Smoked Vol. 1 is sub-par

[Eric S]

Okay, I posted this in a punk-ass mood, and apparently the sarcasm wasnt dripping enough for everyone. I stand by my criticism of the binding, i've looked through this book 20-30 times, which is a lot but not excessive, and have pages falling out, though i live at high altitude with very low humidity. As i clarified in later posts that are also deleted now, I am SUPER-IMPRESSED with almost all of the work in the book, and when i said i could make things similar i wasnt saying i could make every piece in the book better, but that i could and have made pieces that carry similar themes or techs and i dont consider a few of the pieces in the book to be on the level of some of the other ones.

[The Lorax]

i agree on the hard cover... mine came with a dinged up corner which was lame.

photos seemed pretty good, glass isn't easy to take pics of and i can't say i have really sat down and done anything more than skim the book.

the pieces were all pretty sweet though... i feel some artists have posted better work before but that might not of been accepted into the book b/c they had already been posted on gp.org and stuff...
there was one piece that really made me wonder why it was in there (again i haven't really read the book only skimmed it) and it was the piece by "jahnny niles rise". its cool that i've never heard of this guy and he made it into the book, yea........ but at the same time this piece doesn't amaze me much and shouldn't be anywhere near the book i think.

and yea, i think there are some people who are in their basically b/c they are friends but thats life, and i'd rather see a book like this than none at all.

and i look forward to smoked II

[Mr. Whale dick]

i know i could make some of these pieces as good or better, but since all these ideas are so ubiquitous i wouldn't feel right putting my name on them as "my" idea.


wow thats a bold statement...

[Jones Art Glass]

...this is gonna be good.

[Eric S]

..

[jusbag]

if under par is good then is sub-par good?

[Eric S]

..

[jusbag]

heh, funny :).

[Dom]

Big Sky, post up your best piece. We can be the judge if you are any better that people in the book.

[budman8778]

^ dom said it big sky... put the $$ where your grills at...
you say its sub-par. What other book are you basing this grade off of? im not familiar w/ any?... I don't think there is any standard or tradition set in this area... thats exactly what this is,,, the first, setting the standard, low or high....?

Now heres my thing...
i agree the book could have been better... somewhat cheap quality binding for the price... (i would have paid a lil more for a nice hard cover as well)... I think the whole, has glass blowing got you laid question, is a lil bit out of place... i thought the idea was to give a real serious glimpse into the pipe making world... Hard to get the respect from other artists, using different mediums than our beloved boro, if they think one of the only reasons your into your art is to get laid...

IMHO it seems like it was a bit rushed.. They should have put more time into the interviews, i would have maybe suggested the pipers interviewing each other... i think much more relevant information would have come up that way...
and yes i agree that the pics where lacking, not necessarily poor quality, but just a lack of all angles and aspects of the pieces. there was several works in there, for example cowboys stemless...
He is quoted saying his favorite thing about the piece, is one of the discs on the side... well there isn't even a clear image of what hes talking about pictured...?

[nickglassdood]

sub·par (sŭb-pär') Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. Not measuring up to traditional standards of performance, value, or production.


what are the traditional standards of a pipe book haha?

when i first got it i was like ooooh its not hardcover, i didn't notice i couldn't open it all the way.

but i thought the pics were good , defiantly as good or better then some on gp.org all in all i bought 2 then got 1 as a gift so now i got 2 to give as gifts


i did think it was kinda weird and worded weird question to ask "has pipe blowing ever gotten you laid?" it might of said glass pipe blowing

but i think its great vol1

didnt reAd your post budman you hit my points tho b4 me

[Aymie]

First of all, my book opens all the way. Secondly, sounds like the dude that started this didn't make it in. I am not trying to be rude, but that is how it comes off to me. Sure, JOP, Snic, Slinger, Hops and a few others may be friends with JAG and the other dude that did the book but you can't say their work isn't worthy. Furthermore, all of the pieces submitted could not be sold and if accepted had to be turned over. While this book is an awesome idea it is just a baby and if I were a big baller glass artists I wouldn't be willing to save and hand over my best work ever to people making a book for the first time. No way to know if all would go well or if enough people would even buy the damn thing. Hard cover??? Do any of you have any idea what it costs to print 160 nice full color thick paper high gloss pages??? I think the pictures are great and glass is extremely hard to photograph. The work within the book is varied and nicely chosen in my opinion. As a writer, I even liked the interview questions, and it was the answers I found lacking. And why can't we talk about getting sex because of our craft AND be taken seriously. Everybody loves sex. And serious glassblowers often have groupies...or so I have been told by a couple of big name's wives. As a matter of fact, making pipes got me laid and resulted in some of the most serious and productive changes in my glassblowing career.

Anyway, I am very happy with the book...especially for it being a first of its kind and the first book they've printed. I am the proud owner of carefully chosen #656.

[The Lorax]

glassblowing didn't get you laid, most likely having a vagina did :party:

[MUPH]

Glassblowing has never got me laid, its got me phone numbers but no sealed deals

[Pakoh]

Some people DO shit.

Some people TALK shit.

Props to Grit City Inc. for elevating the pipe scene.

-peace*

[Clear_dome]

I'm pretty happy with the smoked 1 book but the only thing turn me off is that most of the pipes in this book are post on glasspipes with a tones of pix...I dont understand why the pix are not exlusif

[Ubatuba]

Props to Grit City Inc. for elevating the pipe scene.



