Art vs Pipes. $1000 a day.

[FoggyMountain]

Not to say that pipes are not art. It is just that a friend of mine is trying to get me to switch to just art. Something to look at instead of something to use basically.

I tell him that i have a demand that can't be stopped with pipes and that is what pays my rent. Is there really a high demand for art?

He claims that people doing glass art are making $1000+ per day. Is that true? If so what are you making?????

[VED]

if thats true im never making a pipe again. but for some reason i have never sold ne of my "art" i usually only make that kind of stuff for gifts.

[gypsea]

$352,000.00 a year? sure, there are whole lot of glassblowers in that range.

[FoggyMountain]

Same here. The only art i can get rid of is marbles. And lately selling on ebay i am making like $15 for a marble I spend like an hour and a half on! I am making glass mushrooms now and hope to do a little better in the near future.

http://www.foggymountainglass.com/temp.html

[gypsea]

sorry........trying to pay bills today & feeling a bit depressed.

[K-Dog]

Making said dollar amount of artsy product in a day is do'able,selling it is another story.

I think you could totally make a $1000 in art piece's in a very long day.Maybe even sell them.But selling that much all day everyday is impossable if your a no name like the majority of us.

[FoggyMountain]

Good point. I guess my point would be that a smoker needs a pipe while an art lover wants it. Goes back to the whole constant demand thing again.

Still $1000 would be a hell of a day though......... and what would you make that is worth $1000 that you could pull off in one days time? I would like to see some pics if anyone has any?

[Micah Evans]

your problem is you think there has to be a ton of work to make something worth 1000 bucks. nothing is farther from the truth, a lot has to do with the name on the piece and a lot has to do with the concept behind it. one of the main differences between art and craft is concept, in craft the craftsmanship of the work drives the price. in some art the idea expressed in the piece is what drives the price. in the long run concept is worth far more than craftsmanship in the right market.... 1000 dollars a day may be a low price for some artists.

[THAT Guy]

The only way I could really see something like that flying would be making 30 or so $35 super nice pendants a day and having the retail outlet to get rid of them, like a very popular boutique in the heart of Manhattan. I couldn't really see anybody getting $1000 a day wholesale without having a following. Does Chihully (sp?) even make anywhere near that much?

[Micah Evans]

um, yes chihuly corp makes that much, lol.

talked to one of william morriss assistants who coldworked 20 small comb sculptures made in one day that sold for 15,000 a piece....they were backordered so they did that for a week. He is probably the top example out there, but they are out there.

p.s. chihuly sells his splatter paintings for 15 K and they take him about 15-20 minutes.... and he has an assistant who makes them.

[menty666]

I don't know, a thousand dollars a day from your art could be easy. You can use glass plates on a printing press, right? It's getting the ink and paper to print the thousand in hundreds using your plates that's hard :D

[FoggyMountain]

20 comb sculptures at 15,000 a piece = 300,000 in a day. Is for real? You got a picture of this comb sculpture? I don't even know what a comb sculpture is?

Also i am talking about making and selling your own work, not running a business and making a percentage off your employees work. Or using machines to mass produce items. (still not a bad idea though)

[Greymatter Glass]

My 2¢...

If you can't make $1000 a day in high end pipe production with the low supply and high demand what makes you think you have the skill or market to make $1000 a day in "Art" given the abundance of supply, and low demand of a constantly shrinking market?

Also, you can't look at it as $365,000 a year, you figure at least half your time is going to be devoted to selling your work.... so you spend 5 days to make $5000 in product and 2 weeks to sell it, that's only $237 a day roughly.... not chump change I guess, but not the $1000 a day you THINK you're making using bad math and unrealistic expectations.

FWIW I know several people who can and do sell work that in the time it takes to produce nets well over $1000 a day.... but of them they might make a few of those level sales a year. Tens of thousands maybe... not hundreds.

Every bit helps, but AFAIK they still make most their living off a variety of $10-100 production style knick-knacks (marbles, jewelry, beads, goblets, sculpture, etc) And even on that level, making $20 beads, you should be able to produce $600-1000 a day worth of retail priced inventory.... but most of it will be sold wholesale so really it's only $300-500 a day.... still good money.

Also, I am just hazarding a guess here, based on what I see in galleries (on the street and online), various auctions, and talking to other artists that $60k a year is an obtainable goal for income with a full time dedication to selling and making your work. $40-50k is probably more common, and very few make it over 75k a year. And that is working non-stop full time, 40+ hours a week with little or no vacation.

Then there are those who can make $100,000 finished pieces of cast glass or blocks of giant millie canes, and such, and they are the rock stars. Your chance of getting there is probably about the same as getting into the NBA or getting a multi million dollar recording contract. But it exists and drives many of us.

