small hotshop

[Sparkey]

I have this wild dream of having a small hotshop in my studio. The hardest part will be getting a house with a decent size shop or garage...hopefully I can swing that in the next year or so. The second part is saving up the $5-10K to install the furnace/glory hole/annealer/etc.

A friend of mine recommended this DVD on how to build a furnace:

http://www.mayneislandglass.com/40poundfurnace.htm

Honestly, 40llbs seems kind of small for doing production work...then again, I'm always good for my eyes being bigger than my stomach. I'd anticipate goblet/cups, small tubes and paperweights.

I'd like to do as much fabrication of the pieces as possible, as this would set me up to maintain the equipment myself.

Anyone have pics of their home hotshops they would like to share? Thoughts on costs and considerations of putting it together?

Thanks!

Josh

[Icarus]

I don't have any advice, but I hope it works for you, and i hope you'll be so kind as to share pics when you're done with it.

[Sparkey]

I don't have any advice, but I hope it works for you, and i hope you'll be so kind as to share pics when you're done with it.

It will be a while, but I will definitely post pictures. It would be so much fun to have a hotshop at home.

[somewhere]

I have much to say but no time right now. I will say it's a wild ride and one of the best things that's happened in my life. I've been at it a long time and it was all built piece by piece. I'm happy to answer any questions and I'll post more later. I have some stuff on glass artists but unfortunately had to pull most of it. Long story.

[loydb]

The GA glory hole they showed at AGI was pretty amazing. The 20,000 watt 3-crucible kiln was as well. You might want to check into them.

[Sparkey]

I have much to say but no time right now. I will say it's a wild ride and one of the best things that's happened in my life. I've been at it a long time and it was all built piece by piece. I'm happy to answer any questions and I'll post more later. I have some stuff on glass artists but unfortunately had to pull most of it. Long story.

When you have time, I'd love to hear about it....

[themoch]

Adam V, 2BA are writing some sweet stuff up for the flow soon.

i hear they had a swanky camera man shoot the whole thing :naughty:

[Sparkey]

On putting together a small production studio, or fabricating the furnace/gloryhole etc?


Adam V, 2BA are writing some sweet stuff up for the flow soon.

i hear they had a swanky camera man shoot the whole thing :naughty:

[somewhere]

I have a quick sec to say something about 40lbs of glass. I have never used a top gathering furnace but with 40lbs of glass you can make almost 200 ornaments or 20 decent sized pumpkins, or 50 dicro paper weights, or 100 small bus vases, or 15 platters, or 15 vases, the list goes on and on. My first furnace was built to melt boro but when I decided to explore 96 Coe I built a 350lbs furnace. Now I'm happy to blow about 60lbs a day with the new addition of two colors pots. I guess what I'm saying is 40lbs is a great start.

Btw: I watched those vids lots of good info but mostly just a sleep aid. Lol

[themoch]

On putting together a small production studio, or fabricating the furnace/gloryhole etc?

well fabricating a gloryhole and furnace... gloryhole mostly....

[barefoot stash]

If you already have a bunch of hotshop experience disregard this..otherwise I would highly recommend looking into renting hotshop time first if at all possible in your area. That way you can develop your skill and product line without the stress of running the studio. You will also be able to get a feel of what you really need in your shop. Just like everything else in glass, the initial investment ends up being the cheapest part. Keeping it up and running is what gets ya, and it's nice to be able to hit the ground running.

[Icarus]

No ones mentioned Henry Halmes book yet, but get yourself a copy of Glass Notes. It's all about fabricating the equipment needed in a hotshop. I've never even been in a hotshop and I've found the book incredibly helpful.

Somewhere, I'd also love to hear the story. Shame you had to pull down your pics. Looking at those when I was first building my studio and seriously getting into glass was a great inspiration to me.

[N~DARK]

Hit me up with any Q. you have! Just PM me and I'll tell you whatever you want to know. The hot shop you want for Boro or for Softglass?

I have a furnace that runs 110lbs crucible for softglass. 2250 is cooking temp. and work between 2050 and 2100degrees. I built it from scratch. wildglass.com has vids. of us working you you want to see. The furnace in the vid's is a converted octagon kiln. I have 2 GH's I built 1- 18inches around and 33inches deep. the second is a 10inches around and 14inches deep. I have 3 annealers, 1 pick-up oven for color bits. Pipes, match puntys, bit puntys, Cup shears, Diamond Shears, Jacks, Cherry Blocks, Paddels, are just a few of the tools you will need.

