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View Full Version : chinese ground joints: "they're just as good as Simax!"



Eric S
07-04-2010, 10:36 AM
thanks dude at ABR......

I ordered GonG from abr a few months ago, and didnt like that the simax were 4.92 or something so i called em up and asked if i could get a discount on 100. To my mild surprise ross answered the phone, and i said, can i get a deal on these simax gon g, he says, sure thing, i can do 100 for 1$ each. i said YEAH and ordered 150. they came, i used them, i went to order some more recently, and get a regular employee. i say, can you hook up the simax and he says NO no matter how many you buy you're not getthing them for less than like 3.50 and thats at 200+ but hey we got these chinese ones here that i can do for 1$ each if you get 500+??

I tried to explain the sitch, and the best we could come up with is that i orignally asked for simax and ross hooked me up with the chinese without mentioning thats what i was getting. - awesome

ANYWAYS i ordered the chinese this time cause i didnt have much $$ and got 100 14 and 100 19. THEY ARE NOT ROUND! I didnt notice until i had already used like 30 of them cause i was using a graphite holder for the 14's and a 19 female prepped up but w/ graphite tape so they were snug. i couldnt feel the wobble, but when i tested them in finished pieces..... i'm not sure if they're not round, or if the taper is a different angle than the females, but these slides do not fit snugly and securely into females. Its like the bottom is too wide and contacts the female joint before the rest of the texture touches, so they ALL wobble.

Better than the wobble, is that they are straight up different sizes. some of them have 2-3-4 mm of frost sticking out of the female, and so far at least 1 finished piece has come out too small to get suction in a female?? I used the graphite holder to make it so didnt notice, then when the slide was finished i tried to put it in a piece and the joint was too small, slide right into the female up to the piece, even if you hold it in it wont fit snug and airtight. WTF????

IN conclusion, I should have expected this from chinese joints, and thats why i shyed away from them in the beginning, and tried not to order them. In my second ABR conversation, the guy on the phone says, EVERYBODY is getting these chinese ones, and they all really like them. they dont have problems, and everyone says they work just as well as the simax ones. we'll probably discontinue the simax ones soon because nobody likes how expensive they are...


SO has anyone else had this issue with these chinese joints?? where do you get the hookup on simax joints?? or UST? are they consistent? i dont imagine it could be any worse than what i've got...

Kevin Bumble
07-04-2010, 12:09 PM
UST is consistet every box i got is pimp if ya need a hook on htese contact me i can help ya out

Studio K
07-04-2010, 12:54 PM
REP for this bro...I get all mine thru Kevin !

Kevin Bumble
07-04-2010, 01:24 PM
i have also heard from other artists that the customers and stores notice the difference, with use in different apparatus. this makes a lot of sense to me i don't try every slide out i make em and sell em the custies notice.. you don't especially if yer using one of those carbon tool handle things how would you

dew
07-04-2010, 01:25 PM
i haven't had much luck with the chinese joints. the one's i've gotten will crack right where the frosted part meets the clear and the clear on them just gets super boily. i've been using the schott ones from mountain glass arts lately. i've found them to be nice and i think they're $1 more than the chinese.

hashmasta-kut
07-04-2010, 01:48 PM
i bought 6 male chinese joints they were a waste of money. i think from ABR too. totally not a good seal in any female i tried.

Grape
07-04-2010, 04:02 PM
This book I have by homer L hoyt has a glass ground joint forming tool in it. The book is from 1989.

glassblowingtv
07-04-2010, 04:23 PM
who published the book?

Super Phunk
07-04-2010, 05:17 PM
i like how they include some with crack lines in them at no extra charge

p.j.
07-04-2010, 06:31 PM
UST is consistet

x2.....and a great deal if you buy a case or 100

Swampy
07-04-2010, 07:00 PM
Agreed: Chinky is cheap to learn on but once you've got it down, UST is well worth the hard earned money you pay.

hashmasta-kut
07-04-2010, 07:25 PM
i cant find anywhere to buy UST stuff in canada tho.

