Seriously.. is anyone making $$ anymore?

[mark1905]

Sooooo.. ok.

I started lampworking in 95.. moved away from the states and had a shop in an undisclosed tropical paradise from 99-04. Came back to the states, got involved in other stuff. Haven't been in the stateside "scene" since.. what.. 99?

So now I get some things together and decide to mess around again. I start looking at the financial aspects of it and WHAT? You can seriously buy multi weld pieces for $15 online bulk? Basic pieces for under $5???

Tell me.. is anyone making any kind of living off of doing this anymore? How? With the material and electric expenses you can't be making much more than minimum wage..?

Not to pull a "when I was your age.." but seriously.. I wasn't rolling out of bed for less than $40 an hour after expenses last time I checked.

Kind of dumbfounded. Unreal what has happened to this industry..

[Lub]

wish i could make more. i'm only 19 man, i can't say i know much other then what i've heard from some old timers, but yes, blame china.

[ALIEN!]

China AND roobs that buy from them AND roobs that sell their work for way less than its worth driving down the value of everything. Lotta morons out there...

[skip]

You gotta find a niche more so that ever before.

[bzglass]

if you are good at what you do, you can make money at whatever you do. Especially if what your good at is making money.

[jr23]

word

[Blade]

if you are good at what you do, you can make money at whatever you do. Especially if what your good at is making money.

quote of the day

[AcidFly]

Hi,
A question for you, i heard others blame china also but no one says or shows what china is making that is taking all the money from us ?

just was wondering what they were making that's got the glass community all up in arms ?

thx
AcidFly

[phab]

Hi,
A question for you, i heard others blame china also but no one says or shows what china is making that is taking all the money from us ?

just was wondering what they were making that's got the glass community all up in arms ?

thx
AcidFly

:bangHead:

[mark1905]

Hi,
A question for you, i heard others blame china also but no one says or shows what china is making that is taking all the money from us ?

just was wondering what they were making that's got the glass community all up in arms ?

thx
AcidFly

I'm guessing cheap pipes?


Not but seriously you guys.. what is everyone getting for basic but decent quality spoon pipes these days? Basic but quality internal stem hammer or sidecar bubblers? Not inside out.. just thick quality basic blown stuff.

[themoch]

Hi,
A question for you, i heard others blame china also but no one says or shows what china is making that is taking all the money from us ?

just was wondering what they were making that's got the glass community all up in arms ?

thx
AcidFly

all you have to do is google

http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/CN-suppliers/Glass-Smoking-Pipe.html

http://buy.ecplaza.net/search/1s1nf20sell/glass_smoking_pipes.html

[WORLD FAMOUS]

The wrap and rake is slowly making a comeback...some of us are just waiting it out.

[Mr. Whale dick]

i just banged out 25 last night....

[skip]

damn hasslenuts we are talking glass here not spankin it....

[kage]

i make money. not living the dream or anything, but i can't complain.

out of any normal 7 day week i work about 50-60 hrs.
about 3 days a week i turn into a fume spoon machine. thick and clean. 10pc per hour avg. no distractions, minimal breaks, get in the zone and knock it out.

thats not all i do, by any means. its not fun either, but they are my money makers for now.
trust me that is not the lifestyle i was looking for when i started, but i like money and kids gotta eat.

[byron3]

No, no one is making money, sell your equipment and get out while you still can......

[masterglaster]

The glass artisans generating the best incomes are usually those that are intermixing disciplines rather then relying on just one. The best glass art is often work that incorporates fusing, slumping, casting, and etching along with torching.

[Mecha]

The glass artisans generating the best incomes are usually those that are intermixing disciplines rather then relying on just one. The best glass art is often work that incorporates fusing, slumping, casting, and etching along with torching.

What is the first statement based on? Do you have access to the financial records of various artists?

The second statement is purely subjective. Thanks though.

[knaz]

Seems to me the people making the cash are the distro and glass company owners. They easily pull in six figures or more (well the big dogs), but its like that in any industry.

[mark1905]

i make money. not living the dream or anything, but i can't complain.

out of any normal 7 day week i work about 50-60 hrs.
about 3 days a week i turn into a fume spoon machine. thick and clean. 10pc per hour avg. no distractions, minimal breaks, get in the zone and knock it out.

thats not all i do, by any means. its not fun either, but they are my money makers for now.
trust me that is not the lifestyle i was looking for when i started, but i like money and kids gotta eat.


How much are you getting for your simple fume spoons?

[mark1905]

all you have to do is google

http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/CN-suppliers/Glass-Smoking-Pipe.html

http://buy.ecplaza.net/search/1s1nf20sell/glass_smoking_pipes.html


Are shops really buying from Chinese suppliers on a regular basis? I mean.. I'm a business owner of an entirely different industry, and as a rule I don't deal with foreign suppliers because of beyond the obvious of keeping money in our own economy is the way, but the unreliability and scam factors.

[chayes]

i get 5$ for a simple fume spoon with a color wrap on the bowl. 8$ for a wrap and rake.

[chayes]

Are shops really buying from Chinese suppliers on a regular basis?
shops and gas stations buy the shit outta it. 300 bucks will get ya 100 spoons outta some catalogs.

[skip]

Originally Posted by masterglaster View Post
The glass artisans generating the best incomes are usually those that are intermixing disciplines rather then relying on just one. The best glass art is often work that incorporates fusing, slumping, casting, and etching along with torching.
What is the first statement based on? Do you have access to the financial records of various artists?

The second statement is purely subjective. Thanks though.
Reply With Quote

Dennis Brady doesn't need financial records. He is a wealth of opinion with nothing to back it up.

[Mecha]

Dennis Brady doesn't need financial records. He is a wealth of opinion with nothing to back it up.