Took me 5years of hard work to get everthing I needed to get started. One of the best things I've ever done for myself. Not cheep though- not to buy, build or run. But the creative freedom is well worth it!

Also both of Edward T. Schmid books are worth the money for info on the subject of off hand softglass work!

[Sparkey]

Thanks for the input everyone! I used to do some hotshop at Chicago Hot Glass when I was living there...I had a tech slot on Monday nights and still haven't used all the time I accumulated there.

Using an octagon kiln for a furnace is the best idea yet! Don't ceramic kilns ramp up to 2200 pretty easily? Wire a switch to the lid to kill the current with it is opened and you're good to go?

And I'll definitely check out the books that have been suggested in the thread. Anyone wanna post some pictures of their setups?



Hit me up with any Q. you have! Just PM me and I'll tell you whatever you want to know. The hot shop you want for Boro or for Softglass?

I have a furnace that runs 110lbs crucible for softglass. 2250 is cooking temp. and work between 2050 and 2100degrees. I built it from scratch. wildglass.com has vids. of us working you you want to see. The furnace in the vid's is a converted octagon kiln. I have 2 GH's I built 1- 18inches around and 33inches deep. the second is a 10inches around and 14inches deep. I have 3 annealers, 1 pick-up oven for color bits. Pipes, match puntys, bit puntys, Cup shears, Diamond Shears, Jacks, Cherry Blocks, Paddels, are just a few of the tools you will need.

Took me 5years of hard work to get everthing I needed to get started. One of the best things I've ever done for myself. Not cheep though- not to buy, build or run. But the creative freedom is well worth it!

Also both of Edward T. Schmid books are worth the money for info on the subject of off hand softglass work!

[frillcappa]

I worked in a hotshop for about a year, and its one of my best experiences. i say take a class, or just rent time at a studio like said before if you have experience already. i would love to one day build my own hotshop aswell. i find it more fun than lampworking, but way less lucritive. i would try to build as much of the equiptment as possible, its not too hard. good luck man.

[justiceglass]

i have been slowly putting together a small setup just as the one you describe. the last component i need to build is the furnace and i am building from the video you linked from mark laukners page.

here is a few pics of some of the equipment that i have finished. just waiting on a bit more fundage for the few parts i have left to buy for the furnace.

http://www.justiceglassworks.com/theworks.html

as a few others have offered, feel free to pm me with any specific questions you may have about anything involving soft glass and my small setup. always willing to help!!!!

oh and by the way, my first furnace atempt was a failure(hard lessons learned) then a few years down the line(bout a year ago) I bought an old octogonal ceramics kiln and wrapped it in 6 inches of frax. it worked great for about a month when the orginal elements crapped out and i decided to build laukners 40 pounder. 40 pounds of molten glass is quite a bit for someone just starting out. plus if you ever decide you want more, you can use the 40 pounder as a color kiln and build urself a 100 lb furnace.

[N~DARK]

Hop on Wildglass.com and check out the videos. You can see my set-up there.
I buy Bigger gauge element wire than a normal ceramic kiln. The basic elemnts will last a short time but to cook properly you have to take them to 2250. That is about there max. They will not last long though. I run 5 or 6 elements in the furance. 6 is best! It pulls about 45-50amps and I have it on a 60amp breaker. I also have the curcible surrounded by hard Brick to reduce the empty space inside and give more material to hold the temp in when the lid is open. I do not use a kill switch on the lid. I have seen this cause a ton of problems on other furnaces and so I don't use one. This can cause control problems as well as a large loss of temp in the kiln. Crucibles can crack from thermal shocked. That is just BAD News! Can cause a full rebuild. I've had one crack spill 50lbs of glass into the kiln @2200, @ that temp the glass is like lava... destroys Everything it touches! I've been to CHG and they have a lot more space than I do. I have my studio in a 20 x 24 space...
Also I built my Bench, Marver,Yokes, Pipe cooler, and more or less everything else. This is an easy way to save yourself a few thousand buck! DIY..... Best of luck in this prjoect. I hope this helps a little.

[Sparkey]

Great to see Illinois artists doin' their thing :-)

So what kind of welding torch would I need to cut and weld angle iron together to build things?



