stick stacking and tube pulling

[justiceglass]

I've been reading hundreds of posts on this subject. I've recently tried my first two stickstack tube pulls with great results, but i wanted to start a thread to discusss a couple of details about the process.

First off, what do most of you folks prefer to do:
1. do the stickstack, encase, melt the f out of it but keep it fairly the same size then split in half(flame cut), garage them and pull the halves down into tubes as needed?

2. or do you pull the whole encased stack down to 12-15mm imediately starting at one end, then anneal for future use. (the problem is you end up with 15-20 inches of tube and one side gets too cold and cracks for me at least...)

My problem lies with the second method. Once i pulled down one side and went to pull the other side down, i spent too much time heating the second side and the first side cracked at the blowtube....(im using color that is known to work fine on the inside)

Now we are talking almost 20 inches of 12-15mm tube, how the hell do i keep the first side i pulled from cracking. Im going to try to do the first method and see if this helps my cracking probs. Im thinking pull down one side, flame cut it, garage it, then pull down the other side and repeat maybe.


I have one more question, what do you estimate the wall thickness of the pulled down tubes you all make are. Or how thick do you try to keep the walls.

all responses much appreciated!!
josh

[themoch]

if i use 50x5 and color only i usually can get almost 32 in of useable tube that is 15-20mm

i start with one side having a 12-15mm punty and the other a 16mm heavy wall tube

the trick i use is I only do about 4-6in of color in the tube which keeps it a manageable size for me.

i heat the whole thing up super hot, give it a puff, melt down and press so it becomes shorter... heat, puff, melt.

the reason for this is you want to make sure that all the color on the inside of the tube is melted in. if it is not this causes most of the cracking for me.

so i heat the whole thing up, and start pulling. SLOWLY. If i see that one side is thicker than the other i start heating that side in the flame and continue to pull.

after it gets about the size i want it i stop, let it set up then either flame cut in the center or use diamond shears to break it in two pieces.

at this point i make a decision as to which side needs to go in the kiln first. sometimes you have a real ganky mess that needs to be reheated.

usually i put the thinner one in the kiln and punty up to the thicker one. heat and pull the thicker end section until it's alright.

put both in the kiln for a while if i will use it for that day, or just leave them in there if i was doing prep work.

[themoch]

oh and my wall thickness is like 1.75-2mm for most of my tube on average.

[Dom]

Do it in one pull, and heat up each side instead of the middle. The middle will get hot by itself.

[chayes]

mine average 5-6 mm thick

[Black Fire]

In reheating cooled parts of the pull, whether on a ganky end or at the center to cut, your best friend is the far outer tip of a big puffy flame. Turn on your outer fire and tune in a big neutral-slightly reducing flame, then put the area you seek to reheat at the farthest extent of that flame, right where the blue gives way to non-flame, maybe a foot and a half away from the torch head. This flame will hardly ever crack anything at all, unless it's *really* ganky.

After only say 20 seconds of this treatment you'll be able to hit that section with any old cutting flame you'd like because it will be nice and relaxed.

[justiceglass]

thanks guys! all your sugjestions are awesome!!!!!!!

josh

[El Puck]

we do it on the lathe and pull it all once with and end product of about 1" diameter and 10 mil thick.

[Everestglass]

take sixteen 4 inch rods of color stacked into 4.5 inches of 50x5. Melt the sleeve down one inch at a time, pull into a 5 inch encased blank. Then, cut a 5.5 inch section of 50x5, clean and put it in the kiln. Slide your encased stick stack into the second sleeve and melt down. This step is quick since you are melting clear on clear. Puff only a bit to smooth the inside, taper the ends and get core heat going and pull into a tube 5 or six feet long, 16mm x 4mm give or take depending on the way you work glass. Tubing made like this will work much like clear and the color will not wash out. You can even re-encase small portions and re-pull more tubing when you are in a bind...

[chayes]

1" diameter and 10 mil thick.

That's some seriously thick tubing. What's the bore on that? 25x7 has a 11mm bore. Seems to me tubing that is 25mm in diameter with a 10mm wall would have a 5mm bore. Is it hard to work it with a wall that thick? Does it pull down like capillary tube?

[jr23]

yep I saw some of that double cased stick stack he is putting two layers of clear on top none on bottom.


It was decent looking tube on the bench I checked the cross section and the length of a few pieces.

