failing enrollment syndrome

[matte eskuche]

hey all,

as a flameworker who's career is indebted to professional schools, it concerns me to see so many classes canceling out there. i've prepared a few questionnaires designed to flush out as much information as possible surrounding the many aspects of education in flamework. i thought if i could get input from the perspective of school programming directors, teachers, hobbyists, and students and practitioners of all experience levels, that we as a community might be able to apply the results in the efforts of repairing the downward trend in enrollment that seems to be happening in flame classes. there will be an article speaking to this subject in the fall issue of The Flow as well as a follow up article next summer using the data from the surveys.

the links to the three questionnaires are as follows:

school programming directors or private studio directors go to: tinyurl.com/4slppl

teachers go to:
tinyurl.com/4m3mer

students, hobbyists, practitioners of all stripes go to:
tinyurl.com/67m4c9

thank you very much for your participation, i look forward to hearing everybodys perspective and input.

sincerely, matt eskuche

[Mr. Wonka]

Matt- Give me a call whenever you get a chance… I have been meaning to call you, but I’ve been really busy lately.

Tom
(724) 791-2100

[skip]

The Eugene glass school's current schedule has hardly any visiting flameworkers this session. I think it has to do with the economy.

I know a lot of musicians and they are not touring right now due to the cost of gas as well as lack of ticket sales.

It's a sad scene.

[Jones Art Glass]

Hey Matt! I got back with you about classes in general at AGI. I have a few questions for you as well my man. PM me.

[JANKYglass]

you owe me some rep for that

[JANKYglass]

you aint even got no rep you owee a half hour of my life back

[Mike_Aurelius]

Plain and simple, it is the economy. Fix the economy and enrollment will go back up. High fuel prices = people not travelling (students AND teachers).

This seems like a no-brainer to me, it is really worth writing an article in The Flow about?

[$$$$$$$]

For me that's wrong Mike.. I personally have shit to do and it's kind of one of those things where, I roughly plan on taking a class and if I don't have anything going on that weekend or whatever, I'll sign up.. I'd say in the last two weeks is when I would sign up for most classes.. Depending on if everyone does that then the classes would get canceled..

[Mike_Aurelius]

I understand Adam, but the "issue" is that teachers and studios generally have a minimum number of students that they need to put on a class, and most of the time, the sign up cut off more than several weeks before the class -- especially if the teacher is travelling by air (in order to get the best price). I understand where you are coming from, but "last minute" sign ups are not the best idea, especially with the economy the way is right now...and the price of airline tickets plus fees for baggage etc.

[$$$$$$$]

yeah, I know that it's not the best way to do things as far as the class organizers are concerned. I'm just saying that, that's the way I do it and they're may be other reasons for classes being cancelled..

[misticglass]

is your class at technolux cancelled

[matte eskuche]

i'm into sarcasm, but please clarify "rep" and "owe" for me Janky.

"it is really worth writing an article in The Flow about?" i won't assume i know what you mean by that. if you will clear up your grammar or punctuation i would be pleased to answer you.

the economy really provides a shitty cover for the problems that have been happening over the last few years. i think it really compounds what has been going on, and Adam speaks well to that point. i've had several classes cancel a month out for lack of sign up, only to hear that three more people asked to sign up for it a few days before it was to be held.

i'm finding out more and more about this every day. that Tecnolux class was held in 2006, so obviously there is some mis-information that might be contributing to the state of things as well.

i'm really not trying to add my opinion as to whats happening and am very interested in everybodys thoughts and input into this.

thank you Adam and Mike, i value your ideas.

-matt

[lucidvisions]

Matt, I'd have to agree with the state of the economy also. If the studio is outside the area of most of your potential clients, they're putting up 300-500 for a workshop, 200-300 for RT airfare, 80 a night in lodging, food ect. Damn it starts to add up quick. I would believe that traveling for the artists to teach would entail the same expenses, except they're getting paid to be there, not much I suppose though. It's gonna be rough for awhile I think, hang on tight.

My .02 is that any article on any subject written by an accomplished artist is well worth having publishment in the Flow.