Hop on Wildglass.com and check out the videos. You can see my set-up there.
I buy Bigger gauge element wire than a normal ceramic kiln. The basic elemnts will last a short time but to cook properly you have to take them to 2250. That is about there max. They will not last long though. I run 5 or 6 elements in the furance. 6 is best! It pulls about 45-50amps and I have it on a 60amp breaker. I also have the curcible surrounded by hard Brick to reduce the empty space inside and give more material to hold the temp in when the lid is open. I do not use a kill switch on the lid. I have seen this cause a ton of problems on other furnaces and so I don't use one. This can cause control problems as well as a large loss of temp in the kiln. Crucibles can crack from thermal shocked. That is just BAD News! Can cause a full rebuild. I've had one crack spill 50lbs of glass into the kiln @2200, @ that temp the glass is like lava... destroys Everything it touches! I've been to CHG and they have a lot more space than I do. I have my studio in a 20 x 24 space...
Also I built my Bench, Marver,Yokes, Pipe cooler, and more or less everything else. This is an easy way to save yourself a few thousand buck! DIY..... Best of luck in this prjoect. I hope this helps a little.

[ornametalsmith]

Really enjoying this thread. Great info fellas.
Sparkey....I'd suggest a small 110 MIG welder(just like the one used to fab the unit in that video)........could be one of the cheaper models. That and an abrasive saw(like in Vid) or band saw will cut the material. You could use a "cutting torch" to cut the angle iron..but there would be clean up before welding.

[Icarus]

here is a few pics of some of the equipment that i have finished. just waiting on a bit more fundage for the few parts i have left to buy for the furnace.

http://www.justiceglassworks.com/theworks.html



Great stuff man. I'm really impressed. I'd rep you, but it looks like I gotta spread it around a bit more.

[davidwillisglass]

Standard answer: hotshops are expensive

part 1. you can take a lot of classes and rent a lot of time for what it costs to build a hot shop
part 2. dont build a hot shop until you have a product, the skills to produce it and someone to buy it

that being said... do what you like. struggle can be good for us, and i support learning of all kinds as long as you are having fun.

[zippetmonster]

sparky sounds like you have a good handle on things. I have build a bunch of equipment and a kill switch on the lid of the furnace is nice. If you build it right the switch will operate correctly. I didn't have one on my furnace at first and i thought i was fine until i touched the wrong thing while working and got zapped. Then I put in a double pole mercury switch. After you get zapped once you take the time to engineer it right!

[Sparkey]

Standard answer: hotshops are expensive

part 1. you can take a lot of classes and rent a lot of time for what it costs to build a hot shop
part 2. dont build a hot shop until you have a product, the skills to produce it and someone to buy it

that being said... do what you like. struggle can be good for us, and i support learning of all kinds as long as you are having fun.

Agreed and understood. I'm a hobbyist and since moving to Eugene I really don't sell much glass (although I have been selling pieces through requests lately). I have the luxury of being able to fund my ideas through a day job, and the end goal is to some day lower my expenses and raise my skill set to a point where I could consider blowing glass full time. Building out the infrastructure for that now while I've got my day job makes that easier.

The other reason is that there is nothing like the comfort of your own shop, being able to park your ass on your own couch for lunch, then go back out to work some more. I would really enjoy my evenings and weekends just making baller nug jars on a glory hole, much bigger than what I could manage on a torch. Hell, if I've got a welder I'll make my own Pastorelli fork for rollups :-)

The thing that concerns me about a hotshop is the cost of maintenance. Everything - kilns, glory holes, furnaces - are perishable items and by fabricating them myself, I will be able to maintain them myself. I may be able to recoup some of that by renting it out, but I honestly wouldn't want other people working on my equipment. No one will take care of your things the way you do yourself.

Thanks again for the input everyone.

Josh

[Shatner]

If you already have a bunch of hotshop experience disregard this..otherwise I would highly recommend looking into renting hotshop time first if at all possible in your area. That way you can develop your skill and product line without the stress of running the studio. You will also be able to get a feel of what you really need in your shop. Just like everything else in glass, the initial investment ends up being the cheapest part. Keeping it up and running is what gets ya, and it's nice to be able to hit the ground running.

Pretty much what's in the bolded. I don't know much about hot shop studios, but I have visited one with the late Shannon Hill during a Carlisle class.


While speaking to the studio artist/owner, he mentioned $6,000+ gas bills/month. I don't know how accurate that number is, but I have no reason to distrust this person.

You also would like to have pipe coolers and pipe warmers. G.H. and furnace are obvious. Along with a bench. you'll also need a table to lay stringer and frit patterns.

Have you taken in to account any electiral service that you might not have, or be ready for. ie. Bigger braker, which means bigger wiring and a new wall outlet to match the Ampreage.