I always take notes on things I have not seen before, but did not get to work any so I can't say how it works but saw piles of re-balls on the desk.

[themoch]

pull into a tube 5 or six feet long, 16mm x 4mm give or take depending on the way you work glass. Tubing made like this will work much like clear and the color will not wash out.

Really? it won't wash out? that's crazy... how are you getting 5 ft worth when you do that? I seriously get like 3-3.5ft that i'm happy with keeping... even if i leave 1in on the inside of the color when i do this.

i'm going to have to try this out.


yep I saw some of that double cased stick stack he is putting two layers of clear on top none on bottom.


It was decent looking tube on the bench I checked the cross section and the length of a few pieces.

damn i guess so... i'll give this method a go tonight... see what happens.

[jr23]

There lathe at the shop has a five or six foot bed.

so he is doing a reg stick stack and then pulling it just a bit so she fits back into 50.


I would have a friend over and some rollers ready if you are going to go for it by hand.

I like to pull it down all at once for line tube and solid tube stock I melt in an pull down to about twice the length of org blank.

I am not putting pulls in the kiln any longer. I bench cool.

At first I could not wrap my head around it , Then I just started doing smaller length pulls until I got it right with no waste or bad ends.

then just up the size of the blank a 1/2 inch each time.

[Everestglass]

The key for me is the tapered ends prior to pulling and the lack of clear under the color... Again, the sizes were just an estimate, but I get A LOT of tubing and its really thick. I usually take a 3 inch section and pull it down to make 4 large R-balls...

[Everestglass]

Really? it won't wash out? that's crazy... how are you getting 5 ft worth when you do that? I seriously get like 3-3.5ft that i'm happy with keeping... even if i leave 1in on the inside of the color when i do this.

Well, 2 layers of 50x5 is 10mm thick... AND I use 7-8mm color so the mass is about 17mm thick and 6 inches long before you pull it... It adds up to some really thick and opaque tubing...

[rabidgod]

I'm intrigued everest , pics? Reballs , stock, cut section , this is a whole nother animal

[Everestglass]

Well, I have to make a grip of tube tomorrow morning maybe I can get one of the guys in the shop to take some step by step pics while I work...

[Swampy]

took a while for me to seal the outer tube, then turn on the vaccuum...

when the seal isn't completely done that tube gets freekin hot when the flame gets sucked down it :-P

[jr23]

Yep my first try I did not have my carriage burner hooked up nore a mount for my torch and had a ribbon on the carriage and a mirage in my hand.

needless to say that it was a hot mother.

I like to put my ribbon right on the outer tube so it heats a band of glass and then I paddle it down then when It starts to fill the grooves I then click the vacuum on.

I have it on a pedal so I can turn it on or off no hands.

[Everestglass]

Here are a few pics of finished tubecane... One is compared to 12.7x2 and the bundle shows a few various sizes. I am sorting out pics I took of the process in a bit. I misplaced one blue line in the yellow dominant fade... bummer.

[Dom]

That is alot of clear on there, lets see a pic of some reballs or finished pieces.

[Lmwfy]

That is alot of clear on there, lets see a pic of some reballs or finished pieces.

this :D

[ALIEN!]

holy fucking shit. That is the most pimpest tube Ive ever seen. It looks so fucking nice its almost a shame to melt it and make it into other stuff. Seriously WOW.

[jr23]

Yep I got so exited the other day I put one rod in the wrong place too.

When you guys do the first stack are you using the pump.

If so do you or did you ever have any of them turn into solid rod.

I have only tried with a clear core,

[Everestglass]

No vac pump. This tube is hand pulled....

[justiceglass]

What black are you using in those tubes?
thanks
josh

[justiceglass]

I've been researching the crap out of this tube pulling phenom trying to find the way I feel is best for me and it occurs to me that if you are using 7 mill color rod and sleeving it only once with 50x5 then you will be left with a thicker color base then you have of clear. If we can pull these same colors down into 1 mill stringers and have them keep there full color, why should you need the color on the inside of the tube to be any thicker than 1-2mm after the pull.

so... basically im trying to say that its all about proportion. If you have saturated colors that hold color well why not double sleeve it. Im trying this method today... lol

thanks guys

[ITIS]

or start with thicker tube i did one the other day 90x7 outer 60x9 inner it worked ok but took so long to melt :twitch: