Anyone seen this article?

[andrew brown]

Just wondering if anyone has seen this one. It sure does come across as condescending to me :puzzled:
http://blog.glassquarterly.com/2010/07/07/book-report-is-new-coffeetable-book-on-glass-pipes-really-part-of-an-ongoing-bid-for-fine-art-status/

There is also has been an interesting ongoing conversation about pipe makers on paul stakards facebook page that is an interesting read.

Peace
Carver-B?

[Lmwfy]

i'm not gonna lie, the title of the article got my immediate attention!

:crazy:



are we launching an internet attack against this guy yet?

[somewhere]

Great link! I don't see it as being condescending but I've been known to miss the obvious. Seems to me like it asks the question and the reader has to make the decision.

Thanks for posting.

[somewhere]

What the hell is face book everytime someone posts a link I just scratch my head and wonder am I really missing something here? Whatever

[Grape]

the paul stakards conversation is interesting.

[loydb]

Link to the FB thread please? It won't let me search without signing up...

[FredLight]

Condescending and dickish, possible envy all together.

[andrew brown]

I think the article starts that way, but can be read a couple of different ways. Im still up in the air about it. Interesting read, everyone has their own take on things I suppose.

I think you have to sign up to read it but heres the link,
http://www.facebook.com/stankard?v=wall&story_fbid=154463204571911&ref=notif&notif_t=feed_comment_reply

About facebook, I though the same thing until about two years ago. Facebook is easily the best free marketing tool there is available. You have access to international customers, shops, galleries, publications, exhibitions etc. It is amazing the volume of work you can move or have the world see by having a facebook presence. I don't want to highjack the thread but here is a interesting facebook marketing link. Or just type in facebook and marketing into google.
http://www.insidecrm.com/features/facebook-marketing-toolbox-012308/

Andrew

[FredLight]

Couldn't bring up that Stankard page on FB.

I searched his name and it came up as someone else, young guy with taped glasses,nerd style.

[mer]

i tried to paste in the fb article but it didn't work well, srry.

as for the discussions, this is pretty light debate for the art world. we're going to have to be able to justify ourselves in the face of greater criticism than this on the way to achieving legitimacy (if that's something our movement really wants as a whole). i'm impressed that the discussion on stankard's page was able to stay civil and informative as long as it has (with the exception of some possible shady editing). when/if it devolves into uneducated stick-poking, we've lost.

[Icarus]

What the hell is face book everytime someone posts a link I just scratch my head and wonder am I really missing something here? Whatever

I know a guy who refused to get on facebook for the longest time, and his friends mounted a campaign to get him on their, and he started to worry that he was missing some great big party that all of his friends who are on facebook were in on. So finally he joined, and he said really the only difference is that he now knows what a majority of his friends had for dinner last night.

[Icarus]

I honestly didn't find the article to be upsetting. I thought it was kind of interesting. Remember, this is the "studio art glass" people who for years have completely laughed at pipes and refused to call them art. Now they are grudgingly starting to realize that it is. Don't expect them to be happy about it, but still take the props they're giving, even if they aren't extending them out very far.

[menty666]

I thought it was a bit annoying how the author would pay a compliment, then promptly retreat from it over and over. What if it were something else? Say cars, for example. Then the article might contain:

"The final product is the result of a combination of careful engineering, tested ergonomic design, and functional aesthetic, but it's hard to disregard the thought that this is a beautiful killing machine"

I see a lot of the pieces posted on here and while there's some level of generic productioness to some of it, there are far many more pieces that are examples of outstanding, gorgeous, and innovative color work and careful and well thought out sculpture. Not to mention that if you have half an inkling into what goes into the making of some of these pieces, you have to be in awe of the planning and deft skill that goes into their creation.

Frankly I'm more appreciative of my Oxo can opener, which is useful AND stylish than something that merely sits and collects dust.

People don't consider the design aspects of things anymore, be it the subtle curve of a toilet seat to ensure it doesn't pinch, to the distance between the steering wheel to the turn indicator knob, or the design of the body of a refrigerator to hide the air intake for the compressor motor rather than leaving the consumer with a practical, industrial monstrosity.

Just because something has a purpose in life (other than artisitc/spiritual enrichment) doesn't make it any less artistic in it's design and creation.

[mearsglassworks]

i'm with Icarus on this one. at least some of these "artists" are maybe considering pipes as art, where as in the past it was comical to them. I think the pipes have pushed the artistic side of boro glass and will continue to do so.:chilling:

[schmoinkel]

He starts out a bit condesending but by the end seems to be cheering us on. Personally I could care less what the "art" world thinks, I seems pipers are doing just fine without the recognition. More money is the biggest thing that would come from an over all exceptance of glass pipe art.

Fuck the fame, but thats just me

Scott

[Din]

I'm not sure if I read that as being condescending or non committal. I repeatedly got the impression that the author didn't really want to say anything, one way or the other. I also got the impression that they thought they were handling something new "Functional art, art or object?". Really, I think they failed to highlight the pipe movements actual obstacles in the struggle for legitimacy, and seemed even to be surprised that we might entertain such a notion.
Whereas I'm glad this sort of debate is starting to happen outside of the pipe world, this particular article was less than interesting.
Still, they did manage to highlight the artists and aspect of the art I like, and I consider to be the forefront.

[Riley]

something the article failed to pose or ask the artists was....

where this is taking us, will it always be that is is functional, or is it the fact that glassblowing costs money and we find ourselves in an art field that pays us to explore the reaches of our mind and our medium.

i thought the article was smart and not at all condescending, it poses questions that stir within us the desire to answer. therefore it was a complete success.

[Uriel]

I think Stankards only interest is to increase his revenue by moving into the high end pipe field. employ a shitload of prodo workers with stankard stamps, boom the next chong..

[Icarus]

I think Stankards only interest is to increase his revenue by moving into the high end pipe field. employ a shitload of prodo workers with stankard stamps, boom the next chong..

Hmmm, interesting.

[Robert Mickelsen]

A book review in GLASS QUARTERLY! In my opinion the reviewer concedes a somewhat grudging admiration of the perceived freedom of the artists included in the book, but that is just my opinion. The important thing is that the book was noticed and written about. Let people have their opinions. Just being there is a big deal and recognition of the importance of pipes to contemporary glass.

The key phrase here echos what I have been saying to pipers for years: "What they are doing is exploring a space outside the typical confines of contemporary art – one in which craft, function, and aesthetics blend gleefully, sometimes in tension, sometimes harmoniously. Here’s hoping they don’t agree to a general program anytime soon."

Forget trying to get into the "art world". Just keep making great work and the "art world" will come to you.

[p.j.]

A book review in GLASS QUARTERLY! In my opinion the reviewer concedes a somewhat grudging admiration of the perceived freedom of the artists included in the book, but that is just my opinion. The important thing is that the book was noticed and written about. Let people have their opinions. Just being there is a big deal and recognition of the importance of pipes to contemporary glass.

The key phrase here echos what I have been saying to pipers for years: "What they are doing is exploring a space outside the typical confines of contemporary art – one in which craft, function, and aesthetics blend gleefully, sometimes in tension, sometimes harmoniously. Here’s hoping they don’t agree to a general program anytime soon."

Forget trying to get into the "art world". Just keep making great work and the "art world" will come to you.

i am glad you come here to talk with us. your opinion of the pipe/art discussion comes from a fine art perspective and we all appreciate the support you give to our community.

[Riley]

i second that, and this is no knob polishing, down to earth mofo RM !!

[LTD]

I think Stankards only interest is to increase his revenue by moving into the high end pipe field. employ a shitload of prodo workers with stankard stamps, boom the next chong..

Umm... I doubt that. Paul has no interest in making pipes as far as I know. His paper weights are AMAZING!!

[jac1961]

Isn't the establishment in any field including art always doubtful and somewhat threatened by the younger and more innovative? The ones that are true professionals will accept and embrace the new ways if it truly is worthy, in this case artistic. The ones that will never acknowledge the quality are just unsure of their own abilities and position.

As a collector, I firmly believe that pipe art is pushing the envelope of all glass and the majority of techniques and styles being developed will eventually spread to all of glass... but that's just me.

[menty666]

Umm... I doubt that. Paul has no interest in making pipes as far as I know. His paper weights are AMAZING!!

Maybe he's going to get into functional paper weigh....wait...they are functional. Hmm..

[Robert Mickelsen]

i am glad you come here to talk with us. your opinion of the pipe/art discussion comes from a fine art perspective and we all appreciate the support you give to our community.

I would take issue with the idea that my opinions come "from a fine art perspective". I do not believe I have either the background or knowledge to state anything of the sort. My opinions are simply my opinions. My work is just my work.

I think that directions in art are driven by the culture, not by critics, and that opinion is supported by history. Look at rock music. It was hated by the established music of the times. It was put down and denigrated by everyone except the kids who liked it. From that place it took over music as we know it. This is not to say that the same thing is happening in glass art, but if you think for one moment that the pipe angle in glass creation is insignificant or unimportant (as many of my colleagues do) you have your head in the sand.

But this is *just my opinion*.

- RAM

[SAWstudioZ]

^^ Your opinions are cherished!

[Dragonharper]

Okay, I'm new as a glass artist in fact I haven't produced anything that I would consider art at this point. However, my opinion is that if you are creating from the depth of your soul, even prodo work, then you are creating art. One of my other passions, photography, has been struggling since it's birth to be considered art. It is mostly, I won't use widely, accepted as art Today but it still has it's detractors. As a musician every time I play I put my emotions, where I am at that moment, into the music this is what makes it art, not that an artist created it. I create because I have no choice, "create or die", I look forward to the day that my skill level is up to the challenge of freezing my soul in the glass.

The definition of "Fine Art" comes and goes, most of the revered Renaissance Nudes were just porn at the time, art lasts forever because the artist poured their heart and soul into the work.