Damnit another Stick Stack

[Matt Hess]

Is the "Stick Stack" technique the "wrap and rake" of the new mellinium?
Talk amongst yourselves.
I am vaclempt.

[d-mitchell]

i dont know..i dont do em, they are a pain in the ass.i tried one and went back to inside out.wrap and rake is easy so ill say its not like wrap and rake

[NUBBLET]

I think their a bit too common , even if they are nice .

[jusbag]

It's just a technique to get a desired result right? Just like the wrap 'n rake or the disk flip, implosion, cut/flip, taco, fume 'n fart, shocker...

[d-mitchell]

the fume n fart sounds fun eh

[Utopian Brain]

ive kinda felt like peeps are taking line tools a little too far
For a little while i was seeing nasty line sections everywhere
of course because of the stick stack
i dont go out enough i think so theres probably an even more ferocious infestation
I still lay my lines, i think it looks bettter
but line tools do work nice, ill be making mine soon
but yes, that seems to me the new trend also, at least the colors look nice!!!!

[rustyglass]

I dont think it is. I bet there are a ton of lampers that cant afford to use a QP of color per go. And a ton of them that dont have a big enough torch to do it either. Then there is a skill factor involved that even if you could sleeve a bunch of rods, you still have to do something with them. Average Joe can wrap a tube the first week on a torch but cant stack sticks....

Line tool??? Ive done a ton of stacks and never used a line tool. Unless a rod and a clamp and some rubberbands are considered line tools.

[john madden]

yeh i dont think its gotten to the production level that wrap and rake is at. some people do bust them out though, but its not nearly as easy as w&r. contrasting line sections is def where its at though

[PyroChixRock]

this doesn't make any sense...wrap and rake is a style to decorate your glass piece, stick stack is a technique used to make color tubes which in turn get made into many many different styles.

[Batou]

sure w&r is easier and less expensive than stick stacking but lately i have seen tons of stacked pieces that though they are great looking, its becomming too common to be special.

just my .02

[jusbag]

A colored tube is too common? I think so too... Everything should just be clear damnit! :lol

[broken glass]

got to agree with Misha, Is it full color tube with line pattern you do not like? Does i/o count? How about rod encased or tube incased pulls? Do u like it when one color is stick stacked to make a sold color tube( no lines?) How about if that is honeycombed? I don't get it

[Chris Carlson]

i use wrap n rake to make tubes, which in turn get made into many styles. i've never done a successful stick stack. i still love reversals, but i agree that, instead of learning wrap n rake, kids are learning reversal tubing first. so, in that sense its the same. my buddy gets offered $50 every time he comes to our shop to make a perfect wrap n rake spoon. he makes $300 headdies and he cant/wont do it. so i say , keep reversin it up, it'll make my wrap n rake just that much more unique in a couple years. it's all trends. whats next? looks like its back to cut n flips and I/O. the cycle continues, no matter what medium. reversals will be retro in a few years anyway.

[PyroChixRock]

few years? reversals are already out...

[homer]

yeah, standard reversals are out......really lame....

I am finding new love for them by doing inlays.

As far as stick stacks, I used to do them all the time. After getting some sick art from JEH, I realized I/O tube pulls using stringers had soooo much more detail. Now I do nothing but I/O for my pulls. I can get 100+ lines in a flare and get sick fucking fades and it looks like fine pencil lines instead of crayon art made by a 3 year old.....

Homer

[Chris Carlson]

out now, retro in a few years....

[rumplephorskin]

stick stack was cool and cutting edge like 5 yrs ago. That seems to be about when the Badtram picture pipes were on their way out. I wonder whats next. I think im gonna go off on the coil pot reversals again myself

[Stratisphere]

I'd really like to see some pics of these tube pulls made with stringers. I've bee curious how those line tools work. For instance, do you think that the reversals on these pipes were made by tube pull or line tool? Seems to be alot of lines for a tube pull....
http://www.glasspipes.org/Gal12815_Ozone_layers.asp

[JANKYglass]

i can guarantee it wasn't a line tool since adam don't own one or need one since his i/o stringer prowess is only surpassed by my wrap and rake.

but i would have to say that there stick stack sections especially since there silver colors and you can sleeve them without letting the flame atmosphere change the nuclei.

the second piece (without the flower) looks like i/o drawn line theres to many lines to be a stick stack.that is unless he used some of that 256 mil hvy wall that todd at csg has been hand pulling for some of his larger clients.

[broken glass]

reversals will be out when people stop getting tribal tattoos....................never gonna happen, yet some people will choose to get all colored out tattoos(puke), or sick black and white shadded tatts......and life goes on. Id way rather not be the person who is so kewl to tell people what is in and waht is not in. Its a fuckin opinion.......Personally in 2001 i was blowing out thinnass flares to lay rod in and get the exact same stick stak look because i got tired of lines. A while later I moved to all i/o line pulls because laying rod in thin flares is time consuming. Now I am back to stick stack most of the time because I get the look i want and it doesn't take too long. Dots get old too, It boils down to either doing what you personally think looks good, or trying to be in with the in croud.

The tribal tatts go back to tradition, and the reversal follows in that tradition, the mouri (sp) recognized the spiral as a symbol of the cycle of life. I am curious to know how many people are talking shit on reversals and then have tribal tatts on for life. :tongue:


O and Chris, 50$ for a perfect wrapand wrake, What?! Are you serious?? Should i come visit and make 6 an hour for 8 hours at 50$ per piece, is it still on?lol

[Chris Carlson]

i make perfect wrap n rakes too. used to be 30- 40 a day. its just punking the guy(myboy eric, who taught me lined tubing) that never had to make production. i wish that offer stood for me, i give him my spoons for $8. for the record- i love how reversals look, but if you want your headdie to blend in with a sea of reversal pieces at the shop..... also... i got plenty of tattoos, not one of them tribal!!!!!

[glasshead]

Reversals wil never go out of style because they are pure eye candy and will always be nice to look at. Personally, I find wrap'n'rake to be visually boring most of the time. Yes, wrap'n'rake can look dope, but most of the time its just ugly production style. Anyways on the topic of tribal tatts...Tribal tatts are ugly while reversals are eye candy. I hate seeing all theses frat boys with their lame, trendy tribal tattoos. Its like, dude what tribe? The only tribe these people belong to is Alpha Beta Fagga....And what's all this talk about line tools? Who actually uses one of these? I dont know anyone who does. It doesnt take too much skills to lay some friggin lines by hand. Jesus christ if u need a line tool to lay lines, quit blowing glass. Not to mention in the time that it takes to pull all those stringers to put in the line tool, u could be done laying em by hand. What a joke.

[bearclaw]

it's all means to an end.. line tools are bogus.

[GGB]

For me it all boils down to what Alex taught me about selling my work. Mix it up, use all the styles and techs. Sometimes the shops want wrap-n-rakes sometimes they want tube pulled peices, or fumed stuff ... etc... It cant hurt to have a variety in your case. What seams like a lame ass style or tech to you, might be exactly what a custy is looking for. Same with colours and patterns, what you think looks ugly someone might love. Show me the $$$ dam it..... :tongue: All techs have there spot in someones heart.

[d-mitchell]

"O and Chris, 50$ for a perfect wrapand wrake, What?! Are you serious?? Should i come visit and make 6 an hour for 8 hours at 50$ per piece, is it still on?lol"

no shit ....my girl does 25- 30 a day....and thats not even in eight hrs,...and she only gets 5 bucks a pop

[john madden]

i havent tried stick stack yet, but wouldnt it be a lot easier than layin lines on a flare. sure you get a lot of lines and they look real thin when you pull it out with i/o stringers, but you dont get as much tube right? ive never made a fully worked reversal peice, like all tribal or whatever, just cuz the i/o tech takes too fucking long, and a fully reversal peice looks stupid in my oppinon. i like inlays of reversals or bowties. really makes them stand out. i dont know maybe ill just stick to layin stringers for the inlays. i ussally dont use that many re-balls for a peice anyway

[$$$$$$$]

I just read this thread for the first time. for the record, both of those pieces are ISO.

[Mark F]

Word, GGB. I feel the same way.