Damn right. I can't believe people are nit picking this. It's a first edition, why not be proud to own a book that no one else had the balls and tenacity to do so? Show some support, and if your going to say it's crap, then organize, print, and publish a book yourself. 10$ not many would get all the talent Grit City had in it.

[newmexicomagma]

i havent posted in awhile but this is a good place tp start again. those aformentioned people worked hard to get where they are at. smoked isnt the first publication these people have been in. i havent seen the book but i think it is a great thing to have out there. i know this forum is for anything but imo that should stay at home. I am just surprised that someone would go on a publc forum and grill someones hard work. i dont personally know any of the guys but there glass skills are of the hook! Ive been trying to follow another lampworkers advice and keep my mouth shut and blow some glass. I think we can say what we want on the torch..........

[Slow]

My only complaints are of the "too little" variety...
The book was a bit smaller than I had expected. Whatever.
There were many angles of a few pieces, but most had only one or two pics. Of course, more pics would mean either smaller sizes or less pieces that could be featured. Still would have liked some more angles on a few of those pieces.
The Q&A pages were often rather superficial. If an artist doesn't feel like being very forthcoming, then that is his/her choice, but I always like to hear more from fellow artists (especially sick ones!).

That being said, I am glad to own a copy. I have a huge amount of respect for such skilled glass artists, not to mention those whose efforts created the book in the first place. I hope to see a Vol. II, and, with any luck, some of these (minor) concerns will be addressed.

[mer]

just a few things to keep in mind;

-5%-ish of people are going to hate on anything, if 1000 copies get sold there'll be around 50 haters.
-all criticism isn't just people who "talk shit", when phrased politely it could be considered constructive criticism.
-if you love the idea then support the cause, try to lift the scene up.

this book represents a lot of hard work, props to anybody who takes on such a huge task. it paves the way and opens doors for the next step in the legitimization of the pipe art scene, just as the degenerate show did. the fact is that this created a lot of public awareness for something we all love.

look for the full-size, 9"x12", coffee-table hardcover william morris quality catalog when we've paid our dues. after we've proven that we can move a $25 book somebody will be willing to back the $50 version and so on.

as for the politics of who was chosen... seriously, get over it. it's inevitable that everybody would have a different idea of what should be included. totally unavoidable problem, you can't please all the people all the time.

all that being said..... everything i've written is totally general because i'm still waiting for my copy. patiently.

[Aymie]

glassblowing didn't get you laid, most likely having a vagina did :party:

Making pipes was the shared interest that resulted in our connection but it was in fact the vagina that sealed the deal.




I am so glad someone in the book chimed in...sorry he came here and found haters. Great things are happening in our business and this book took us all one step closer to being considered legitimate artists at worst...even WITH bowls pushed in our work.

Furthermore, I agree with those above who have thrown down the gauntlet. Show me one thing any of you haters made or photographed that looks better/nicer/more professional that those in Smoked Vol. 1. And then, show me proof that you submitted your work and were denied. If you didn't try because you thought your own work was sub-par, only to find you may have been accepted, that is on you.

[Aymie]

all that being said..... everything i've written is totally general because i'm still waiting for my copy. patiently.


Maybe you can hit up one of the above who were unhappy and buy theirs for cheap

[mer]

Maybe you can hit up one of the above who were unhappy and buy theirs for cheap

actually, yeah. i'd take a second copy for the gldg library if anybody wants to sell their copy (or donate it for admission). i'll probably end up ordering a second copy though, mine was a christmas present so i don't want to donate it.

[Lurch]

I was happy with the book. I think it's awesome. Mine was opened many many times the night of the gallery opening (in hollywood) as I sought down the artists to get them to sign. They opened the book completely on the counters to sign my book. The binding is fine. I've read the book cover to cover and am impressed.

It was smaller than I imagined (Physical size wise, not content), but the book rocks. It isn' Glasspipes.org so you won't get 15 shots of the pieces at different angles. I think thats why now AFTER the book has been published and released we are seeing the artists post up their pics of their pieces on GP. So we can see more angles. They were NOT allowed to publish ANY pics of the pieces they submitted until after the book had been released, or they would have been disqualified from the book. While not all of the artists went with the most elaborate or biggest pieces they could have made. I think all the artists that were featured had a good piece that was very representative of their STYLE using TECHS that everyone share.

I am look forward to volume 2!!

[Chris Carlson]

i think most of the artists represented themselves well..it would have been nice to spend a month makin the craziest piece ever for the book..but thats not too realistic.. most of us are just surviving and it was a huge cost/risk to do this book...to send your piece,unphotographed, away for six months and hope they take the shots you would want, print the questions how you answered them, and not break them..

i think grit city did an amazing rookie performance..this is their first time doing this and they pulled it off pretty damn well..sure a couple hiccups, but come on.. this shit is awesome for us..all of us in the pipemaking community, not just those in the book..

if you can do better, i'm sure everyone here is encouraging you..step up.

[Royal]

i think the book is great, i bought 3 copies, gave 2 away for presents.

my book opens all the way and i think the pics are nice quality.

really stoked to see the 2nd version.

big up to grit city for makin the effort to spread the word of this great art.

[budman8778]

So, im not sayin the book was bad? dont want everyone gettin all huffy puffy about it...

Whats wrong with critiquing this book so that Vol. 2 is better? isn't that the point... progress? I dont think it all should be taking so negatively, build from it...

As far as the artists... In my opinion, every one of them deserved to be in that book, maybe not for the piece pictured, but for there overall impact on our world... If anyone can argue that otherwise, id love hear your reasons...
I can also say, there are a lot of artists who have done a lot, and weren't pictured... but there's only so many pages right?

Long story short, still dieing to hear about vol. 2
And will be pre- ordering it just like vol. 1...

[THAT Guy]

Does anyone know if they plan on selling the book in smoke shops? I could see that helping all parties involved. When I think of my pre-torching years as a glass pipe collector, I definitely would have bought something like that. Congratulations to all the people that worked on the project, I can't wait to get a copy!

Anyone willing to put up the financing, time and passion into a very cool project that they don't even know they're going to break even on deserves a hell of a lot of respect and should welcome (which I'm sure they do) CONSTRUCTIVE criticism with open arms.

[Dom]

Funny how bigsky hasnt posted shit.

Cmon sky, lets see some pics of your work.

[Greymatter Glass]

well, I bought 5 copies, and wish I'd ordered 25.

Bukner - come down, i got a couple copies for sale still.

CC (constructive crit, not you Chris):

The book is smaller than I expected, but that's ok. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's too small, but 9x11 would have rocked. And i would have bought a hard cover.

On the binding...Perfect Binding just isn't. If available, look into other options, or leave more margin for us to mangle the edge without messing up the pages. Perfect binding works in magazines with very thin pages, but a nice heavy stock like you guys used needs a better binding.

...

On the subject of what pieces are in there, I think it's great to have a range of pieces, after all this book may well inspire new collectors, and they can't all start out with a $5000 piece. Representing the range is great. It shows both the functional side and the wildly artistic side of what we do.

As for WHO is in there, didn't I see a post a while back calling for entries? Sorry not everyone who enters gets picked, and maybe you did think your piece was better, but maybe it just didn't fit the theme, or maybe you're just not vetted yet on the national scene. When shop owners see this they're looking at a catalog - the publishers had to choose people who are already somewhat represented, be-it at champs, or in high times, or CC, or just from the Internet. It's not just about sick glass, it's about integrity of the artists included, and the publishers.


And while on that subject, I'd point out there's a call for submissions for Vol. 2 posted here as well. Now's your chance!



Anyways, I am impressed with the book, I think it's a great first volume, and I think they set the bar just high enough to jump over on vol. 2, so I am getting my hopes up for it!

-Doug

[mer]

damn, i just now got my book in the mail and i'm fucking impressed. maybe some of you guys lowered the bar by making me think the binding was going to be the kind where the pages fall out and the pics would suck and the layout would suck and so on....

the binding is fine (we've seen way worse), the pics are great, the work is a good representation of what's going on in the glass world right now. i wasn't disappointed in the least. i haven't had time to read it cover to cover and the interview sheet seems slightly immature at first glance but i'm still excited to see what everybody wrote.

have you guys checked out other books being published in the same price range right now? seriously, it's the best/most ambitious book of pipe art made yet.

i'm knocking off early to go curl up and get lost in this thing.

[Dom]

I agree on the binding, its not bad at all. Each page only take about a minute to read.

The interviews too, some are too immature, especially sligers entry. Reminds me of a 15 year old girls myspace bio. lol

[ACE]

i haven't read every single post in this thread so im sorry if someone has already said this-

1. all the photos were sent in and taken by the same person/group of people. while i thought they were very nice, you don't need to agree, but don't trash the artists who submitted for not photographing it.

2. the artists were sent a questionare as their "interveiw". they had the option to take as much time or as little time as they chose. you shouldn't blame the people who took so much time to put this together for not forcing them to take it seriously if they didn't want to- everyone knew full well that what they wrote would be in print and they were representing themselves however they wanted.

3. ( this is 100% MY opinion and is probably not true and should not be taken seriously) something tells me this book was not aimed at just glassblowers, so if you're dissapointed cause the tutorial was janky than that might be your problem. it's not being sold at glass schools, it's being sold at places like urban outfitters. when i saw it, TO ME it just looked like a cool book- aimed at people who thought glass was cool....

4. i forgot. i'll bitch about it later i'm sure. *shakes fist*

[Dom]

ACE Im sure no one was looking for a tutorial, but I hope that for the second edition they have a little more time to work on it.

Everyone is appreciative of the effort they put into it.... hopefully. I know I am.

[ACE]

not everybody is appreciative, all you need to do is read the first several posts in this thread. i just thought i'd throw in my persepctive, and answer a few questions from the OPs original post. and add some of my own nonsense.

[Dom]

People will always talk shit.

"Nobody's right, till somebody's wrong"

[VOORHEES]

I don't have a copy yet, but a thousand thanks to Grit City for doing what everybody is thinking about.

A book series is what we need for people to take us pipers seriously.

I can't wait to see it.

[Tzonis]

Do any of you have any idea what it costs to print 160 nice full color thick paper high gloss pages??? .

It actually isn't all that much, BookSurge does 7 cents per page for color pages and will print them on the fly as ordered. Print on Demand is pretty cool :-). Yup thats all I have to add as I haven't seen the book.

-Tz

[Meta Glass]

Im still waiting on my copy but seriously man

theres a difference between calling something subpar and giving constructive criticism

[THAT Guy]

That would make it a minimum of $11.20 per copy without paying for anyone's time...sounds like a lot to me.


It actually isn't all that much, BookSurge does 7 cents per page for color pages and will print them on the fly as ordered. Print on Demand is pretty cool :-). Yup thats all I have to add as I haven't seen the book.

