Thieves

[chayes]

When someone steals something whether it is a material posession or a persons idea it is still stealing.

I would like to give a personal thanks to the spy who came into my shop and nosed around in boxes that were closed,asked a million questions and got disturbed when i would not answer them. Not cool i know what you did. It is stealing maybe you don't see it that way but is. If i don't give you something please don't take it, its not yours.

I'm not gonna say any name, But i question the ethics of this blower and anyone assosiated with him. They call themselves artists thats a joke. Its like a pack of ego driven thieves. Nothing but theives. If you want something work hard for it don't take it because you think you deserve it.

And to anyone else reading this how would you like someone to come into your studio and take your intelectual property without your permission? To have someone take years of your life in minutes without your permission. Do you think its theft? I don't get the time i spent from my life back.

It all makes me just not even want to try anymore. Why work hard????????????????? Apparantley its just easier to take it.

[obscure_shadow]

meh... if you are a better glassblower it doesn't matter what they know. i mean you didn't originate 90% of what you know, even if you figured it out on your own. if you really work hard it'll get you ahead, who cares if other people cheat?

[nodice]

Yeh, we should all stop what we're doing because we weren't the first to invent fire, electricity, glass, reversals, or w/e. It seems like we're all thieves in your mind are we not? Why are we even chatting on the internet when we didn't invent computers, or w/e else is used to connect us to the internet? If you did't want to share your ideas, why'd you let these "thieves" in your shop? If I agree that they are thieves, am I steeling your ideas?

[chayes]

meh... if you are a better glassblower it doesn't matter what they know. i mean you didn't originate 90% of what you know, even if you figured it out on your own. if you really work hard it'll get you ahead, who cares if other people cheat?

First of all i did not go into someone elses studio and take ideas, Yeah i didn't originate everything i do but i didn't steal it i worked for it.
Second i don't get those years/money i spent back so yeah i care. I bet if you were in my shoes you'd care too.


It seems like we're all thieves in your mind are we not?
Your a thief if you come into my studio and open closed boxes and nose around and steal my ideas.

[chayes]

If you don't want to share your ideas, maybe you shouldn't let people in your shop.

I'm more than happy to share ideas and help people out but what i keep to myself should be respected not stolen. That's my point.

Oh and don't try to flip this thread all around.

[chayes]

If you did't want to share your ideas, why'd you let these "thieves" in your shop?

Dude the shit was in boxes. do you go to other peoples places and just look through their closed boxes? Wtf sorry i didn't put the shit in a box and close if for no reason.

[nodice]

Why do you feel like you need to hide stuff? Is it cause of the thieves? Maybe my ideas aren't cool enough to need to be hidden, but I don't hide stuff from people where I work. Maybe it's cause part of glass for me is knowing that I wasn't the first to invent most things, and that the things I know and expand upon help me, and if anyone wants to know and expand on what I know, it's really no big deal to me. On top of that, if anyone can look at something I've done, and then do it themselves without me saying/showing anything, the more power to them. You act like they're taking the market out from under you or something, when they probably won't even end up making anywhere near the same thing.

[chayes]

Is that a serious question? I can't believe you just asked that. I believe its pretty self explanitory why one would keep certain things to themselves. Wtf are trade secrets? Why not just go into one of the color companies and nose through there formulas. Duh

[nodice]

You're right. It would be terrible if color companies let their formulas out, cause then we might get better color quicker. It's good that you hord your ideas, so that people can't expand upon them and make magnificent art. What if thomas edison held onto the idea for the lightbulb and electricity? Where would we be? I'm just gonna pretend that the person who invented glass never let anyone know about it, and we're not having this conversation cause we are no longer glassworkers.

[chayes]

You act like they're taking the market out from under you or something, when they probably won't even end up making anywhere near the same thing.

Great you've made your point its ok to steal ideas from other blowers. Maybe some day you'll hold something dear and it'll be taken, then you can walk a mile in my shoes. Let me know how it turns out there guy.

