Can colorants in glass leech?

[Big Jay]

Can the metals present in glass leech into water? Or do the become bound to the glass. I'm talking about on the most minute level. In other words if you made a non encased colored goblet and kept it filled with water for 2 years straight would testing the water show any trace of metal even on the most minute levels like 1 part per million?

[Glass Pyro]

That is a good question, I think they(metals) would definitely cause the ppm of the water or substance to go up over an extended period.

From what I understand glass is always moving, therefore certain molecules may become more available for absorption by the water.

??????

[Big Jay]

I know they say lead in leaded glass can leech so I guess that really answers the question.

[Mac Maestro]

I just dropped a silvery exotic marble in my fish tank. I'll letcha know if the fish kicks the bucket.

[somewhere]

First let me say glass is a solid not a slow moving liquid. That is a urban myth that should be put to rest.

Next so much info to wade thru but here are some facts.

The container industry has been pretty much self regulating and does not allow any actual color or decoration any closer than a half inch from the lip of a drinking vessel. The rule as I know it goes, no lead within 1/2" of the lip and no lead on the inside exposed to the contents. The container industry has had to sign agreements that says there work is in line with these rules.

Some notes from a ICF meeting in 2002.
Reminder to all manufacturers of glassware containing lead of the crystal warning requirement in California.
All accounts need to be send a full 'master memo' that describes the warning program, also for internet sales selling into CA
There are even "bounty hunters" at large like Bill Verick sued dozens of crystal retailers, even Amazon.com

All articles need signs:
Prop 65
WARNING
Leaded Crystal
Consuming foods or beverages that have been kept or served in the following brands of leaded crystal exposes you to lead, a chemical known to the state of california to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm:

They go on about painted glassware, hand to mouth issues,

http://www.calprop65.com/

Here's the one I found to be most interesting and is from Chicago Artists Resource .org

This includes cadmium and more.

Glassware Decoration Limits
In the July Issue of Orton Firing Line, there was a reprint of Peter Cassebeer's article on the decorating industries voluntary standard concerning enameling, with lead and cadmium enamels, on glassware. Cassebeer states that decoration area limits sometimes don't satisfy the standards.

The voluntary standard for the decorating industry for lip and rim limits is based on the ASTM test C-927-80, which provides a test method for lead and cadmium extracted from the lip and rim area of glass tumblers externally decorated with ceramic glass enamels. Within the test procedure, a 2 centimeter distance from the tumbler rim is established as the limit for the lip contact area. The decorating industry has chosen to not decorate above this 2 centimeter mark with lead and cadmium based glass enamels to minimize the potential for consumer exposure to heavy metals.

However, Cassebeer noted that some decorators are using a 3/4 inch decorating limit for tumblers, meaning that they decorate the exterior surface of a tumbler up to, but not above, 3/4 of an inch from the tip rim of a tumbler. Consequently, there is almost one millimeter difference between these measurement.

2 centimeters = 20 millimeters = 0.787 inches

3/4 inches = 0.750 inches = 19.05 millimeters

This tiny discrepancy could make the difference between complying with the decorating industry's voluntary lip and rim standard or not, or selling glassware that meets FDA criteria for a safe product and one which fails. The difference translates to a 5% surface area discrepancy, and also potentially exposes the tumbler to 5% more decorated surface area to be leached from in the ASTM C-927-80 test. If the tumbler was close to the FDA limits for lead and cadmium in the lip and rim area when using 2 centimeters, this extra 5% exposure may be enough to push it over the limits. Glassware decorators are encouraged to use the 3/4 inch measurement as their decorating limit.

This scenario shows how accurate and careful artists and craftspeople must be with their measurements for health, safety, legal, and artistic reasons.


Art Hazard News, Volume 18, No. 4, 1995

[menty666]

I'd say after 2 years, probably. But if you keep in mind the amount of time that a beverage is going to be in a glass in normal use, I'd say it's pretty safe.

Be a good question for Henry, Paul, or Momka though to see if they know. I'd say call the reference desk that the CMOG library but given they have thousands of years of info at their disposal you might not get an answer pertaining to the newest glasses.

[menty666]

First let me say glass is a solid not a slow moving liquid. That is a urban myth that should be put to rest.


Wait a minute...how do you explain the windows they've found that have grown thicker at the bottom than the top over time? While some thickness aberrations are of course due to less modern manufacturing, it all can't be attributed to that.

