Possible discount on a 100pounds of ONYX NS...

[Loïc]

what price should i expect to pay for a pallet of that black onyx..... ~100 pounds....

thks

[The Lorax]

why not 100 pounds of jet black?

[Loïc]

honestly i havent work enough with jet black to say...

actually i ordered a rod of each black color that Nortel carry and ill do my testing in between chrismas and new-year....

but i need : a Dark black when thinned, one that can be beatten by newbs and wont bubbles.....

its to make a zillion of flat disk to be used as pendants backing......



so it could be " what discount whould i expect from a 100pounds of the same colors... ? " or something like

any input on the best black to use for my case would also be very appreciated,

thanks all

Loic

[jr23]

jet all the way it will take the abuse with a smile. Also CALL ABE at northstar. Buying in that amount will cause a great discount. Also his jet black odds are great and if you need it for backing and stuff I would get 50lbs of first and whatever odds he has. I called once and they had like 20 plus pounds of jet odds and when mine came I wish I could have bought then all. If you do nothing else call abe he will get you all set and did I say jet is the best black I have ever used and it never boils or grays and I beat it up.

[Blacksheep]

yeah jet black is a true black as well isnt onyx a green base?
definatley go right to the maker 100 lbs is a big order

[jr23]

I get that some blacks are green base but what is a true black? I hope one of our resident color wizards come hit this thread up cause I am interested in hearing about this I have heard you mention this green black stuff before. I also remember peeps saying back in the day turbo cobalt was the black for boro. Is all black based with some other color?

[K-Dog]

Buy it from the manufacturer, nortel won't give you the deal your expecting to get.

[Lurch]

go with Jet Black.. You won't be dissappointed. Stays BLACK thinned out... NO GREYING, NO BOIL. This is by far the BEST black on the market.

[michaeL25]

There is no man made "true" black if you want to get technical. Jet black goes blue when thinned out, but it needs to be crazy thin before gets to that point. I picked up jet black instead of onyx on my last order and i feel that onyx can take much more abuse than jet. Onyx also seems to bleed less (if that's the right term) into other glass. Jet can also be reduced to have a haze much easier than onyx. All that said I still go for jet more often than onyx now because, as mentioned, Onyx is a green based black, but it's easy to see the green in lots of light as it doesn't seem to be as dense. If i had a bunch of newbs and was looking for pendant backing, i'd definately be going for onyx though.

Northstar will give about a 50% retail discount on a ~$5k (2.5k after discount) order. that's right about at the 100lb mark. You aren't limited to a single color either. If I was doing this full time i'd definately be buying direct from NS and TAG (i don't use much GA). On large orders from TAG, they will basically do whatever you want. Custom colors, custom diameter, etc.

[Blacksheep]

There is no man made "true" black if you want to get technical. Jet black goes blue when thinned out, but it needs to be crazy thin before gets to that point. I picked up jet black instead of onyx on my last order and i feel that onyx can take much more abuse than jet. Onyx also seems to bleed less (if that's the right term) into other glass. Jet can also be reduced to have a haze much easier than onyx. All that said I still go for jet more often than onyx now because, as mentioned, Onyx is a green based black, but it's easy to see the green in lots of light as it doesn't seem to be as dense. If i had a bunch of newbs and was looking for pendant backing, i'd definately be going for onyx though.

Northstar will give about a 50% retail discount on a ~$5k (2.5k after discount) order. that's right about at the 100lb mark. You aren't limited to a single color either. If I was doing this full time i'd definately be buying direct from NS and TAG (i don't use much GA). On large orders from TAG, they will basically do whatever you want. Custom colors, custom diameter, etc.

true -black always has a base color i guess i just mean the density of jet black is darker than any ive seen with the green base -the green always seems to show in the light . im sure it has aplications but when i want black i prefer it to sty as dark as possible -the violets seem to do that better than green

[mer]

Loïc, you should call abe directly at northstar, (866) 684-6986 toll free. he'll most likely hook you up with a deal as long as you can assure him that it's not going overseas.

[Braden Hammond]

just throwing it out there...... china black rod 8 mil. cheap cheap cheap.... I bought a pile of it and it's good for your application for sure. I've used raven, onyx, jack black, jet black, Ninja all that. The ninja black would be good as well.... the china black rod is less than half the price and for cheap pendant backings why not?

[Dom]

Cuz its gonna crack sometimes.

[Braden Hammond]

if 1 out of 20 crack is it worth it time vs money....ask yourself that?

[Braden Hammond]

don't get me wrong I use raven and ninja they are way better quality... but for cheaper stuff like pendant backings why not? use all that sweet ninja glass on those more heady/nicer things.

[Glassroots]

just throwing it out there...... china black rod 8 mil. cheap cheap cheap.... I bought a pile of it and it's good for your application for sure. I've used raven, onyx, jack black, jet black, Ninja all that. The ninja black would be good as well.... the china black rod is less than half the price and for cheap pendant backings why not?

cause its made in china, i'd rather support GA or NS.

[jiminyrootkit]

my black of choice is onyx too, because it takes a beating like a champ, and you've gotta get it pretty damn thin to even start to get transparent.
$.02
-f

[KahunaGlassArt]

i like onyx too.
i tried GA black (violet) didnt like how you hardly even had to put it in the light to see the violet in it

[Dom]

if 1 out of 20 crack is it worth it time vs money....ask yourself that?

No its not.