-Doug

[Micah Evans]

foggy,

here is some of Wiliam morriss work, there is a comb in there somewhere. He is a soft glass artist who has assisitants.... and if you made that kind of coin you would have other people do the bitch work to.

http://www.holstengalleries.com/artists/category/19

just because you have other people helping you doesn't mean its not your work, when demand is higher than production you get help. Art is business, don't kid yourself, if you don't agree you will probably never make anywhere near 1000 a day on your work.

[Howie]

I guess my point would be that a smoker needs a pipe while an art lover wants it.

In my opinion, this isn't true. A smoker may want a pipe but they can certainly smoke without one. Considering that, a pipe is not a need, but a want.

[CripSkillz]

1000$ would be a hell of a 2 weeks.. shit...

[FoggyMountain]

Howie: Good point but papers cost money too. I guess you could smoke from a rock on the ground or something but i think most people at that point would say "I need a pipe right now". I guess my point was that when most 'pipe smokers' break there piece they pretty much want another one so bad they might just say they 'need' a pipe at the time. But we all know that people can live without them so they obviously don't need it.

Micah Evans: "just because you have other people helping you doesn't mean its not your work"

Well in the case of a compilation piece that may be true to a certain extent. But what i meant was having like apprentices doing smaller $4 outside color wraps for you so you can work on bigger stuff that pays more. I wouldn't go around claiming that what he blew is 'my work'. I might say that getting the order together would be my business, but not my work. He did them start to finish. And yes this helps a lot. I do this as often as possible but it is not what I am talking about in this case. I am just trying to see who is making $1000 a day by themselves, for the most part. Just trying to narrow it down. Thanks for that advice though.

It's just that my friend doesn't blow glass but thinks it is an easy switch from pipes to art, and i am telling him that my demand is in pipes and art sits around too long. And i don't have much experience outside the pipe world to be honest. When i have to pay rent i can't loose too many days trying to learn something new and then loose more days trying to find a demand and buyer for it at the same time.

[boxfan willy]

My experience has been that a pipe falls more in the "need" category than a wall sculpture or "object de art". All of my shops that follow solid business practices are doing well, which in turn keeps me doing well.

I have always found it more comfortable to make functional objects, whether pipe or scientific than to brave the waters of collectible art. Being said, all who have committed to art and craft to carve out a living have my utmost respect. I have tried it and failed miserably on most occasions. Production is comfortable to me.

less than $.02,

boxfan

[Johan]

the art world is very very backwards. It's not about what you make and how cool it looks and is. it's about who you are, who knows you, and who you know. it's all about gettin your name out there. There are people that can sell art that they shit out for more money than others that struggled forever to make something. thats life oh well...in the end you should realize that life's not all about money. And if u disagree well then your a jackass.

[Gibsons Glassworks]

http://www.markwoolley.com/Artwork-Detail.cfm?ArtistsID=454&NewID=7367

im sure u could make a few of these a day...

[CripSkillz]

fukin a for 250$ id try it.. mine would go for like 2.50

damnn theres some tight stufff in ther wheeew

[Racer X]

Art is not who you know and your name. Far from it. It's all in the work. If you have the work, you'll find your market eventualy or it will find you and then your name is on it. I hear this statement far too often, as if it's some exclusive club unatainable by most.

The real key is trying to keep your sanity when most art markets get cold as your work gets better. Art marketing is a whole different ballgame for each person. It really just comes down to the work.

[FoggyMountain]

I agree that art is not who you know or how big your name is, the art is in the piece itself. But when your name is well known I am sure it helps create a demand specifically for your stuff alone. And when you have a demand for your stuff and your stuff only then you can feel free to set the price higher without discouraging sales as much. This is just the luxury that well known artist have that most others don't.

I am sure some of the best artists are probably sitting in the shadows.

[Uscalus Storm]

Why not do both?

It's one reason why i've been trying to expand my designs and art pieces all the time. I sell my glass for what i think it's worth. If i don't sell..I have another job that pays the bills. More variety=better chances. my 2 cents..

[Zed]

You should get Milon Townsend's book, "Making and Marketing Better Work" as a how-to on marketing your artwork professionally. While not my favorite flameworker, I'm guessing he hits that $1000 mark your holding up on a good day.

Good art is about the content of your ideas first and execution/craftsmanship second. This is why most pipe makers never make the leap, the idea of a pipe stays pretty constant. Sure there are many different concepts and tangents of what a pipe is but at the end of the day if it works well and is ascetically pleasing then it is usually considered a good pipe. The content of the idea never changes, even though the execution of the idea is all over the map.

Good art conveys a message, emotion or narrative to the viewer. Great art sells the fastest. It's not all about the name with some collectors, a lot of rich people will buy what they like regardless of who made it. Others try to collect pieces from the rock stars of the (glass) art world. Getting noticed at all requires a lot of dedication and marketing skills as well as great work, and by great work I mean really good unique ideas that are executed flawlessly. Good luck.

I'd recommend taking a tour of the flamework rockstars to get a feel for the work that is on the level I think your describing, although I personally thank that being motivated by the $$ vs. the love of creation and expression is probably going to end in failure.

