and have thought of it for my studio many times.

Problem is that explosion proof large bore (high flow), high pressure valves that would work are like $500-800 each... the cheap ones for residential natural gas service are good up to about 12 psi. And oxygen certified are expensive no matter what.

Still, I'd like to do it. There are pressure sensitive valves to high pressure gas that close if they go over 165 F, and they're only $20-50. Might be a way to go for safety.

-Doug

[Jerry Gash]

Come one Doug, you know you want to just tell me im too lazy and shouldn't be blowing glass too..

Just kidding, that was kind of the answer i was looking for, wasn't really asking so i could get insulted but whatever, now i remember why i only post here every other month.

[mer]

i'm not trying to insult you, it just doesn't make sense. and btw, you did start this thread by saying that you're lazy.


just sayin'.... see ya in july.

[Jerry Gash]

i'm not trying to insult you, it just doesn't make sense. and btw, you did start this thread by saying that you're lazy.


just sayin'.... see ya in july.

I just really didn't need to hear another "your gonna burn your garage down" reply, my dad does that everytime he comes over, funny he leaves with a new pipe almost everytime though.

I still think it would be dope to be able to do something like this even if it did cost a lot, i've been thinking about running hard lines to my stations lately so that kinda got me thinking about other things i could do as well.

BTW: I'm not really that lazy, i work 40 hours a week, blow glass after work and have a 6 week old daughter, i just wish i could be lazy.

:crazy:

[smutboy420]

What I allways forget is not so much to turn off the gas. Its rembering If I shut it off Sence its so automatic I just do it and don't didn't register it in my memory. Then Meghan and I Would be in the car going down the road. When I think oh no did I forget to turn the propane tanks off?????????????????????? Then go back and find out I did shut every thing off.

[Jerry Gash]

What I allways forget is not so much to turn off the gas. Its rembering If I shut it off Sence its so automatic I just do it and don't didn't register it in my memory. Then Meghan and I Would be in the car going down the road. When I think oh no did I forget to turn the propane tanks off?????????????????????? Then go back and find out I did shut every thing off.

I just had that happen to me last week, i could of swore i didn't turn off the oxy but i went back out to the shop and sure enough...off

[The Glass Fish]

What I allways forget is not so much to turn off the gas. Its rembering If I shut it off Sence its so automatic I just do it and don't didn't register it in my memory. Then Meghan and I Would be in the car going down the road. When I think oh no did I forget to turn the propane tanks off?????????????????????? Then go back and find out I did shut every thing off.

Make a sign that says "turn off propane, stupid" and put on the last place you look before you leave the shop (next to the door knob, by the light switch, etc.) . Seriously, you'll laugh every time it reminds you and you'll remember you did because of the sign.

[newmexicomagma]

wouldnt the solenoid be the same thing as turning your torch off? there will still be gas in the lines right? but anyways i also think you should just turn it off like usual. i forget sometimes but just turn it off when i get back home.........

[somberbear]

http://www.holley.com/14168NOS.asp could get something like this made up....

its for remote cracking of nos tanks in cars .... and i guess could be rigged for propane.

this solves the problem at the sorce

http://www.rewci.com/lpgasdealwi3.html

another slick idea.

electrical solinoids are perfectly fine to use with propane as long as there rated for it, dont use compressed air stuff.... but there fine , only way for them to go pop is a catastrophic failure, many appliances use them , most furnaces , stoves ,water heaters, etc are trusted devices with these technologies and proven. many industrial equipment use banks of these to control processes. so the fear of a UL listed and tested and purposed part is kinda crazy to me. i mean i like the idea of mechanical. but the reality is also is if i dont have power to run my foot pedel i am probably not working in the glass shop cause my kilns down too and my lights and my vent....... so its kinda 6 of on half a dozen of the other...... do your research and find the best for you.

peace
rob

an once of prevention is worth a pound of solution some times , just remeber to shut down your tanks....