He's also quite the political prognosticator. So multifaceted.....

[phab]

The glass artisans generating the best incomes are usually those that are intermixing disciplines rather then relying on just one. The best glass art is often work that incorporates fusing, slumping, casting, and etching along with torching.


Dennis Brady doesn't need financial records. He is a wealth of opinion with nothing to back it up.


...ah ha, yeah i thought that had a familiar funny smell to it. i hope somebody lets RAM know he needs to incorporate fusing, slumping, casting, and etching so he can make something other than those blah-say 10K pieces. maybe he could buy his material from dennis on his way to fame and fortune in fusing, slumping, casting, and etching.

and if that doesnt make a guy enough money dennis can always teach em how to sing show tunes.

[kage]

the million $ question \/\/\/ :D


How much are you getting for your simple fume spoons?

but seriously, i get paid in nickels and there are too many to count.

[SNYD]

Are shops really buying from Chinese suppliers on a regular basis? I mean.. I'm a business owner of an entirely different industry, and as a rule I don't deal with foreign suppliers because of beyond the obvious of keeping money in our own economy is the way, but the unreliability and scam factors.

There are guys that drive around in minivans selling case loads of it to shops, so to shops who have no heart its just like artists that drive around selling case loads, only its an 1/8 of the cost, and it breaks while sitting in there cases.

[Tsnider]

yeah you can tell a china piece from a distance too. i bet each person makes one design all week long. china is taking over everything atm. its sad that they are predicted to be the next super power. the us is currently viewed by other countries as a declining country. from what i read at least

[goldmanglass]

Just a suggestion, go around to all the shops in the area and see whats up. if some of them only buy US glass, which is the case in many shops, then just sell to them. if some shops sell imports, check out what they got and try to fill the other areas of the market.

I know this has been said in other threads about imports, but the fact that you can advertise your glass as American made, or give em a story or something about the piece, helps a lot! who wants to make wrap and rake spoons anyway...This may sound harsh, but if your work doenst stand way the fuk out from a 10 year old chinese kids pipe, maybe glass isnt the right game for you.

[mark1905]

This may sound harsh, but if your work doenst stand way the fuk out from a 10 year old chinese kids pipe, maybe glass isnt the right game for you.


True, but there is a point at where creativity/complexity of design meets the curve of efficiency with regards to time and materials for optimum profit. We all know how it goes. If it takes me an hour to make a piece that I get $50 for or I make 10 cheesy $10 spoons in an hour, guess where my energy is going to go. We alllll know that story..

Given that yeah, I do only work heavy wall and condense the crap out of my pieces to keep 'em thick.. I can say that while prodos may be prodos, at least they are pretty damn high quality prodos.

Anyway, thanks for the input everyone. I'll catch you all around.. it's good to be back. If any of you are in the Orlando, FL area I'd love to share info and resources.

[Logan]

Im fairly new at the game but I havent found import glass to be much of a barrier to selling my work at a good price. Out of the 20 or so stores I sell to most of them either dont carry any imports at all, or if they do its a very small amount that is clearly separated from american made product. There are definitely stores out there that carry nothing but import crap but its pretty easy to just avoid those shops. I would be more concerned about an economic recession than chinese/india import glass. Most customers know the difference and would rather buy quality american made glass as long as they can afford to do so.

[The Lorax]

work harder?

[mark1905]

work harder?

Nope. Smarter, not harder. ;)

[The Lorax]

little bit o' both... theres defiantly plenty of opportunities imo though... question is, how far are you willing to push yourself?

[Shatner]

I don't really sell to shops anymore. I wear a few of the pendants I've made and alway cary a case of glass, whether it be pipes, jewelry or booth pretty much everywhere I go. Especially if it's to someones house or a party. Word of mouth goes a long way if you make quality stuff that stands out from the rest. Friends and family will always point people your way. But I'm in a big city with not many pipers.

[Beck]

Diversification is the key, I sell my line of production work (10 years now) to head shops (around 20 different styles priced between $8-$40 wholesale) and also have a line of crafty shit like beads, jars, finished jewelry, etc. When the shops ain't buyin' (business ebbs and flows) I tap the craft market. The craft market is much more saturated with cheap imports, so it's a harder one to operate in profitably. I also have an etsy store and website for my craft stuff (retail prices=higher profit) which doesn't provide much $ but requires little time or effort to maintain.
It's important to keep a tight rein on your production costs. If you can drop the cash or combine resources with other blowers to buy raw glass in bulk (pallets of tubing/rod, 30-50 lbs of color per order) you can cut your cost per piece by a lot, raising your profit margin and helping you stay competitive. I NEVER have and never will buy chinese made raw glass (possibly to my detriment, gotta have some standards). Even though it's dirt cheap--it's produced by slave labor, it's full of sulfur(or something that makes fuming turn yellow) and god knows what else. A few supply companies will work with you on price per pound if you promise to be loyal to them. Owning your own oxy tanks cuts down on rental fees, again lowering production cost. I also notice some folks use huge/gas-hogging suv torches to do production work; imho it doesn't make the process go any faster, just raises your cost. A cheap and efficient Nortel torch may not be as sexy as a GTT mega-burner, but it gets the job done just fine without wasting gas. Every penny counts.
After the operation "pipe dream" crap a few years back I noticed that the online sites selling cheapass schwag receeded somewhat (the Crush), they're back in full force now, unfortunately. I think that some blowers gave up or fell to the pressure from the import invasion during that period as well--opening things up slightly for the ones who hung on. What you're thinking about doing, making 3-4" fumed spoons is going to put you in direct competition with the bulk of the chinese and indian shit that is available right now. No amount of hustling or cost control is gonna make it possible for an American producer to compete with $2 spoons.
Finally, I've been lucky/hustled my ass off/ate shit more than I care to remember in pursuit of culitvating lasting relationships with buyers for what I call "boutique shops". They are feeling pressure from gas station schwag merchants just as we do and are looking for ways to distinguish themselves in order to stay afloat. I'm pleased and proud of them for not succumbing to the urge to join the race to the bottom. They're marketing their shops as sources of quality, non-import, locally produced glass--which seems to be helping to educate customers about what they're buying.
Overall, I still make an average of $40 an hour after cost--more than I can in any other line of work that I'm qualified for. Don't think that I could ever go back to working with/for assholes as a wage slave--having a predictably consistent income isn't worth the soul-sucking monotony. Choosing this vocation has been the most challenging and rewarding thing I've ever done. The learning curve is steep, the wear and tear on your body is debilitating, and the potential for ruin is always present. I must be a masochist to love it so...