[chayes]

You're right. It would be terrible if color companies let their formulas out, cause then we might get better color quicker. It's good that your hord your ideas, so that people can't expand upon them and make magnificent art. What if thomas edison held onto the idea for the lightbulb and electricity? Where would we be?

Dude you don't even know what your talking about. We would have worse colors and less innovation in the color process. Business 101.

[nodice]

.........

[chayes]

I'm just gonna pretend that the person who invented glass never let anyone know about it, and we're not having this conversation cause we are no longer glassworkers.

You should really quit going back and editing your posts. Quit trying to turn this around on me. I wish i could live in the imaginary dreamland you call reality it would be a lot nicer.

[nodice]

Man, just cause you don't wait til I'm done editting my posts to reply, that doesn't mean I' mtrying to turn things around on ya. Would you be happier if they took your torches/kilns and stuff? If I went into my shop, and someone was sitting there admiring my glass, I'd be happy. If I got into my shop and my stuff was gone, I'd be pissed. There's a slight difference in thievery between the two, at least in my mind. They could have walked into a shop that's selling your stuff and looked at the same stuff if you ever sold it. If you didn't(or even if you did), what's the frickin difference?

[PyroChixRock]

opening someone's CLOSED box is just wrong. I don't care what's it in, it's out of line. Then to turn around and copy what you stole with our eyes...I dunno, feels like stealing to me.

I dunno if it would upset me enough to make a post about it though. I guess I've just been on a sharing binge so long, I'd hope that like anything I share, I learn something from the person I shared it with someday. :)

[chayes]

Admiring something that you had in a closed box? Its not admiration its theivery.
don't get em confused. Would you come to my studio and open closed boxes and then start looking though it?

I'm under the impression you don't like me from your responses to previous threads. I detect the presence of resent. Don't let your dislike for me make you play the devils advocate if that's the case.

[chayes]

opening someone's CLOSED box is just wrong. I don't care what's it in, it's out of line. Then to turn around and copy what you stole with our eyes...I dunno, feels like stealing to me

Thank you.

[MadMan]

I think the opening boxes kinda thing is wrong, even at wall mart you don't start opening boxes, to see if you find what your looking for, or at least I don't. I can see that, what if he was waiting to daybew something, and it leaked like that. I know i am not tidy enough where at times things are out of place, and I dont have an army to check up on me all the time. So I could see a box being not where it should have been, but for someone to open it is kinda iffy, and perhaps a lack of respect for the mans shop.

just my 2cents

[nodice]

I hear ya, and agree about the boxes. I just don't get why some random people who you don't want to give info to were in your shop in the first place, or how they knew where to look to get the info they wanted, or why you weren't there, or w/e. How do you even know they took your ideas?

[chayes]

dude i sell glass supplies he came in under the guise of a friend wanting materials.


How do you even know they took your ideas? 2+2=4 am i correct?

[MadMan]

I hear ya, and agree about the boxes. I just don't get why some random people who you don't want to give info to were in your shop in the first place, or how they knew where to look to get the info they wanted, or why you weren't there, or w/e. How do you even know they took your ideas?



oh I dont know any of that, but I can see how the guy is mad, what you say is true, unless it is new thing all togeather

[nodice]

So you don't even know if he learned anything is what you're saying. I see. Was it a boxful of scrap points?

[chayes]

I don't need to say what was in the box. What if it was the skematics to a new torch i designed and a half built one. Seriously what does it matter what it was? And to clarify something what was in the box was not soley mine so they took from another as well.

[ALIEN!]

My take...I'da been snappin too if someone was rummaging around in my boxes, cabinets, underwear drawer etc. On the other hand, im sure you would have shown the world your idea, invention, edible pipe, whatever you got stashed eventually. Part of the reason we glassworkers push the envelope is to show the world what your made of, share your expression, etc. So, once that was done, others would start doing it and elaborate on it, such is the world and such is the progression of art in this medium. Of course if you had some 8 stage quadruple mix uranium powered glass torch that shoots lasers, is voice controlled and you were waiting for the patent on in the box, well, then thats another story. Anyway, hope you share whats in the box with us soon, sounds nifty.:flasher::eye:

***dammit I really wanted to use the patent pending smiley, it seems it was replaced***

[filthy god brother]

Do you feel that this guy came in with an agenda?