PyroChixRock
07-04-2010, 10:39 PM
That Homer Hoyte book is in the GLDG library. ;)

Grape
07-05-2010, 12:19 AM
Is that tool legit or what?

p.j.
07-05-2010, 04:30 AM
i cant find anywhere to buy UST stuff in canada tho.

westone distribution

Natedizzle
07-05-2010, 12:33 PM
I've had the female Chinese joints break and cut the shit out of my palm just trying to seat the male in there! Fuck that I'm back on the UST thick joints.

hashmasta-kut
07-05-2010, 02:04 PM
westone distribution


its funny i already got this answer once, and i actually got a printout of their catalogue, and it doenst show any UST joints either. those guys suck at selling stuff :D

akmewon
07-05-2010, 04:45 PM
kevin bumble is tha man to get those joints from i have gotten 3 or so cases from and he kills any price i have seen

gn0me
07-07-2010, 09:25 AM
Anyone take a look at a bunch of these under a polariscope? I wonder if ramping them up in your kiln to an annealing cycle might help things out, or if they're just crappy glass all around. I have a feeling I know the answer already, but it's a thought! :bouncy:

Alfred
07-07-2010, 10:04 AM
Re-annealing won't make them round,the right size,or the proper taper.

somewhere
07-07-2010, 10:30 AM
I have never used Chinese ground joints. I do know the only way to make a ground joint is to tool it then grind it. My question is how can you grind a out of round joint. You would end up with a half ground half clear joint. It's not like they are sandblasted they are ground soooooooo how can this be? All ground joints are a standard taper this makes them universal. I just don't see how they rock in the taper. I do believe you and I'm sure they are crap I just don't see how this is happening. anyone?

Mecha
07-07-2010, 10:33 AM
I have never seen them out of round, but I have seen them off spec grind wise. Still standard taper, but overground so they sit incorrectly, or the sizing is off just a little (which makes a big difference.). I have never used them either, but I have seen plenty of wonky fittings at the shops around here.

somewhere
07-07-2010, 11:01 AM
Thanks mecha I still don't get it. Think about it if a joint is over ground lets say a 14/22 it will be a tad smaller then 14 but should still fit in the standard taper. I'm not trying to argue I'm just looking for some enlightenment. I'd love to see one in person I just can't help to think somehow it's user error.

Does anyone have a new set that rocks before it's a applied to the apparatus?

Mecha
07-07-2010, 11:08 AM
The over ground ones still seal, they just don't line up exactly. It seems like some are off before grinding. Also, I think the that the rocking ones may have been ground in a way that was not totally consistent with the standard taper. Never really examined them all that closely. I just saw the wobble in action from a few shop owners on the commons.

The original ones described in this thread had not been used, so I am pretty sure those ones are not related to user error. It is not clear if they wobbled or not before use. However, some finished stuff I have seen definitely shows that in an attempt to re grind, or sand blast a screwed up joint, the fittings became less than perfect.

melter skelter
07-07-2010, 11:13 AM
saw some chinese ground joints yesterday that were way off center .... maybe they're trying to tool them when they're too hot, makin em get wonky.

the length of the ground male part varies too, are are generally longer than the UST ones... I like mine as low profile as I can get...

Bumble's the man for ground joints ...

somewhere
07-07-2010, 11:21 AM
Ok if it's not user error you can make a quick fix. I little sic or aluminum oxide and tooth paste for a binder a few twists should fix it right up. (this will match the set witch may not work for interchangeable parts) Catch it before it's on the apparatus and you can regrind using a drill for quick work. I inherited two sets of joint grinding dies up to about 75mm. I could be talked out of them if someone was interested in trading.

somewhere
07-07-2010, 11:28 AM
saw some chinese ground joints yesterday that were way off center .... maybe they're trying to tool them when they're too hot, makin em get wonky.

the length of the ground male part varies too, are are generally longer than the UST ones... I like mine as low profile as I can get...

Bumble's the man for ground joints ...

Ok even if tooled hot you would see it when they are ground and if they are ground enough it wouldn't matter. The length is the second number on the joint 19/38 38mm long if I need a 19/20 low profile I just cut it off to length.

BTW: I'm sure the chinese joints are crap. Crappy glass and bad quality control you know how it goes:
you get what you pay for

gn0me
07-07-2010, 05:04 PM
Re-annealing won't make them round,the right size,or the proper taper.

I never claimed annealing to work magic, but there were some people complaining of them cracking when working...

Maybe the out of round/wrong taper/wrong size ones were annealed after grinding and they got the temp way wrong and slumped em or sometihng... "hey man, we read the annealing temperature in F but our equipment is set in C!"

It would be just like that failed Mars lander mission a while back :D

Super Phunk
07-08-2010, 03:28 PM
the chinese joints wobble just the way they are,

as far as trying to fix them or making them yourself theres no way the time involved would be worth it compared to what they cost to just buy them

somewhere
07-08-2010, 06:28 PM
I agree a bit like chasing your tail. Test fit first lol