-Tz

[nickglassdood]

It actually isn't all that much, BookSurge does 7 cents per page for color pages and will print them on the fly as ordered. Print on Demand is pretty cool :-). Yup thats all I have to add as I haven't seen the book.

-Tz


dave i got a copy at the shop ill leave over there for you to check out


all in all its pretty sick and well worth it, like i said i would like bigger and hardcover but i think its well worth the price and a great overview of comtemp pipemaking

i love the m. slinger quote at the begining too

kudos guys

[bc]

I didn't read all of this post but come on, stop the hatin, it's the first of it's kind. I also think it's funny that dude who started this thread hasn't really been active in it,l an I'd like to see your glass.

No one hits a home run first time your up, live an learn just like glass. Hope to get a copy ( saw doods) an get the next one as well.

[Natedizzle]

I'm pretty happy with the smoked 1 book but the only thing turn me off is that most of the pipes in this book are post on glasspipes with a tones of pix...I dont understand why the pix are not exlusif

I posted my piece in the book on Gp.org for multiple reasons...

I wanted it to be part of my online portfolio since i don't have a website exclusively for my pipes yet...

I also wanted to show the scale of the piece... It is huge, and that is extremely difficult to show in photo's of it alone. I wanted those not able to see it in person to be able to grasp the size.

I wanted to support gritcityinc by posting my support of their hard work, and feel that any publicity for them is a good thing.

It started as a one week project... turned into three and a huge part of my life... I should be allowed to show it off however I please.


Now, even though Gp.org has been around for several years, there is no guarantee it will be forever... A book is permanent. And this book will forever be the first of it's kind... I can't thank all involved enough for actually making it happen instead of sitting online talking shit about how they could do it better. If you believe that... then lets see it.

dizzle

[Greymatter Glass]

Heavily acidified pulp paper life span, if kept in an archival vault _MIGHT_ last 75-100 years.

Glass masters for a CD or DVD are expected to last 300+ years.

Low density solid state devices made for archiving digital data have been tested under accelerated conditions to last 500+ years.

Of course any digital data has to be decoded by a computer, but I doubt we'll loose that technology any time soon. And by soon, I mean like 5000+ years if we make it that far.

...My money is that an archive somewhere of gp.org will be around much longer than any book on any shelf today.

The polyester base of the litho films used to print photo books can possibly last several hundred years, but again that depends on their condition when archived, and the availability of reproduction technologies.

...

just for whatever that's worth.

[Mr. Whale dick]

no shit ...i bet 100 bux he will never post pics...

[slinger]

yea, there was open invitations posted on multiple sites early last year calling fro entries for the book, i know for a fact it was posted on GP.org and im pretty sure on here as well,, so anyone had the opportunity to submit work, and the call for entries for Vol 2 is happening right now (forgot the deadline)

my only involvement with the book besides being a featured artist and writing the introduction,,, i must say im proud of the job Grit City did on this project. Not only did they succeed in their goal and present a nice survey of the present scene, they did it in a timely manner, which i appreciate being that ive been working on my film going on 3 years now...

the way to get the scene to the next level, for everyone, is documentation, so you have to give it up to these guys for like Vorhees said, doing what everyone else was just thinking about,,,

even though the thread title has a negative tone, its nice to see people discussing the book, any press is good press right??

cant wait for Vol 2

[Meta Glass]

where is the call thread for vol 2

I did a search and couldnt find it

[Greymatter Glass]

... I know I saw it.

Here's the call for entries for Vol. 1:
http://www.thegldg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18375&highlight=smoked

[Greymatter Glass]

Here is the entry for Volume 2

https://www.gritcityinc.com/events.php

[Udai Hussien]

who's got this book? anyone agree? its a combination of lots of things. as more than one person has mentioned before, the binding is jank and i cant open the book Blah blah Blah, Im gay, nor can I spell, importantly book next year.

now flame me.So Ummmm, dookie plooker, where are the pics? Put up or shut up?

[Clear_dome]

I posted my piece in the book on Gp.org for multiple reasons...

I wanted it to be part of my online portfolio since i don't have a website exclusively for my pipes yet...

I also wanted to show the scale of the piece... It is huge, and that is extremely difficult to show in photo's of it alone. I wanted those not able to see it in person to be able to grasp the size.

I wanted to support gritcityinc by posting my support of their hard work, and feel that any publicity for them is a good thing.

It started as a one week project... turned into three and a huge part of my life... I should be allowed to show it off however I please.


Now, even though Gp.org has been around for several years, there is no guarantee it will be forever... A book is permanent. And this book will forever be the first of it's kind... I can't thank all involved enough for actually making it happen instead of sitting online talking shit about how they could do it better. If you believe that... then lets see it.

dizzle

I understand all what you said , I mean .... if some peoples can see all the pix for free on gp maybe some of them will not buy the vol2 for this reason (hehe dont get me wrong I love the vol1 and wil buy vol2 for sure)

just think to cd and mp3 ...
anyway...still an awesome book ,great job !!

[J Howard]

i'm just glad somebody did something right? so it's not the best coffee table book, but it's a start. this pipe movement is still young right? glad somebody took the time to get something down.

i was glad to see that it had some new styles in it... had enough of re-balls and devil horns personally.