[jello]

Again.... Nomad!, he got so fed up with the asains "bitting his style" he gave up blowing...
I want to see as many imports as I can, only makes my shit all that better. And I still get above average price for my prodo... So I guess don make prodo that looks like imports! It's that easy. And if you do have to make imports make sure you put Nomad's sig on it, cause you all know how upset the little fella gets

[Greymatter Glass]

Seems to me the people making the cash are the distro and glass company owners. They easily pull in six figures or more (well the big dogs), but its like that in any industry.

Sweet, let me know when my check is in the mail.

[MUPH]

Hustle real hard

[ALIEN!]

I make enough to resupply, gas up, and maybe pay my rent. Armed robbery and muggings put the food on the table. You'd be surprised how much money you can find in the pockets of a china glass pipe distributor. Hell, last time there was enough there, I took the family out to Red Lobster.

[mark1905]

I make enough to resupply, gas up, and maybe pay my rent. Armed robbery and muggings put the food on the table. You'd be surprised how much money you can find in the pockets of a china glass pipe distributor. Hell, last time there was enough there, I took the family out to Red Lobster.

Working how many hours? What's your standard output and how much are you getting for them?

[The Lorax]

^ theres your problem mark.

it's not about hours, imo... its 24/7


theres a quote from Mer around here.... "its not just a job, its a life style" or something of that sort... hit the nail on the head imo.

80%-95% of my day revolves around glass.... i think thats what it takes

[ALIEN!]

I put in 8 hours a day, sometimes more if Im amped up about getting an order out quickstyle. I work at least 6 days a week. The prices around here are fucked up, lots of china, even in the "nicest" shops. My biggest seller is my frit spoons, but I do alot of other nicer stuff, the only w/r I do is sherlocks. Im just aching to open a store of my own, but hell If I can afford to save that kind of money doing what Im doing. I really need to get out there and find customers that are willing to pay straight prices. I also really need to fix up my car and sell it so I can get a van or something I can haul K tanks in. Im getting 154's filled for $19.96 right now, and that certainly makes a dent in the wallet.

Output varies with what I have on order. I can do at least 150 frit spoons/ onies in a week, but at $8.00 a piece, its not cutting it.

[ALIEN!]

^ theres your problem mark.

it's not about hours, imo... its 24/7


theres a quote from Mer around here.... "its not just a job, its a life style" or something of that sort... hit the nail on the head imo.

80%-95% of my day revolves around glass.... i think thats what it takes

Yep, you might work 40 hours at the torch, but then there's the ordering of supplies, dealing with customers, paperwork if you have a business and do your own, constant learning, LOTS OF TIME HERE LOL, web-work if you run a website or sell on ebay, plus plenty more Im surely not thinking about. Trying to have a normal life when you're a glassblower is hard to do, free time is very precious.

[CDot]

i make 2-3k a month selling iso stuff. 6 days a week 8-12 hours a day. all times subject to change of course. we go to other cities to sell when things get slow in town..

[ALIEN!]

i make 2-3k a month selling iso stuff. 6 days a week 8-12 hours a day. all times subject to change of course. we go to other cities to sell when things get slow in town..

take home or is that before costs and taxes?

[CDot]

that doesnt include taxes or cost and that was a low ball number. i would guess i take home at least that. shop rent is only 400 so if i figure another 400 for materials which is WAY more than what i use prob thats only 800 which is like 2-4 days of work depending on what im making. i guess im just saying that if you want to make money you just have to work hard. just because you are not blowing glass doesnt meant that you are not working. its all about balance. some months i work hard but thats so i can take time to enjoy life whenever i want to. if you work a lot your skills will improve and thus your prices will show that. just make something that is better than whats out there and they will buy yours everytime...

[CDot]

the guy that works in the station next to me makes at least 4-6$ per min. and he employs about 8-9 other glass blowers to do his prep work. me being one of them. we could all easily pay our bills just doing contract work for a couple of day. theres money out there to be had... i was joking with him the other day that he makes like $6 per slice with his butter knife... but its not a joke...

[mark1905]

No dude I hear you, but you can still break it down to $/min that you are making on the actual torch time. As with anything there is the prep and upkeep work you do that you can't really bill out. Trust me.. I know. My "day" job is running a fully nationally distributed natural cosmetics company managing 50+ reps and keeping the ball rolling. Tell me about never sleeping lol..




^ theres your problem mark.

it's not about hours, imo... its 24/7


theres a quote from Mer around here.... "its not just a job, its a life style" or something of that sort... hit the nail on the head imo.

80%-95% of my day revolves around glass.... i think thats what it takes

[Lucius Emanuel]

sounds like you better hire some people then.. full time day job and you want to be a piper??!! you manage 50+, you've got to be making some bank. I'll take your job if you don't want it.

