This is worrisome... (NSFW)

[menty666]

Have a look at the two videos I found on youtube regarding glass dillies.

Looks like standard fare, if not a little on the dull side for a video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udRYyLABQzA

But now check out the rest of the gang:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHy-4gBDV00



Now, I don't like to do the international hating. Frankly (price wars aside) I think the folks that should be pissed off too are actual artists in production countries that get a bad rap by association. But I have to wonder how well made this stuff is going to be. They invested in lathes though, maybe (hope?) they invested in decent annealing ovens?

[goldmanglass]

crazy...who knows, i hope not but maybe someday we will be sending them our glass?

maybe if this country started to worry about dominance in something other than its military we could be sure that wouldn't happen.

[J Howard]

maybe if this country started to worry about dominance in something other than its military we could be sure that wouldn't happen.


ding ding ding!

[Uriel]

Its prolly that cheap shit chinese soft boro too!

[JLF]

Eventually their quality will be fantastic.

[masterglaster]

Eventually their quality will be fantastic.

There was a time when "made in Japan" meant the quality was crap. Now it means the best available anywhere. It won't be long until the same applies to products made in China and India.

Idealism might be warm and comforting but realism is cold and harsh.

[Mecha]

There was a time when "made in Japan" meant the quality was crap.

Not true at all. That was simply propaganda. Just because ford and Chrysler tried desperately to disseminate this misinformation, does not mean that it was ever true.

[melter skelter]

sweeeet ventilation!!!!

[Rosentech]

Those working conditions looked a lot better than some of the sweat shops in Southern California I've been to!!!

[Big Jay]

That was a pretty sweet shop! IMO I still welcome the overseas competition as long as the import taxes paid make it an even playing field as far as cost to the retailer.

[masterglaster]

http://video.google.ca/videosearch?hl=en&source=hp&q=chinese%20glass%20factories&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#q=blowing+glass+in+china&hl=en&view=2&emb=0&qvid=blowing+glass+in+china&vid=3263195844226511115

[chayes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omxnglIjZJs

My question is if china is hurting a country with a heritage that goes back to the beginning of the whole glass scene then what does that really say? I think it would be a great tragedy to see such a tradition lost to corporate greed. But then again will this same thing happen to the american pipe scene? eventually they will know all we know and they have the money/equipment/cheaplabor. Information+money+cheap labor = ???????

Glass is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If the public is uneducated about the glass they are buying via shady shop owner looking for fast bucks or just lack of knowledge, then how do they tell the difference between a very well put together piece and just some stuff slapped together in a factory? How does the value of a nice piece differ from a crappy piece if they look similar?
Will new people continue to pick up the torch in years to come or will it slowly fade away into nothing only leaving factories, and true die hard blowers? In the future will the transition from hobbyist to occupation be so hard that few will make the leap?

If that is the future, all i can say is i am fortunate to have found glass when i did and not years later.

I don't know i'm just rambling.

[Aussie]

the electronic translator in the second vid menty posted is a cracker!!!

[masterglaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omxnglIjZJs

My question is if china is hurting a country with a heritage that goes back to the beginning of the whole glass scene then what does that really say? I think it would be a great tragedy to see such a tradition lost to corporate greed. But then again will this same thing happen to the american pipe scene? eventually they will know all we know and they have the money/equipment/cheaplabor. Information+money+cheap labor = ???????

Glass is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If the public is uneducated about the glass they are buying via shady shop owner looking for fast bucks or just lack of knowledge, then how do they tell the difference between a very well put together piece and just some stuff slapped together in a factory? How does the value of a nice piece differ from a crappy piece if they look similar?
Will new people continue to pick up the torch in years to come or will it slowly fade away into nothing only leaving factories, and true die hard blowers? In the future will the transition from hobbyist to occupation be so hard that few will make the leap?

If that is the future, all i can say is i am fortunate to have found glass when i did and not years later.

I don't know i'm just rambling.

Information + money + cheap labor = serious competition.
Information + creative talent + acquired skill = much more serious competition.