[10FennyGlass]

my buddy can do a pretty sic stick stack, but can w+r for shit, he cant do prodo, but can do alright headies. im confsued, he got kicked out for bein arogant though

[NOFO]

I still love the reversals, just love the look, and they are not " out " I took a class with jason lee ( the reversal king if you ask me ) and he said he first saw a reversal on a 50 year old german vase, so how could they be out after being in for longer than most of us have walked the planet ?? it all comes in cycles, it's in ....it's out......it's in''''it's out..... I say if it looks cool to you it's in, is that not what art is all about ? It a design affects you in a certin way then it should never be " out " . I hope I never get to the point where I like something because it's " in ". If I ever start to follow trendy art because it is trendy, please someone take me out to the pasture and and put a bullet in my fuckin head.

[WORLD FAMOUS]

"Stop creating work to showcase your techniques and start using the techniques to showcase your work" - Robert Mickelsen

[WORLD FAMOUS]

Hope I didn't butcher that...

[diglassworks]

I think stick stack and w&r both look nice when done properly. I don't think it's so much about the technique itself as it is the application, color scheme, and the flow of the piece.

[Royal]

ive seen sick ass wrap and rake shit. like dig said its all about colors and technique.

[The Lorax]

i've seen stick stack preparation pictures... and emailed the people who had them with no response... how do you put use to the stick stack? (sorry dumb question)

[Satori]

Lorax - You use your stick stacked tube just like you use any tube of glass. The only difference is that this tube is solid color lines instead of maybe just solid color or i/o lines. You can tear it into sections and twist them up and reattach them and make a piece. That seems to be a popular approach, but really, once you have the tube pulled, you can do whatever you want with it!

Try one out sometime if you've got a big enough torch. Be ready to mess some shit up though...I know I made a couple mistakes on my first two stick stacks. Check out the finished products of my first two stick stacks HERE (http://www.glasspipes.org/Gal14944_Some_recent_bubs.asp)

Also, a sick stick stack tutorial is HERE (http://www.glassartists.org/Gal12061_How-To__Stick_Stack.asp)
(props to n8 on the tutorial.)

Hope this helps out dude! Post some results when you got em!

[Skye Perry]

For me it all boils down to what Alex taught me about selling my work. Mix it up, use all the styles and techs. Sometimes the shops want wrap-n-rakes sometimes they want tube pulled peices, or fumed stuff ... etc... It cant hurt to have a variety in your case. What seams like a lame ass style or tech to you, might be exactly what a custy is looking for. Same with colours and patterns, what you think looks ugly someone might love. Show me the $$$ dam it..... :tongue: All techs have there spot in someones heart.
I agree styles and piece type change from time to time .Do whats in to get by .Why not

[mer]

making head pieces with high end techniques like stick stack is fun and when the piece comes together it's (hopefully) something to be proud of. that being said, i personally can't take the pressure of depending on steady income from them. a failure late in the piece can easily cost me two days work. i think that it's best to work on headies a little bit each day in order to stay inspired while i bust production that will pay the bills.

[Izzy Spun]

"Stop creating work to showcase your techniques and start using the techniques to showcase your work" - Robert Mickelsen

RAM's the man... never heard it said better

[HumanLathe]

I think the comparison of the two isn't possible "Stick Stack" was created for prep-work, Stick Stack generally is not the actual finished pattern itself.

Like many people this technique has insanely changed the way I use striking colors. Being able to encase the striking colors without the color rods touching the flame, allows you to get colors that were unattainable and control them for long periods of time in the flame.

I M O I also feel that any line pattern done can be done 500% better through cane stacking, you think it looks cool having 100 lines in a tube. Try drawing a hundred on a 3in wide by 4inch long by 1 ¾ in thick patty and pull your self a cane, stack it in to a box blow it out fume it and then pull it down you will have yourself a 400 line tube woop de doo.
I S O is played and can be done better and more efficiently through cane pulling. ……AAAANNND:D your colors will be WAY more vibrant when using more color by making a huge cane and drawing bigger lines and pulling the cane down to create the detail you see in ISO work and even more.

[Harry Paratesteez]

Yall are silly.....
take a wrap an rake, split it , then reverse it, strike it, then reverse that, and implode it, then flip it and encase it , rake it again, dip in snow,then strike it again...keep it in the kiln for 45 days above 1400, then rub it on a dogs balls, and lick that......thats the ill tecs yo.....