[ShttrdSpctrm]

I havent seen it yet, but I hear they cant spell names right. hahahahahahahaha.

there will always be haters. its more jealousy then anything else, most of the time.

someone say somethin about pics? :dieslaugh

[mer]

milan townsen doesn't seem like the kind of guy to take offense. he's chill, right?

[p.j.]

Doh!

[andrew brown]

I liked the book.. I liked it a lot... For what it is And will add it to my library of inspiration... Sure things can be improved with everything, even all of our own work can always be improved.. I thought some of the questions were silly, but be glad someone put the time, dough, and effort into putting it out.. It takes a lot of all of those to get a project like this to completion.
I also agree GA and GP are online galleries.. I have a long history of my work on my site and some pieces have been published, does it matter? not in my opinion.. I like seeing a solid body of work on either site. Current as well as older less refined work can give a nice broad spectrum of an artists work.
I say congrats! and good job, keep em coming..
Andrew

[andrew brown]

Oh, and I would have never put the size into perspective without the GP pics nate put up.. That must have been one hell of a punty.. sep?

[budman8778]

^definitely using the sep puntie up tech for that one... Pd taught it to me last time i was at his shop, but i think the humidity out here on the island is keeping me from perfecting it...

And dizz, definitely glad you posted those on GP... had NO idea how huge that swiss perc was... Honestly, thats the kind of thing im talking about, i would have featured a pic in the book of how big it is, some kind of size reference...

[ACE]

yeah, i gave nate's piece a big "HOLY SHIT!" when i saw it.

its fucking big.

[cowboy]

Love the book and being able to be a part of it~

Opened my copy several times without any mis-haps to the binding, Props to Nate, Grit City Inc. and everyone else involved~

Can't wait for Smoked Vol 2`

[mer]

yeah, i gave nate's piece a big "HOLY SHIT!" when i saw it.

its fucking big.

snicker...

[ACE]

....doodle

[Ben 'Spice' Crowley]

ok i rate it sub par as I ordered two and have contacted these guys multiple times and I still have no books! SUB FUCKING PAR BUSINESS ETHIC

[The Lorax]

i read through it all and the book itself IS sub-par. the art, is not.

some of my binding already seems to be coming apart.

a lot of pages have ink smudges from the pages being smushed together... apparently they couldn't wait long enough for it to dry. i got 1 or 2 inky finger prints as well.

and lastly there's a few grammar mistakes / typos... one being "paul troutman" rather than trautman when someone listed their materials... i would think the the artists would at least double read / check their entries... but i guess not.

it does seem rushed as well....

[Midas]

I haven't got my copy of Smoked Vol.1, But I congratulate Nate and B.j., A lot of great ideas never go further then the breathe they are spoken with. But these guys went forward with there Idea,and probably never put together a book like this before.

Look at the first copy of The Flow, compared to the new issue it is sub-par ( even though it is one of my favorite, cause it is the first)

Wil and Jenifer never did a magazine before, They put it together in a one bedroom apartment on a old dinosaur computer. The desk was actually set up in the kitchen. Makes working during lunch time very easy!

Cut them some slack, they had the motivation to do this project, So we need to support them to help support our industry.

If you have constructive criticism, let the guys know about it before you start a negative thread-G

Grant "Midas" Menzies
"I'm going make it do what it do, Baby"

[mer]

ok i rate it sub par as I ordered two and have contacted these guys multiple times and I still have no books! SUB FUCKING PAR BUSINESS ETHIC
didn't you make some guy on here wait over a month for a used kiln he had paid you for? (http://www.thegldg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18296)


i read through it all and the book itself IS sub-par. the art, is not.

some of my binding already seems to be coming apart.

a lot of pages have ink smudges from the pages being smushed together... apparently they couldn't wait long enough for it to dry. i got 1 or 2 inky finger prints as well.

and lastly there's a few grammar mistakes / typos... one being "paul troutman" rather than trautman when someone listed their materials... i would think the the artists would at least double read / check their entries... but i guess not.

it does seem rushed as well....
can't wait to see your book when it comes out. you'll show these guys how it's *really* done.

[Ubatuba]

It's seems the noobs are restless...

[Aymie]

I would almost believe two sets of this book were published. My binding is just fine and my book has been opened and looked through completely on a daily basis since I bought it two weeks ago. Furthermore, not a single ink smudge or smear.

And lastly, grammar mistakes are not the fault of the book makers. Fixing those would have been changing the interview which is bad journalism. All things must be quoted exactly as they are or all changes made must be noted in some way. How booty would it look if they had to leave a little editorial marks where they had changed the interview responses.

Seriously, I want to start a thread titled "people who think their work/photography/bindery skills surpass those in Smoked Vol. 1" and see what you guys have to throw down. Great things are happening in our business and great artists are getting a chance to be recognized as just that by the general public...I would think we could all find some shared joy in this. I have met a large chunk of the artists featured in Smoked and I can't say I found a single one to be anything other than amazingly supportive...wish I could say the same for so many of you. I guess it is just so much easier to hate with your computer than to help with your own two hands. Has anyone at all tried to contact Grit City and actually offer some constructive criticism? Anyone actually done something to make it better next time?

And once again, where the hell are your pictures BigSky???

[jr23]

Maybe He is a golfer and sub par means good like 7 under par! He has threads with work shown in them I think.

[Mac Maestro]

Why can no one express an opinion around here without posting pictures??

Go to GP and look on the top 10.


Looking forward to seeing the book so I can hate hate hate... ;)

All kidding aside big ups to the makers of ALL glass publications. From the high end productions to the ones done in crayon.