I'm not trying to iscourage you; in fact, I hope you get to put it together! And if you do, please provide "along the way" pics.

Just my .02C

Good luck!

[Sparkey]

So we are moving forward on building the 40llb furnace; a buddy of mind does some ironwork and has a welder already. There was enough crossover between a glory hole and a forge that we just decided to go ahead and fabricate it (the furnace).

I ordered the DVD, as well as this book:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1885663021/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=&seller=

These two will be ordered at some point in the future:

http://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Glassblowing-Edward-T-Schmid/dp/0963872826/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

and

http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-Glassworking-Techniques-Edward-Schmid/dp/0963872818/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

I was gonna pay off my IRS debt....but...why would I do that when I could have a glass furnace??

:-)

Josh

[justiceglass]

thanks for the kind words! :D

[Sparkey]

thanks for the kind words! :D

Thanks for the inspiration! I hope you don't mind if I use some of your pics.

Did you insulate the drum at all in this? Cement? Frax? Sand in the bottom?

http://www.justiceglassworks.com/assets/smallglory8.jpg

Really excited about building this, simple and functional. This will probably go into my buddys forge.

http://www.justiceglassworks.com/assets/smallglory5.jpg

[justiceglass]

brick on bottom frax on on top. check out henry halems book and dudley gibersons book as well.
www.joppaglassworks.com has a lot of free info

have fun!
josh

[Sparkey]

adding this to the thread, a burner dyi pretty much identical to yours

http://handmade-glass.com/cgi-bin/admin/adminconf.pl?read=14442

and a corrected link http://www.joppaglass.com/

[N~DARK]

I use Burners from PineRidge. They are Awsome and run great! Because they are rectangular and not round the flame is spread out more in the container. Harbison-Walker Refractories is where I buy my refractoties. I poor thee bottom of the GH and let it set -up , then insert and wieght down a sonet tube in the center of the container. put the tube in a garbage bag and tape it well. poor around the tube and let set. I leave about 3 inches to the end of the container that area I poor a Higher temp refractory Missou. This high temp refractory will hold the heat back in the container when the doors are open it will keep the heat inside... with the burner I have 175,000BTU burns through a 100LP tank in two six hour sessions. It will freeze the tank @ six hours so I have to change tanks @ that point and let the 1st one thaw...

[somewhere]

Ribbon burners are great for even heating but if your used to using a torch to heat your glass a giberson tip or something like it delivers a nice hot spot. I'm trying to follow your post n-dark but not sure. Doesn't matter if you use brick or castable but you will want to back it with fiber. Your cast shell only needs to be a couple inches thick anything more is counter productive. Kastolite 30plus is a great all around castable. Mizzou makes a great floor but has no insulation value. A heat retention ring is a must. This reduces the size of the opening smaller then the interior. In turn it will hold the heat in when the doors are open.

[Sparkey]

Got any pictures of in-progress or the finished furnace?


I use Burners from PineRidge. They are Awsome and run great! Because they are rectangular and not round the flame is spread out more in the container. Harbison-Walker Refractories is where I buy my refractoties. I poor thee bottom of the GH and let it set -up , then insert and wieght down a sonet tube in the center of the container. put the tube in a garbage bag and tape it well. poor around the tube and let set. I leave about 3 inches to the end of the container that area I poor a Higher temp refractory Missou. This high temp refractory will hold the heat back in the container when the doors are open it will keep the heat inside... with the burner I have 175,000BTU burns through a 100LP tank in two six hour sessions. It will freeze the tank @ six hours so I have to change tanks @ that point and let the 1st one thaw...

[Sparkey]

I found this thread, which is interesting:

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19349

I've been looking at Ebay and controllers that are compatible with S type thermocouplers are pretty cheap. Can I really get away with buying one on the cheap? Also, I was considering scavenging a controller from a used ceramic kiln that are cheap on Craigslist. Any thoughts??

I haven't received either the book or the DVD's yet....boo...

Thanks

Josh

[J Howard]

i haven't tried to rent time a corning in a long while, but....

when i was, it was getting hard to find time slots because several hot shops in the area were closing down because it was cheaper to rent time than it was to run your own shop. rental at corning at the time was 35$ an hour, just to put that in perspective. figure on about 500$ in gas, just to light the furnace and get the glass melted. once it's going, you can't shut it down!

none the less, i'd like to build one myself! i just put a floor into my barn, so now i have the space. just 30k more to go!