[Big Jay]

from what I've seen of that china black it would be the last thing on my list for a group of students and I'd say getting 1 out of 20 that didn't crack would be more likely the odds.
I love onyx but I don't have experience with other blacks to say its the one and only but its butter imo. I know thats not the question you asked and it got off track.

[bc]

my black of choice is onyx too, because it takes a beating like a champ, and you've gotta get it pretty damn thin to even start to get transparent.
$.02
-f
you sure your not getting onyx mitched up with jet black? I can get onyx to thin.

[bc]

Jet black all the way baby.

[$$$$$$$]

Black hole all the way

[seadal]

Use the Asian black. 1 unsellable product out of 20 is well worth it. You can get the black for $8 a pound. Compared to $30 or $35 for the Onyx or Jet.
Just my .02 cents, spend it how you want to.

[Braden Hammond]

I like North American made glass for most of my work..... but 8 bucks or less a pound for color black rod is a no brainer..

[Glassroots]

Black hole all the way

lol

[Glassroots]

I like North American made glass for most of my work..... but 8 bucks or less a pound for color black rod is a no brainer..

It's not for me but to each his own. I remember getting pounds of black from the we love our customers sale through GA for $10, that was a few years back I think now there up to $15 or so.

[Abe Fleishman]

Loic if you are looking for the best deal give me a call and I will turn you in the right direction. I can also explain the pros and cons of the other blacks.
Abe

[michaeL25]

Abe, would you mind giving us a few points on the pros and cons of at least the blacks you offer? I've been using onyx from the start and picked up jet on my last order because everyone here seems to think it's better. Maybe it's just my batch, but the jet i have is more sensitive to heat and can haze up under a non-oxy flame. i generally like the results better than the green based onyx, so i've been putting up with it.

[menty666]

I get a little haze off of the onyx too, but it burns away nicely.

Just out of curiosity, have you considered borostix black? It's cheap, it works nicely, it's a good opaque. The only downside is it boils easily. But it also heals well.

I've been using onyx more lately, but if I want a flat black, I like the bx variety.

[michaeL25]

i haven't tried bsticks at all actually.. i've heard that the white is nice. Saving $30/lb, for the amount of color I use, isn't a positive gain even if only one problem/frustration occurs. Meaning i've heard some bsticks colors are nice for the money, but not flat out superior to other colors.

the jet i have is definately usable, but i just can't rock it as hard as onyx. didn't know if that was normal or if maybe i just have a bad batch.

[Loïc]

the " thinning " out of the colors has never been a problem to me... i Do FLAT DISK with my color rod to back out pendants, they never get so thin that i see that greenish neither...
so its not really about the color thinning out... its more about the color Burning Out .... ... and Bubblinggg.....

------

forget the Chinese color..... i cannot deal with losses, on a contract of 20,000 pendants, that mean over a 1000 loss !!! + the quality loss on the others ones, = i should redo like what , 1 or 2000 pendants, NO WAY, , , the time , and cost of all this will exceed the fact that ill use good color....

im not sure i even wanna think about second or odds...
Remember thats newbs will be beating this off into flat disk.... odd shape could take more time.... second could create bubble and shit in it...

------

Still figuring out between Jet Black and Onyx.....

i dont want bubble and burning....

[mer]

call abe, he just said he'd explain the difference. those are both colors he makes.

[michaeL25]

under bright light, even a thick backing of onyx will show green.

given your requirements and my experiences, i'd vote for onyx though.

[Braden Hammond]

"Remember thats newbs will be beating this off" ahh rrrr

[Loïc]

LoL Skullfish...

yes Mer ive. already discussed it with Abe... but im still debating, the occasionnal greyish that could occur on the Jet Black make me skeptic ...

[petto]

I have never had any grey with the jetblack. Been pulling tubes with it and it is glossy black.

[Mecha]

If you are getting grey with jet, turn your propane DOWN! It is actually pretty difficult to streak out this wonderful black, unless your flame is super ridiculously reducing (which would screw up a lot of your other colors too). It almost sounds like you have gotten jet mixed up with some other black, or received a bunch that was mis labeled. One time, wale sent me star white instead of parramore white. Neatly labeled as parramore, it only took about two seconds to tell that it was in fact star. Not to totally mark out to the jet, but you should give it another try. It is way better than onyx to be sure. Maybe try a different supplier this time?

[pacosaki]

get a 1/4 pound of each and try them. See what you like and what works for you. Give a stick of each to some noobs for........testing. Then you decide based on the results of your actual testing for your actual requirement.

[michaeL25]

If you are getting grey with jet, turn your propane DOWN! It is actually pretty difficult to streak out this wonderful black, unless your flame is super ridiculously reducing (which would screw up a lot of your other colors too). It almost sounds like you have gotten jet mixed up with some other black, or received a bunch that was mis labeled. One time, wale sent me star white instead of parramore white. Neatly labeled as parramore, it only took about two seconds to tell that it was in fact star. Not to totally mark out to the jet, but you should give it another try. It is way better than onyx to be sure. Maybe try a different supplier this time?

This was on the outside of a tube, along with encased crayons and unencased ns05 orange and ns09 yellow. The orange and yellow were completely clear on my finished piece; no reduction. the jet seemed to gray up and lose its shine when I pulled the tube down before i really started working it.

I'll pick up some from generations and see how it compares.

[menty666]

get a 1/4 pound of each and try them. See what you like and what works for you. Give a stick of each to some noobs for........testing. Then you decide based on the results of your actual testing for your actual requirement.

Probably some of the best advice so far...