Vacuum stick stack

[ITIS]

If you say so............. I don't know a lot about how glass works, but I still vote water vapor............... I have seen it so many times in my own stacks it is not even funny. It took a while to convince myself too. however once I started pre-heating no more bad funk only the good funk. Of course it might be a coincidence and not a true causality, or maybe I really am as ignorant as I fear.............. To each his own I have seen the funk and I beat that funk (with a $10 toaster oven from the thrift store and some DIY improv). I pass on what I know about the funk and that is all I know...... good luck curing the funk. (maybe put some gold bond in there, or fast actin tinactin. That shit always kills the funk).

[BlueLilyStudio]

It's not water vapor causing the problem, it aint dirty tube, and it sure aint mcdonalds grease. Think about how glass actually works is all I'm gonna say.

sounds like you know something but are unwilling or unable to explain it... it is vapor from the condensation that forms after several times cutting the tube...I wipe it out and its clean every time, don't wipe it out and its there...

[B-Rye-oNeR]

There was literally oz s of water I poured out of the 70 mm tube after sealed it to a pc of 38 mm and cut it, It was kinda gross, so I believe this was the cause. I love that so many experienced cats are putting in comments on this tho.

[chayes]

If it's water vapor why will it do it on one rod in one pull and certain colors in another pull? How can it happen even with a preheated tube? If it's water how can the same exact thing happen in ribbon cane made with a press? It just doesn't do it to the same degree with ribbon cane as the tubing though, but it happens.

[B-Rye-oNeR]

I think I see what you are saying now, but this crap I got was covering all rods in a section in the middle of the pull like they were completely coated with it. I cleaned rods and tube well, but the tube was still warm when I cleaned it. (with water) I'll try to get some pics, the pull is still at dudes shop.

What you are talking about sounds like what you get when pcs of glass that are two different temps come together, it can leave that haze. Which I wouldn't rule out completely.

Do you ever use carriage burners when doing lathe stacks? I know you used a GTT in a vid you posted, that inspired me to try it on the lathe. THe heat of the carriage burner seemed much different than what I am used to, not sure if this could have played a part.

thanks

[BlueLilyStudio]

If it's water vapor why will it do it on one rod in one pull and certain colors in another pull?

that one rod, and the certain colors in another pull, are the dirty ones, or they have a textured surface that traps the skuzz, like periwinkle or moss.


How can it happen even with a preheated tube?

even though the water has evaporated small amounts of impurities are left behind in the glass surface...think about paint drying, if you get contaminants in the fluid that may not be visible when they are dissolved, once the water evaporates the contaminants are left behind and begin to build up on one another.


If it's water how can the same exact thing happen in ribbon cane made with a press? It just doesn't do it to the same degree with ribbon cane as the tubing though, but it happens.

dirty glass, clean it first.

[chayes]

I thought it was water for the longest time, I've thought it was dirty glass. If you eliminate these factors and it still happens well then what is it? Seriously don't just say water and dirt because they are an easy answer. Mcdonalds grease was an easy answer too, but it was wrong. I just had to stop eating greasy fries to figure that one out.

[ITIS]

I thought it was water for the longest time, I've thought it was dirty glass. If you eliminate these factors and it still happens well then what is it? Seriously don't just say water and dirt because they are an easy answer. Mcdonalds grease was an easy answer too, but it was wrong. I just had to stop eating greasy fries to figure that one out.

I agree 100%, It is always possible for multiple problems to exist. If you eliminate one (the water in this instance) and it still happens then there is obviously another issue. But the water is definitely an issue, maybe it is not the only one. It was a big one for me for a while. I may have spoken too brashly before. My apologies if I offended.

[mark206nj]

Well, I am back on the torch again after a year and a half break. Ok, it was a mandatory break. Had major nerve damage in my right hand. Lost 90% of sensory and 75% of motor. Yada, yada, yada........5 surgeries later and lots of physical therapy, I am able to spin glass again.

Made several spoons the first week and then made 4 medium sized bubblers in the 2nd and 3rd week. All of this with my old stand-by 25mm swiped with color and then swiped again with clear. Then I read THIS thread. Holy shit! I've always had tons of trouble with trapping air in my stickstacks. This sounds like a god send. I've got my old shop-vac set up with a couple reduction hoses to get me down to blowhose size. Drilled a few holes in the vac line to get air from the atmosphere. Got all my prep work done and am gonna try this tech today. I will most definately post pics of the set-up and final tube, as soon as possible. If this is as easy as everyone is sayin, I'll be a tube makin' fool from now on.

Peace,
Mark

[Julian]

That's nuts Mark, glad you're back in action!

[mark206nj]

Ok, so the 1st attempt was with 9.5mm that was covered with cut stringers and sleeved with 25mm heavy wall. When AMAZINGLY well. No air bubbles and yielded about 2 feet of 15 X 4 tube. The second attempt was not so good. Seems I didn't tack the color down enough. As I tried to seal the sleeve, half of the color rods broke free and slid out. I tried to get them back in, to no avail. Finished it up with half color and half nothing. Of course, the clear wall was very thin but the colored side was beautifull. Gonna give it another shot on friday.

[mark206nj]

It took me til yesterday to give this tech another shot. Was way too busy with my other 2 jobs. However, my second attempt (with larger diameter tubing) went very well. I should be able to take some pics of the tubing tomorrow and post the pics at that time.

It was amazing that 3 1/2 inches of color yielded about 6 feet of just about 18mm tubing with 5mm wall thickness. But then I started thinking about what I started with.... 50X5 sleeve, 7-8mm color rods and 25X4 inner tube. Thats somewhere in the 16mm area for wall thickness. Hense the 8 full minutes of torch time to get that thing soupy enough to pull down.

All in all, a GREAT tech. Thanks to all who posted. You are all gettin big time rep points.

I'm HOOKED!!!!!!

[mark206nj]

Here is the tubes I used to "try" to make. They are filled with air spaces and were done with just trying to marver the air out. Most of the air between the sleeve and color is gone but between the color and inner sleeve is, well, extremely poor.:bangHead:

[mark206nj]

Now here is the vac stacked tube. Absolutely no air, even walls.........and best of all, it took a hell of a lot less torch time:D

I am so stoked about this tech. I never thought I could have that much fun making colored tubing. It was always the laborious part of the process and the making of the actual art was the fun part. Now it's all fun. :bouncy:

Thank you all for posting this tech.

[STROKER]

mark i would say you got it down pretty nice.

much better looking than the non-vac stuff

[mark206nj]

Thanks, GWS. Yup, it's a permainant part of me now. Gonna do a few dozen of them this weekend. I'll have enough color to work for a long while.

[D kid]

That looks very very nice! "with an Italian voice" Dont forget you can always add stringers.

[mark206nj]

Yeah, D Kid. I've seen some of Eusheen's stuff. There are so many possibilities with this tech.

[Aaron Ellis]

Good to have you back Mark. Looks like you are having no problems getting reviving your skills. Nice looking disc and pull man.

And thanks everyone. I've never done a vac stack but gonna have to do some now ((-: I've read parts of this thread but never the whole thing. What a greatp thread. Thanks again everyone especialy Matt you the man.

[Lever2stackS]

This thread is a mass of knowledge thanks for all the info everybody here was my first go. I did one and it was so fun I went and did another one right after it.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/62479_519778044740106_854707238_n.jpg
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/295610_519778051406772_884064826_n.jpg

[nicko0]

so ive done tons of vac stacks. no issues.

this time the 50x5(simax) tube in the 70x9 bubbled all up on both sides of its surface as if it were dirty.

it is a brand new just opened tube.

one major difference in tech this time tho;

i did not pre kiln the section of glass that caused the bubbles

so im thinking all these other times i burned off the oily coating in the kiln before vacing it down.

so is it known that simax not pre kilned will cause little bubbles in a stack?

[funksizzle]

I'm just reading this, but I know from other threads for help on the bubbles, not simax coating question. You gotta be more specific as to the bubbles. Of course pictures are worth a 1000 words.

But the question to a simax question, I'll wait for others to chime in. Thanks for asking though, I'm eager to know too. I know with say china white, you kinda just heat it lightly with a low pressure flame, keep on flashing to get the coating off. Vs, working it in by heating to glow. So you dont need to anneal it to get the coating off. But thats china white. I dunno about simax with a coating.


Also, did you say you didnt preheat the outer section? Does that mean you preheated the inner section and rods?

If so, if you had preheated inner, but not outer, that could lead to inner being heated faster than outside. I think that colors heating up hot, and not flowing with equally hot outside might cause this. Just like beads, when you overheat the mandrel (inner), it can cause bubbles to the glass. Also, in beads, clear layer first with color over it on a mandrel, will overheat and cause bubbles because clear heats up faster than color. Just a thought. You may not have preheated the inner though, I justed wanted to ask you clarify to help you out and to learn myself when other peeps with vaccstack expertise answer.

Also, I'm not saying you did preheat inner, not preheat outer, but if you did that causes stress. It would also take longer to melt togethor I would imagine. If it were soft glass, it would break like that. Cant get too used to boro, or you might not remember what actually causes stress in glass.

[funksizzle]

Also, did you use the same colors, same flame settings, and work it in the same area of the flame?

Did it affect the whole length, or just in blotches or spots?

[nicko0]

same same same

simpler question. what do you do to prep your tubes before vac stacking?

wash them? in what. kiln them?

or are u successful with using them right out the box.

pls mention what brand your using, simax, kimble, shott

[Mr. Larry]

I use a microfiber cloth and 91 percent iso alcohol to clean the prep. I load the tube with gloves. My guess is dirt and oil. I warm it up in the kiln, but have seen others go in cold without problems. On a side note, there's only room for 1 mil rods with the dimensions you've given. I use Simax 70x5 and sleeve with 44.

[nicko0]

thx. did the peeps that go in cold run it through the kiln first and or wash it?

25x4 inner

50x5 outer

70x9 outer outer

[Mr. Larry]

I think they cleaned all of the prep and then used a Bunsen type flame on a lathe to get it pre heated. I like to get it all snug n prepped, and pre heat it to 1050, or 950 if I've got a lot of chrome sparkly colors going on. I've never tried to double sleeve (outer outer). Sounds interesting.

[nicko0]

k.

ill just clean it kiln it and hope for the best.

[funksizzle]

Just wondering, what would happen if either the inner or outer had a little moisture in it? Does anyone know what happens, or what would happen with a little moisture in tubing? Sometimes its hard to get out, and some days are different than others.

[nicko0]

maybe i should take a poll.

just frustrated to have success for years and then change one thing, that i was sure would be fine, and others apparently do, and it not work for me.

anyway. so i pulled the bubbly suff into spirals and horns. the multitude of tiny bubbles sparkle when stretched. called it bubble dichro: my buyer thought it was funny and bought it for extra.

i still wanna know others success/fail stories on cleaning,kilning,and the lack there of. brands