[phab]

My "day" job is running a fully nationally distributed natural cosmetics company managing 50+ reps



...keep your day job if you want money cause theres way more money in vanity than there is glass. larger clientele for starters. lipstick on a pig, think of all the farmers.

[Sparkey]

about 3 days a week i turn into a fume spoon machine. thick and clean. 10pc per hour avg. no distractions, minimal breaks, get in the zone and knock it out.
.

I would really like to hear about how you prep for that.....

[mark1905]

...keep your day job if you want money cause theres way more money in vanity than there is glass. larger clientele for starters. lipstick on a pig, think of all the farmers.



You know you'd think so but you'd be surprised. It's tough out there right now, I don't care who you are or what line of work you are in. There is always something to be said for being able to take these two hands right here in front of me and make a dollah out of 15 cents. Always. I'll never give glass up..

[Zed]

Here's a semi related question: if most pipers had adopted the 60's/70's "glass curtain" attitude towards their craft, would the industry be in this position right now? Like if no one ever showed anyone how to wrap/rake then W/R pipes would still be worth what they were in 1995 right?

I think its great that everyone shares ideas and techniques now and are welcoming of newcomers and helps them pick the stuff to buy and all that, but I also think this attitude especially pipers who brag about how great their job is has created this situation. Too many people in the game, with more at the door every day. Of course prices bottom in a situation like this. Pipemakers have been doing this to themselves and each other forever and I think this is more to blame for the prices bottoming out then imports. Every new piper immediately races for the bottom just to make sales, problem is that prices never tend to move back up at all, only down. Also there are tons of sweatshop type operations going on in the USA, probably with better conditions but still... If you work in a shop where you are obligated to make pipes all day and there is 15 other guys doing the same thing so that at the end of the week someone is trying to unload 1500 pipes then the distro guy is going to sell his pipes for less then if it was one guy trying to make it on his own. The craft was co-opted by people who only have money on their mind a long time ago and now they set prices.

This market is doomed, get what you can while you can and start thinking about a new career. I don't blame imports though I've seen plenty of pipers do this to themselves.

[FizZle]

Here's a semi related question: if most pipers had adopted the 60's/70's "glass curtain" attitude towards their craft, would the industry be in this position right now? Like if no one ever showed anyone how to wrap/rake then W/R pipes would still be worth what they were in 1995 right?

I think its great that everyone shares ideas and techniques now and are welcoming of newcomers and helps them pick the stuff to buy and all that, but I also think this attitude especially pipers who brag about how great their job is has created this situation. Too many people in the game, with more at the door every day. Of course prices bottom in a situation like this. Pipemakers have been doing this to themselves and each other forever and I think this is more to blame for the prices bottoming out then imports. Every new piper immediately races for the bottom just to make sales, problem is that prices never tend to move back up at all, only down. Also there are tons of sweatshop type operations going on in the USA, probably with better conditions but still... If you work in a shop where you are obligated to make pipes all day and there is 15 other guys doing the same thing so that at the end of the week someone is trying to unload 1500 pipes then the distro guy is going to sell his pipes for less then if it was one guy trying to make it on his own. The craft was co-opted by people who only have money on their mind a long time ago and now they set prices.

This market is doomed, get what you can while you can and start thinking about a new career. I don't blame imports though I've seen plenty of pipers do this to themselves.

...hmmm seem a little bitter, whenever you find a new career...ill take your accounts...is that cool?

[The Lorax]

Like if no one ever showed anyone how to wrap/rake then W/R pipes would still be worth what they were in 1995 right?


Maybe they were worth it to you, but wrap and rakes have always been pretty damn ugly to me! :tongue2:

evolve or get your new job

[Zed]

I'm not bitter, just calling it like I see it. I mostly quit piping a long time ago when bush came into office, I return to it now and then when I know ahead of time that I'll be compensated fairly. Too all the haters who refuse to engage the issue and would rather attack me personally: I'm doing fine, thanks for asking.

I like the community and sharing vibe too, on one hand I think its great. On the other hand I think putting every last technique on youtube means you shouldn't be surprised when someone in a 3rd world country starts shipping pieces made with those techniques back to the USA or even if someone down the street undercuts you with your accounts. 700 years ago you'd be killed if you were a glassworker and you got caught trying to leave Murano, there is a reason the Italians took drastic steps to protect their industry. As the craft of lampworking glass pipes gains disciples ever year, the amount of pieces on the market increases and prices fall and interest also falls.

This is just food for thought, if you'd like to debate me and take a stance that more and more pipers is a good thing and that everyone should get shown the latest techniques right away and that that increases the diversity of techniques out there and keeps prices up, I'd love to hear your arguments.

[faded]

roll that beautiful bean footage.

[Uriel]

This market is doomed, get what you can while you can and start thinking about a new career. I don't blame imports though I've seen plenty of pipers do this to themselves.

Its not a doomed market, its that kinda attitude thats dooming you, Glass half full or empty Idk I dont have time to look at it long enough to decide, Im too busy trying to fit 25hrs work into a 14 hr day!:bouncy:

People will always PAY good £ or $ for locally made quality goods

[jr23]

Yes there are more pipers every day, there are also more people coming of age every day, and people dieing every day.

Zed your argument takes into only the more pipers = less sales.

I say population growth and markets opening as more states go medical.

In fact I think my sales list is growing every month.

As for sharing well I am cool with it without sharing I would be on the rake and the smear and still be happy doing the do.

[jedi glassworks]

Zed,

Pipers sharing their techniques has also grown and expanded this community tenfold. Pipers might not be making fat bank, but there is a reason other long time glass makers(not pipers) have been getting into the pipe scene, even though a number of them were against the movement a few years back.