[Mecha]

didn't you make some guy on here wait over a month for a used kiln he had paid you for? (http://www.thegldg.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18296)


can't wait to see your book when it comes out. you'll show these guys how it's *really* done.

Double snap!

I haven't seen the book yet, but I plan on ordering one pretty soon. Even if it is not perfect, as said many times before, it is the first of it's kind. Hopefully all the feedback will be taken into consideration and volume two will be that much better.

[nickglassdood]

now that ya mention it i do have a big resin smudge finger print on the mnp page, but i think thats just from the person who got it at the exhibit and sent it as an x mass gift, now just to get the rest of the artists to sign it that would be cool
mine opens plenty far enough, the binding is holding up, just want the other copys i i ordered

[Aymie]

Why can no one express an opinion around here without posting pictures??

Go to GP and look on the top 10.



I only think he should post pictures because his posted opinion was that he could outdo all of the work in the book.

I go to GP often...if BigSky goes by some other name let me know...I don't see that name anywhere on the top 100, much less the top ten.

[The Lorax]

i'm not saying i'd do better b/c i don't plan on publishing a book. i am just giving CC to make the next one better, don't hateeeeee.

[mer]

now that i've had time to absorb the book more fully i'd like to offer a simple review of my impressions of Smoked Volume 1.

i made some mention earlier that i think it's well photographed and the design/layout is excellent. after immersing myself in the book repeatedly for a couple evenings i feel even more strongly that m. scott whitson and jes sipling did an amazing job designing a book that is a treasure to behold. more than once i've gotten to the last page and flipped right back to the first to see it all it again. i haven't had a book do that for me in quite a while. big thanks to grit city for organizing such a massive and ambitious undertaking.

my only constructive criticism would be that the writing/editing deserved a little more attention. i would have enjoyed interviews instead of questionnaires. most of the questions were great but the "arrested" and "laid" questions really didn't add much and probably turned off some of the art crowd that might have otherwise been swayed towards legitimization of the scene.

the artists statements and bio's were *great*. i thought that salt and dizzle expressed themselves particularly well.

okay, on the binding issue...

my copy has been flipped through at least 50-75 times. it's been fully read cover to cover at least 5 times. i opened the pages all the way so i could get a good look at everything, haven't babied it at all. i see no problem with the copy i got and my wife ordered it for me as a christmas present so i'm certain that i didn't get special treatment because of my position or visibility here.

i'd hate to see somebody shy away from the book because they believe that it's going to fall apart. to that end i took a couple pics of the binding of my well loved copy (definitely the most popular book on my coffee table right now). i didn't get permission so if anybody involved with the book wants me to remove these pics i'll gladly oblige. i just wanted to show that it's *not* a weak binding.

[Greymatter Glass]

Ok, I really do like the book.... already said that. And this is CC. Sometimes CC isn't "fair" or "nice" but this is honest.


I'd say the biggest problem with the binding is that it uses just glue. In very warm and dry conditions that glue can dry out and stop holding.

That said, I have piles of perfect bound books, and only a very few of them are falling apart from bad gluing, and it doesn't get much drier than New Mexico.

The only soft cover bindings I'm aware of that would last longer are like comb and spiral style, and Unibindings. All of which have similar pros and cons to Perfect binding.



On the subject of the Interviews - I am actually fairly disappointed with the question about getting laid and a bit less with the one about being arrested.

The one about getting laid is immature. As this book presumes to represent the pipe making culture beyond just the artists represented in Vol. 1 I can't say I feel excited by such a sophomoric approach to an interview.

As for the arrest question, I feel it's an attempt to acknowledge the very real legal aspects of making "Paraphernalia", but misses the point entirely. Instead is seems to glorify the "Prison Rep" mentality that is so predominant among urban cultures. Why should someone who's been in jail get ANY respect for it? Why would an artist who is trying to self represent wear any police record on their sleeve? Furthermore, it gets to the representation of the whole pipe maker, and in association lampworking community, as a group of underground criminals, not respectable artists.

I'd rather know their academic background, influences, sources, and philosophies than have their dirty laundry rubbed in my face. Had I known that content would be in the book would it affect my decision to buy it? No. But again, I'm not the audience I'm worried about.

Discretion isn't censorship.

-Doug

[skip]

I have my record in old english on my stomach........


then it runs down my leg back up again and around up to my shoulders.

[nickglassdood]

dood its the holidaze mail is slow

[Dom]

I really like the pictures and the layout, thought that was done very well.

But I wish that people wrote real serious bios, like sling, snic and arty, cant remember if there were others.

I thought the whole point of this book was to be serious and give some factual information as well.

[mikejones]

Does this book cover any techniques? I am assuming the big dogs aren't giving up techs for free.....just wondering. Also that Tattoo book they published looks sweet too.

