Gas station consignment

[mouseclone]

I guess one of the best ways is to make money without the need to put up any money up front. That Is what I did with a local gas station down the road. I started off with 5 pieces 2 weekends a go.

This past weekend they called be back and told me that they has all sold and that I needed to come and get my money and bring them more pipes. That was cool.

So I didn't really have to do much work. The inventory was stuff that had been sitting on the shelf for about 3 or 4 months. It was also some of the first pipes that I made. They only brought in $3 each, but for the slightly miss shappened, slightly bowl push skew, and other things that would just make them hard to sell else where, I will take the $3 a piece.

Currently I'm just hoping that I'm breaking even on things. I know that they might be worth more if I was more consistent. Right now, if $3 will cover gas and glass I am happy about that. I don't think that it will though. Maybe in a little bit I will be able to tell them that they should go up on the price because of the quality of the pieces and that will make it more worth my time.

[ReLo442]

Most of the time the stuff i see in the gas station is pretty shitty stuff that people only tend to buy if they have * tobacco* and no pipe and want a quick fix. People in gas stations arent going to be interested in buying $20+ pipes. At least not in my opinion. I have sold alot of pipes for $3, $4 $5 and so on and most of them were just as u described, mis-shapen, "i learned with this pipe" type of deals.
But that being said, i would just talk to the guy and tell him u can give him better stuff but the price is going to go up. Make sure you tell him how much HE can sell them for so he can see the benefit he will get from purchasing higher quality stuff from you.

just my 2 cents...since u didnt ask a question anyway haha

[LTD]

Great to hear of a gas station not selling Indian or chinese glass. I got my local gas and go to carry some of my work. It took some badgering, but now it moves well...

[daveabr]

the gas stations here are full of indian pieces. the college kids love it. it hurts local shop owners and blowers quite a bit though. not to mention, they literally have it on display right next to the candy and gum. kinda obvious who they are pushin it to. oh well, not much that can be done about that.

[mouseclone]

The gas station was selling stuff that I would have called indian/china glass. Dude only had one though, and told me that the other guy didn't come by any more. The ones that he was selling were thin.

I have thought about thinning up some of the pieces that I sell him, just because of glass cost, but I also want practice at thicker pieces. So I think that I will just sell my seconds to him.

I'm not worried about getting paid for my time atm. I'm really just looking to cover the cost of materials.

The guy also said that he was going to see if he couldn't get me into some of the other stores that "they" own. I figured that would be good, and if I keep give quality pieces for the most part then I can go up on price with them. They and I can both make more money.

[steven p selchow]

The first time I saw glass pipes in a gas station was in Florida, right on the counter at checkout, behind glass case of course, wouldn't be surprised if "operation gas station" is next. $3 seems to me, even old crappy stuff laying around to cheap, even the short drive, the glass alone and gases to make it, you can't be making mich of anything. but start making the better stuff, and a good marketing sell to them, and your on your way.

steve

[Dom]

So 15 bucks cover gas and glass for two weeks for you?

[Riley]

they probably could sell more "roses". seems to be what most "off brand" stations around these parts shell out.

[MPGB]

I tired consignment to "get in" a shop and while that worked for a short time, it failed long term. Trying to keep up with inventory was a pain. Then when I did go to collect he was always short on cash even though I came every week at the same time. When I asked for cash upfront he got all moody and I never went back even though I still had some chillums on the shelf.

IMO don't do consignment unless it's a one time thing to see if the owner likes and can sell your glass.

[mouseclone]

So 15 bucks cover gas and glass for two weeks for you?

nope it doesn't cover glass and gas for me. it beats not having the extra $15 though. Personally I feel that they are worth more, but the station is only selling them for $6.

If they sell out again this week, sell the 10 more I put on consignment, then I will talk to them about going up on the price. $4 or $5 would be awesome and would at least pay for the supplies to make the pipes, of course making them thinner would as well I just don't want to cheap out.

