Hello Glass Talk + need some advice!

[intriciteglass]

Hey Glass Talk,
You will be seeing me around these forums all the time now.i am very fascinated in blowing glass, especially boro. I will be blowing glass at first to create pipes, i know of course there is a lot of practice, time, and reading that goes into glassblowing before you can even make a little pipe.

I need some help though, i ordered contemporary glass works volume 1 + 2, and will read it foward/backwards/ and again lol, but I do not know if i should order a gtt lynx or a redmax, what are some of the necessary tools i will need to start my glass blowing?

My friend also blows glass in my town, hes getting really good, so I will have guidance throughout my journey lol


thanks glasstalk

[Kevin Bumble]

GTT alllllllllll day!!!! don"t be stupid


unless you like hauling O2 cylinders for the same work

[Swampy]

Welcome.

There's a bloke on here that makes 40mm marbles on a 3a/b torch. With a $150 investment you can get a decent second-hand one and with a variety of tips from Shelbo (search the members list), you will be able to complete a wide variety of work.

Good score on the books, I refer to my copies on a regular basis for guidance but mostly inspiration. I also use the 3a/b alongside the RedMax for fuming, intricate detail and working difficult joints.



If you have time, you can build your own kiln for about a third of the cost of a new one.

Where are you? ...someone in your location might have some tools taking up bench space...

Post pics of your stuff as you progress, for tips and guidance. Don't be shy, everyone on here started in exactly the same place you are now.

Good luck and welcome to your addiction.

[bzglass]

The great debate, I have seen this same question here so many times.

I even saved my .02 to my notepad, making it handy to copy and paste. Here it is.

Remember that the advise I have is really just my opinion, and every glass blower, will have his or her own opinion.

If you want to make pipes and stuff you will need to get a decent torch. If you really love working with glass, and you are able to do it a lot, you will probably grow out of smaller torches into a med. size torch pretty quickly. So you should probably start of with a medium size torch to begin with. It will not make things harder to learn(because of the size) it will actually help you to learn faster, because they are more versatile.

There are several brands of torch, and they are all very different from each other, in very specific ways. The best brand of glass torch is definitely the GTT's. The main torch of GTT is the Lynx. The lynx is the center fire torch of all their larger torches also. (all the med. and up GTT's have the Lynx inside them)

So my recommendation for anyone just starting out would be to buy a lynx about $500. Because it will help you get used to how GTT torches work and prepares you to have the skills ready to work the bigger GTT's. But if money is not a problem, then your best bet would be to get the Phantom About $1150., or Mirage $1750.

These two torches are awesome . The Mirage is bigger than the Phantom, and will get bigger things hotter, and faster. The Phantom is probably your best bet. You can do all those things you mentioned and a whole lot more. It will last forever, and will take you a while to out grow.

[bzglass]

3a/b torch. With a $150 investment you can get a decent second-hand one
Good luck and welcome to your addiction.

I def. agree with Swampy about getting started w/ the NATTY, if your fundage is limited. I started out on one, and It really worked out good for me. Also it makes a great 2nd hand torch, for when your ready to upgrade.

Having somebody you can watch, ask questions, and learn from is going to be your most valuable resource for getting started. Be wise, and don't burn any bridges with anyone in your own town, (or anywhere for that matter). Also don't sell your glass to a bunch of underage kids in your school. (have someone else do it for you) Youngsters will flip on you in a minute, and depending on where you live you could get in a lot of trouble. Just some thoughts I had.

Anyway good-luck with making glass and have fun with it.

[intriciteglass]

thanks so so so much from everyone

[berning]

the 3a rocks . i've made all kindsa stuff on, it's a great affordable torch. thar being said, get a lynx if you can afford it..... good luck and flame on

[Aymie]

I have worked on my red max for four years. It's the best option unless you anticipate being able to upgrade your lynx before long. You will be able to go much larger with the red max than the lynx.

[Dragonharper]

BZ,
I'm also a newbie making my first torch purchase. I've been trying to decide between: Carlisle Hell Cat, Nortel Red Rocket and the GTT Scorpion. From everything I've read so far the Carlisles are murder on O2, I'll be working from a 40 Cu Ft tank, and the GTT's sip at it in comparison. Since you didn't mention the Scorpion above may I assume that you don't like it? Why? The glass work I want to do will be mostly oil lamps, think 2.5 - 3.5 inch spheres, and maybe graduating into wine goblets as my skill increases. I may also do the ocassional marble or two. A Phantom is out my budget at the moment but the Scorpion is about the amount I'm willing to spend. I also discovered that GTT is about 1.5 hours drive from my current location, I may take a day trip and see them directly. What are good questions to ask?

[brettodie]

red max.