I remember a decade ago, the pipe scene was so closed off, it was WAY hard to meet other people who blew glass because no one wayed to share their techs. But now, there is so much exitement in this sharing that we are actually coming up with new ways of manipulating glass at such a fast rate, its hard to keep up.

Anyways, its a hard career, but an awsome lifestyle. I feel thats the reason some of us are going to do this the rest of our lives, because we love it.

Bryan

[Skye Perry]

Are shops really buying from Chinese suppliers on a regular basis? I mean.. I'm a business owner of an entirely different industry, and as a rule I don't deal with foreign suppliers because of beyond the obvious of keeping money in our own economy is the way, but the unreliability and scam factors.
The thing is most of the shops are buying imported glass China/india from distributers that get shipping containers full of prodo and then turn around and resell them to cigarette shops and head shops for a couple bucks more and they are still dirt cheap .Ok so think about it All the imports look the same same colors same patterns .My theory is that if you are making prodo mix it up try and not use the same 3 colors in every peice .This is what makes american prodo different from imports is the individuality of each peice you make .Change the shape up on each one a little also .Shit i rememebr when i got $10 for a wrap and rake that is you coun't get more than 5 for now but if each one was different you might be able to fetch 8. I don't know just a thought.

[chayes]

If each one is different it's not prodo.

[byron3]

If each one is different it's not prodo.

Chris I usually agree with you, but around here some peep's prodo are all different. Not by design choice but simply because they lack the skills to make each identical............. come to think of it that pretty much describes MY prodo.

lol...........

[Super Phunk]

I started on glass around 2005, way after the import glass hit the scene. As soon as i could make a nice wrap and rake I couldnt make enough of them and I usually have a list of at least 10 new stores I'm trying to get my work in if I can ever keep my cases full enough, so to each their own.

[Zed]

The east coast isn't as saturated with pipe makers as the west is, but probably will be one day soon if things keep going like they are.

[Jeffs Pieces]

I barley get by paying bills, I have a sketchy shed, its 430 am headding out to the shop b4 it gets 1000 degrees outside if I make more than my bills Ill buy the Beer :party:

[$$$$$$$]

We be ballin out like Rick Ross, all the time

[berning]

pipes are only a small portion of my sales. if it wasn't for all of the other things that i can make out of glass i wouldn't turn a profit at all.

i have a little tip for anyone who thinks that the pipe market is flooded and the prices are way down.........try making something other than a pipe.

here's the way i think about it. i'm a stoner , i will use a glass pipe, i have very little money to spend on peoples glass art.

my grandma is not a stoner, she will not buy a glass pipe, but she does have money to spend on other peoples glass art , and she does.

my thought is , i don't want to market to myself, i have no money , and if i do i'm only buyin one piece.
my grandma on the other hand, has money, likes to spend it one pretty little shiny things, and usaully buys stuff in sets.

stop for a second, let the smoke clear, and look at all the beautiful glass out there.

[Bo Diddles]

/\ Ditto.

[Cosmo]

You gotta find a niche more so that ever before.

Amen to that.

In the last two days I've made about $400 selling books.

[Aymie]

Mixing up your work is a great way to increase profit. I try to always have jewelry AND pipes in my case. Also more money in smoke shops than head shops. Find some shops that like nice glass. I don't work near as much as I should, but I get by almost exclusively off two shops. I make less than 20 spoons a year...only as a favor to one or both shops when they want some cheapies. And even then, I sell tiny two to three inch black spoons with a flower or glow dots for $12. I make anywhere from $60-120/hr...before costs.

I have also built a good strong reputation for my glass. I never take anything less than perfect in to the shops. Polish all your bowls and bottoms. Make sure your bowl holes, carbs, mouthpieces are nicely sized and clean. The fact that I polish everything is the reason I get so much for a little spoon...it just looks nicer. And I make what sells...even when it starts to bore me. Both shops tend to just ask for a price on my whole case without really inspecting anything because I never bring them sub-par work.

So yes, people are and you can make good money. W&R is not they way...find your style and exploit the shit out of it. Glass just sells better when it's something you enjoyed making instead of the same old thing every newb is doing.

[bildo]

So... I just read this whole thread and I know it is old. If you live in cali, oregon or washington work harder or move to tx florida or colorado or new york or .... I am a year in and I am not intimidated in the least by asian glass. I hear people talking about prodo, and I just dont get it. In my world prodo is anything that nets me 30 plus dollars an hour. There are not many businesses that one can make thirty an hour in one year independently. In this biz it feels like growth is unlimited. I have recently taken to trying to convince import shops to carry my glass. The importers are smart biz people and they realize if others are making money at something they can too. Make more, travel outside your comfort zone and embrace being an entepeneur or give your glass to someone who does. This shit is easy

[Action Glass]

word^ Im in cali doing just fine...... Btw someone mentioned 150 frit spoons at $8 a piece?!?!? I would not complain. but you should ask at least $12.

[bildo]

glad to hear that there is money in cali. 150 times 8 is 1200 a week. 4800 a month and over 50 stacks a year.

[B-Rye-oNeR]

Today I stooped to a new low... 5 dollar pcs. Never made anything under ten, but I was pleasantly surprised. They take no more than 5 min, and a dollar a min is fine with me. Just did sm pcs on color tube , and some fumed ones, made straight off the tube ,. ...Guess we can compete with imports

[Aymie]

Just in case any of you were considering the move to Texas, it's been 100-106 degrees here almost every day.

[Ronin]

and the wind is horrible. :bangHead:

[loydb]

And we're in the worst drought possibly ever. I am really concerned the well that supplies my neighborhood is going to disappear by mid-July. :(

[Ronin]

did you guys not get any of those wicked storms we had the past few days? we had quite a bit of rain dumped on us here in dallas.