[Sometime79]

Wow in the past I thought a lot of people just spoke to hear themselves out loud. Now this interweb has given the super bored an outlet to criticize and talk shit. Big sky POST YOUR SHIT UP!!!!!!!!!. Anyone who has gone to school for graphic design and gone on to work pre-press publication and knows how expensive it is to produce a publication understands the cost verse quality limitations of print publications. The limitations alone of a first edition are huge. It will be better in the future no doubt. Yes there may be politics in selection of the artists, who cares in the end. Almost every glass artist I know has sold their most impressive work before they could take pictures because they had to put food on the table, so why would we expect this book to have the best work these artists have ever made. The diversity of the book was awesome, yeah you expected some of the artists to be in the book because they are in certain circles, but what the fuck their work is on point and deserves to be in the publication. To the Lorax who questioned why Jahnny Rise (John Niles) had a piece in the publication it is because he is a prime fucking example of pipemaking. Jahnny has worked hard as hell in one of the worst retail glass economies (OREGON) let alone in Portland where it is nearly impossible to get headpieces sold. Jahnny is underground as a motherfucker. He is not on the internet posting shit he has made he is working to pay the bills to keep working to pay the bills to keep working. Jahhny Rise does not give a shit about recognition, he cares about glass, and art. He was a great entry into the book because he is pipe art. Buy the next book it will be good, not the best ever, but who cares. BIG SKY get on point and post it up.
Much respect to Art, Glass, and not giving a fuck!
Peace-Ian

[Meta Glass]

yo
did anyone else notice the site is gone

not really stoked that this happened and i still haven't gotten my book

[Dom]

Pretty sure its still there.

[Meta Glass]

http://www.smokedvolume1.com is gone the gritcity site is

that was just wierd i dunno i want mah book :/

[Pakoh]

https://www.gritcityinc.com/

[Ben 'Spice' Crowley]

I ordered my copy the first day it was announced on this forum.
I double ordered just to make sure it went through because I had a connection issue
This was way more than a month ago now
I waited patiently
I read all the great things about others getting their books and waited another week before wondering
Then I contacted the sellers, they said they had been shipped and should arrive shortly
So I waited another 12 days, then contacted them again to see if they had been returned to sender or if something had actually gone wrong with the shipment.
I was told my order must have been missed, and that they were doing a drop shipment and to call or email on friday
That was the friday just past.
Still no books (although if they were shipped friday I wouldn't have them yet)
Now I see others haven't gotten there's as well
I personally Screwed up a buisness deal once by not shipping goods that had been paid for and lying about it so I am pre-disposed towards believing I'm getting screwed (having seen first hand both sides of the card) My screw up was fixed and all went well so I hope for the same, but I still have no books and with the claims made I believe I have place to shout sub-par business ethic in this case.

If you do reference the thread from Mer's post understand I DID SCREW THAT UP REALLY BAD and I'm sorry for whoever's toes I stepped on back then, it was an angry time and stress got vented innappropriatley.

If the guys responsible for the book read this, please just drop me an honest line on when I should expect my books.

[Greymatter Glass]

Mine did take about an extra week because it was originally sent to a non-existent address (they misspelled the name of my street)...

but whatever.

[Cosmo]

Anyone who has gone to school for graphic design and gone on to work pre-press publication and knows how expensive it is to produce a publication understands the cost verse quality limitations of print publications. The limitations alone of a first edition are huge. It will be better in the future no doubt.

I haven't seen the book, so I can't comment on this book in particular, but having been the head of the graphic design/pre-press department for a printing company for the better part of 20 years, I can say that this isn't true.

And there are many ways to make perfect binding stand up to the test of time. If indeed this book is falling apart, I'd be willing to bet they just went the cheapest route.

I would like to see a copy of this book if anyone near me has one. My curiosity has been piqued...

[n3rd]

I double ordered just to make sure it went through because I had a connection issue

are you sure you were charged? its possible maybe both didn't go through due to the connection issue.

i think this book is fantastic! i couldn't be happier with it!!! its a hell of an accomplishment for gritcity and all the artists featured. amazing glass, really great photos, and i like the insight from the artists. i can't wait for volume 2!

[Dallaslampworking]

[QUOTE=n3rd;i think this book is fantastic! i couldn't be happier with it!!! its a hell of an accomplishment for gritcity and all the artists featured. amazing glass, really great photos, and i like the insight from the artists. i can't wait for volume 2![/QUOTE]

What he said, it was one of the best Xmas gifts I received.

steve/Lodi

[mer]

I haven't seen the book, so I can't comment on this book in particular, but having been the head of the graphic design/pre-press department for a printing company for the better part of 20 years, I can say that this isn't true.

And there are many ways to make perfect binding stand up to the test of time. If indeed this book is falling apart, I'd be willing to bet they just went the cheapest route.

I would like to see a copy of this book if anyone near me has one. My curiosity has been piqued...

check post 75 of this thread, i put up some pics of the binding. it's not falling apart at all. i know it's hard to read through a thread this long but i don't understand why the binding is an issue at all. can anybody post a pic of a copy where the binding had an problem? unless there are two versions i don't get it...

[Dom]

Yea I dont get it either, its not like I had to open the book completely flat to read it anyway.

[Diggy]

TO ALL THE HATERS: Go S your mom's D. This book will be around a lot longer and will have more POSITIVE influence that you ever will. Props to GC

[Cosmo]

check post 75 of this thread, i put up some pics of the binding. it's not falling apart at all. i know it's hard to read through a thread this long but i don't understand why the binding is an issue at all. can anybody post a pic of a copy where the binding had an problem? unless there are two versions i don't get it...

I see where the potential problem is. When you use perfect binding, you generally score the cover about 1/16" from the corner of the binding, and add glue around the edges of the bound inside. That way when the cover opens the stress point isn't at the corner where the binding joins.

With the way they bound it, they are just taking a chance it will stay together. The more pages inside the higher the risk. Sometimes they will stay together fine, sometimes they won't.