[Harry Paratesteez]

biggles does it all the time.......one of his best sellers

[fearyfyre1269]

Yes and No. Yes because many can and do it a lot. No because wrap n rake is so olo old old school I think before A.D. So it is just to soon to say what will compare to wrap n rake as far as the time line, another nice way to do raking is running lines down a tube or rod then swing them all over to make super tight lines for rakes.. But I love stick stack is fun to do I like it with 1 inche and over tubing. It is great prep color tubing great for marble making, blowing ect.

I been think of squaring some tubing then make some mixed color strips 1 or more inches wide, 4 to 6mm thick then sleaving 4 inside a tube. Tubing would have to be 50mm . Just a idea. I will if you will..HaHa. I have made some stick stack tubing where I put stringers between each color. Just because there is space that can be filled. So like 6mm 6mm between them on top 2mm and so on so on.looks nice.

Tod

[mckinney]

Its a fad that the glass collector want. they want that "solid look". It will change again when someone comes up with something knew that the public will pay big $ for. I beleive that the true future in all fine glassware, not just pipes, is in sculpture. Sculptural peices like some of Banjos new stuff with the female/godess forms or reptiles, reef scenes, insects, etc... That is the future... just my opinion of course that doesn't mean that a student should neglect to learn a tech becuase it will come back to bite yer butt. For instance I came on the scene just as Stick stacking was getting big and I don't know what a Dot box is....

[Merlin]

Chinese color tube is the new w+w

[e-jipt]

damn, the votes are tied at 36-36

[kraig]

I think the question was wrong it needs to be like this
is stick stack the new prodo vs rap n rake.
I think it is going that way with china makeing all i/o

Ive been doing stuff n puff spoons to try and keep it different

[Doc Holliday]

urine encasments are the ulitmate prodo line spoooooooons!

[CripSkillz]

damn this is old shit, and i still cant do it so ill think its all cool you guys are old schoool

[nicko0]

bright colors and vivid patterns is an asthetic highly desired in most art forms. stick stacking brings that asthetic to boro like no other tech yet. wrap and rake and stick stack dont share the same piece if the market.

[menty666]

last post was in feb, how did this get bumped?

[Granger's Glass]

Doesn't it get bumped when someone votes?

[menty666]

hmm...maybe.

[chayes]

Yes its the new wrap and rake. Look at the prices keep going down.

[Meta Glass]

wait

theres a new wrap and rake?

[Frankie Hess]

It's been revived....huuuuhahahahahahahahaha

The only thing I've been wrappin and rakin are leaves!

But I think I caught Eush's case of wig wag itus. I'm tryin to shake it as we speek.......whether I like it or not.....

W/R will always be the W/R in my opinion.

[Dom]

Word raking is old school as far as any art goes, I even see it at the bakery, they wrap the cake in lines of frosting adn rake that shiet.

[Royal]

i rake then wrap, just my syle. then sometimes i reverse rake and and vertical wrap.

[mer]

Votes bump old threads.

[rabidgod]

grave digga

[rockstar glassworks]

Love these argument threads....

So in Paris in June we went to the Louvre for the first time. There was an exhibit on the Mele' people. A culture that flourished in the Sudan around roughly 100AD.
There were several examples of lampworked glass, 2000 year old lampworked glass.

Guess what most of the decoration was? Wrap and wrake..... I couldn't photograph the exhibit, but I got to take this shot from the catalogue out in the hallway.

http://i645.photobucket.com/albums/uu178/rockstarglass/35576_1497865043631_1144261688_31499226_7601082_n. jpg

[Headdi Retti's Glass Art Studio]

Wow!, Well that settles that , I guess acouple thousand years is about as old school as it gets. :chilling:

[frillcappa]

lol headi's^^^ yea, feathering and raking are not looked down upon in Furnace working, when i was into it, it was kind of a sick technique to learn! Its just so overdone in lamping that it became kinda a stigma that w/r's are poo

[kage]

so we're bumping 6 yr old threads?