[bildo]

It rained only lightly. But the water is always flowing at schlitterbahn. it has been 110 in my studio since april, when I step outside into 100 it feels like the cool ocean breeze. This central texas money keeps me going. Shit, been independant for almost a year and still havent had to go to dallas.

[gn0me]

my grandma on the other hand, has money, likes to spend it one pretty little shiny things, and usaully buys stuff in sets.

stop for a second, let the smoke clear, and look at all the beautiful glass out there.

It took me a little time to realize that a spoon minus the bowl and carb, with a bit of flaring to the mouthpiece is actually a really nice little handmade vase that can sell for $20 retail pretty easily.... Put it on the cafe counter, next to the register, with a flower and a pricetag and just watch them disappear.

Back to the grindstone, you lazy whores!

[LunacyMountain]

I totally felt this way when I first started metling...doomed....doomed to ever beat the chinese...doomed to leave a shop with an empty case and feel good about it....but as my skills increased and I started working on becoming a better salesperson and doing lots of research about where I go to sell my product my attitude totally changed...as long as my stuff looks nice when I open the case and their eyes light up...they generally pay what I ask, and you can even ask a little more for some things then give them a discount so they feel like they are getting a better deal....but honestly the industry isn't dying, sure there are plenty of shops that buy and sell chinese prodo. but there are plenty of shops that won't touch the shit... it really doesn't matter what you do the same problems are going to be in any industry, no matter if it's foreign or US sweat shops....my best advice to you if you are making decent product and having problems selling it is....learn a little about sales, which includes social psychology, and economics not just selling techniques...networking and finding the right stores to sell to is key...

[Aymie]

Another thought about Texas...we have the market that we do here because we have many devoted artists here who fight tooth and fucking nail for it. When a new shop questions my prices and had the audacity to compare them with the import garbage, I am not afraid to lose my sale, defending what we do. I point out and explain drilled bowl holes and crappy spoons that aren't annealed. I bounce my shit off the concrete and explain why you can do this with my work, and not with the import.

Those of you who are honestly afraid of import, I am happy for you to bow out and give up. You are not artists. You are simply craftsmen, and you can't compete with the quick and cheap skill of the Chinese and middle eastern craftsmen.

I make art, it just do happens to have a bowl and be functional. People here in town know my name, and it's not because I am a big named rock star. It's because I make quality work that looks fucking cool. It's because my work doesn't look like anyone else's.

Stop making spoons, stop making whatever crap the stores want cheap so you can compete with import. Polish your bowls, clean your devit, check your hole size. Then dig deep in to your artistic side and find your niche. If you can't do that, you are flooding the market with stuff that is no better than import. Get the fuck out of here and find a job behind a desk or answering a phone somewhere.

Those of us here in Austin work hard to make sure our style stands out and our work is quality. I will suffer and starve before I give in and attempt to compete with import to pay the bills. If you don't feel the same, then you are a craftsperson, not an artist...and you can't compete with import.

Those of us who really love this are doing it for the love of the art, not for the money. We just do happen to be lucky enough to find a love that can still pay the bills. If this is just a job for you, it's probably never going to be profitable.

[bildo]

Aymie you are hard core. I met you once at adam yoos and I see your work all over town. Please let me know if I get on your bad side. I will do anything to make it right. I have recently tried to convince import sellers that they can make money in more ways than one. It almost seems like they reject making money other than import. If I owned a shop I would try to carry something for everybody. A lot of import shops would increase biz if the even had a small local section. Also austin is a very local conscious place. I have never really considered myself an artist, always more of a hustler, though I do try to make my work mine. I recently heard of a blower that quit blowing in austin to work at at&t. shit is fucking crazy. You wont catch me getting out of this hustle anytime soon. P.S. Do you give lessons?

[Aymie]

You met me at the fart arm? What is your real name?

I very picky about who I do business with. As I said, I am not afraid to lose a sale based on my integrity. The BC and pipes plus/smoco have done a lot for our local business. They have basically forced any shop that wants to survive, to have a local selection. You can go in to those three shops and anyone working there can tell you who made Any piece you pick up. They fight for us, and as a result we work for them. George at the BC is the only shop I make a spoon for. Once a year or so he asks for a small batch of spoons. I make small spoons, twenty at most, for ten bucks a piece because he buys everything in my case, every time. And I change my work and what I do constantly, aside from the bracelets. But my work is always clean.

That's one of the most important lessons I can teach. Don't take your booty and janky shit to any shop you want to do regular business with. The shops in town I sell to know they don't have to check bowl hole sizes or look got imperfections. As a result, I don't spend an extra thirty minutes having them inspect my work. They see something they like and they already know and trust that it's good to go.

And yes I give lessons, but not for less than what I can make while on the torch. That's why you don't see me at the fart arm anymore. Adam isn't willing to pay my fees. And I am not willing to do anything but jack my lesson fees up for anyone who pumps out 20+ "artists" a year in to the Austin market. Don't get me wrong, I love Adam, and I got my first lessons from him, but I don't approve of what he does and he knows it.

[bildo]

My name is billy. If you have seen my work you would see it under 360glass. I met you there very briefly. I dont know why you were there but it was within the last year. I am getting better and all my bowl holes are the same size. Scuba has some spoons of mine and I sell a lot of prodo all over town. BC is still above my level I believe. I think I am in everywhere but bc. Hopefully soon. I make pipes for a living(no other job and quit hustling). I deal with a lot of import sellers in houston and I dont believe that import and I are competition. Ifyou ever want to meet me you can come by my studio or pm me some rates on lessons. I believe I am due. I have been out of the as you say fart farm since september I believe. My repertoir now includes iso, one piece shirlies, surface work. If you dont see me around town my progression thread will hit the streets(internet) very soon.