Also, glass is widely regarded as an amorphous solid, not a liquid. But certainly not a "stable" solid like wood or metal.

As for the self regs, they mostly seem to pertain to leaded glasses, most of the boro glasses aren't, right? I'm sure some colorants are more dangerous than others, for example you don't see red or yellow wine bottles, but the blue/green/amber/clear ones can sit on shelves for ages without making the contents unsafe from the contents of the glass.


edit....never mind the first two paragraphs. I found this (http://math.ucr.edu/home2/baez/physics/General/Glass/glass.html) and it's rational enough I'll take it as fact.

[somewhere]

Geeez Menty I was saving that article and others for Glass Pyro. You just take all the fun out of it.


I'm still reading more, some of the articles cover cadmium and others in enamels. I'll post more as I find it. This is a good question and should have some good answers.

[brettodie]

they didnt "grow" thicker thats how. some older windows were made by hand or put on a sheet roller. when they installed the windows it makes sense to put the thick part down. :) as far as colorents go i talked to a materials science guy from the netheralands several yrs ago about it he was doing research on leeching from non-leaded soft glass glasses ect. if i remember correctly he said the chance of leeching was very small,and had to do with leaving acidic substances in the vessal for prolonged periods of time. peace brett

[Glass Pyro]

Why do automobile windows also start to sag and ripple overtime? I have 20 examples in the back of the machine shop, from an old Cadillac to a Bel-Air.

As a restoration guy, I know I have been replacing rippled windows in cars for years, especially the large 2 door car windows....like an old Malibu or Monte or something.

[Glass Pyro]

I have another question too.

I went to a fort in NY one time and some of the panes of glass had big blobs in them...kinda like a punty mark x100. Do yo know what those were?

As a kid I think they told me they were built in magnifiers, but I dunno bout that.

[Conchis]

Are you talking about that stuff that has a piece of plastic sandwiched between two pieces of glass? I don't think it's the glass that's rippling. I've heard the same thing that brett was talking about on the glass flowing. The variations in thicknesses in the old buildings was caused because old glass was spun out so that they ended up with a huge flat disk that was thicker in the middle than the edges. The conclusion that they reached is that the glass, even though it had been there for hudreds of years, was the same as when it was installed.
Wonder if that "punty mark" is where the disk was attached as they spun it out flat?

[Glass Pyro]

I will have to look at the auto glass better next time I am around the Machine shop, but all I Know is I can feel and see what seems to be ripples in the glass, restoration customers see it also, some like the original glass left in some don't.


As far as the fort windows go, I dunno I have to ask my brother, he remembers stuff better than me, maybe I can find a pic of it or maybe he knows what they really were, they did look like lenses though...sort of.

[brettodie]

more then likely they were the punty marks from spinning out the windows. probably not going to put your highest quality windows in a fort, with explosions ect going off at some point. as far as auto glass goes it has plastic in it that probably whats causing the variations over time. a sheet roller will leave variations in the glass also. i think most car glass is float glass but im not sure. peace brett

[Big Jay]

Contempary Lampworking talks about the stained glass sagging window myth. And says its just that a myth.

[Big Jay]

I'd say after 2 years, probably. But if you keep in mind the amount of time that a beverage is going to be in a glass in normal use, I'd say it's pretty safe.

.

because its not really for a drinking utensil its all part of a project I am to trying work on for someone. After I wrote the question I remember reading about crystal decanters saying they are safe to use if you pour the liquid into it and use it for a night. But for general storage the liquid should be returned to its glass container. But it was too late for me to remove the question.

[Big Jay]

thx for the info somewhere. Much appreciated as always!

[newmexicomagma]

if it were true the lead would have dripped out before the glass even had a chance to move. also all the ancient glass vessals they have found would be in puddles by now if glass moved. i think its pretty obvious its a myth.

[Glass Pyro]

True. I have some pretty old bottles in my "old bottle" collection and they look fine. We also have some antique Italian Glass in the Family that shows no signs of "moving"

[Icarus]

As I always understood it, the movement of glass isn't something that would happen over hundred of years, or even thousands, but would be more realistically measured in tens of thousands of years. So with that in mind, before it was even visually noticeable, the human race would probably be extinct and squids would be earths dominant species... of course I may be wrong.