Off the top of my head:

http://www.luciobubbaco.com (http://www.luciobubacco.com)
http://mickelsenstudios.com
http://toffolo.com (http://www.toffolo.com)
http://milontownsend.com

[STROKER]

alright i wasnt going to post anything here as i am not a fulltime glass guy.

but i am a full time artist for almost 14 years paying my bills with my creative efforts in wood sculpting. since my new direction includes glass and wood i feel the need to say a few words.

i consider my art work to be on the high end side with my prices rangeing from $500-$15,000 for my most expensive sale to date. i dont carry items under $500 as it is to hard to display in a booth full of high end items and make the customers understand the price difference.

pick one or the other, but dont try and sell a $5000 sculpture next to a $50 marble.
the price point (difference) is too radical and you will only confuse your customers. i choose to do the high end stuff as it takes alot less sales to make the same money. i would have to sell 100 marbles to make the same money as the sculpture and in the end it is easier for me to find the one guy with 5 grand then it is 100 people with 50 bucks.

with that said, it is much harder these last few years than ever before to sell the high end stuff. over the years, i have spent a great deal of time collecting personal info from my collectors to make sure that i can keep my work in front of them over and over again. persistance is the key. the internet is great for constant updates and sending pics of latest works to everyone. no excuses!!!!!!!

it may sound like alot of money when you sell an item for a couple grand but most people forget what it cost to actually make the sale. (materials and time to build project are just the tip of the iceburg unless you are william morris or dale chihully). most of us have to work from other angles than the big names do. i sell at galleries and always will but until you actually make it you will never make enough sales to survive on galleries alone. unless you have a catchy item that is a very desirable price point. cheap.

i do high end art shows around the country that cater to high end collectors but i pay at least a few thousand dollars and spend at least a week of my life on the road for each one. multiply that time and money by 8-12 shows a year and it really takes alot of that money away you just made.

the one and only guarantee with art shows is they are very hard work and very expensive.
i have spent thousands of dollars on shows and came home skunked feeling like a looser and wondering why people were not buying my work...
and on the flip side i have done cheaper outdoor shows in the past that sent me home with an empty trailer and a full wallet. a total mind fuck for sure but it is reality.

a total catch 22.

in my years doing art shows i have noticed very few individuals that make $365,000 a year. at least not after all expenses.

one of my pottery buddies has a southwestern indian style and some of his pots sell for $50,000 and i personally saw a customer pay him for a $35,000 piece at the washington craft show a few years back. that was an eye opener.

his name is marvin blackmore(google him and check his work out). he lives very well and makes alot of money now. but it has been a long struggle to get a body of work that people recognize and enough qualified help to stay in the shop and build while he sells it on the road.
at one time he was more broke than a convict. very persistant individual.

also, he has a silver tounge and could sell sand to an arab but that is another story altogether.

what most people dont realize is how much he spends to market his works. he spends over $30,000 at a time for a full page add in mags like architectural digest and southern home etc.,etc.... for a grand total of a few hundred grand a year in advertising alone.
in his oppinion this is what it takes to convince collectors he is the real deal and will be around 20 years from now. he also knows it helps to get the very high price he demands for his work these days.

the average art show we do cost around $3000-$4000 out of pocket and a week traveling time. do the math and you will watch the money you made flying back into the marketing of art system.

a few other friends of mine you can google that all have very high end work with some pieces going for $20,000 or more. (mark nantz, hunt clark, brad sells, michael mode, mark bressler) these are a few of my wood buddies that do excellent work and sell for alot of money but none of them are wealthy.
we all put so much back in the system that it is hard to break even some months. others can be gangbuster months. just remember that may be the last sale for a while and you have to make it until the next one. the joys of being self employed.

if you think collectors of art are going to just come to your house and knock on your door to buy your ass kicking work, then i am afraid you are in for some bad news.
no matter how good you are , they still want to make sure you are a worthy investment that will stand the test of time.
if they buy a piece from you today for $5000 then they want to make sure it is not going to be worth half that or less in a few months when you dissapear from the art world and get a 9 to 5 job. (many artist are forced back to the working world very quickly and that devalues the art you sell considerably)collectors are aware of this and will watch patiently to make sure you are here for the long haul before they buy.

my best collector lives in scarsdale, ny and he watched my work for two years and talked to me about collecting during that time. i thought he was full of shit becuase he never bought anything from me, then at the third year of doing a show in nyc he came to my booth and bought my 3 most expensive pieces to start his collection of my work.
this was in 2002, since then he has purchased over 100 piece from me to display in his many houses and give away as gifts. prooving you must stay persistant and never give up on your goals.

for the past 3 years he has ordered 40 bowls as gifts for his employees at x-mas and that has made a big difference in my revenue at the end of the year.
i planted that seed to make the gifts with a coment about another collector that i sell to that just hired me to do a few gift pieces.
after i mentioned it to my guy in nyc he thought it was a great way to spead my name and give art for a gift at the same time.
the lesson here is" plant seeds in the collectors mind" sometimes the seed will grow into great opportuinties.
this year i am doing the run with small wood bowls that have a glass stand.