[chayes]

yup

[ALIEN!]

Oh shit, it wasn't Dick Cheney was it?!

[Frankie Hess]

:poke::digging::nta:

I'm havin dejavu like a muthafucka................

[bc]

Uh, I think this is more of a myspace blog than a glass thread........

[chayes]

that's a interesting take ya got on things brian

[CripSkillz]

Why didnt ya just whoop his ass and save us the drama,, would have been a much better story..

[chayes]

I'm just venting about something i don't think is right and I'm curious as to how others view things.

[p.j.]

sorry to hear someone pillaged your stuff,chris.

you are always helpful when we talk on the phone. you are just providing a service and probably would have shared some knowledge anyway.

you are always experimenting with new ideas and and i hope you still push the envelope.

later,
pj

[kebira]

I agree with Chris. If I was making and marketing full time (and I'm not) and my ability to stand out style-wise in a shop display was dependant on some direction I took with my glass, and somebody grabbed the idea from a closed area in my shop, I'd be a victim of intellectual property theft as well as any future sales based on my stuff having a different look. It seems to be a tough market with increased pressure from lands afar, let alone other blowers here. Yea, damn few "new" ways of working the glass are "discovered", but many stylized forms and designs that say "This is me" exist and most good blowers would feel downright creepy copying them as their own. Incorporating a new idea to morph your own idea is the way glassblowing evolves, but lets get those new sparks after the artist gets his work to the public eye. Only someone who's bled into some work can choose when other eyes view it. Then its public and the personal integrity of other artist come into play. We're all born with one of two baselines: integrity or skeevity. There's no hiding which one you've got.

JMHO

[Goldsmithy]

I'm new to this glass thing, but have been a metal smith for years. I share my knowledge freely to help others. BUT...I am very careful about who I let 'behind the counter' in my studio. I keep anyone from going through my 'stuff' by not giving them the opportunity to do so.

Perhaps you should examine your security precautions a little more.

[smutboy420]

Going threw your boxes is just whacked.

I don't care what any one says even if he dint steel any thing from the boxes could just mean he dint find any thing to steel.

I'd not only be Leary of the person that was snooping for stuff to steel. I'd tend to also have serious misgivings about any one that thinks that casein your stuff to see what can be stolen is cool. I would take that as condoning an attempted thieving. Or anyone that tries to belittle you for being pissed some one tried to go threw your stuff and see what they can steel.

I guarantee that who ever it was was also adding up in there head how much your worth to hit. There probably trying to see how much they can get for your torch , kiln, materials, Before they blow town and move on to the next freebie.

Sound to me like your were being cased for a later robbery.

It so rings a bell of a time when some one here got all made after taking bids on my torch and kiln. Then getting all pissed off at me for having cameras every were in and around my shop. Gee if they weren't sneaking around they would not off known about the cams. But Some how I was the bad guy when it thwarted the plan to rob me.

[glassdocnc]

There is a HUGE difference between voluntary sharing and the circumstance you described. I'm sorry this happened to you.

Just because he/she took some of your ideas does not mean that they can be executed in the way that you can.

Keep doing what you do and next time someone is nosing around your boxes say something like... "I wouldn't play with the (Anthrax/radioactive materials/whatever) without my biohazard suit..."

[Jeremy D.N.]

this thread is going no where.

chayes, sounds like you need to talk to your thief "in the guise of a friend," i think we all know about plagiarism, this just seems like a pissing contest.

i hope you solve your issue, maybe tell the guy to get out next time.

[Swampy]

Dood check your shop if they left hidden cameras, next thing you know you'll see yourself featured on Youtube making secret stuff with marital aids taped all over your body.

and check your phone/internet lines for tapping... you never know...

[SNYD]

I agree that someone looking through your boxes is bullshit, but I think people hold on to " ideas " way to much. There is the collective unconcouse and I have had numerous times in my life that I had an idea, started working on it, to then see it a week later somewhere else. So did I steal this "Idea" or did I just pull it out of the collective.