[Brian Newman]

I went to a fort in NY one time and some of the panes of glass had big blobs in them...kinda like a punty mark x100. Do yo know what those were?



They were the centers from spinning out windows. It is called a "bullseye".

[Abe Fleishman]

I have tests that were done by Coffey Labs in Oregon about salt water and fresh water. I will try to post the info on the forum. There are a few color that leach into water for sure. The myth of solid or liquid I will try to give my understanding about this some other time.
Abe

[Brian Newman]

Glass is either a high viscosity liquid or an amorphous solid, dependig on what definition you want to use. The old windows being thicker at the bottom is not due to them flowing.

[jiminyrootkit]

really old windows are thicker at the bottom because in the days before float glass and even sheet rollers they made sheet by making huge rondels (sp?)
if i understand correctly, you basically get a big gather on a blowpipe and blow it out a lil, open the end, and spin it out into a thin flat disk. then score it into pieces and you have sheet glass....that's thicker at the edges.
$.02
-f

[giraffetech]

for one old windows were made on a blow pipe. they were jus a huge rondel , the center of the disk was thicker and that just happend to be what side was down most of the time, lots of old windows have a thicker part on top. its not like gravity made the glass get thicker on the top.. but glass is a liquid duh, :) i cant blow solid glass.. glass and our planet is like water and pluto, the weather makes it solid, if it was 5000 degrees outside glass would no be a solid. so their for its not technically a solid, but idk if anything is. same with water on earth its warmish and fluid, on some other planet close by like pluto its frozen,(jus pretending water is there!) but i havent read all of this but idk if it will get more honest and up to date then this.
dont let water or whatever sit in colored glass if your going to drink it, do i need to explain why?.. its fine for like a few hours though (like 2 at the most if that). but some things may bring out the metals in the glass i think so i would definitly ask the color companys if they are reactive or whatever. but i would use a cup made with green exotic frit over double amber purple. with silver fumes and the works, i jus wouldnt let water sit in it for hours, same with plastic,

[somewhere]

for one old windows were made on a blow pipe. they were jus a huge rondel , the center of the disk was thicker and that just happend to be what side was down most of the time, lots of old windows have a thicker part on top. its not like gravity made the glass get thicker on the top.. but glass is a liquid duh, :) i cant blow solid glass.. glass and our planet is like water and pluto, the weather makes it solid, if it was 5000 degrees outside glass would no be a solid. so their for its not technically a solid, but idk if anything is. same with water on earth its warmish and fluid, on some other planet close by like pluto its frozen,(jus pretending water is there!) but i havent read all of this but idk if it will get more honest and up to date then this.
dont let water or whatever sit in colored glass if your going to drink it, do i need to explain why?.. its fine for like a few hours though (like 2 at the most if that). but some things may bring out the metals in the glass i think so i would definitly ask the color companys if they are reactive or whatever. but i would use a cup made with green exotic frit over double amber purple. with silver fumes and the works, i jus wouldnt let water sit in it for hours, same with plastic,


So let's see according to your argument anything that melts is a liquid.

Happy trolling giraffetech

[LooseSeal Baller]

for one old windows were made on a blow pipe. they were jus a huge rondel , the center of the disk was thicker and that just happend to be what side was down most of the time, lots of old windows have a thicker part on top. its not like gravity made the glass get thicker on the top.. but glass is a liquid duh, :) i cant blow solid glass.. glass and our planet is like water and pluto, the weather makes it solid, if it was 5000 degrees outside glass would no be a solid. so their for its not technically a solid, but idk if anything is. same with water on earth its warmish and fluid, on some other planet close by like pluto its frozen,(jus pretending water is there!) but i havent read all of this but idk if it will get more honest and up to date then this.
dont let water or whatever sit in colored glass if your going to drink it, do i need to explain why?.. its fine for like a few hours though (like 2 at the most if that). but some things may bring out the metals in the glass i think so i would definitly ask the color companys if they are reactive or whatever. but i would use a cup made with green exotic frit over double amber purple. with silver fumes and the works, i jus wouldnt let water sit in it for hours, same with plastic,

wow this dudes smarter than me

based on that you should blow plastic, instead of glass

[giraffetech]

according to your argument "somewhere", the physical state of mater is not determined by temperature or the enviroment its in, but the physical state of matter is determined by your opinion. look up bpa jack. you didnt even know about it. thats why i used a plastic reference because if you let water sit in some plastics it will leach bpa into your water, seriously though, no actual debate just some ill minded people thinking that everything is either a solid or a liquid,. in reality this is like me saying water is a solid just because its frozen in my freezer. your glass starts freezing at like 1000 degrees, water freezes at like 30 degrees glass is liquid at 2000+ degrees and water is a liquid at about 30+ degree. so if you live somewere were its -50 degrees water is a solid, if you live somewhere were glass is 10000+ degress glass is a total liquid. this isnt light and day, its a adjective grow up fucking loozers you are clearly are to stupid to understand something on such an elementry level