---------------------------------------

The main reason I wanted to sell to them was because they had glass display cases in the store. I really want to get a few pieces in the glass cases and see how they do. Give the people going in there more of a selection. I'm not sure about all the laws and stuff, but it really isn't my problem because it is not my store. I'm sure that they could make it my problem really quickly though. So it might not be a good idea.

If things go south, then they go south. I'm sure that I will be upset if they do, but it is also an experience as well. I don't have room for 100 or 200 or 500 ok pipes that all look kinda the same. So if I loose on it, then I loose on it. I'm going to loose on it not matter what right now because I'm still learning. Though I can make one with fume in about 20 minutes using the natty now.

[raven sun]

I guess one of the best ways is to make money without the need to put up any money up front.... if $3 will cover gas and glass I am happy about that. I don't think that it will though.
so, actually, you did front the whole transaction, then ended up in the red...

i have seen this a hundred times now... newbies continually undercutting the market until they are selling shit for a loss and the only one making a profit is the store owner... then when the money runs out, newbie quits to get a 'real job'... except now the store owner is hooked on $3 shit pipes and wont buy anything higher priced from a professional blower so they end up getting some chinese or indian crap that was subsidized by corrupt government and eventually theres no way to compete working here in the states...

if theres anyone here making a profit off of $3 pipes, lets hear about it...

BTW, when i first started, i sold all my crap glass to friends or on the street or at garage sales or just gave it away... i resisted the urge to get into a store with my janky first pieces and it made me more eager to progress to a level of skill where i could feel proud to have my stuff for sale to the general public... wheres the motivation to get better if you get paid for just any lump you produce?

[Icarus]

Great points Raven Sun. Mouseclone, I think you're shooting yourself in the foot here. I understand it's a way to get rid of some shitty pieces, but sometimes it's worth it to go hungry for a while. This may be one of those times.

[Dom]

so, actually, you did front the whole transaction, then ended up in the red...

i have seen this a hundred times now... newbies continually undercutting the market until they are selling shit for a loss and the only one making a profit is the store owner... then when the money runs out, newbie quits to get a 'real job'... except now the store owner is hooked on $3 shit pipes and wont buy anything higher priced from a professional blower so they end up getting some chinese or indian crap that was subsidized by corrupt government and eventually theres no way to compete working here in the states...

if theres anyone here making a profit off of $3 pipes, lets hear about it...

BTW, when i first started, i sold all my crap glass to friends or on the street or at garage sales or just gave it away... i resisted the urge to get into a store with my janky first pieces and it made me more eager to progress to a level of skill where i could feel proud to have my stuff for sale to the general public... wheres the motivation to get better if you get paid for just any lump you produce?

Very well put my man.

[Bo Diddles]

so, actually, you did front the whole transaction, then ended up in the red...

i have seen this a hundred times now... newbies continually undercutting the market until they are selling shit for a loss and the only one making a profit is the store owner... then when the money runs out, newbie quits to get a 'real job'... except now the store owner is hooked on $3 shit pipes and wont buy anything higher priced from a professional blower so they end up getting some chinese or indian crap that was subsidized by corrupt government and eventually theres no way to compete working here in the states...

if theres anyone here making a profit off of $3 pipes, lets hear about it...

BTW, when i first started, i sold all my crap glass to friends or on the street or at garage sales or just gave it away... i resisted the urge to get into a store with my janky first pieces and it made me more eager to progress to a level of skill where i could feel proud to have my stuff for sale to the general public... wheres the motivation to get better if you get paid for just any lump you produce?

Bingo.

[dOprah Winfrey]

[QUOTE=raven sun;538931]
if theres anyone here making a profit off of $3 pipes, lets hear about it...

QUOTE]

I've made decent profit off $3.00 pipes before. Fumed bats, that I usually sell for $5-$7 each but the shop owner bought 100 of me at once so I cut him a deal because I needed scratch fast for a new torch. That being said what I describe as "decent profit" might not be what you all would call decent profit.