I also find it very interesting that in the free energy movement, a lot of inventors no longer try to copy right there work, they just publish it on the internt so that it can get out there and people can build there own free energy devise.
Just my .04
Peace
Nate

[kbinkster]

I'm sorry that happened to you, Chris.

Stealing intellectual property is stealing. There's even a whole area of law devoted to intellectual property. Why do you think that is? Well, because if intellectual property is not protected, and the innovators and inventors have no way to profit from their work, then what would be the incentive to push forward and innovate and invent more things? Creating for the sake of creating and never profiting from it only gets you so far - just as profiting but never sharing only gets you so far. There is a balance and it goes both ways.

Say you came up with a new design for something. You worked really hard figuring out the best way to get it to look the way it does and some of that involved maybe changing the way something is traditionally done. It took a lot of planning as well as trial and error to get it done and you have to do it the way you figured it out, because otherwise, it wouldn't look right or be structurally sound, whatever. O.K., so you put a lot of energy into this process and into the piece itself.

Now, say someone comes into your shop and makes copies of your notes, digs through your scraps to figure out the steps of your process and the materials you used, and the next thing you know, when you go to bring some finished product to your local shop to sell, that person's copy of your stuff is sitting on the shelf. The shop owner laughs at you because he just bought the same thing from the other guy for less money than you. Oh, the other guy can charge a lot less because he does not have to make up for the cost of research and development.

Now, if that happened to you every time you went to make something new, how long do you think it would take to just give up on it with a "what's the use?" attitude? Not long.

And as far as the attitude that it's o.k. to steal an idea because other people taking an idea and going forward with it is the path to innovation... the majority of people who cheat never innovate. They're too lazy. That's why they cheat in the first place. If they were so innovative, then they would be too busy with their own projects to go stealing someone else's ideas.

Oh, and just to be clear, you can't hold onto something forever, either. Otherwise, where's your incentive to improve upon what you invented? But, you should have some amount of time to be able to recoup your costs and make a profit (hopefully). It's only fair.

[bufbubba]

all i can say shouldnt this thread be by hops lol

[p.j.]

all i can say shouldnt this thread be by hops lol

if you are going to say that what about snodgrass or tory or bernie or blackie or clinton or darby or anyone after those names.

i think chris is talking about a certain technique that requires lamping and tools and he is using and selling to other clients, reworking someones shape is different than taking a tech tha someone has been working on for a couple years.

[nodice]

Hey smutt, I don't think many people on here condone stealing. My reaction was more cause I thought he was being paranoid, especially after reading this thread a while back. (http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22469) It's just weird to me how people in our industry are so secretive with their ideas. Where I work, people look through my cases when I'm not there, and I could care less as long as nothing's missing the next day. Obviously that isn't the case here, but maybe the people who looked at his stuff are more used to being around people like me? Maybe they really were casing the place for a later robbery, or maybe there was some kinda new tool in the box they wanted to copy, or whatever. I dunno, and I'd be pissed at people if they were trying to do that to me. If I didn't want this to happen again though, I'd take some precautions. This was my point.

If you had $1000000 in cash, would you put it in a box in your shop, invite some people who aren't trustworthy in, then leave them alone to do whatever they wanted?

[Udai Hussien]

Hey smutt, I don't think many people on here condone stealing. My reaction was more cause I thought he was being paranoid, especially after reading this thread a while back. (http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22469) It's just weird to me how people in our industry are so secretive with their ideas. Where I work, people look through my cases when I'm not there, and I could care less as long as nothing's missing the next day. Obviously that isn't the case here, but maybe the people who looked at his stuff are more used to being around people like me? Maybe they really were casing the place for a later robbery, or maybe there was some kinda new tool in the box they wanted to copy, or whatever. I dunno, and I'd be pissed at people if they were trying to do that to me. If I didn't want this to happen again though, I'd take some precautions. This was my point.