I think not only will people continue to pick up a torch to work glass in years to come, but I think the best work to ever be done in glass is yet to come. The best thing that could ever happen to the advancement of glass art is the elimination of the protected guilds. If it wasn't for a few traitorous Italians willing to defy their guilds, many Americans probably wouldn't be working in glass.

[skip]

and Dennis knows what he's talking about too boy. This guys is a wealth a knowledge. God bless canada for blessing us with his commentary.

[Swampy]

I agree with you Skip.

Also that in this instance what the man says is stating the obvious but it's still absolutely correct.

[dorkeedude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omxnglIjZJs

My question is if china is hurting a country with a heritage that goes back to the beginning of the whole glass scene then what does that really say? I think it would be a great tragedy to see such a tradition lost to corporate greed. But then again will this same thing happen to the american pipe scene? eventually they will know all we know and they have the money/equipment/cheaplabor. Information+money+cheap labor = ???????

Glass is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If the public is uneducated about the glass they are buying via shady shop owner looking for fast bucks or just lack of knowledge, then how do they tell the difference between a very well put together piece and just some stuff slapped together in a factory? How does the value of a nice piece differ from a crappy piece if they look similar?
Will new people continue to pick up the torch in years to come or will it slowly fade away into nothing only leaving factories, and true die hard blowers? In the future will the transition from hobbyist to occupation be so hard that few will make the leap?

If that is the future, all i can say is i am fortunate to have found glass when i did and not years later.

I don't know i'm just rambling.

That is a good video! I agree with your opinion completly!! And I am also glad to have found glass when I did!

Too Master Glaster also see were you are coming from with your response too Chayes post that I didn't see tell after I posted my response.

[chayes]

Information + money + cheap labor = serious competition.
Information + creative talent + acquired skill = much more serious competition.

I think not only will people continue to pick up a torch to work glass in years to come, but I think the best work to ever be done in glass is yet to come. The best thing that could ever happen to the advancement of glass art is the elimination of the protected guilds. If it wasn't

Much more serious competition-$$$$-accounts lost to foreign interest=???????

People will continue to pick up the torch, but will only the well funded survive? When i started it was much easier to get paid to learn. Where would my work have gone if shops had said they'd rather buy better cheap foreign stuff? How would i have funded my learning without sales from the things i made? I am about the glass not the dollar, a corporation is about the dollar not the glass. And they take the money that could fund many glassblowers, which in turn would boost the glass movement not stifle it had (artists) glassblowers had that money. What kind of world would that be?
Glassblowers supply the creativity not a company. I can't speak for everyone but i think the dude working outta of there small home studio benefits the glass scene more than some sweatshop that most likely took the ideas they sell. Any one ever seen someone at a trade show gobbling up pieces to take back to a factory to be reproduced? I've seen company's take ideas and that is a fact.

I believe in glassblowers having the ability in the future to continue feeding there families.I believe in a future artist making it because they could start out making simple prodo and advancing there skills. Maybe what your stating is probably true given the glassblower doesn't have bills to pay or someone else pays the bills for em. So yes the art will continue to progress but for who? I guess the guy who works slinging burgers could have been the best glass artist the world had ever seen. Too bad he's flipping burgers.

Again I'm just rambling.

[Slimy-E]

the shops round here only want to sell american, both the local ones were opend by glass blowers, but what i been hearing when i bring stuff into them is that the customers have started asking where it was made. they ask if they got anything local. that may be a general trend among informed consumers. customers hold all the power- not that store owners cant lie but.

[menty666]

the shops round here only want to sell american, both the local ones were opend by glass blowers, but what i been hearing when i bring stuff into them is that the customers have started asking where it was made. they ask if they got anything local. that may be a general trend among informed consumers. customers hold all the power- not that store owners cant lie but.

I hate to sound like a sermon but....

As a selling point, locally made means if there's a problem, it's more likely to be repairable rather than completely replaced.

I get people asking me all the time if I can do repairs on dear aunt sally's old lamp she left to them upon her untimely death, or this piece of murano glass they brought back from their trip to murano and absolutely loved so much they just had to buy it while in murano, but it chipped...can I repair it?