Josh

[mer]

i'm into sarcasm, but please clarify "rep" and "owe" for me Janky.

if i may, "rep" is given to each other here by clicking the little "R" in the upper right corner of each post. you add to another's reputation altering power by hitting the "R" for posts that you find informative or helpful. you will have more rep to give as you accumulate time and helpful/interesting posts. if you check your user cp you will see that i've just given you rep points for starting this discussion. :)

as for class enrollment i would imagine that as the economy tightens up most of the hobbyists will drop out first. those of us working in the industry have pretty tight finances and might be more likely to leave registration until the last minute since we don't just have extra cash sitting around to register the minute we see something we like. i bet a larger proportion of students that you see now actually save up for your classes and they don't really start doing that until they see the announcement. perhaps earlier announcements might help?

i also took a class with mickelson once that had around around 25 people in it. it was well structured and we really did have a lot of information presented to us in-between torch time and everybody did get a little one-on-one time with robbin too. most importantly, the class was only $250 which allowed a lot of people to attend who wouldn't have been able to afford a class like that otherwise.

just ideas submitted respectfully. best of luck to you.

[Chris Carlson]

repetative classes, a non growing student market, bad advertising, ever expanding import prodo market eliminating the opportunity to get started and afford classes in glass blowing... just thoughts...

i live in eugene, and EGS was one of the reasons the city was an appealing place to move, 2 years in, i havent taken a class.... have the curriculums been uninspiring, the prices to high, the timing awful, i 'm not sure...i love taking classes, but havent seen anything intriguing enough.... heard emilio might be here next year though...

we( marcel, jason, dale and i) at living glassworks have had full classes and even had to add a class last round...

teach pipes!! people know they can make their money back!

its the pipers who were/are takin classes...must cater.

[3 rip min]

chris, i think to myself all the time, why would anyone take classes anywhere besides at your guys" shop. if i wanted a class i would get one on one from j lee, no doubt.

it would be way too hard to get started these day unless you live at home with mom and dad.. you cant make shitty prodo and get paid for it like you could 10 years ago..

smoke shops dont have the same amount of pipe makers coming through like thay used to and thats why alot of shops sell import prodo..

[lucky]

how much would a class clost? at LGS?

[misticglass]

I think an experience such as a class at corning museam of glass or going to Italy or something that really imerses you can be invalueable to people starting out. To really get you hooked.

becoming skilled at glass will always involve a mentor, whether it be an old maestro, some kids in a basement, or more frequently lately the internet you have to learn somewhere. I think developing a rock star persoana (not talking ego) or having a big name definatelly helps with drawing students. With classes in the hundreds of dollars people would rather buy a kit and watch on you-tube these days.

On the possitive side There is still plenty of room to break into art centers, colleges, even high schools to make glass lampworking as accepted as something like ceramics. It is growing at an amazing rate.

Teaching begginers instead of advanced lampers may be more sucessful becuase there are more people out there that just want to mess around on a torch than want to master it.

-m

[newmexicomagma]

for me the big problem is there are no classes anywhere near me. i am in alb and we have to travel far for classes. i know me and rashaan (jones aret glass) are interested in similar things and i have at least 2 other buddies that would be willing to take classes. theyjust cost us way to much with travel and everything. i know i am interested in classes too. i took a sizelove class in ft collins, which seems to be the closest class other that glasscrafts. there are a couple studios here in new mexico and hell ill through out the place to crash, lol. but thats what i think it is. i would take a class every couple of months if they were closer.

[jiminyrootkit]

location is my biggie too.
there just aren't any classes near here
i'd love to take some classes, but hell, it takes me $100+ in gas just to get to an airport....+flight +class +food/room ....i'm a fuckin glassblower man, doncha know we broke?
-f

[JANKYglass]

i just figured i took 30 minutes to do your survey you could take 30 seconds to rep me.
but it seems your not familiar with the rep system,i hope mermonkey cleared it up.
wasnt trying to say you "OWE"me for real.

but now i'm feeling a back rub is in order.(sarcasm)

[somberbear]

there are many factors in this i think.