[Slimy-E]

Dragon Harper, I don't think you are going to do much working on a 40cf tank of o2, you would have to fill it 3 times a day. rent a 288cf or so from GTS-Welco.

Red max is big flame for the money, I know tons of people will dissagree with me on this, but a GTT cheetah is a nice torch, much bigger flame than a lynx for not much more. many say it does not get fine flame, but a lynx will not give you nearly as big a flame.

I would choose the extra fire power over the extra fine flame.

[glassblowingtv]

i myself recently ventured into lampworking after being in studio soft glass for years, spent plenty of time on friends torches, so i knew what i wanted, and knew what i could get on my budget. since it is mostly hobby now, im burning on a nortel mid range plus, wich is a great torch for the money, and i have been able to make most anything in my capabilities. if i was going lampwork fulltime, gtt all the way. mos def. as far as tools, : me beginning, i got a 3/4 bowl push, a 3/8 graphite, pencil reamer, small grabber, small graphite marver 4" x 4", (i would suggest getting a torch mounted marver, depending on your torch, these come in really handy and are great for pre heating small bits of glass) i like using my studio hand tools like small diamond shears, and small tweezers, but i have seen many lampworkers using common jewlers pliers, and some, even use regular small wire clines, its not about what tools you use, but in my opinion, tools made just for glass seem to work better, or at least, thats just what im used to. hope this helps!

[Kevin Bumble]

buy the red max if you must....for that big flame? The torch itself it highly in-efficient you will spend more money blowing thru the 02. Money you could have saved to buy a bigger torch perhaps that's why most red max owners stay with the beast o i forgot to mentions it's slow working too the heat saturation rate is low also....


fyi i have used many different torches and own a shop every one i ask about this ? laughs and they say you told them what to do,right?........ get the lynx big enough for a beginner wont lose its value works color awesomely

[Kevin Bumble]

don't be stupid buy the advanced technology.

[Dragonharper]

Thanks for the feedback. So Cheetah, instead of Scorpion? Since I'm not going to be doing this 8hrs a day trade my 40 CF tank in on a 125? My plan is to create a studio that I can work in for my retirement. 30 yrs working and my 401K went way south the last few years. :( At the current rate I can't retire until I'm 72, not an option. :depressed I may make the trek to GTT Tomorrow afternoon. I look forward to being part of this community.

I apologize for hijacking this thread but things were being discussed that were relevant to me.

[berning]

i have a scorpion, love it. didn't mention it earlier , because no one else did.. i choose the scorpion because i can't get oxygen delivery 4 to 5 months a year , and it's a 2 and a half hour round trip to get oxygen.........if it's not snowing. if it's snowing i'm looking at about a 4 hour drive.

needles to say, i got an oxy/con and a 3a. then i upgraded to a scorpion. had a chance a couple weeks ago to hook it up to lox..damn it rocked.

[Johan]

I have a Nortel RedMax for sale with a 12 hole pre-mix topfire and marver attached. Send me an email if your interested, i send you pics. Rg9403@verizon.net

[Swampy]

There's a used Nortel RedMax on sale, go to Generationsglass.com and go to the sales page.

[intriciteglass]

alrigth im seeing theres the gtt fans, the redmax fans, and other fans of torches.


im kinda feeling the gtt tho based on my research and etc.

but heres the biggest question. i have the money laying around should i just buy a cheetah and assure myself a goodt torch for a long time? would that be a smarter move?

[hashmasta-kut]

no. get a lynx, or a phantom if you feel rich enough, if gtt is what you want.

[Bo Diddles]

Red max. I run a mirage, but I started on a red max. The idea that it's better to get a lynx to learn the triple mix for when you upgrade later is absolutely ridiculous; that idea has got to stop being spread.
If you've got the cash, go phantom. If not, red max is the best bang for your buck. Trust me.

[Dragonharper]

Johan, PM sent.

[D kid]

I saw this made with my own eyes on a midrange.

[rockstar glassworks]

Red Max.

Do you really want to do this? Really, really?

I just got my first GTT, a mirage, and it's so freakin' aweseome that unicorns and rainbows shot out of it when I first lit it up. I'm glad I waited, started on an old school Nortel Major, upgraded to a Bethlehem Tigershark, and now I'm on a GTT.

If you start a bit cheaper..you can invest more in materials, a decent kiln, a good workbench... you can also beat the living crap of your Nortel while learning how to fume, what kinds of flames can damage your torch, how not to get molten glass stuck to your torch face etc..

When you get sick of your Redmax, need something better, faster, you can do pipes with your eyes closed... you can upgrade.

Just my $.02

[Kevin Bumble]

I saw this made with my own eyes on a midrange.




and.... so ????