[Udai Hussien]

TO ALL THE HATERS: Go S your mom's D. This book will be around a lot longer and will have more POSITIVE influence that you ever will. Props to GCwow, ewe so S-M-R-T!!! ewe mak de glazz comune lok reel brite!

[Smoked Vol. 1]

Hi everyone... This is Brian (co-owner) of GritCityInc. We have really been enjoying this thread and wanted to say thanks to everyone for there support, even the HATERS. We worked really hard on this product for a full year and it is great to know that people are excited about it. We will be sure to bring all of your criticism and feedback to the table when working on Volume 2 to make it even better. THANKS!

Now on to the issues...

1) As for the binding, we went with a soft cover for financial reasons. This is our first book and the sales of Volume 1 will allow us to make Volume 2 even better (hardcover).

As for quality, the binding method we used is called a "Burst" binding. In burst binding the sections of text are pierced along the spine with slot perforations during the folding operation. The sections are then collated and bound by a method similar to that used in perfect binding. The only difference is that the spine of the book is not removed; instead glue is rolled onto the spine and forced through the perforations so that the book is securely held together. Burst binding is more durable than perfect binding.

All the sections of text are sewn together. You can see the stitching if you open to the center of a grouping of pages.

FYI... I am also the Owner and Creative Director of a Philly-based design studio and I produce a very high quality magazine in Philly so I know a lot about the subject. There is no reason these should be falling apart unless you are using the book for other things than it is intended for.

2) We have hired a very good writer for volume 2 who will be conducting interviews with all selected artists in Volume 2 so expect longer and more in depth interviews, a couple of essays and some other good stuff as well.

3) www.smokedvolume1.com was temporarily down for a few days. Our server crashed and we were not aware. We are back up and running. Sorry for any inconvenience.

4) We shipped all book that were ordered before the 16th of Dec. on the 18th. We shipped all orders 3-day priority and at the same time. Due to the volume of packages no tracking numbers were given to us. We know a lot of people have not received books and have shipped new books to all of those who have let us know. We can not speak for the US Postal service but holiday shipping is tough. Thanks for your patients.

5) Here is the link to the information about submitting for Smoked Volume 2.
https://www.gritcityinc.com/events.php

The info is in the Event section of the site. Please make a note of all deadlines and instructions as we expect more submissions this time around and will not be able to review entries that have not followed the guidelines. Spread the word!

Again, thanks for all of your support and feedback. We respect your opinions good or bad. I can promise you all that GritCityInc will always deliver the highest quality product that we can within our means.

... and if anyone wants to voice their frustration personally please email us at info@gritcityinc.com.:tantrum:

Thanks and Happy New Year!

Brian

[Cosmo]

As for quality, the binding method we used is called a "Burst" binding. In burst binding the sections of text are pierced along the spine with slot perforations during the folding operation. The sections are then collated and bound by a method similar to that used in perfect binding. The only difference is that the spine of the book is not removed; instead glue is rolled onto the spine and forced through the perforations so that the book is securely held together. Burst binding is more durable than perfect binding.

That's not true, actually. Perfect binding is much more durable. Of course, that's just my experience from doing it for the last 20 years...

[Meta Glass]

yo

fuck the binding
youre not reading it
ive gone through 3 copies of be here now cuz the binding fell apart
doesnt mean it isnt a good book

stoked for volume 2
some essays and more indepth writing is gonna push it over the edge

can we expect another sweet release party

[Mark F]

4) We shipped all book that were ordered before the 16th of Dec. on the 18th. We shipped all orders 3-day priority and at the same time. Due to the volume of packages no tracking numbers were given to us. We know a lot of people have not received books and have shipped new books to all of those who have let us know. We can not speak for the US Postal service but holiday shipping is tough. Thanks for your patients.

I placed my order on Oct. 25 and was charged and still don't have my book. I've sent emails with my order receipt and have not received a response back from Grit City. I've seen the book briefly and would like to enjoy my copy that I ordered so long ago.


Merchant : Grit City, Inc.
Date/Time : 25-Oct-2008 01:40:05 PM
Transaction ID : 2150721298

[Blade]

Thought the book was well done for the production length. I can only imagine what a challenge it must have been to organize and execute a project like this.
Cant wait for vol 2
-B

[Smoked Vol. 1]

Mark - Sorry for the delay. Our records show your book was sent out on the 18th with everyone else. It must be lost in the mix with a few other peoples orders. We have been trying to get to everyone's emails so I apologize if no one ever got back to you. Please email dan@gritcityinc.com with you address again and we will get another book out to you asap.

Meta - You can expect an even better release party! count on it.

[The Lorax]

whats the deadline for submitted pieces??

[n3rd]

whats the deadline for submitted pieces??

• All entries must be received by May 1st, 2008
• You will be notified by June 1st, 2008 if any of your entries have been selected.

should this say 2009?

[Big Jay]

so who wants to sell me their used copy? Hit me with a PM.

[mandala]

uhm, my new copy of "500 glass objects" just fell apart after a week.
props to the ambitious artists making it happen.

[lucidvisions]

Not sure why there's some bitching going on about the book. Bandhu Dunham showed us his in Philly and we were blown away at it's quality and design. Great job guys! I guess I got to get my own copy now since Bandhu held onto it like gold.

Josh

[p.j.]

i got a copy from one of my shops and i think the book is a great start.

the shop owner said "i wish the book was bigger" which seems to echo the main criticism of most people.

the grit city dudes did something that should be applauded.

i can't wait to see vol 2.