If you had $1000000 in cash, would you put it in a box in your shop, invite some people who aren't trustworthy in, then leave them alone to do whatever they wanted?
agreed, but it still sucks to work hard on something, to have someone else just snake your work for themselves. I think (personally) you should go balls out, and post ALL details, don't half ass it, and get us to assume what the problems is/are. Not that I really care about said issue. And no, i am not being a dick, playing devils advocate, dissin', nor any of the sort. I just truly don't care, nor does anyone give a fuck if I care or can or cannot help. Anyway back to something more pressing, like resident evil 5

[nodice]

Ya, and now that I think about it, if there weren't thieves, you could leave your million dollars in cash wherever you wanted.

[Greymatter Glass]

Stealing is wrong. Yes.

But you're not telling us what was stolen in even general terms, and I think there is a difference between someone seeing something artistic and using it to inform their work, and someone taking pictures of working equipment that's been heavily invested in.


A few things that stand out... if you had something you didn't want people to see, having it in an openly accessible box in a place where people who just happen to come into your studio can see/open it.... dude.... you HAVE to accept some responsibility.

If you'd said they went into a private office that is locked, opened a cabinet that is clearly marked, and then rummaged through info - shit I'd call the cops and go off on 'em while I wait. That's whack. that's no differnt than oppening a till and taking the cash.

If on the other hand you had some random box sitting next to some other stuff, and someone casually opened it, and saw something they liked and explored further.... that's just human nature.


FWIW I don't agree that looking is pure theft. _IF_ they have the capacity to recreate what they saw, then the act of doing so is the real theft. As long as all they have are some new ideas gained under sort of shady pretext, then you should try to let it go. If you see them duplicating whatever it is you feel they stole, then by all means let us know and we can drag them through the mud - but for now, since it's clearly not a big enough issue to name names, and apprently nothing's been done with the "stolen" information, your time would be better spent advancing these project further.


Also, just a note on prphan technology. There are MILLIONS of patents that are owned by small and large corporations alike that just sit in a bin, nothing is done with them. There comes a point in society where you have to expect that good ideas be acted upon or passed to someone willing to take that step. I know I don't have half the time I'd need for all my ideas, and so I'm happy to share them. If these boxes represent years old projects that got put on the back burner and eventually fell off because you're not doing anything with them then you have some what less of a valid point.

I admit the "Orphan Ideas" theory isn't wide spread, but I believe in it. If this is the case here, look into orphan technologies, see what you can learn from the great ideas of others who have shared.

[Galaxie Glass]

Is that a serious question? I can't believe you just asked that. I believe its pretty self explanitory why one would keep certain things to themselves. Wtf are trade secrets? Why not just go into one of the color companies and nose through there formulas. Duh




Knowledge is money and Chayes "You are right"...nuff said

[kbinkster]

The thing about patents is that sometimes, a company will buy someone's patent and shelve it because they know that the new technology would threaten their existing market share. It almost happened to Dyson. I think it was Hoover that wanted to buy him out.

There are a lot of very useful patents that have long expired, but whose ideas were never brought to the market.

[Acme Glassworks]

Stealing is stealing straight up, either materials or intellectual property its still stealing. I find it funny that there is folks out the there willing say that you keeping some things private is wrong. This is your business, your bread and butter and it need not be shared. When it is released to the public then its just that, public. Before that point it yours and nobody elses. As i said before i think it funny that people would say this is wrong but these are the same type of folks that would get their panties in a bunch if they found out some company in China was exporting pieces exactlly like they "invented" to the States.

[bc]

that's a interesting take ya got on things brian


Chris, this place use to be fun to visit an learn from. If everyone puts up threads that really are not to useful, well then this place turns into he said she said an frankly, I've wanted to leave this place many times for shit like this, an that's hard considering I pretty much learned everything from this place. All I'm asking is for more quality threads instead of what do you think? Your know no one would appreciate folks snooping around anyone's shop if they were ask not to. Duh.

On another note:

I've been to your shop many times an recall seeing many a Jag an Salt replicas...just sayin, is that stealin'?

[chayes]

I've been to your shop many times an recall seeing many a Jag an Salt replicas...just sayin, is that stealin'?

That's just giving me way too much credit. If something has a eye on it dosen't mean its salts style. Oh and last i checked being inspired by something is not stealing or copying. It looks like there are plenty of people who took salt lessons thats stuff looks like his more than mine ever will. If i make a black and white piece am i copying someone. Get real.

Your a funny guy.

[Icarus]

The simple answer to this would be to tape/lock your boxes shut, put them in a place where you feel they are secure, not allow people you don't trust access to them, and if someone is going through them and that makes you uncomfortable, tell that person to please stop and leave.

Complaining about it after the fact does nothing to change it. You need to be at least a little proactive here.

Unless of course they are holding you at gunpoint... which it really doesn't sound like they were.

[BlueLilyStudio]

aaaiiight....I am in the same boat as chris, I have several techniques that are my own way of doing things that everyone does on the torch. But with my own self taught style and tricks. If I was to invite someone into my shop they could decipher what I was doing from taking into account the tools and prep on my bench. Several of the glassblowers that I have tried to show my new technique to have told me specifically not to share with anyone. They said that if I did then everyone would do it and I'd be nothing after that. On the other hand I've only been blowing glass for roughly 3 years and I feel that I have a lot to learn and would love to trade my knowledge for more knowledge.

Specifically i am speaking of a way of making large scale pattern tubing which requires the use of specific tools and collars and supports. Several glassblowers that I don't have respect for have tried to steal or glean this info from me and I have been guarded about giving it away. Someday I would love to share how to do it with the world but just before I was ready to post it Glass Alchemy began selling striped tubing at outrageous prices and I thought to myself, wow this is worth waaay too much. The fact that Glass Alchemy refers to it as a brand new technique and doesn't give instructions on how to do it on their website means they are afraid of it being stolen. Do you go to GA's warehouse and begin going through their boxes? No. And Nobody should be going through yours unless you want them to.

F*ck the haters, most people I show still can't figure it out or even begin to have the balls to do it. I don't think I am better than anyone but if I have something that makes me special and different then I am going to guard that secret carefully until its time has come. So you don't worry about shit chris, yer the man and fuck the boys trying to steal your manhood.

[chayes]

I shouldn't have to tape or lock anything up. I shouldn't have to keep anything secret. If i choose not to share something that should be respected plain and simple. Like i've said before i'm happy to share information,i do quite often, but can't i at least have something i consider sacred?

[Icarus]

Yeah, thats fine. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you don't take any kind of preventative measures, it greatly hinders your right to complain (or more to the point, others ability to empathize).

[chayes]

kbinkter- you summed it up real well.

[kbinkster]

Yeah, if you are really serious about keeping something locked up, lock it up. BUT, it is reasonable to expect a closed box to stay closed. It doesn't make anyone less of a thief just because the stealing was easy.

[chayes]

Yeah, thats fine. There is nothing wrong with that. But if you don't take any kind of preventative measures, it greatly hinders your right to complain (or more to the point, others ability to empathize).

Putting it in the box should have been enough prevention. I nor anyone else should have to worry about people going through closed stuff in anyone's studio, home, business, car, summer home, what ever wherever there should be some kind of respect.

[Icarus]

I agree... but from the sounds of it, you sat there ant let them go through the boxes. Did you say anything to them at the time?

I'm not saying that it doesn't make them thieves, though my feelings on intellectual property run more towards an open source collaborative approach than a guarded secrets approach, but still, you saw it happening, right? Were you somehow rendered physically incapable of asking them to stop or telling them to get the hell out of your shop once you noticed that they were acting kind of sketchy.

I know, I know, you're just venting, and I'm just kind of being a dick. But seriously, it's like the old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[kbinkster]

I know, I know, you're just venting, and I'm just kind of being a dick. But seriously, it's like the old saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And don't forget, two wrongs don't make a right (but three lefts do).

[Icarus]

And don't forget, two wrongs don't make a right (but three lefts do).

Hehehe, took me a second. Rep points for levity.

[kbinkster]

Hehehe, took me a second. Rep points for levity.

I was hoping you'd get a chuckle out of that. Thanks for the rep.:)

[Dom]

Stealing does suck, but since you sell supplies and most people can come into your shop on that premise, wouldnt it be wise to keep your boxes full of secret ideas locked in a closet or seperate room or something.

[skip]

Quit whining and do something about it.

[Mac Maestro]

Inventing a technique is one thing. Inventing a product is a whole other ballgame.

I think people are confused by the vagueness of "what's in the box." (Although hazel may have nailed it. lol)

If you have designed, labored, 'trial and error'ed to develop a new product, I feel your pain. If it is a new tech or design, well, those pretty much get passed around so puff puff pass.

[nodice]

....On the other hand I've only been blowing glass for roughly 3 years and I feel that I have a lot to learn and would love to trade my knowledge for more knowledge.....

...F*ck the haters, most people I show still can't figure it out or even begin to have the balls to do it. I don't think I am better than anyone but if I have something that makes me special and different then I am going to guard that secret carefully until its time has come. So you don't worry about shit chris, yer the man and fuck the boys trying to steal your manhood.

Don't you think that's a little selfish? What if you died tomorrow? Would you not have wanted glassworking to have advanced because of you, or is this all about feeling special/making money? It would be funny if you were the guy who cured cancer, then before you felt like letting the secret out, you died. "Sucks for the world, but who cares I'm dead, fuck the haters".

[chayes]

Honestly it shouldn't matter what was in the box. If they weren't looking for something in particular they wouldn't be snooping. I have never had a friend or another lampworker pull this kind of crap snooping through stuff.

Fact is something was taken from me without my permission, People can make light of it all they want. Like i said before walk a mile in my shoes it aint fun. It has opened my eyes as to what kind of people surround me. I don't feel as though i should have to questions the motives of people, but it appears so.

It seems like a few people who have responded to this thread know exactly what i'm talking about and maybe they or a friend of theirs is gaining something from what was taken from me. So thieves go ahead and enjoy , party it up, impress your friends, talk about how much your dick grew , I hope they enjoy all the free time on their hands because they can't take the time to figure it out for themselves. It must be so much easier to let others do the dirty work right?

[chayes]

Don't you think that's a little selfish? What if you died tomorrow? Would you not have wanted glassworking to have advanced because of you, or is this all about feeling special/making money? It would be funny if you were the guy who cured cancer, then before you felt like letting the secret out, you died. "Sucks for the world, but who cares I'm dead, fuck the haters".

Do you have any clues about business? or are you just another crunchy pipemaker who is more worried about what benifits you? This is the real world where some people actually have there futures vested in what they do. There is a line between what is business and what is not. What is acceptable and what is not.

[nodice]

That comment was directed at blue, not your actual situation(even if it might be similar). Yes, I'm just some crunchy pipemaker, and appreciate the condecention. Now that we're playing that game though, what business school did you go to to learn so much? Is it the business school where they never heard of a safe, or a lock and key?

[skip]

Talk about how much your dick grew

well shit man you didnt say it was a penis enlarger until now. Damn that thing should of been under lock and key. now that the cats out of the bag Douge needs a ton of samples.



Nothing personal here CHayes, but seeing this has grown into a 4 plus page thread. I'll have some fun with it.

[chayes]

That comment was directed at blue, not your actual situation(even if it might be similar). Yes, I'm just some crunchy pipemaker, and appreciate the condecention.

For the record not all pipemakers are crunchy. just the crunchy ones are crunchy.

[chayes]

well shit man you didnt say it was a penis enlarger until now. Damn that thing should of been under lock and key. now that the cats out of the bag Douge needs a ton of samples.

That is funny but I'm sure to some it may actually be considered a penis enlarger.

[p.j.]

For the record not all pipemakers are crunchy. just the crunchy ones are crunchy.

or wookies..

[PyroChixRock]

Well you have some feedback, and this thread is going no where but downhill from here so I'm gonna close it. Good luck with this.