[Jeffs Pieces]

I run 2 national 3a's piggy-backed with a combo of tips. Not my first choice but it works.:D

[TheGlassTree]

get a used carlisle cc.. :) its what i learned on and worked with for a couple of years. Still keep it around because i love it so... some of the best workers in the industry run cc's. You can get a good used on for around 600.....

[bzglass]

Dood if you have the money laying around, def. get The 4 stud Phantom$1200. It has the Lynx as the center fire, and is a torch you can grow into. It will make the red max look like a BIG waste of time torch.

Next price tier down I would get a Carlisle CC $600-$1000. You can make anything on this torch. I raged one for 5 years; they will last forever.

Next price range down, I would def. get the Lynx $435.

[bzglass]

BZ,
I'm also a newbie making my first torch purchase. I've been trying to decide between: Carlisle Hell Cat, Nortel Red Rocket and the GTT Scorpion. From everything I've read so far the Carlisles are murder on O2, I'll be working from a 40 Cu Ft tank, and the GTT's sip at it in comparison. Since you didn't mention the Scorpion above may I assume that you don't like it? Why? The glass work I want to do will be mostly oil lamps, think 2.5 - 3.5 inch spheres, and maybe graduating into wine goblets as my skill increases. I may also do the ocassional marble or two. A Phantom is out my budget at the moment but the Scorpion is about the amount I'm willing to spend. I also discovered that GTT is about 1.5 hours drive from my current location, I may take a day trip and see them directly. What are good questions to ask?

To be honest Harper, I have no experience with any of those torches. So I really couldn't give you a credible review on them. For my work they are all just to small, but they work well for many people. The scorpion is a really new torch, just coming out this year. It was designed to be used with the oxygen compressors. They seem to be well liked by those who have bought them.

I am sure what you read about the carlilse being bad on oxygen, was only relative to the cc and the cc+ not the Hellcat. So do keep that in mind.

[Riley]

cc is a nice buy, when and if you can get it second hand (budget in mind) for roughly $700. the thing with buying a new cc or really all carlisles is depreciation, buy a gtt, phantom sized or up and the resale is about 80% + of retail.

"GTT is about 1.5 hours drive from my current location, I may take a day trip and see them directly. What are good questions to ask?"

a good question to ask is why the misquoted times of manufacture and delivery if not to off set the time it takes to make a truly awesome product.

understandable. no seriously, thats why, in part, they keep value. thank god for fishing aye W + W.

a real question is, speaking of budget, will you be buying a a kiln? will you have adequate ventiliation? will i enjoy this hobby/career/side-income enough to invest and X amount of money ? will this investment pay off, does it need to or do i enjoy/have enough money to support this without profit for x period of time?

i learned on a national 3a for half a year. it opened up my ides to some of what this was all about. having come from using my (borrowed) highschool chemistry lab vials and beakers with a mapp gas torch in my bathroom, the national was a world apart. even after the national evolution (torch) my friend and i used a crock pot with vermiculite, which left most of our work cracked and left little room for actually making and having any thicker work (marbles , iso pipes, etc) survive.

i briefly used a major-minor (1st gen red max with different shaped/ported major fire) it sucked having to switch from your seperate top fire(small torch) to your larger(bottom torch) and vice versa. as you had to leave propane on one to light the other. so terrible. i was soon on a carlisle cc, and the ability to have the center fire all in one with an outer fire was an obvious time saving evolution. and an awesome fuming torch that could do an array of color work, especially marbles and thicker work, so well

from that i eventually went to a delta and my experience with all gtt's has been nothing other than fantastic. i have also run a 40mm, and a 65mm herbert arnold which was amazing with so many colors (especially crayons that the cc boiled) and a real gas saver with compressed air and a propane running pres. below 5 psi. they are kind of booku bucks too. not sure what the exchange rate is right now but they are german made so look for a dollar-euro exchange rate.

i think most folks on here will say go gtt, best resale when upgrading, and so much variability and function. the lynx will set you up for the way these torches grow and evolve. scorpion is a new torch they have offered and so there is proobably going to be little feedback on that route.

scorpion seems like a torch for oxy concentrator users. probably like a hybrid car, it will go farther, but at the cost of power. cricket is a small torch good for bead making, not really the center fire you want for boro and growing into larger boro work.

anyhow blah blah, had a few (minutes/drinks) and felt like telling my torch life history. go with a gtt (lynx and up, for resale, and for general badassness), or used carlisle (when available, and in good enough condition). avoid major/minor and redmax torches. seperate flames will be a pain, especially after you get to a center-fire torch and look back.

[Dragonharper]

Riley,
You make some excellent points, as far a budget I've got a decent budget and the cash to spend about $800 on a torch and about the same on a kiln, I've been looking at a Paragon SC3. "will you have adequate ventiliation? will i enjoy this hobby/career/side-income enough to invest and X amount of money ? will this investment pay off, does it need to or do i enjoy/have enough money to support this without profit for x period of time?" excellent questions and ones that I have been asking myself.