[berning]

if your strugglin with sellin ,look at post 73 in this thread ( thank you aymie ).

and then the 2nd post in this thread ( thank you mer)..... http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10272 .....

...and then take a look at your work. be honest with yourself , then go get your hustle on

[Aymie]

I have a problem remembering people I meet...I think some call it alcoholism. Iyar gave been there having deb cut my hair. I haven't done any lessons since I lived there in the winter of '09 and traded lessons for rent in the scary trailer I was inhabiting.

Glad to hear you are making it. It's hit or miss with his students.

Added edit after reading the last post that was put in while I was typing...apparently I said almost the exact same thing as last time...which just goes to dhow that no matter how much time passes, the same rules still apply. That and Mer and I make a great team. Too bad he is married and gus wife is fucking awesome.

[bildo]

I knew who you were because adam said you were fucking bad ass. He also would talk about how you have been published in one of the mags. I am not offended. I was and still am a rookie and you were and still are a vet.

[Aymie]

He should upgrade his bragging. I have been published in both glassline and the flow, both in a couple issues. He should probably warn people that I get cocky when drinking.

Fact of the matter is, I work hard to promote my name and what I do. I believe in this business and my art. And I love to write. Glassline actually rejected my last article, even though I wrote it to save his ass, because I was too mouthy. Now anything I write goes exclusively to the flow.

You too can be published. They live how tos on any level of skill.

[bildo]

For what it is worth you are adams example when he talks of success that his place has bred. I dont know if that is good or bad, true or false.

[Aymie]

I am the only one to come out of there who networks, but Hoss and mr smith both came out of there too and they both rock. Mr smith made me the functional and successful artist I am. When I met him I was just doing this as a hobby. He changed that.

[Boozeclues]

Ok so i finally go out today on my 2nd attempt to sell pipes today. Im feeling good, im 6 months into lamp working, my pipes are decent but plain.

I am ready to talk about american vs import and all that jazz when he pulls out a pipe from "The crush" which is from what i understand a American company that distributes pipes from american artists.

Anyways He shows me this pipe and its super thick, ISO, with cane work and gold fume. He said only pays $8 for those. He sells them for $60.

Im scared. I love glass and thought that once i could make a straight spoon I could at least sell them even if they were just fume with a few squiggles on them.

[Aymie]

You can...find a different shop. The stores I do business with do a 100% mark up plus five or ten bucks.

[drihos]

Then dig deep in to your artistic side and find your niche. If you can't do that, you are flooding the market with stuff that is no better than import. Get the fuck out of here and find a job behind a desk or answering a phone somewhere.


oh my fucking loins... I can't believe you just said that! https://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer?source=androidclient#photo/117732482717000171232/5624573203476974449/5624634545671976706
"it's not the image of love we desire, but the blood, sweat, and fire..."

[themoch]

Crush is factory made glass... it's usually an assembly line of artists who make one piece...

one guy will pull the point, somebody will open it up and fume.

someone else will draw the lines, and melt in

somebody shapes... they can turn out many pieces in an hour that a normal artist can not...

While factories like this have been around for a while, they are all production. do something that sets your production aside from what they have, and you won't have to worry.

Also, deal with shops that buy American, made by artists, glass. my local shop buys 95% of everything i make because they don't deal in anything imported, and have made it a point to not buy factory glass when possible. These are the shops that you want to deal with.

Like Aymie said, you need to teach the shops why your work is better. Form a solid working relationship with them. Talk to them about price points and what sort of stock they need that you can supply.

Walking into a shop with a case of something they don't want will not get you sales.

[kage]

Stop making spoons, stop making whatever crap the stores want cheap so you can compete with import. Polish your bowls, clean your devit, check your hole size. Then dig deep in to your artistic side and find your niche. If you can't do that, you are flooding the market with stuff that is no better than import. Get the fuck out of here and find a job behind a desk or answering a phone somewhere.

If this is just a job for you, it's probably never going to be profitable.

love you hon, but spoons is my middle name. during hard times, about 4-5 years ago, i would work twice as hard to make half the money. then a guy offers me $6 for something that takes me about 6 min. I was broke, in debt, two babies, and almost homeless, so i busted out as many spoons as he would take. i got faster and faster and he said to keep them coming, bc they were perfect, they were selling and it was a nice mid range spoon for the locals who were going through a recession and not spending a lot of money on glass. my simple pieces were flying off the shelves, while my "one of a kinds" were just sitting there.

One day i was in bad shape, feeling the recession myself, working two jobs and hardly anytime to make glass. I squeezed in a melting session, and told myself i wasn't gonna take a break, and just keep pumping em out until i had to go to my other job. two hours later, i had made 20 spoons. then i thought, why can't i work like this every day? (epiphany?)

so the faster i make the boring prodo, the more time i have to make what i want. right now my family relies solely on my glass, i'm doing about a g a week in profit, and its mostly spoons. If i spend all day on a headie bubbler, i add the hours up and it doesn't work out to nearly the amount of money i would get if i had just made spoons. truth is the scene is different everywhere and i can't rely on headdies to feed my kids up here. my spoons are cheap and simple, but they are still one of a kind bc when it comes to quality, no one else up here can touch them.

i've gotten into this before with others up here, who think they are too good for prodo, and it offends me, cause thats mainly what i'm doing right now. after 10 yrs on the torch, i don't always make what i want, but i gotta make what the people are buying to stay ahead. basically prodo is my 9-5 and i get to make my "art" on the weekends. one of a kind glass artists are a dime a dozen, especially when they've worked glass for a couple of years and think they're the shit. overpricing something just bc its different, doesn't always make it worth it. the thing about this just being a job, and never being profitable, i think just the opposite as you. prodo keeps my hands fresh, cash in my pocket and my family taken care of.

and do i consider myself an artist too? yes
do i look at my prodo and think, wow what a masterpiece? not at all

art vs craft debates are irritating, there is a line where something belongs one one side or the other, and then there is the stuff that goes either way. I make what i make bc i am a person in this world and i need to eat just like anyone else. sure i could answer phones, go back to working 2or 3 jobs maybe even work the drive through at mcdonalds, but they wont pay me $60/hr either.