In all those cases I tell them quite honestly that no, it's not a good idea to attempt the repair because a) I don't know what was used in it so whatever I have may be incompatible and b) most of what they're asking for repairs on is softer glass and very likely to just shatter on the table even if I do give it a good soak.

But I do tell them that if one of my pieces fails for some reason, feel free to call that number on the card and I'll either repair it or replace it for free up to a year if it was a defect in the craftsmanship.

I tell them I can do that and they can take advantage of that because they know the artist, and the artist can tell them exactly what glasses were used in that piece.

I point out that that level of workmanship is worth more than the price of the piece.

Or rather I would, if they weren't so busy telling their friends they can get "those" for cheaper at the walmarts.

I do my best, when I make pendants, not to do the same old same old and I still get people who walk up to my table and have the audacity, have the nerve, have the lack of common decency to point to something one of a kind and say to my face, "oh I saw those online". To which I most often respond, 'ma'am, I certainly hope you did not, because that would mean they had stolen my design'. While you would hope the look on their face would be one of shame, embarrassment, or even a twinge of remorse, more often than not it's disdain or shock. More often than not it's more a look of "I can't believe you would say that to a customer!" but the truth be told, she isn't going to be my customer. She'll be the one down the road paying for that Murano look alike dichro pendant on the clearance table for 1.98. And the next year when she sees you at your table, if she sees you at your table because you had the fortitude to stick to your craft for yet another year, she will be the one asking you to fix the chipped Murano glass pendant, and you will happily tell her no ma'am, no I cannot.

Ugh...think I'm a grumpy monkey tonight. Sorry for the rant.

[ShepherdCreations]

I hear ya, Menty! :)

Chris, don't worry about it. What's going to happen is already in the works, and all we can do is try to educate folks as we go along and always try to stay one step ahead (at least one!) skill-wise from the imports. You're pretty safe on that :)

If nothing else, it will push us to further heights of creativity, crazy stuff that cannot be mass-produced profitably... I'm sure we all have our favorite designs that take waaay too long for what we can get for them but we do them anyway because they are spectacular when finished, right? Or maybe you guys can get what they're worth, sometimes I settle ;)
Well, off to make some more stuff, got a 3-day show starting tomorrow!

[CripSkillz]

just dont make prodo.. ... thats my plan...

[gmkcpa]

The chinese had/have a big problem with industrial pollution, but they came up with a solution. Hear about the houses in south Florida that people can no longer live in? Chinese drywall-it gives off toxic chemicals that corrode pipes, ruin wiring, and make people sick. With my Office Depot order I got a free 'nylon' shoulder bag that I had to throw out because the chemical odor would not go away. The tag said 'Made in China'. I got a car mat for my SUV on the auto parts aftermarket that was made in China. The odor was so bad I threw it over a fence for a few weeks. The odor did not dissipate at all! That got thrown out. Chili's restaurant was giving away cheap bead necklaces. I asked for three. Before we got home a chemical odor got to us. It was the beads. (Made in China) But they were so bright and shiny that we hung them outside from the branches of some bushes for decoration. One month later they totally lost their pretty shine, but the odor was still just as strong as when we got them. I guess maybe they are adding their pollutants to their products bound for the US. I wonder about chinese glass...

[masterglaster]

Much more serious competition-$$$$-accounts lost to foreign interest=???????

People will continue to pick up the torch, but will only the well funded survive? When i started it was much easier to get paid to learn. Where would my work have gone if shops had said they'd rather buy better cheap foreign stuff? How would i have funded my learning without sales from the things i made? I am about the glass not the dollar, a corporation is about the dollar not the glass. And they take the money that could fund many glassblowers, which in turn would boost the glass movement not stifle it had (artists) glassblowers had that money. What kind of world would that be?
Glassblowers supply the creativity not a company. I can't speak for everyone but i think the dude working outta of there small home studio benefits the glass scene more than some sweatshop that most likely took the ideas they sell. Any one ever seen someone at a trade show gobbling up pieces to take back to a factory to be reproduced? I've seen company's take ideas and that is a fact.