i have found that collectors will spend any amount of money if you make them believe the piece is worth it and you will be around to make many more.

the biggest thing i fight in the art world is continuity in my body of work . year after year i come up with new designs that i feel a great need to build whether i have a customer for it or not.
trust me this is not the best marketing strategy... i am hard headed in that dept..

my galleries all tell me to please try and stick to a body of work so they can get the collectors familiar with me and my style, year after year. i am not one to comply in that dept. and it does affect my overall sales.

in truth, this may be the only way to make it financially until you do establish yourself. make a body of work that is all you and the collectors recognize as such.. continuity,continuity,etc.etc.....

after you make it you can sell anything you make as fast as you make it and there is always someone to buy that next piece. but be for real about the subject and realize that very few artist make the sales volume or dollars you speak of.
if they do, they most likely have a team of employees to pay,insurance(workmans comp) and a ton of money in marketing so it still brings the money thing back down considerably. some of the big names dont make as much as me because they pay so many people and although money is not the thing that motivates me, it sure is nice to make enough to pay the bills at least.

someone said it earlier and it is the all time biggest truth... "it takes money to make money"

my collectors are very serious buyers that have millions of dollars worth of art, but that doesnt mean that i am going to be guaranteed any sales. it is up to me to make the sale and that means lots and lots of self promotion to the people with deep pockets.

times are hard at the moment and will probably get a little harder before we see a turn around in big art collecting. i do however feel , it is just a matter of time and we will see the sales start to climb again.

everyone has a different situation that they are fighting. i hope some of my years in the field will help some of you newbies to realize you are not the first ones to experience the frustrations of just surviving, much less making it.

i said it in a previous post. i cant imagine coming in my house and seeing bare walls and pedastals with no art. what a boring fuckin world that would be.

be patient and persistant. jay

[Steve Sizelove]

Thanks, Jay! That was well said.

Not that I can add a whole lot to this, but I'll give my input anyway. As I see it, I'm at the very beginning of being established in the glass art world. All of the momentum that I've gained over the last 3-4 years has slowed dramatically.

I enjoy my work immensely most days, but some are hard knowing that there is little pay off. At least a couple of times a year I have to push some bowls. I don't mind; it's such an automatic thing that it can be meditative. I do feel, though, that it distracts me from the focus that I continually try to sharpen. It's hard to exist in two worlds.

I've had serious talks with some of the most established flameworkers out there. Only a small few have done really well and all are experiencing the same trend in lower sales.

Paul Stankard gave me some good insights. He expressed concern for the current generation of flameworkers, saying that those who can make it through will be well poised to benefit from the next upswing. Hang on tight!

[HOSS]

Good art is about the content of your ideas first and execution/craftsmanship second. This is why most pipe makers never make the leap, the idea of a pipe stays pretty constant. Sure there are many different concepts and tangents of what a pipe is but at the end of the day if it works well and is ascetically pleasing then it is usually considered a good pipe. The content of the idea never changes, even though the execution of the idea is all over the map.

In general I agree with this but it seems to me that there are a few (VERY few) who make functional pieces that I would consider to be art first and pipes a distant second. Banjo, Clinton, Darby and Jag all come to mind as "pipe makers" who's work I could easily see being right at home in an upscale art collection, and most people would probably never even notice it was a "functional" piece unless you pointed out the odd little indention over here, or the little hole there. The only reason I can see that people shell out many thousands of dollars for a sculpture "pipe" by one of these guys when a $20 spoon would work just as well (maybe better) is their value as unique artistic expressions.

[FoggyMountain]

Jay: good stuff. i do have a few comments though:

"he spends over $30,000 at a time for a full page add in mags like architectural digest and southern home etc.,etc.... for a grand total of a few hundred grand a year in advertising alone."

Sounds like he knows his name needs to be out there to keep sales going strong and consistent as possible. He knows well enough to spend $30,000 to keep his name alive. This is important. It is like the music industry. You might have written and recorded some of the best songs in history but if you never show anyone then you get no credit or awknowledment, because nobody knows who you are.

Most well known band or music groups out there sit around for years playing shitty gigs getting paid nothing just trying to get there name out there. Like Sound Garden or Sublime just to name a few. Nobody wants to buy a CD from a noname band. THis doesn't make them better or worse at making music or art, however it makes there ability to sell there work much much easier. Which is what i believe we are all hoping for. Making nice art that can be appreciated is one thing i enjoy a lot, but paying my bills without sweating too much, now that sounds nice....


"it is easier for me to find the one guy with 5 grand then it is 100 people with 50 bucks."

I wish i could say that. But then again i need to make something worth $5,000....

"my galleries all tell me to please try and stick to a body of work so they can get the collectors familiar with me and my style, year after year. i am not one to comply in that dept. and it does affect my overall sales."

Some of the best advice i have gotten so far. Thanks for the eye opener.

[somewhere]

jay

Hey Jay I would like to check out more of your work do you have a web page or a last name I can google to check out gallery work?

And out of curiosity do you do any shows in Florida?

[THAT Guy]

Jay, thanks for taking the time to put that great deal of insight into the art world out there. If that wasn't a rep-worthy post, I don't know what is. Thanks again, man.

[ACE]

alright i wasnt going to post anything here as i am not a fulltime glass guy.

but i am a full time artist for almost 14 years paying my bills with my creative efforts in wood sculpting. since my new direction includes glass and wood i feel the need to say a few words.

i consider my art work to be on the high end side with my prices rangeing from $500-$15,000 for my most expensive sale to date. i dont carry items under $500 as it is to hard to display in a booth full of high end items and make the customers understand the price difference.

pick one or the other, but dont try and sell a $5000 sculpture next to a $50 marble.
the price point (difference) is too radical and you will only confuse your customers. i choose to do the high end stuff as it takes alot less sales to make the same money. i would have to sell 100 marbles to make the same money as the sculpture and in the end it is easier for me to find the one guy with 5 grand then it is 100 people with 50 bucks.

with that said, it is much harder these last few years than ever before to sell the high end stuff. over the years, i have spent a great deal of time collecting personal info from my collectors to make sure that i can keep my work in front of them over and over again. persistance is the key. the internet is great for constant updates and sending pics of latest works to everyone. no excuses!!!!!!!

it may sound like alot of money when you sell an item for a couple grand but most people forget what it cost to actually make the sale. (materials and time to build project are just the tip of the iceburg unless you are william morris or dale chihully). most of us have to work from other angles than the big names do. i sell at galleries and always will but until you actually make it you will never make enough sales to survive on galleries alone. unless you have a catchy item that is a very desirable price point. cheap.

i do high end art shows around the country that cater to high end collectors but i pay at least a few thousand dollars and spend at least a week of my life on the road for each one. multiply that time and money by 8-12 shows a year and it really takes alot of that money away you just made.

the one and only guarantee with art shows is they are very hard work and very expensive.
i have spent thousands of dollars on shows and came home skunked feeling like a looser and wondering why people were not buying my work...
and on the flip side i have done cheaper outdoor shows in the past that sent me home with an empty trailer and a full wallet. a total mind fuck for sure but it is reality.

a total catch 22.

in my years doing art shows i have noticed very few individuals that make $365,000 a year. at least not after all expenses.

one of my pottery buddies has a southwestern indian style and some of his pots sell for $50,000 and i personally saw a customer pay him for a $35,000 piece at the washington craft show a few years back. that was an eye opener.

his name is marvin blackmore(google him and check his work out). he lives very well and makes alot of money now. but it has been a long struggle to get a body of work that people recognize and enough qualified help to stay in the shop and build while he sells it on the road.
at one time he was more broke than a convict. very persistant individual.

also, he has a silver tounge and could sell sand to an arab but that is another story altogether.

what most people dont realize is how much he spends to market his works. he spends over $30,000 at a time for a full page add in mags like architectural digest and southern home etc.,etc.... for a grand total of a few hundred grand a year in advertising alone.
in his oppinion this is what it takes to convince collectors he is the real deal and will be around 20 years from now. he also knows it helps to get the very high price he demands for his work these days.

the average art show we do cost around $3000-$4000 out of pocket and a week traveling time. do the math and you will watch the money you made flying back into the marketing of art system.

a few other friends of mine you can google that all have very high end work with some pieces going for $20,000 or more. (mark nantz, hunt clark, brad sells, michael mode, mark bressler) these are a few of my wood buddies that do excellent work and sell for alot of money but none of them are wealthy.
we all put so much back in the system that it is hard to break even some months. others can be gangbuster months. just remember that may be the last sale for a while and you have to make it until the next one. the joys of being self employed.

if you think collectors of art are going to just come to your house and knock on your door to buy your ass kicking work, then i am afraid you are in for some bad news.
no matter how good you are , they still want to make sure you are a worthy investment that will stand the test of time.
if they buy a piece from you today for $5000 then they want to make sure it is not going to be worth half that or less in a few months when you dissapear from the art world and get a 9 to 5 job. (many artist are forced back to the working world very quickly and that devalues the art you sell considerably)collectors are aware of this and will watch patiently to make sure you are here for the long haul before they buy.

my best collector lives in scarsdale, ny and he watched my work for two years and talked to me about collecting during that time. i thought he was full of shit becuase he never bought anything from me, then at the third year of doing a show in nyc he came to my booth and bought my 3 most expensive pieces to start his collection of my work.
this was in 2002, since then he has purchased over 100 piece from me to display in his many houses and give away as gifts. prooving you must stay persistant and never give up on your goals.

for the past 3 years he has ordered 40 bowls as gifts for his employees at x-mas and that has made a big difference in my revenue at the end of the year.
i planted that seed to make the gifts with a coment about another collector that i sell to that just hired me to do a few gift pieces.
after i mentioned it to my guy in nyc he thought it was a great way to spead my name and give art for a gift at the same time.
the lesson here is" plant seeds in the collectors mind" sometimes the seed will grow into great opportuinties.
this year i am doing the run with small wood bowls that have a glass stand.

i have found that collectors will spend any amount of money if you make them believe the piece is worth it and you will be around to make many more.

the biggest thing i fight in the art world is continuity in my body of work . year after year i come up with new designs that i feel a great need to build whether i have a customer for it or not.
trust me this is not the best marketing strategy... i am hard headed in that dept..

my galleries all tell me to please try and stick to a body of work so they can get the collectors familiar with me and my style, year after year. i am not one to comply in that dept. and it does affect my overall sales.

in truth, this may be the only way to make it financially until you do establish yourself. make a body of work that is all you and the collectors recognize as such.. continuity,continuity,etc.etc.....

after you make it you can sell anything you make as fast as you make it and there is always someone to buy that next piece. but be for real about the subject and realize that very few artist make the sales volume or dollars you speak of.
if they do, they most likely have a team of employees to pay,insurance(workmans comp) and a ton of money in marketing so it still brings the money thing back down considerably. some of the big names dont make as much as me because they pay so many people and although money is not the thing that motivates me, it sure is nice to make enough to pay the bills at least.

someone said it earlier and it is the all time biggest truth... "it takes money to make money"

my collectors are very serious buyers that have millions of dollars worth of art, but that doesnt mean that i am going to be guaranteed any sales. it is up to me to make the sale and that means lots and lots of self promotion to the people with deep pockets.

times are hard at the moment and will probably get a little harder before we see a turn around in big art collecting. i do however feel , it is just a matter of time and we will see the sales start to climb again.

everyone has a different situation that they are fighting. i hope some of my years in the field will help some of you newbies to realize you are not the first ones to experience the frustrations of just surviving, much less making it.

i said it in a previous post. i cant imagine coming in my house and seeing bare walls and pedastals with no art. what a boring fuckin world that would be.

be patient and persistant. jay

cliff notes?

[misticglass]

$1000 a day sounds like a good day at a craft show. Any of the lampers here could do that well in one day at a holiday sale if theres enough traffic, and you have decent stuff. There is plenty of $ for us out there.. the general public loves glass too and they sure have alot more money than the hippies buying pipes.

I think this is probubly what the original poster was thinking..... $1000 a day but that doesnt count the month it took of working, stocking up, and prepairing for one good day.

Think of a pie chart of the general population, maybe 15% +- would buy a pipe, or less that would collect more than one pipe. Almost 100% would buy non-pipe art or at least look and appreciate it. There IS a very good market beyond pipes. Just have to find ways to get yourself out there.

-morgan

[HiAltitude]

Probably less than 15% of the general population would buy a pipe, since they are illegal lots of places (like where I live). On the other hand, art is something people will show off, not hide. Same amount of work, bigger audience, no hassles.

Make cool goblets, then teach me how. Please. :bangHead:

[Meerkat]

I wont say who the artist was, other than that it was someone famous, but a couple years ago my parents bought me this glass frog at some art gallery shop, they said they paid like over $200 for it.

While it is nice looking, no way is it worth $200, it had poor spots or errors that would make it easily have worth a lot less if it had been made by some unknown artis. It just looked quickly put togeather or put togeather by an apprentice, not what I would expect of the work of this famous artist.

So its all about name and reputation and sellign to people like my parents that don't know anything about glass, but want to buy a certain name, which is probably the majority of customers.

[senz1]

what did u learn?hair no problem?plant a tree?i dont understand your point!!!!biter..obama

[ACE]

what did u learn?hair no problem?plant a tree?i dont understand your point!!!!biter..obama

no moron thats part of my signature. why are you calling me a biter? that doesn't even make any sense. who are you again???

i posted asking for cliff notes because i have the attention span of a fruit bat and i was hoping someone could condense some of the information for me, seeing as though it looked like at least one or two people had actually read the entire thing.

[Kool]

Cliff's notes:

Find ways to convince Meepits to give you lots of money for your work, such as advertising in Meepit Quarterly or by building up your name in the Meepit community. Finding a single Meepit to give you a whole a bunch of money may be easier than finding many Meepits to give a mush lesser amount. The Meepits that drop serious paper are kind of snobbish (my word, not stroker's) so if you are going for the big bucks, try to cater to that by building a body of Meepit-friendly work that is all in the higher price range.

[ACE]

lol thanks kool! informative AND entertaining.

[Udai Hussien]

what did u learn?hair no problem?plant a tree?i dont understand your point!!!!biter..obamau spel guud!!!

[dws glass]

I would have to say that to be able to make $1000 a day in art you gotta be known like chihuli and even he has art that sits arround for a while beafore it sells if it worent for the fact that he has a few hundred people working for him
and owning like five different schools that people pay an arm and a leg to go to
even he would not be able to make or sell the art that he does by him self
me personaly I make moastly pipes and have more supply than demand
I only have one stedy costomer that buys $1000 per month from me of pipes
other than that I have ben trying to branch in the art world and attend various art/craft showes and have even brought all of my art work to the state fair
and did live demo's for people I made about $1200 in two weeks
my former student that makes much simpler items and has higher prices made
like $2400 so all in all what I am saying is stay with your demand but dont be afraid to try somthing new just dont put all your time in it un till you kno its for sure by the way if any one needs some pipes to help fill their orders I allways have surplus and it is nice work I have ben working glass for five years ill try to post some pics of pipes and some art here soon

[gotglass?]

In my case of Naughty Pipes there is only one remaining piece i bought before i started lampworking.... most of the other pipes are from other pipers i know that i have traded for or bought to support a friend. I like smoking out of something i didn't make.... other than that sometimes its a sherlock kinda day or maybe its hammer time so when the need arises i make a certain style for myself or keep the piece that checked or cracked and rock it til it falls into pieces.... Yeah i used to have a bad glass habit and a bad relationship with gravity hence i could no longer afford not to make pipes myself

[Cosmo]

Well, it depends on how you look at it, I guess. I have a friend who is a pipe maker full time. He will say things to me like "I need to make $500 today". That means he makes enough stuff that the price he hopes to get for it is $500. So he'll make 10 $50 pieces, or 100 $5 pieces, or whatever.

Now, looking at it like that, I guess if you expect to sell pieces for $200 you can make 5 of them in a day, you can make $1000 a day.

However, if you have someone who will actually buy all that you make and you get that $1000 (or even $500) a day, give them my number.

[FoggyMountain]

Well i just made this nice sculpture of a mushroom cluster. It sold today for $80. I think it was worth more but that was the reserve i set on ebay. This is so far my largest pay from art.

The dollar per hours still doesn't beat pipes but i love the satisfaction i get from selling a piece of art for that much money that someone just wants to look at. Hopefully my quality and speed will increase over time. We shall see. I still will be paying my rent with pipes for the time being, but maybe i could start trying to pay my phone bill and car insurance with art, just to get my feet wet.

http://www.foggymountainglass.com/images/DSC04659_GA.jpg

[shark bait]

Foggy, that mushroom cluster is awesome, and I agree, it is worth a lot more than $80.

How long did it take to make?

[FoggyMountain]

Thanks, i am glad you like it. :happy2: It took about 3-4 hours.

I love mushrooms. I actually have a dream of maybe one day becoming a mycologist, if i ever had the free time and money to go back to school.

It is cool because doing mushroom related glass art allows me to become more passionate about my work which makes the end result even more satisfying. I made the caps and stems, umbos and annulus rings all consistent with natural stages of development and growth.

I have plans for more clusters with crazy bowties and reversal caps in a multitude of colors and such. I think mushroom related art could have potential. I will be doing the Santa Cruz fungus fair this January and plan to start making them bigger and better real soon.

[shark bait]

Foggy, Have you seen Harald Eberhart's plama neon art?

Your mushrooms would look amazing with plasma neon inside them.

http://eberhartglass.com/

[FoggyMountain]

I was thinking that as well. It is the expensive equipment and time to learn the process that is taking me so long to get into neon. But yes there are several ways to illuminate this sculpture. My friend was suggesting some super bright LEDs wich would be simple and easy. Also i have seen the wireless lights that you just set on a box which sends a frequency which allows the object charged with gas to illuminate. That sounds ideal for displaying art.

I have also heard of giesler (sp?) tubes, which are very hot and dangerous and not to be touched, but still pretty cool looking. I am not sure about those.

But i would be happy with plain old neon really. I have a metal brake so i could bend up a metal housing pretty easy.

I will check that site out now....


EDIT:> Wow that looks exactly like what i want to learn! That website should give me some good info in itself though. I would definitely take the class if it were on the west coast :(

[kage]

i know this post is old, but this time last year I watched a former Chihuly employee demo for a week at my school. During that week, he made close to 100 wine goblets which sell for over $300 a piece. The avg. goblet took him about 15 min! He made his $1000/ day mark before he even had his morning bagel!

[Mecha]

i know this post is old, but this time last year I watched a former Chihuly employee demo for a week at my school. During that week, he made close to 100 wine goblets which sell for over $300 a piece. The avg. goblet took him about 15 min! He made his $1000/ day mark before he even had his morning bagel!

I would love to see a picture of one of these fifteen minute $300 + goblets.

It's one thing to make $300 goblets, it is another thing entirely to sell them.

[Master Yoda]

dude, what dimension do $300 goblets exist in, are there $200 i/o spoons there?

[$$$$$$$]

Why would you even get out of bed for less than $900?

[Robert Mickelsen]

Every post in this thread that refers to the "$1000/day" production rate fails to recognize the cost of doing business. I try to make that very figure the basis of my work rate so I do not consider it to be outrageous in any way. But when you subtract overhead, materials, taxes and insurance, etc. that figure is generally cut by 40 - 50% or more. Also, not everything I make sells. There is some "loss" in items that are seconds or do not sell for some other reason. This knocks the average down significantly. By the time all is said and done the $1000/day work rate is the only thing that preserves a decent hourly wage for me. The work rate is used to price the work. What I actually earn is nowhere close to that.

It gets even more complicated if you market by consigning like I do. When consigning, a significant portion of the wealth generated becomes "deferred" wealth... that is, it is wealth because the work has value, but is not income until it is turned into cash. My current consignment inventory around the country stands at something like $250000 (wholesale). That counts as an asset, but because I use a cash accounting system it does not count as income. But part of my $1000/day (maybe most of it) work rate ends up part of that pool of wealth instead of actual income.

It takes money to make money. Marketing is half the battle. Making is the other half. Equal amounts of money are spent doing both. Looking at the gross production rate is misleading and largely irrelevant. What counts is profit. So, what is your profit? If you cannot answer that question easily then you really do need to buy Milon's book "Making and Marketing Better Work". We may be craftspeople but we still have to have a basic understanding of business principles in order to be successful.

- RAM

[$$$$$$$]

Thanks for your reply RAM, I love to hear about stuff like that. In trying to get my business portion more fine tuned

[The Lorax]

^x2. I really appreciate your posts RAM... always so insightful, helpful and well thought out... i NEED to take a class from you some day, I know that for sure.

[marcel]

Every post in this thread that refers to the "$1000/day" production rate fails to recognize the cost of doing business. I try to make that very figure the basis of my work rate so I do not consider it to be outrageous in any way. But when you subtract overhead, materials, taxes and insurance, etc. that figure is generally cut by 40 - 50% or more. Also, not everything I make sells. There is some "loss" in items that are seconds or do not sell for some other reason. This knocks the average down significantly. By the time all is said and done the $1000/day work rate is the only thing that preserves a decent hourly wage for me. The work rate is used to price the work. What I actually earn is nowhere close to that.

It gets even more complicated if you market by consigning like I do. When consigning, a significant portion of the wealth generated becomes "deferred" wealth... that is, it is wealth because the work has value, but is not income until it is turned into cash. My current consignment inventory around the country stands at something like $250000 (wholesale). That counts as an asset, but because I use a cash accounting system it does not count as income. But part of my $1000/day (maybe most of it) work rate ends up part of that pool of wealth instead of actual income.

It takes money to make money. Marketing is half the battle. Making is the other half. Equal amounts of money are spent doing both. Looking at the gross production rate is misleading and largely irrelevant. What counts is profit. So, what is your profit? If you cannot answer that question easily then you really do need to buy Milon's book "Making and Marketing Better Work". We may be craftspeople but we still have to have a basic understanding of business principles in order to be successful.

- RAM

Thank god for some realistic perspective.

Production costs less to sell...but still has plenty of "soft" costs. Expensive, one of a kind pieces are expensive to make.....

200k a year is 4k a week and 2 weeks vacation. Who actually makes that? Take home?

[masterglaster]

There are already loads of people making and selling glass art. If it was possible to earn $1000, or even $500, for each days work there would probably be 10 times as many.

[nicko0]

i have learned a lot about art and the art world from watching pbs programs. especially the program art:21 you can watch it online.

that particular program has given me many ideas of how to go about doing it big in todays art world.

[$$$$$$$]

This video gives some good input

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUFbOh3Vzjo

[n3rd]

i was pretty lost on this thread, but that youtube video cleared it all up, thanks for chiming in cupcake!

[vetropod]

Gene, Gene, made a machine.
Joe, Joe, made it go.
Art, Art, blew a fart
and blew the whole damn thing apart.

[bc]

I find it very hard to believe that lots of you don't believe that we are building the foundations of a large movement right now. What's gonna happen in 10-20 years when were still rockin out with all that knowledge under our belts. We're gonna be ballers, I'm tellin ya. Get yer shit clean an start marketing in the feild like a mofo. Off my soapbox now....

[CripSkillz]

hell ya I cant wait for 10 more years... oh wait ya I can heehheeh

[The Lorax]

I find it very hard to believe that lots of you don't believe that we are building the foundations of a large movement right now. What's gonna happen in 10-20 years when were still rockin out with all that knowledge under our belts. We're gonna be ballers, I'm tellin ya. Get yer shit clean an start marketing in the feild like a mofo. Off my soapbox now....

if you play your cards right, i agree with this statement... i mean fuck... look at all the big names in the game right now and most have only 8 years experience... 8 years to be some of the best of the best??? i find that to be pretty crazy in itself.... even crazier when you think of how info wasn't readily available as it is today.

[Unkl Ian]

Info is important, but only part of the equation.