[Uriel]

The thing thats been pointed out about Gtt's is resale value if you dont get on with this sport then at least you CAN get upto 80% value on resale, thats better than the clifftop plummet 'most' other manufacturers products expirence.

Imo there's more to it than just being a 'fan' of one manufacturer or another. personally I look for performance/cost of running/cost to repair/ resale there's only 1 manufacturer in the game and their torches come with 3 knobs per face :D

If that puts me in the Fanboi club then so be it!

[Riley]

just found some gtt videos posted by kbinkster.

here is a GTT scorpion doing its thing with an oxy concentrator. flame doesn't look so bad excpet when you see how big her hands look in reference to the flame size. probably an amazing bead torch, and never paying for oxy, except the initial cost of oxy concentrator, and electricity to run, would be awesome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w6x0mj9Ccc

[intriciteglass]

appreciate all the feedback and help, but this deal on ebay was enough for me!
CAN NOT WAIT TO START BLOWING GLASS! WOOOOO

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230510149216&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

[Kevin Bumble]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

ya fucked up....

should a bought a lynx.

have fun filling tanks.

when ya up grade, you will like the GTT.

[Bo Diddles]

Great choice man. You won't regret it.

[intriciteglass]

kevinbumble-i shall experiance the GTT greatness in a year or so.
diddles- thank you

question is now, if i really have my heart set on blowing glass and want to eventually create tabacco pieces over 2feet tall. should i just spend the money now and get a big oven verse a smaller one?

[Mecha]

Well, a larger kiln gives you more of a ceiling to work within. It does require more energy though, so that is a thought. It may take a little while to get to the point where you are making decent enough two plus foot pipes to sell.

If you are planning on making a go at turning a profit, then I would say get a mid sized one first, then upgrade to a large one.

That being said, a big kiln is a nice luxury. I guess you need to weigh your options and analyze your budget.

Sorry for the ambiguity....

[intriciteglass]

mmm very good points to put into consideration, because it will take me a while to even get to the point were i will be creating pieces that large + the energy

[Kevin Bumble]

you wont like my answer way... find one that matches the red max big and inefficient. that's the direction yer headed

[Riley]

kilns, large kilns in particular cost a good chunk of change for freight. depending on where you are in relation to the distributor/manufacturer.

also kilns depreciate, some more than others. smaller kilns in particular lose about roughly 35% of their value almost instantly, like buying a new car versus used. not to say larger kilns don't lose value also, but they are more desirable, therefore you will be more likely to find a buyer, and less compromise on price.

if you want to resell a kiln shipping comes into play again. you usually end up losing even more money on the resale to shipping cost.

if you get a medium sized bench kiln, like say a aim 9169 or a paragon 4130, you may decide, after buying a larger kiln, to keep it for an apprentice/larger shop/overflow kiln etc. where as buying a very small kiln, you will probably want it gone.

sometimes budget won't permit this, but, obviously, 2 bench top kilns is better than one. so if you get a decent sized kiln now, you will just want to add to the collection. if you want to do larger pieces/ prodo waterpipes etc. you're probably going to need/want a large top loader as well, digital on everything preferred/recommended

[p.j.]

having a small kiln is nice to use for hot assembly, then you can move stuff into the larger kiln. you can never have enough kilns or torches or tools

[petto]

you wont like my answer way... find one that matches the red max big and inefficient. that's the direction yer headed

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

lol, Kevin, just read through this whole thread, you had me rolling :D.

Maybe this kiln then for a first kiln?
http://www.skutt.com/products/km-1027.html

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[petto]

Seriously though intriciteglass this is the kiln I have and love it. Bigger would be better and smaller would be a waste as soon as your game is up a little. I plan to (when I get a bigger shop) get a bigger kiln but will keep this kiln for overflow, sections, mibs, etc... . Like someone above said you can never have to many kilns and don't worry about the electricity cost, if your kiln is 240V you won't hardly even notice. In fact when I switched from a smaller 110V to the bigger 240V kiln my "e" bill did not even jump noticeably.

My kiln:169GS/D.....$1280.00: http://www.aimkilns.com/99ls_9169gs.html#9169GS
My dream kiln: The scarab: http://www.skutt.com/glass/products/hotglasskilns.php
(the XL version)

[intriciteglass]

petto/riley/p.j- thanks a lot appreciate it all the information, helps me out so much

kevin bumble- dont worry give it a week-2 and ill be in the GTT family, there was a whole game plan behind this ebay purchase.

i think i might just get a medium for now, see how things go, then upgrade when the time comes.

[Kevin Bumble]

lol petto...thx ... that was exactly what i was thinking... just the right size for bongs