I believe in glassblowers having the ability in the future to continue feeding there families.I believe in a future artist making it because they could start out making simple prodo and advancing there skills. Maybe what your stating is probably true given the glassblower doesn't have bills to pay or someone else pays the bills for em. So yes the art will continue to progress but for who? I guess the guy who works slinging burgers could have been the best glass artist the world had ever seen. Too bad he's flipping burgers.

Again I'm just rambling.

Compare a glass artist to a performing artist (like a musician or an actor).

Should those learning their craft expect to make a reasonable living at it, or, should they expect to have to do other work for income until their skill level rises to where they can earn a living from their craft?

Should glass workers expect to start off earning a reasonable wage, or, like performing artists, should they expect to spend considerable time working outrageously cheap until they establish a reputation?

Should local glassworkers be protected from outside competition, or, should they expect to fight to compete with all others everywhere? If you expect to protect against competition from other countries, how long until you expect to protect against competition from other states - then other communities?

What's wrong with working flipping burgers to pay the bills while you build skills and reputation?

[masterglaster]

I hear ya, Menty! :)

Chris, don't worry about it. What's going to happen is already in the works, and all we can do is try to educate folks as we go along and always try to stay one step ahead (at least one!) skill-wise from the imports. You're pretty safe on that :)

If nothing else, it will push us to further heights of creativity, crazy stuff that cannot be mass-produced profitably... I'm sure we all have our favorite designs that take waaay too long for what we can get for them but we do them anyway because they are spectacular when finished, right? Or maybe you guys can get what they're worth, sometimes I settle ;)
Well, off to make some more stuff, got a 3-day show starting tomorrow!

Create. Innovate. The design is more important then the work. The architect is more important then the builder. The composer is more important then the performer. If you invent something new, you have no competition.

[ALIEN!]

start telling all your customers that the chinese glass contains lead, posing a serious risk of lawsuit for anyone selling it, and that that's why you dont use any chinese materials in your work (not to mention the incompatibility and cracking issues due to the lead content)

Fuck China. They cheat all day long. Fight fire with fire.

[CripSkillz]

just make cooler shit.. I still flip burgers.. Oh well .. gotta do what ya gotta do..

[masterglaster]

start telling all your customers that the chinese glass contains lead, posing a serious risk of lawsuit for anyone selling it, and that that's why you dont use any chinese materials in your work (not to mention the incompatibility and cracking issues due to the lead content)

Fuck China. They cheat all day long. Fight fire with fire.

Cut crystal contains lead. That doesn't seem to discourage anybody from buying it and using it for food and beverage.

[gmkcpa]

Many years ago I bought a Waterford crystal decanter to keep my booze in 'cause I thought it would be cool, but then I learned that the lead leaches out into the liquor and makes it downright dangerous to drink. And I've told everyone else who uses crystal decanters - so yeah, the knowledge discouraged me from using cut crystal. Sometimes, knowledge is a powerful thing.

[menty666]

Many years ago I bought a Waterford crystal decanter to keep my booze in 'cause I thought it would be cool, but then I learned that the lead leaches out into the liquor and makes it downright dangerous to drink. And I've told everyone else who uses crystal decanters - so yeah, the knowledge discouraged me from using cut crystal. Sometimes, knowledge is a powerful thing.


I think that means you just need to drink it faster before it becomes toxic. :D

[chayes]

Compare a glass artist to a performing artist (like a musician or an actor).

Should those learning their craft expect to make a reasonable living at it, or, should they expect to have to do other work for income until their skill level rises to where they can earn a living from their craft?

Should glass workers expect to start off earning a reasonable wage, or, like performing artists, should they expect to spend considerable time working outrageously cheap until they establish a reputation?

Should local glassworkers be protected from outside competition, or, should they expect to fight to compete with all others everywhere? If you expect to protect against competition from other countries, how long until you expect to protect against competition from other states - then other communities?

What's wrong with working flipping burgers to pay the bills while you build skills and reputation?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh33bGAxl58
:pimp: