will and wally....

[michaelangeloglass]

Can you please make it so we can run the torches on this stuff ...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z36DQlxbTto



I think there is potential there I like what he says about the colors:o)


I'll take

1 studio
1 house
1 car

and fuck it

an airplane that runs on this as well lol

[Glass Pyro]

UH OH, take this down before doug sees it.

[harpentuan]

Hey Super Mario,
you brought up a forbidden topic

[Dale M.]

No, not another brown's gas thread..........

Dale

[jane clifton]

Oh man, how cool would that be!!!

[Micah Evans]

wait for it.....wait for it..........

[Greymatter Glass]

damnit.....

too late.

Yes you can melt glass with Browns gas.

Yes you can melt glass with the so called "new" HHO technology.

Yes you can generate enough to run a GTT Viper, or 57 of them if you had reason to.

Yes GTT can probably make you a torch tuned to run on hydrogen and oxygen. Currently there are plenty of glass torches capable of running on a hydrogen mixture.


LAAAA-DEEEE-FRICKIN-DAAAAH.

Propane and liquid oxygen are much much cheaper.

Electricity costs are set to skyrocket. This process requires LOTS of electricity.

Hydrogen flames are nearly invisible, making them somewhat more of a fire/burn hazard than propane.

Hydrogen burns way too hot for most boro applications.

Sometimes reduction is desirable. If you can't get a neutral and oxidizing flame you have your stuff set up wrong, fix the problem before switching gear.

....

ok I'm done.

He didn't suggest it was the wave of the future or free energy like most people do - asking if it could be adapted to work glass is a valid (even if sort of "duh") question.

But the cons currently out-weigh the pros by a heavy margin.

-Doug

[Glass Pyro]

But the cons currently out-weigh the pros by a heavy margin.

-Doug

Booyah. Straight to the point.

[jr23]

yes but the cool part was the old fellows torch, most hho torches are litlle micro piss ant flames. but whats up with the beads done with acetylene. Its like the were afraid to show side by sides with propane flame beads , who in the world beads with acetylene.

Ps we should go over to dudes studio and see if he will let us rage some fume bats to check out his system I dont have a account so I cant ask but I would.

[tilman]

the funny thing is he is showing beads as comparison but he acctually heats up copper balls and rolls them in enamels. so the comparison with the glass beads doesnt make sense to me, also the acetelyne doesnt make sense to me. i could see the hho flame being a really nice flame to heat those copper balls up fast though

[michaelangeloglass]

hmmmmmm, well then dismiss all that was said here in discrip detail.

Here's the the deal....

If you were to tell me that a 30 ton piece of steel would fly, I would tell you you were crazy, until I've seen it .

[Chris Juedemann]

Hey Super Mario,
you brought up a forbidden topic

http://tenerife-training.net/Tenerife-News-Cycling-Blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/mario-cipollini-specialized-zebra-skinsuit.jpg

Ummm, this is the real Super Mario.

[Chris Juedemann]

lol.. didn't even notice Hincapie in third.. again...

[Spider]

Down hill crashes & podium girls1

[Greymatter Glass]

How much extra electricity would that produce?

I think it would in-fact produce way more electricity then it would take to run the furnace/torch...

You all see what I'm getting @?


http://www.bureau-13.com/icon/moron.gif

I see what you're getting at and you're just plain wrong.

You CANNOT get more energy out of a system than you put in.

Read this before you post again, please. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics

[kbinkster]

Ah, but you're completely discounting the alien technology factor, Doug.

[Chris Juedemann]

Down hill crashes & podium girls1

Hincapie's wife ;)

You saw that today, the S.A. going over the cliff? The ex-barloworld rider :tongue2:

I had the kid on my lap, helping me sort stringer, and liberating the coverage from a German website. He went off, I jumped up and thought "dead".... my kid pointed at the screen and said, "no no no...".

[Chris Juedemann]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-7va4Amv5Ds&feature=related

[michaelangeloglass]

alot of heat = alot of energy

[somberbear]

yep , heat = alot of wasted energy in most systems...... you dont destroy it or create it , but somethings have better energy conversions then others.....you have to figure out if its useful energy.... are you looking for heat and how its applyed.... the energy to rip water appart by cracking it takes tons of energy... you can make ozone by zapping it with enough juice... and o3 is a great oxydizer.... you are rending electron shell bonds thats not easy in a stable molicule like say water...

my biggest problem is that i have yet to see a real techincal paper on these process machines.... i mean honestly if the principles of these machines are so close to unity and there selling it surely they understand the process and can demo it repeatably of course.... even the patents that have been granted over this tech is murky.....

but browns gas is horribly reducing on its own.... so now in order to get flame ranges your having to pump in tons of electricity and oxy..... plus the whole premix safty issues....

we can make a 30 ton block of steel fly across the room or say over 125 miles but thats just using well established laws of physics.... there called rail guns and there working on putting them on battle ships now....

for all the new machines i have seen.... with every type of hype its just that....they all plug in and you never see there power bills. they all seam a to run on a tried and true electrolosys system just fancier.... and you can make one of those with a home depot yourself in a a day.....

If you wanna play go for it just dont expect me to be impressed.... the possibility that there is a process out there that can do as some claim can exist and not known or refined enough yet. but till you can give actual repeatable results whats the point..... theres tons of stuff out there on perpetual motion and sterling engines saving the world some work some work well but still spendy .... i mean if you can get yoru hands on it you can build a small nuke reactor....

rob

[Greymatter Glass]

Browns Gas, by it's very nature, cannot reduce.

Reduction comes from an over abundance of unburned carbon molecules as the hydrogen that comes with burning hydrocarbon fuels.

Since Browns gas is essentially hydrogen and oxygen there's very little carbon in the system - just what's in the atmosphere that shares the same space as the flame. rarely enough for incandescence, let alone to reduce your work piece.

Come on Rob, I thought you were with me on this stuff.


Mike - I'm trying hard no to give you an infraction for contributing to the degrade of reason and science in America - it's a heavy weight. Read the wikipedia article on thermodynamics before you express anymore unfounded/uneducated opinions on energy. please.


-Doug

[nodice]

What if you don't pay for electricity? Would that make it cost efficient? I work in a place where they don't charge the individual studios for electricity. It's just assumed that the rent covers the electricity. Course gas is also included in my rent, so.......

[matte eskuche]

i've been melting satake with a magnifying glass, does that count?

[Dale M.]

What if you don't pay for electricity? Would that make it cost efficient? I work in a place where they don't charge the individual studios for electricity. It's just assumed that the rent covers the electricity. Course gas is also included in my rent, so.......

I would bet if they saw a 50% increase in electrical usage the "agreement" would change........

Guys this is like spending $100 to get $10 worth of energy....

The technology is not there yet..... Big industry is spending millions of dollars can not do it effectively yet, how can Joe Fuzznuts do it with a microwaveoven and a garden hose......

Dale

[matte eskuche]

also, isn't of a moral imperative that we don't burn shit-tonnes of coal and spew all that jizz in to the atmosphere just to satisfy our ideas of new and better energy?

[nodice]

also, isn't of a moral imperative that we don't burn shit-tonnes of coal and spew all that jizz in to the atmosphere just to satisfy our ideas of new and better energy?

Course the flame of the torch would burn much cleaner then with propane. Maybe burning 10 times as much coal compared to propane is still better for the environment? I wouldn't know........

[somberbear]

sorry doug i was just thinking you have a whole lot more fuel floating around then you have oxy to couple but i believe your right... i have played with hydrogen and it is totaly un kind to cryons colors lol it makes most stuff boil if i remeber right and theres no real focus with a fluffy flame like that....

i guess ill have to hit the books and see what the mix is like and ration to burn hydrogen cleanly. i remeber lots of water around hydrogen torchs i still like my yummy hydro carbons....

rob

[Greymatter Glass]

Reduction is the process of carbon stripping oxygen from a material.

As there is no carbon in a hydrogen/oxygen flame there cannot be reduction.

Hydrogen burns VERY hot, crayons off-gas when they get hot. That's why it boils - reduction has nothing to do with it.

If you have more hydrogen than oxygen you'll just get a bigger hydrogen flare as the hydrogen must venture further into the atmosphere to grab the oxygen it needs to burn. If you introduce oxygen at the tip of thr torch you wind up with a mroe focused flame in a smaller area, but no matter what they "excess" hydrogen will eventually burn off.

If it gets hot enough it can strip the oxygen from CO2, resulting in free carbon, which can reduce things - but in the case of glass I think it would be difficult if not impossible to do with a torch.

...

-Doug

[phab]

...thats got to be hot carls uncle. the only people seriously using hydrogen are quartz scientific glass blowers that ive heard of. i know they use herbert arnold and ilmenauer burners specificly ported for hydrogen and probably others too but i bet you already knew that. im just breaking in a new modem, thank you.

[michaelangeloglass]

Reduction is the process of carbon stripping oxygen from a material.


Hydrogen burns VERY hot, crayons off-gas when they get hot. That's why it boils - reduction has nothing to do with it.



-Doug

Very Hot:o)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_engine

Do the math Doug, I am and its complicated, but doesn't seem to be ruled out by any means. At least I'm exploring ......



And as a side note:

“The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.”

http://www.hytechapps.com/

[Micah Evans]

Very Hot:o)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterling_engine

Do the math Doug, I am and its complicated, but doesn't seem to be ruled out by any means. At least I'm exploring ......



And as a side note:

“The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it.”

http://www.hytechapps.com/



please explore the search tool to look at old threads on this topic so we don't have to watch Doug bitch slap anyone else!

thanks:blowkiss:

[michaelangeloglass]

Does Doug work for a large Energy company or something, Look I'm going to leave this topic alone so Doug can get some sleep tonight. lol

But seriously I have alot of fun talking to Willy and Wally about these types of things that should not be ruled out as impossible because it challenges my thinking pattern.

I wasn't informed that these topics left such a dry substace in the minds of some of the members here.

Proceed in glass talk and sorry for the disruption Doug;o)

MMMMM... So how about that fuming..... lol

[Primathon]

Reduction is the process of carbon stripping oxygen from a material.

As there is no carbon in a hydrogen/oxygen flame there cannot be reduction.

Hydrogen burns VERY hot, crayons off-gas when they get hot. That's why it boils - reduction has nothing to do with it.

If you have more hydrogen than oxygen you'll just get a bigger hydrogen flare as the hydrogen must venture further into the atmosphere to grab the oxygen it needs to burn. If you introduce oxygen at the tip of thr torch you wind up with a mroe focused flame in a smaller area, but no matter what they "excess" hydrogen will eventually burn off.

If it gets hot enough it can strip the oxygen from CO2, resulting in free carbon, which can reduce things - but in the case of glass I think it would be difficult if not impossible to do with a torch.

...

-Doug

You're close, but that's a bit misleading. Reduction has nothing to do with carbon or oxygen specifically; more with high-energy atoms and electron transfer. Reduction can be defined simply by a decrease in oxidation number for a given atom.

I will agree with you that in a traditional oxy/propane flame, the propane primarily acts as the reducing agent. However, given how many different metals end up in a finished piece (once color is added) and the high-energy environment, I wouldn't be surprised to see reduction take place even in the absence of a hydrocarbon gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduction_(chemistry)

[jr23]

Did you not know Doug's great great Grandpa worked for Edison chasing Tesla to steal his Ideas and crush zero point and unity energy Theory . Doug also works for the Government is the same capacity cruising various forums and bashing all H Ho threads. While the whole time He commutes to area 51 to work on said theory, He even has a Major/minor that burns browns gas. He uses it on the weekends at area 51 lamp working shop that makes parts for various secret Projects. Remember anybody that against something always digs it on the side!!

Yes i ment to say H Ho gas bitches!



Later all day

[Greymatter Glass]

dude, I told you. that's like super DUPER top secret shit man.... you're so gonna be in jail tomorrow.....

Prima - good info. There are other redux reactions, and the presence of various substances in the glass COULD be a source, but I still maintain that in a pure oxygen/hydrogen environment there'd be no reduction caused by the hydrogen directly. I could be wrong - I've only played briefly with a hydrogen torch, and not really with glass per se.

-Doug

[Greymatter Glass]

Heh - to make thinsg a little more confused....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogenation

reduction with hydrogen.

So I should refine my statement.

I don't believe you'd get any reduction of silver, forming what we typically refer to as "haze" with a hydrogen flame.

What we as lampworkers refer to as a reducing flame refers specifically to the over abundance of carbon atoms and their ability to react with certain colorants. There for "reduction" in glass general refers to the carbon variety of reduction.

Although I'd not be surprised to hear Al also is a reduction agent in glass, in which case you might still have that problem...

learning a little on this one :)

-Doug

[Ubatuba]

But I thought google knew EVERYTHING!

[Greymatter Glass]

lol.

I was wondering when you'd chime in.

[Spider]

Hincapie's wife ;)

You saw that today, the S.A. going over the cliff? The ex-barloworld rider :tongue2:

I had the kid on my lap, helping me sort stringer, and liberating the coverage from a German website. He went off, I jumped up and thought "dead".... my kid pointed at the screen and said, "no no no...".


Hey Chris - you're kid isn't as jaded as you are yet! Someday it may be yes,yes yes. Seriously, hope the rider was ok - did they ever retrieve the dude's bike?

[Chris Juedemann]

Hey Chris - you're kid isn't as jaded as you are yet! Someday it may be yes,yes yes. Seriously, hope the rider was ok - did they ever retrieve the dude's bike?

Sorry to thread hijack..

The commentators, at least on the British audio feed, speculated a fan would grab it. Sounds crazy for a $20K bike, but last year, on one of the spring classics, a rider crashed on the final cobbled climb. Two spectators ran up, the rider said he was relived to have assistance... only to have them remove both Zipp rims and run off with $8000 of wheels. The Director Sportif rolled up, and got the living hell beat out of him as he tried to get them back. Almost like going to a Polish football match.

Best story of that area (from that stage) was, way back in the day, a lone rider set out on a breakaway.. as he climbed the Alps, he accepted any drinks handed to him by the spectators.. which included Wine, Cognac, and Champagne..

He passed out, solidly drunk, under a tree up the climb a bit. He slept for quite a while, then woke up, jumped on the bike, and rode off down the route for the win. He met the peloton coming up the climb, as he had set off in the wrong direction.

Vive Le Tour!

Chris