[bildo]

Having a kid and responsibilities is a mutha fucka. I have a kid and debt and responsibilities. I like you am making solid cash as a rookie. I hope I never get so good that I stop makin dollars. A g a week profit is awesome. I am working toward that, not there yet but soon. I dont like the term prodo. Everything I make is to make money. I dont go to my studio to experiment. I go there because I have to get paid therefore anything I make is prodo. As long as the money is right, Ill make whatever the fuck I want.

[Aymie]

I am not saying trade spoons for bubs and such. Instead of spoons, I make one piece sherlies. I find it just as easy of a shape. Or mushrooms. Nicely shaped mushrooms are few and far between. And both those shapes sell better and for more money than a spoon.

And prodo is a must. Just make it artistic and uniquely your style. I would consider 95% of my work to be prodo.

And drihos...that link takes me to a blank page.

[drihos]

https://picasaweb.google.com/m/viewer?source=androidclient&fgl=true&pli=1&gsessionid=SM8rCRy-Tc6tJpAnsks-8Q#photo/117732482717000171232/5624573203476974449/5624634545671976706

[drihos]

Sorry, I was trying to post a pic, not a link. There ain't nothin wrong with spoons or prodo if youre making sales. What I got from Aymie's post was not bashing on prodo, but that those folks who find themselves out- competed by imports should take that challenge and rise above. Just because it's not a work of art don't mean youre not an artist. If you can make the glass dance, keep sawin on that fiddle! Lemme try that pic again...https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Nvl8EYgdqVo/Tg63UZYrNwI/AAAAAAAAADY/cQTfwjyovnI/s400/2.1.jpg?source=androidclient

[Sketchball]

And prodo is a must. Just make it artistic and uniquely your style.
Aymie hit the nail on the head here and in her other posts. Prodo should be set apart from import prodo, otherwise they're legitimate competition.

Many shops don't even see the point of having a local glass section... no matter how much you try to pound it into their brains that it's good for business and people appreciate. Sometimes that is the type of ignorance you will have to contend with. There's plenty of shops that are not worth your time and just end up being a waste of breath. Shops should appreciate what you do not tell you how much cheaper they can get the same glass elsewhere... Which is just the point, your glass should be unique and desirable enough to the point where shops can't find it anywhere else and they don't want to see it walk out of their doors.

Put some thought into your prodo line and think outside of the box - it gives a lot more room to haggle and you will never sweat walking out of a shop because they don't like your pricing.

I'm going to go back and scan through this thread because there's a lot of good info scattered through here.

[ITIS]

i made $20 today. :)

[Aymie]

I found a spot that a good friend told me is hard to get. I am a step above basic prodo but below headdies. So I am able to do really well. My "prodo" is fairly high priced. $30-60 each piece. But shops that don't but much big stuff and even shops that do love my work. It provides a nicer option for people who don't want the same old spoon, but can't afford the big stuff.

And find something gimmicky or trendy. I do Mario mushrooms to fill that spot. Been doing them long before I saw koji's. Even tried to get the shops that buy them from me to switch to him, but I have built such a strong reputation with them that they want them from me.

Saki sells the shit out of her hello kitty spoons. Sara shade does star wars dishes that come with a light saber dabber. I sell the shit out of my
Mario mushrooms. I am working on a care bear line. Think about stuff you loved as a child and work it in to your glass. Anything like that sells.

[TYME]

get off the computer and get to work... ignore china and they will go away?

[LTD]

yesterday I spent 8 hours at my shop and maybe 3 on the torch. The rest of the time was spent cleaning, doing prep, and cold working. I cleared a bit over $300 at the end of the day. I did not rush or stress out at any point. Some days are better , some are worse. Find your niche and fill it. Keep it fresh. If you are not a good sales/business person, hire one. Have fun above all else.

[drew1492]

I tell you what I have sold more shit since I have got a real job. If someone insults your prices you just walk away and most of the time they will stop you and want to buy something.

[myke]

I have been very fortunate to find a shop that not only takes all my stuff at my leisure but also ended up hiring me full time.The owner has since made it a point to increase his volume of local/domestic glass by more than 3 to 1 vs. imports and it has definitely had a positive effect on his sales.Having a (somewhat) knowledgeable lampworker on site has enabled his customers to make better informed decisions reguarding their purchases.Most of the imports i encounter are still poorly fused & when i point this out to customers it"s the sales clincher for sure.

[MikeTheSeer]

I wish I had the time and energy to give everyone rep on this post, thanks for all the info for this noob !

[Nighthawk]

You need to make Glass :) Thats a art form not a it all looks alike. If you are making art there is only one of them.

[artisticdave]

I make different styles don't limit myself to one I make just fumed, wrap n rake, inside out, tubecane and sometimes a mix of 2 of them and different pipes bats, peanuts, spoons, sherlocks, hammers and bubblers and do it all consistently I think that's important. In my experience stores look for consistency if ya walk in with 10 or more of one style 4inch spoon they should be similar in shape and size, I'm talking about production pieces add extras to your non production more one of a kind pieces

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

[istandalone24/7]

^^ word.

any tool can make a dozen pipes...it takes a true craftsman/artist to make a dozen identical pipes.