THERE IS NO DEBATE AT TEMPERATURES OVER 10000 DEGREES F. GLASS IS A TOTAL LIQUID JUST LIKE WATER IS AT TEMPERATURES ABOVE 32 DEGREES F.
AND AT TEMPERATURES BELOW 1000 DEGREES GLASS IS A total SOLID SAME WITH WATER AT TEMPS UNDER 32 DEGREES F.

since people like to comment on things that they have no idea about here a few top links a found while searching about bpa.

http://children.webmd.com/environmental-exposure-head2toe/bpa

http://www.fda.gov/%20newsevents/publichealthfocus/ucm064437.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/bpa-dangers

[Jimi The Don]

@ What Temperature Do Spelling And Grammar Become Solid?

[hashmasta-kut]

if enough people confirm for you that you dont understand, maybe it will sink in.


If glass is a liquid or solid debate is applied to at room temperature. Or basically, the temperature range we live in. Discussing 10,000 degrees is moot. Some believe glass is a liquid at room temperature, others who have studied more say its much more complicated than that.

[giraffetech]

Happy trolling Barry-Allen and somewhere hope you feel better knowing you disagreed with extremely common sense statement that anyone with a fucking pyrex dish knows, but wait im going to ask you a question again "somewhere", so lets see according to your argument anything that freezes its a solid. correct? so if glass freezes at 1000 degrees its a solid? or since it melts at idk say 5000 degrees does that make it a liquid? which one? come on you seamed really confident it calling me a troll. pick the answer. and technically glass is frozen so its a solid form of a liquid. when i make a pipe, i get the glass liquidy and let it "freeze" in the spot i want it, when glass is made they put a bunch of stuff together melt it pull out tubes and rods and let it cool (aka freeze) i never said glass flows at room temp , thats fairly ridiculous im just saying it isnt a solid. god i feel like im trying to explain sex to a damn 5 year old

[Jimi The Don]

Room Temperature Means The Temperature In a Room. However, If The Room Was On The Sun It Would Be a Gas, Meaning The Room (Not Having Walls) Wouldn't Exist. So Glass In This Room Would Actually Just Be Glass On The Sun! And Since The Sun Is So Warm, The Glass Would Be a Liquid!

[Jimi The Don]

So Molten Iron That Has Cooled Is a Liquid? Wait, When Do i Put On The Condom?

[giraffetech]

haha! sense when is the @ sign propper grammer? and your talking shit. and im not fucking wrong! i never looked at the molicules but i damn well know it gets liquidly when its hot and thats all i ever said aside from the fact it freeses just like water. please coppy and paste were i said "glass flows at room temp" or anything close to that because i neever said that children, k thanks again, glass flows at high temps and freezes at low temps, wow is it that fucking hard to agree with? hahah k guys im wrong!!! you all can go stick your thumbs up your asses again

[giraffetech]

@Jimmi The Don and who trys to talk shit on someone for spelling and grammer when the capitalize every word in the sentence ? "What Temperature Do Spelling And Grammar Become Solid?"

[Bo Diddles]

You're making a fool of youself giraffe. Seriously.

[Jimi The Don]

since Text messages Were Created? Or Emails? Shorthand?

[Icarus]

Happy trolling Barry-Allen and somewhere hope you feel better knowing you disagreed with extremely common sense statement that anyone with a fucking pyrex dish knows, but wait im going to ask you a question again "somewhere", so lets see according to your argument anything that freezes its a solid. correct? so if glass freezes at 1000 degrees its a solid? or since it melts at idk say 5000 degrees does that make it a liquid? which one? come on you seamed really confident it calling me a troll. pick the answer. and technically glass is frozen so its a solid form of a liquid. when i make a pipe, i get the glass liquidy and let it "freeze" in the spot i want it, when glass is made they put a bunch of stuff together melt it pull out tubes and rods and let it cool (aka freeze) i never said glass flows at room temp , thats fairly ridiculous im just saying it isnt a solid. god i feel like im trying to explain sex to a damn 5 year old

I don't know what your issue is, but allow me to just state for the record, Somewhere knows more about glass than you do. He possibly knows more about glass than the rest of us combined. You are totally out of your league on this one.

Also, don't explain sex to a five year old. That's creepy.

Now try to play nicely.

[Jimi The Don]

Do You Have Any Idea How Thyme Consuming It Is To Type Like This! Also, There's a Difference Between Poetic License And Proper Grammar.

[giraffetech]

ok im done! you have no brain sorry. haha and is glass thats melted a solid? your fucking retarded! "So Molten Iron That Has Cooled Is a Liquid? Wait, When Do i Put On The Condom?" stop trying to talk shit, you basically call me dumb and cant even make a propper sentence. it wouldnt be molten iron that cooled it would be just iron DUH, and yes its a frozen liquid just like ICE and glass,

[giraffetech]

ok tmp im wrong im sincerely am sorry for claiming glass starts of liquid then freezes at room temp. sorry. sorry for stating the obvious , none of you were smart enough to undertand obviously

[giraffetech]

please for the record, copy and paste every bit of mis info i posted and explain in detail how it was wrong.

[giraffetech]

"but glass is a liquid duh, i cant blow solid glass.. glass and our planet is like water and pluto, the weather makes it solid, if it was 5000 degrees outside glass would no be a solid. so their for its not technically a solid, but idk if anything is. same with water on earth its warmish and fluid, on some other planet close by like pluto its frozen,(jus pretending water is there!)"

this little sentence really hurt some peoples feelings

rule number one, if if you didnt say it its not your opionion so get over it,

rule number two if someone else says something, it its there opionion weather or not they state that its there opinion in the first place.

rule number 3 this was a fucking HALF joke, i dont claim to know all the answers so when someone says something you dont agree with say, interesting, here is why i think your wrong but here is what i thought held up. INSTEAD of just calling someone out with no proof or reason why there wrong then saying they are the ones who look stupid! but i hope i look stupid to all of you becuase that means i dont look as stupid as you do for calling someone out with no debate or no proof. or info

[Greymatter Glass]

giraffetech,

In this thread alone there's people with well over a combined 100 years of experience working hot glass. The issues you're bringing up, and the "science" you feel is the foundation for your knowledge isn't entirely wrong, but much of it is disputable. There are a few points that are kind of ... out there....

For one thing, when discussing temperatures it's important to define the metric, or unit of measurement, you're using. When discussing matters of scientific importance the general unit is degrees Celcius (centigrade), and that will often be the assumption unless clearly stated otherwise.

At 10,000ºC most glass would have passed well beyond it's liquid state and into the range of plasma.

Also, not all glass is created equal.There is glass that melts at about 300ºC, well below even 1000ºF, so making blanket statements that all glass is solid below 1000º is, factually, inaccurate.

Here s some information on vanadium oxide glasses: http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/121126a.html


So, keep in mind that the people who are posting here are not all children, and not all new to concepts of glass, science, physics, or chemistry. Some of us actually study these things for fun in our spare time....

-Doug

[jr23]

Looking pretty bad yo glass does not freeze at room temp. You are just flat wrong. Your logic is flawed that's all.
Hit the books look up frozen. Water gets it crystal structure on to freeze. Glass hardens at a temp based on type.
Your right in your brain and if that's good for you then its fine by me.
Its kinda a proverb or something ignorance is bliss.

On this subject I would say you are mighty bliss.

[Jimi The Don]

if i Had a daughter With Down Syndrome I'd Be Insulted By That. Using That Word Is Insensitive, Insulting Other Members Is Foolish, And Provoking You To Keep Responding Is What Makes This Thread Humorous.

[jw721]

From what I remember from physics class, a liquid has free flowing particles. Just a bit of advice giraffe, you might want to tone down your attitude, I don't know if you are a glassblower, trying to be one, or just someone here for some good old fashioned trolling, but pissing everyone here off won't get you very far.

[Jimi The Don]

ooo..ooo.. Is This The Same Dilly Outta My Willy Person?! I'm The First To Call It If It Is!

[jw721]

ooo..ooo.. Is This The Same Dilly Outta My Willy Person?! I'm The First To Call It If It Is!

I was just wondering that myself, lol.

[kbinkster]

I think it's ironic that a week or two ago, the big thing on Facebook was to change your profile picture to that of a giraffe if you failed to correctly answer a riddle. As a result, there were a lot of giraffes on Facebook. Now we have someone named "giraffetech" posting some questionable material. Coincidence?

[jr23]

He is a chain tanker for sure. You can tell but if he would go on for a bit more I will watch.

[Dan Kooper]

Pluto isn't a planet

[willy47]

Urnaus is more than just a hole inbetween your cheeks

[giraffetech]

im fantastically offended, it all started because i gave my opinion on two subjects previously mentioned and then the one subject on the thread, um idk how long this has been made kim but more then a week or two. i can have a favorite animals cant i?(for the record i got licked by a giraffe at a zoo when i was around 5 years old it was kinda cool probably has an effect on that name) but back to what i was saying, i gave my opinion and i got called a troll for what? i gave my opinion thats not trolling, and i never said glass freezes and room temp, HAHA wow dont call me stupid. i said the same thing 50 times. glass melts and its a liquid, when its not melted its "frozen" when its not frozen its metled, blam there is nothing wrong with that simple statement . i also said if you lived on a hotter planet glass would naturally be melted aka liquid/fluid. very simple and obvious statement, (yet you still dissagree?) , but i could have said at room temp glass is frozen, but that does not mean glass freezes at room temp. no kiddies i dont mean ice crystle frozen. you should know what i mean when i say the glass freezes at room temp. HAHA and i get called a troll and dumb? this is ridiculous. and ok guys sorry some one here exagerated a bit, i figured if i said 10000 degrees people would get the point that its hot, or 30 degrees i figured they would think oh thats cold. sorry for exaggerating? i wasnt trying to act like i know what temp glass actually melts at, because according to what i read, it doesnt melt at a difinite temp like metal. so sorry for exargerating sorry for givng my opinion sorry for spelling a few things wrong sorry for liking giraffes sorry most of you are just confused and misread everything i wrote, im also sorry you think im fake, im sorry that you guys are so rude offensive to someone thats putting his time and energy and love into trying to help someoneone. yeah i gave a few numbers that i meant loosly, i had no intention in people thinking that thoughs were meaning full numbers, more of a variable, more of a mile marker saying the glass is definitly melted and definitly hardend, im beyond offended by 99% of you, i agree i came off wrong and where you guys pointed that out i thank you, but you have no reason to be that offensive, use your head, if i was fake/a trol/anything other then someone out there trying to do there best i would have a bunch of pictures of all the amazing stuff "i" made, but no in reality im no glass master i dont have any pictures,, why? because i have nothing beautiful to show. i am just a begininer but i know alot. im what they call austic my brain works slightly different then yours, i can learn at a pretty rapid pace and take in more then most. and kbinkster, arent you with willy or wally? sorry i get confused! idk who's who!, you wouldnt want me or anyone for that matter to say you use him for money, and its very wrong for anyone to assume something like that, and its also wrong for you to assume i am a fraud, this isnt the tmp, this is just mostly big group of egotistical people talking bad about me, and i may not be 100% right but all i am is someone out there doing there best, atleast im not out there criticizing people for doing the best they can and making them feel even worse about them selfs, thanks.

[giraffetech]

wait, now im getting confused, glass does freeze at room temp you are just confusing me and made me say it doesnt and say it does, but thats besides the point, im wrong kk cool i honestly dont care it wasnt about being right or wrong its just my opinion my thoughts, congrats for establishing that. but to clairfy because it looks dumb, glass freezes at room temp ( if i take a gather of multen glass it will quickly "freeze" in any shape i want. if left out of the torch ) i feel like no one understands all i was saying is that glass is a liquid at a certian temp and its a solid at a certian temp. there again! your still probably gong to disagree and be rude though
please before you think my name again call corning and ask them if this statement is correct, if it is correct please say your sorry, if its wrong then im sorry.

(this is all i ment by the original post so anyone else who wants to call me dumb there you go.)