1. ego - alot of people start on there own and there head grows... they got they are on there own skill and dont see how some one else can teach them any thing.

2. details and advertising. many schools dont get me excited about classes , showing examples of what i will be doing and teacher back ground, theres mainly a small blurb in some trade paper. agi gets me going just cause i know whats there.

3. travel - with having to make plans and hotels , air travel , etc its hard to scheudal that and working in a shop to pay for it. also scheduals tend to be to flexable in most glass i have seen. and some people have a hard time pinning down what they want to do.

4. economy - you have to work harder to make the money you need to go...you have to lose money to take a class.... you have to prove your program will help me turn around and make me a better and more valued worker.

5. to many inconsitant classes. they tend to be sparatic , like i heard about a cool class with marcl, but i couldnt make it, but i couldnt figure out when the next one like that would be..... so i couldnt plan far enough ahead to do it.

6. lack of low level classes and training... you need newbies to teach newbies with money.

7. lack of diversity - its all fairly the same flormat, a few days or one day for 500 bucks. etc. or a week etc. but it would be nice to have a dependable monthly class etc... or a small help class etc. cheaper entry level classes etc.

8. knowing your market - some classes i dont know who there marketing to but i most the time i dont see any thing i like to take or they conflict with other things.....

peace
rob

[matte eskuche]

thanks for the reps bro, i'll try to live up to it.

i'm so sad to hear so much talk about the economic pressures having such an impact on peoples interest in classes. i'm going to have to dig deeper though, the economy wasn't such an issue a few years ago and i think this is a longer term issue than just gas prices and such.

it's possible with so many new flameworkers coming in everyday that the pipers of the last decade are the pool that will be the standard for those newbies to look to for their education. i'm not poo-pooing that, i just don't want there to be too much of a gap in knowledge between the newbies garages and the Rakow library.

i understand the catering to pipemakers thing too, when i wanted to make goblets i took Cesare's class. in the future i'd like to learn more about pipemaking, for me to work thick and really flip a disk, i would have to study with someone who knows their shit instead of just guessing about it. i would like to learn the terminology behind pieces nowadays too, when i left it was spoons, hammers, and bubblers. i think i overheard chubbler once in a bar in Nederland, but that was about it.

how about an exchange programme? i'll come to your studios for a couple days and learn the in's and outs of super-pipes and then give my angle on making vessels with .25 mm thick walls and flat-ass feet attached with a punty.....

[matte eskuche]

sorry Janks, if i press the wrong button around here it takes me 10 minutes to get back to where i was, and even then i don't know where i am..

i'll get you a private session with Lewis at AGI, he can do much more for your back than i can.

[jane clifton]

The only classes that I can get people to come to is Beginning bead making. I think the reason for that is because the price of the class includes all the equipment. I have a lot of people who say if I brought in someone like Steve to do a class they would definitely come, but when the price is so much for the instructor, its hard to commit to a class that is going to cost $400.oo! I've had Fat Mike down to teach beginning tubing and no one signed up. I do plenty of advertising, but may only get one or two people. I have much more success with private lessons. I want to do a pipe class, but I can't figure out how to advertise it and not get the rep of a head shop.
Matt, I took your survey, but I don't know how the questions asked are going to help you decide why classes aren't filling up. Just my .02.

Jane

[roger parramore]

Hey Matt, all -in all, this is a problem I've watched for a lot longer than a few years. Classes started having trouble in about 1998. It wasn't as pronounced then, but the trend was beginning if you were watching for it. In light of this I'm not so sure we can blame the economy. Other factors come into play. I really think we need to look at the general availability of information, books, internet, etc. and the falacies these sources engender. A lot has been said in the above comments, and some I think hits the target. My experience seems to indicate that it is in fact the hobbyists that are willing to shell out the bucks and not those with experience. The problem with the internet etc., is sifting through all the shit to find what is actually useful. When you realize any Bozo (reps to the late Larry Harmon) can sound like an ace when they have a product to sell or an ego to prop up, soon the serious beginner wants some real direction. Too much random information doesn't hold people's attention for long. Soon they want to seek out those with a proven track record to have as a mentor. Another issue is that there are a tremendous number of venues available that weren't available 5 or 10 years ago. So we see the people with the old school reputations spread pretty thin. Problem is, not enough time has elapsed for the next generation to define itself, and even when they do, the general lack of respect is frightful. So because the "information" is so available, people often mistake "knowledge" for ability and experience. So because someone thinks they know how a technique is done they can actually do it with the same expertise as someone with 30 or 40 years experience. So why take a class if you can just get it off the internet. In the immortal words of Frank Zappa (who by the way stole it from T.S Elliott), information is not knowledge, knowledge is not truth. So the general decline in enrollment is a much longer term issue than perhaps you have recognized. Also, it may well be worth noting that it is not only lampworking that is suffering. All the major schools right down to private studios are having trouble. But a few are not. Those few are the tried and true people who have something real to offer. Something which perhaps goes beyond the triple back axis flip with a reverse bitch window. Not saying all that's not cool, but when it comes to laying out cash in hard times, people want to know there is something more than just the latest technique from the latest flash in the pan. Look, a lot of cool work is going on out there, but with everyone giving it away, why pay for a class unless you are assured of getting something more than is available for free? The fallacy of free will eventually run it's course--or it won't. It may well be that the centralized class concept has simply given way to the randomness of the general population of information gatherers.

[somberbear]

well i think its also bang for the buck. i chose agi cause for about what i spend on a regualer class while not as indepth i get more exposure less time , less time spending money on lodging transportation and hunting those resorces. i also know that it isnt even the same as a real class, and i forget more then i learn at agi, but i get exposure to teachers so i can decide if i want to take there class.

the thing is out of the money i make in a year my vaction is agi. and takes around 1500 bucks to 2000 bucks including my slow week down time rate. travel food lodging etc. glass doesnt profit me much but a living honestly. then i got raw and equipment costs. while i can tax write off my classes glass and equipment to a point, its balancing my lights with my learning is what it seams to come down to.

i try to budget like this year 1 trip in the summer sence its hard to work on my normal orders due to heat, and its costing quiet a bit cash to do this i had to save up in order to do it. while thats 1 class out of 400 i could take at the same time.

Its awsome to know scuplture and beads etc. but as my markets take a hit and i have to move with the market i need to plan ahead and look for skill i can adapt into product lines in order to keep it going.

realize i also weld and machine and run a small repair shop. and i have to give over nearly equal time to learning how to shape and do metal work and pay for its over head. maybe im not the best one to view this trend cause i dont teach and i have only been around for like 3 years.

I dont mind that it cost so much for classes , but it is definatly more spendy then book, especialy when your talking new torch or kiln or eye wear money.

i also lucked out with my mentors that got me into it.

but out of an entire year going to agi (and missing gas) as well as one class does strain my budget. i live on the east coast, so there seams to be less glass out here, im in OR and it all over the place. my closest instruction is penland (was going to apply but my schedualing didnt work out with this trip). and that is pretty spendy. i think the experiance is worth it its getting out and doing it.

but getting out and doing it is far easier then actualy getting it done. if i could i would take 10 classes a year. i just cant.

I think things like agi are helpful. i know the teachers more indepth i know how they teach more, and i know who i think i can get along with and really advance me in the directions i wish to. if that equates out to more classes in the long run i dont know.

good luck
rob

[matte eskuche]

i don't know how the questions i asked are going to help me either.. that's precisely the point. if i go about promoting my career as a teacher based solely on what i think i know is the best route i will be leaving many channels unexplored. similarly, if i assist a facility in their advertising, recruitment, format, etc. without trying to get a grasp on the whole of the communities ideas, input, experience, and wishes i'll be providing them a grossly under informed inadequate service.

it's already been quite an eye opener to things i haven't given much thought to and aspects of the overall educational environment that deserve more exploration. that's with just a couple dozen peoples input.

i'm just taking notes on what folks are saying, redundant statements will be just as helpful as the extreme insights. i want to thank you all for commenting and for filling out the survey.

just for literary posterity, it goes like this:

from Frank Zappa's "Packard Goose"

"Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is the best..."

[roger parramore]

Hey Matt, think about it terms of committment. One of the fallacies of the information age is that we can know it all--we can't. Also, if you spend your life trying to know and do it all your own personal voice suffers dramatically. If you want to be a teacher, the best way is to look inside to your own voice and teach that. Committ to yourself and your own voice. THAT is what people will pay the bucks to learn. Everything else they can get from the internet. When it comes to advising the institutions, your best advice is to show purely distinctive work. That is what fills the classes. And yes, I misquoted the Central Scrutinizer, but hey, he misquoted Elliot. And actually I think it's Mary, not the Central Scrutinizer. Oh, well, wrong again.

[matte eskuche]

i absolutely speak with my own voice and teach by my own ideals. in fact, i find my individual voice more and more through the students and the relations i have with them.

it's not about me though, i just want to protect the institutions that for decades have provided such a wealth of knowledge and experience to their students. since most of these schools shy away from pipers as students and especially teachers, they don't draw upon the majority of potential students. regardless of any reason a particular class or teachers class doesn't fill it threatens the schools interest in furthering their flameworking programming.

at any rate, with the compounded reasons for lack of enrollment, the schools suffer and have to cancel classes of the likes of you and i. maybe just i. it's happening to lots of old schoolers with tons of knowledge and unmatchable experience to share.

if they start to cut flameworking out of their budgets due to lack of interest how are you and i going to battle it out in the war between long, strong point handles vs. limp smelly blowhoses?

[roger parramore]

From the perspective of an old schooler who routinely gets beaten up on this forum I can honestly say I wish I had the answers. Unfortunately institutions are under tremendous pressure on many, many fronts. Not one of them wants to be seen as soft toward an art form that is largely perceived as illegal at worst and degenerate at best. But what you say is true, that pool is large for potential students. So the schools are caught between a rock and a hard place. If they teach piping public funding goes away quick as lightening along with arrival of a damaged public perception. If they don't make allowances the student pool is limited. So what happens? The bean counters simply say lampworking isn't worth it when that money could be going to bolster other programs. And they have the hard and fast numbers to back up their decision. It is a very difficult position for everyone. Now that for all intent and purposees "lampworking" has become synonomous with "pipemaking" the troubles just increase. So in all reality the centrally based class structure is likely to disappear when it comes to lampworking. The tradition will live on in various ways. I've worked diligently to bring lampworking to an academic status, but it always has fallen short--for various reasons which have changed as the times and public opinion has changed. Where and how the likes of us will find a forum is unclear. As old schoolers we have a wealth of knowledge--yes, but the perceived value of that knowledge base is deterioating quickly, and much worse I think, is the relevance of that knowledge. Points and blowhoses are great beer conversation, but so much of the lampworking culture is simply concerned with other things. As more and more of the old schoolers just decide it aint worth it anymore, new people step up to brandish the standard. History tells an interesting tale. We just somehow tend to forget we are tomorrow's history.

[Steve Sizelove]

Here are a few quick thoughts, then I have to go make some glass!

Aside from the fact that there are LOTS of venues and LOTS of teachers diluting the market for classes, here are some other thoughts:


From my experience, the early pipemakers were really excited to learn about all of the different artists and objects that could be made using flamework. Many of us jumped at the chance to take classes with RAM or Parramore or O'Grady and the like at the few venues that offered classes.


Maybe I'm wrong, but there doesn't seem to be the same intense interest from pipemakers in the other forms that flamework can take. Pipes seem to be an all consuming quest for some. Maybe it's economic in nature. How can you make anything else when your busy paying the bills? Maybe the echo chamber of the internet has given pipers enough to explore within their peer own community to feel fulfilled. I don't know.....

[matte eskuche]

yeah Steve, it seems you may be right and that that's turning out to be the case. i'm turning the corner on letting it be fine with me. i've always wanted to force the full breadth of flameworking's history and technique on pipemakers in the hopes that with that more comprehensive arsenal they could more fully express themselves through their glass. if people are happy, they are happy. i guess it's good for us in the end anyway, less comp in the markets we're after..

[jane clifton]

I have a good friend and mentor who is also a pipemaker and I am always giving him shit about doing something else with his talent. Not for him to quit making pipes, but to expand his market. He always says he knows he should, but he is making so much money with pipes that it would end up costing him a lot to take up the time to do other art. I can't argue with whats working so I just give him hell when I can. It just seems a shame to me though because he is soooo skilled that if he were to do something more mainstream he would only double his income and maybe not be so bored with pipemaking. I've tried to get him to come and teach some sculpture classes, but because he has no name doing that genre, it doesn't pull enough people.
Its a hard battle to fight.

Jane

[Micah Evans]

Steve and Matt, you guys really hit the nail on the head.

It seems pipemakers would rather learn from pipemakers, and I completely get it. its nowhere near as intimidating, the techniques and application more closely resemble their own working styles and they are often cheaper and more flexible as time and dates of classes.

it frustrates me to know some of these schools may go away and it may actually become more difficult to widen your perspective within glass so easily. it seems pipers no longer need to stray from their bubble to find instruction, which may be a good thing for them in the short term. In the long run though it seems to be amputating a invaluable resource to those who want to widen their skill base and perspective.

[Pakoh]

it seems like you guys are saying pipemakers make up a majority of the students of these classes.

maybe if pipemakers didnt face attitude and degradation from institutions, administrations, and instructors, they would continue to be exceited about classes.

After getting hated on by these places and people for years, it is no wonder that a pipemaker would rather learn from another piper.

[Micah Evans]

yup, you've totally got a point!

[Ben Burton Glass]

I'm out in the middle of no where, and for me traveling costs are the issue. Now with all this gas price BS, my isolated spot is a little farther away then it was before.

If I could I'd still jump at the opportunity to take a class from you Matt, or Steve, or Suellen, or Roger, or many of the other amazing artists out there... But on the same note, I'd jump at a class from Eusheen, Carlson, JAG, Dosher, Banjo, Salt, the whole LGW crew, Slinger, and the list goes on... I'd think I could learn a lot from so many of the artists out there. And then figure out a way to apply it to what I want to make.

I think Steve nailed it like Micah mentioned. Back in the day, all the lampworkers I know were amped when someone was offering a class or workshop to take. Name's like Mickelson and Bubacco and Santini were (and still are) held in the highest esteem.

But along with the other thread Slinger started (Biggest Movement in Glass) it shows that a lot of lampworkers got into the art and are still in it to make pipes. And I give these guys mad Respect. With cost of production I could never make a living out here making pipes. But there are a lot of places that you can, and in those places the lampworkers want to learn more towards what is already making them money and what can make their work better (in turn more valuable)... These are definitely things they'll pick up from another Piper teaching a class, then at say Vittorio Constantini workshop.

I started out as a piper, but wanted to do other things with the medium as well. I'll never stop making pipes, but prodo rarely if ever happens. I want to be known for many other things as well. Sculptural art, Marbles, Goblets, and more. The Mickelson workshops I've taken have been rad and very very educational. The time spent in Murano, working with Lucio Bubacco was amazing. And because of those experiences ALL my work is better. from pendants to pipes, there's always an application for new skills and techniques.

If the opportunity for me to work and study with another high caliber artist came up, I'd definitely be into taking a class. Pipers or Non-Pipers.

If you're out there raising the bar and pushing the limits, TEACH SOMEONE. It is the path to immortality. If you're still coming up and learning, learn from the best. Pay to take a class. It will help you a thousand-fold then if you just work by trial and error on your own. Whatever the class cost may be, consider it an investment in your career. It also helps sustain those who have worked and struggled and paved the road that you now travel. Non-Pipers and Pipers alike.

Just my $.02

Aloha

Oh yeah...
Like I mentioned above I've got huge respect for these guys, their bad-ass work and everthing else they do and provide for the glass community, but I find this to be a little insulting to the other talented artists out there...


chris, i think to myself all the time, why would anyone take classes anywhere besides at your guys" shop. if i wanted a class i would get one on one from j lee, no doubt.

Aren't you in the Bay Area? What about Revere Glass? They get some killer teachers and awesome workshops through there too.

[Steve Sizelove]

it seems like you guys are saying pipemakers make up a majority of the students of these classes.

maybe if pipemakers didnt face attitude and degradation from institutions, administrations, and instructors, they would continue to be exceited about classes.

After getting hated on by these places and people for years, it is no wonder that a pipemaker would rather learn from another piper.
__________________



Do you really feel that slighted? I've been a pipemaker student and an instructor. I have never felt the condemnation that you describe. Maybe an occasional attitude, but nothing so pervasive as to make me not want to take classes.

[superstupid]

Aren't you in the Bay Area? What about Revere Glass? They get some killer teachers and awesome workshops through there too.

:dieslaugh

[Ben Burton Glass]

I must've said something funny, huh SuperStupid?

If Revere isn't the right choice of public facility to use around here, how about Da Factory? Philladelphia Glass School? Austin Flameworks? New Dynasty Glass? Corning? Pilchuck? Penland? I'm sure there are a ton of facilities I'm not listing that host great teachers and have workshops for lampworkers of any kind to learn. I was using Revere as an example because it's a local spot (as far as the original post), and wouldn't require traveling as an extra expense.

Aloha!

[yinzer]

im with you carlson....i got into glass inthe beginning thinking ill just grab up some classes at PGC. almost three years later, i still havent had a single class.

im a broke ass... regardless of the economy(im actually better off now than i was a few years back), location is a big one(hence the whole broke ass thing), also the artist offering classes.

[matte eskuche]

i moved to pittsburgh in 2004 because of the glass center there. i've taken six classes (hot shop, stained glass, and flame) taught two, assisted once, met probably 50 or 60 major players in the field, seen a couple dozen lectures, the list goes on. i can't keep trying to convince people of the immense opportunity these schools give the potential student. just want to get those surveys filled out so i can tunnel under the problem and attack it while it's sleeping. there is no difference between pipes or anything else, if you know how to turn the torch on you're 90% there, then it's just what you do with the shit you put in front of the flame.

i only started this post because i know what is available to be learned out there in the wide world of glass. it has nothing to do with the product you make. it has everything to do with how you approach the glass and how well you understand the glass. every damn person has something to offer, just some have much more depth to their experience.


i've got to agree with Steve, i've seen a lot of students and teachers from all areas of glass, rarely do any of them carry a grudge or express disdain from where you're from within the field, they just want to give you more information. i've seen more disrespect from hot shop peeps towards flameworkers and more disrespect from a wide variety of flameworkers towards bead makers than anything else. whateves, make the shit you like and explore and educate yourself in whatever arena you want to.

[superstupid]

screwed up

[superstupid]

I must've said something funny, huh SuperStupid?

If Revere isn't the right choice of public facility to use around here, how about Da Factory? Philladelphia Glass School? Austin Flameworks? New Dynasty Glass? Corning? Pilchuck? Penland? I'm sure there are a ton of facilities I'm not listing that host great teachers and have workshops for lampworkers of any kind to learn. I was using Revere as an example because it's a local spot (as far as the original post), and wouldn't require traveling as an extra expense.

Aloha!

you didnt say anything funny, it was just funny THAT you said it to who you did. if you would have came here a few weeks ago youd understand. sorry to waste space in this thread.

[Ben Burton Glass]

what'd I miss?? what'd I miss???


Aloha!

[matte eskuche]

seriously kids, this is a post about the state of education in flamework, not about the dog eating your homework.

[yinzer]

i think alot of people gave you some good feedback so far

[Islandglass Man]

Nice thread Matte

I think most of the reasons for low attendance at school classes has been covered. The way the economy is I think that AGI is the best bang for the buck right now. It might not be good for pro instructors but it might mean that "the times they are a changing"

Apprenticing,mentoring, or private lessons will always be popular the big class of 8 might not work for advance learning at this time.

Besides AGI is the only place that I can see all my glass friends once a year

Bear