anyhoo, egyptian core formed vessels have been around way longer then that, as early as 1500 BC if not longer. they also used camel dung at one point to wrap glass around the molded poo shape. then bury it under a fire to anneal. and remove the camel dung after. so yeah, true og wrap and rakes really are "poo"

[frillcappa]

so we're bumping 6 yr old threads?

anyhoo, egyptian core formed vessels have been around way longer then that, as early as 1500 BC if not longer. they also used camel dung at one point to wrap glass around the molded poo shape. then bury it under a fire to anneal. and remove the camel dung after. so yeah, true og wrap and rakes really are "poo"

Glad I bumped it now... i learned this...what are you the thread bumping monitor to make sure old threads stay down in the depths of nothing?

[kage]

Glad I bumped it now... i learned this...what are you the thread bumping monitor to make sure old threads stay down in the depths of nothing?

sure, whatever helps you sleep

[frillcappa]

sure, whatever helps you sleep

Hindu Kush

[ALIEN!]

so we're bumping 6 yr old threads?

anyhoo, egyptian core formed vessels have been around way longer then that, as early as 1500 BC if not longer. they also used camel dung at one point to wrap glass around the molded poo shape. then bury it under a fire to anneal. and remove the camel dung after. so yeah, true og wrap and rakes really are "poo"


I knew I'd been overthinking how to go about making me some molds. Imma go make some molds right now! :bouncy:

[kage]

^ make sure you use fresh stuff, then let it dry and harden.

[Slimy-E]

yo that's the shit

[mad alchemist]

i think pulling a stack on 50x5 is easier than making and io spoon. id imagine its just the same but a bit longer with 70x5 which is where im going next. i can pull down a 6 to 8 inch stack in 25 30 minutes where when i do i/o i tend to take my time and spend about 45 to and hour on it. with the stack i could pull off 15 to 20 full color or fade to clear spoons and crap em out spending 10 minutes each to shape them.

[Sketchball]

This thread is gold. Pure gold. It puts me in my place forsure - I had never even held a glass pipe when this thread started.

Based on past predictions compared to present actually, it is a wonder what we can conclude about our current predictions of the future of our industry. Where will be in another 7 years from now?

ooo I've got one

Dishes and dabbers are dead XP

[ROGUE]

Dishes and dabbers are dead XP

There ya go, perfect example of a fad

[Dan Kooper]

Drop dead thread.
But I think dishes Will stick. Dabbing will stay. I use my dish in my process of extraction. I put my mint xtract in it to purge. Dabbers. I think they will be collectible but does anyone use one? The $0.99 metal dental pick is where it's at.
Stick stacks are just played out. It will go out and comeback over and over. Just like SnapBack hats are. But if you want an easy way to make a piece solid color and no burnt colors it's great. I'm gonna make anothe stack now.
To the uneducated reversals are mind bEnding and impressive. But us glassblowers know we didn't draw those lines.

[ROGUE]

Drop dead thread.
But I think dishes Will stick. Dabbing will stay. I use my dish in my process of extraction. I put my mint xtract in it to purge. Dabbers. I think they will be collectible but does anyone use one? The $0.99 metal dental pick is where it's at.
Stick stacks are just played out. It will go out and comeback over and over. Just like SnapBack hats are. But if you want an easy way to make a piece solid color and no burnt colors it's great. I'm gonna make anothe stack now.
To the uneducated reversals are mind bEnding and impressive. But us glassblowers know we didn't draw those lines.

Man, here oil rig sales are dropping off big time. Oil use is at an all time high, but everybody is moving to gpen styles of smoking. I love glass and I love dishes and dabber, but your completely right the dental picks are way better and cheaper, just like those little dishes you can buy with the screw on caps.

[kage]

And "no you damn idiot you're crazy" takes the lead

[Mute]

Bumping this historically old thread because it's at least as good as what's been in the recent feed... :dieslaugh

[fUmEsNiFfEr]

Oh man! I just realized that I know where to find a camel!!!

Seriously though, I'm gonna make a stick stack right now!

[NiRTY]

Hey, remember this the first go round. Still stick staking... tho to be honest my prep sits around longer then this thread has :P

..anyone want some tubing pulled in 2005?

[Misfitman]

ill take it haha

[Misfitman]

:)