"glass is a liquid at a certian temp and its a solid at a certian temp" forget the numbers they were exargerations, forget the planets it was just fun to involve them forget everything excpet the fact that i said this "glass is a liquid at a certian temp and its a solid at a certain temp" and stop criticizing me for it and calling ME dumb

[Mr.P0rn]

I didn't read that last wall of text, but the one thing I have been thinking as I read this thread is that glass doesn't "freeze" As I think JR Mentioned, it hardens back to a more stable state, but it does not "freeze" This may seem a bit like nitpicking, but considering the subject at hand is the state of matter, it seems relevant.

[Icarus]

I must say that I find this debate absolutely fascinating and would gladly read three to five more pages of it. Perhaps we could also start debating "what is art and what is craft, and who is an artist and who is a craftsman? as well. I don't think that particular topic has been discussed enough either. I think a good rehashing is definitely in order.

[Bo Diddles]

You forgot "what's the best torch for a beginner?" Icky.

[jw721]

Lol Icarus, careful what you wish for.

Giraffe, calm down man. No one wants to personally insult/offend you, you have just stumbled upon one of the hotly debated topics around here. This place can be a great source of knowledge for someone just beginning, and most of these people who you feel are picking on you will gladly answer most questions for people just starting out, as long as it hasn't been covered 20 times already. They can be a lot of help to you along the way so long as you don't piss them off.

[Icarus]

You forgot "what's the best torch for a beginner?" Icky.

Why, a GTT Cobra of course. You can barely blow glass without one.

[Necoras]

First and foremost: Sentences. Grammar exists for a reason. It is very difficult to understand what are saying when your paragraph ignores all conventions of punctuation, capitalization, and homophone selection.

Next, those in this thread who say "glass does not freeze" are correct. Technically freezing is the shift between a liquid and solid state. Glass obviously does this. However, what it does not do is crystallize. Water crystallizes. Iron crystallizes. Stone crystallizes. Glass does not. Glass vitrifies. The vitrification process is specifically not freezing.

Vitrification is a process where a liquid hardens without crystallizing. It does not occur at a specific temperature in the way that water freezes (crystallizes) at 0 centigrade. Rather it moves slower and slower as it cools until it just stops moving.

This process is very important to understand when working with glass. Water, or wax, or iron (which freeze) will not crack if you cool it down quickly. Glass will. This is because when a material crystallizes the molecular structure changes and locks in place. In glass there is no preferred structure. The molecules aren't arranged in any particular pattern. This is in fact what defines a substance as a glass. The reason this causes cracking is because any stress you introduce into the glass, by heating and shaping it, remains there after it vitrifies. If the temperature drops below the glass's transition temperature before all of that stress has been allowed to dissipate the stress will crack the glass. We call the process of keeping the glass at a temperature above its transition point (the temperature below which the molecules can no longer move freely), but below its molten point (the temperature where the mass of glass itself is able to move) annealing. This is all different from freezing (crystallization) where molecules snap into place below their freezing temperature.

[kbinkster]

I was just kidding around and pointing out the irony about the giraffe invasion on Facebook. I wasn't saying that you were fake. It's just funny timing and my comment is a nod to the numerous conspiracy theorists who read this forum (especially the paranoid ones - you know who you are... and so do I). I like giraffe's, too, btw. I didn't mean to make you feel bad about yourself. I'm sorry about that.


im fantastically offended, it all started because i gave my opinion on two subjects previously mentioned and then the one subject on the thread, um idk how long this has been made kim but more then a week or two. i can have a favorite animals cant i?(for the record i got licked by a giraffe at a zoo when i was around 5 years old it was kinda cool probably has an effect on that name) but back to what i was saying, i gave my opinion and i got called a troll for what? i gave my opinion thats not trolling, and i never said glass freezes and room temp, HAHA wow dont call me stupid. i said the same thing 50 times. glass melts and its a liquid, when its not melted its "frozen" when its not frozen its metled, blam there is nothing wrong with that simple statement . i also said if you lived on a hotter planet glass would naturally be melted aka liquid/fluid. very simple and obvious statement, (yet you still dissagree?) , but i could have said at room temp glass is frozen, but that does not mean glass freezes at room temp. no kiddies i dont mean ice crystle frozen. you should know what i mean when i say the glass freezes at room temp. HAHA and i get called a troll and dumb? this is ridiculous. and ok guys sorry some one here exagerated a bit, i figured if i said 10000 degrees people would get the point that its hot, or 30 degrees i figured they would think oh thats cold. sorry for exaggerating? i wasnt trying to act like i know what temp glass actually melts at, because according to what i read, it doesnt melt at a difinite temp like metal. so sorry for exargerating sorry for givng my opinion sorry for spelling a few things wrong sorry for liking giraffes sorry most of you are just confused and misread everything i wrote, im also sorry you think im fake, im sorry that you guys are so rude offensive to someone thats putting his time and energy and love into trying to help someoneone. yeah i gave a few numbers that i meant loosly, i had no intention in people thinking that thoughs were meaning full numbers, more of a variable, more of a mile marker saying the glass is definitly melted and definitly hardend, im beyond offended by 99% of you, i agree i came off wrong and where you guys pointed that out i thank you, but you have no reason to be that offensive, use your head, if i was fake/a trol/anything other then someone out there trying to do there best i would have a bunch of pictures of all the amazing stuff "i" made, but no in reality im no glass master i dont have any pictures,, why? because i have nothing beautiful to show. i am just a begininer but i know alot. im what they call austic my brain works slightly different then yours, i can learn at a pretty rapid pace and take in more then most. and kbinkster, arent you with willy or wally? sorry i get confused! idk who's who!, you wouldnt want me or anyone for that matter to say you use him for money, and its very wrong for anyone to assume something like that, and its also wrong for you to assume i am a fraud, this isnt the tmp, this is just mostly big group of egotistical people talking bad about me, and i may not be 100% right but all i am is someone out there doing there best, atleast im not out there criticizing people for doing the best they can and making them feel even worse about them selfs, thanks.

[kbinkster]

Why, a GTT Cobra of course. You can barely blow glass without one.

I hope you meant the Quadzilla version Cobra. Regular Cobras are so 2012.

[Icarus]

I hope you meant the Quadzilla version Cobra. Regular Cobras are so 2012.

Of course. Those old ones are really only good for doorstops.

[Jimi The Don]

lukem5 Or Glassified, Even The Structure Of The Posts Is Similar

[jr23]

You mean freeze stick um up like an old bank robber. I got it now bra.

You stated it then used the ice to compare it . While talking about states of matter.

While calling us kids, cussing, and writing paragraphs of back peddle.

I hate to say it cause it gets jimmy the don all worked up, but.

You are pretty butt hurt over this.

I would recommend throwing a 40 mil rod in the freezer and ease er in to relive the pain.

[jr23]

First and foremost: Sentences. Grammar exists for a reason. It is very difficult to understand what are saying when your paragraph ignores all conventions of punctuation, capitalization, and homophone selection.

Next, those in this thread who say "glass does not freeze" are correct. Technically freezing is the shift between a liquid and solid state. Glass obviously does this. However, what it does not do is crystallize. Water crystallizes. Iron crystallizes. Stone crystallizes. Glass does not. Glass vitrifies. The vitrification process is specifically not freezing.

Vitrification is a process where a liquid hardens without crystallizing. It does not occur at a specific temperature in the way that water freezes (crystallizes) at 0 centigrade. Rather it moves slower and slower as it cools until it just stops moving.

This process is very important to understand when working with glass. Water, or wax, or iron (which freeze) will not crack if you cool it down quickly. Glass will. This is because when a material crystallizes the molecular structure changes and locks in place. In glass there is no preferred structure. The molecules aren't arranged in any particular pattern. This is in fact what defines a substance as a glass. The reason this causes cracking is because any stress you introduce into the glass, by heating and shaping it, remains there after it vitrifies. If the temperature drops below the glass's transition temperature before all of that stress has been allowed to dissipate the stress will crack the glass. We call the process of keeping the glass at a temperature above its transition point (the temperature below which the molecules can no longer move freely), but below its molten point (the temperature where the mass of glass itself is able to move) annealing. This is all different from freezing (crystallization) where molecules snap into place below their freezing temperature.

Thanks I was going to link him to this info . He just went off the deep end of the pool.

[Jimi The Don]

If i Had a Daughter With Butt Hurt syndrome, I'd Be Pretty Insulted By That..

[byron3]

Just because your daughter has it?? I know you have chronic butt hurt syndrome, but damn if I knew it was genetic!!
And why would you be insulted if your daughter was a chip off the ole block??

[jw721]

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