10 fumed bats an hour.
20 bats per $3.00 tube of china 19mm extra heavy wall
Half a tank of oxy

$12.00 for glass
$7.50 for oxy
$.50 for silver

$300 for the 100 pipes
-$20 for materials
$280 profit for about 10 hours work.
$28/hr

I will say though, I would have never sold the so cheap except that I NEEDED the money for my new torch, and I swear to god I will never spend 10 consecutive hours making fumed bats ever again in my life.

So its not practicle or good for ones sanity, but I've made alright money off $3.00 pipes before.

Oh yeah and to the person who started this thread, good job getting work into a store. Its always a good feeling to be able to make back some of the money you've spent on glass with glass. I'm sure as the quality gets better, the owner will understand paying more for the pieces.

[Harry Paratesteez]

so your consigning 10 3$ pipes at a time?.......
this owener can't come up with 30 bucks and just buy the outright?
sham wow

[ALIEN!]

In time grasshopper, you will learn never to consign pipes. Consignment is for people like Robert Mickelson that deal with upstanding dealers and galleries, not for pipemakers that deal with shady headshop owners. It might be working ok for now, but be warned, once you start making real good quality stuff, never do consignment.

And what Harry Paratesteez said hit it on the head. The guy couldn't come up with $30, that's shady as hell... watch the same guy jack ya on a big order of better quality stuff down the road, I know, its happened to me and others I know. My policy is PAY UP SUCKA! Things have been good since.

[mouseclone]

@Raven Sun: you might be upset about the $3 pipes. You might say well that just gives them the op to buy $3 pipe from china. IT IS A GOD DAMN FUCKEN GAS STATION for christ sake. The people buying pipes from a gas station are not looking for an Art piece, they aren't looking for quality, and they sure as hell are not caring if the pipe came from China or is made in the US. These people don't give a fuck where their glass comes from. You should be happy that a gas station is willing to buy pipes that were crafted here in the states instead of over seas. The pipes are seconds, and it is something that I would sell to anyone. There are some that I just give away to friends because I would feel bad if I took one cent for the pipe.

Thankfully there are some gas stations that are ran by Indians that will buy locally blow glass and help support a beginner. I'm not lowering my standards, I'm just trying to support the hobby and see what I can make of it.
--------------------------------------------------------

You all might be right about the consignment stuff at the gas station. I might be setting myself up to get ripped off, and that might be what happened to the last guy that was selling pipes there and why he doesn't come around any more. Then again, the other guy might have gotten really good and moved on to greener fields.

If the 10, that are currently there, are sold out this weekend; then it might be time to ask for money upfront. That way I can't get ripped off. 15 pipes in 2 weeks should be a good bet that they will sell to people in the area.

I'm also going to ask for $4 on the next set of pipes. I feel that the quality is getting better and that I should be getting at least $4 for them. it doesn't matter if they are consistently the same exact shape, they are consistently the same quality. the shaping will get hammered down soon enough.

[raven sun]

@Raven Sun: you might be upset about the $3 pipes.
not really, except in a 'global village' sort of way, meaning, i believe this sort of thing brings down the standard of living for everybody eventually because, unfortunately, youre not the only one who does this...


The people buying pipes from a gas station are not looking for an Art piece, they aren't looking for quality, and they sure as hell are not caring if the pipe came from China or is made in the US. These people don't give a fuck where their glass comes from.
then those losers can smoke out of a fucking beer can, FUCK THEM...


I'm not lowering my standards, I'm just trying to support the hobby and see what I can make of it.
sorry to interrupt your hobby time but when i first started i always considered this a job/money maker and to that end i busted ass EVERY day for months making shit for the guy that was teaching me while i lived on the street and peoples couches because my mentor was putting all the money i made for him back into the business...

im starting to get the feeling that a lot of the posters on here are "hobbyests" and are churning out shit to boost their ego and dont care about the glass business and quality standards because they have a "day job"... well, go ahead and have a hobby, but dont then turn around and pretend to do business by selling shitty pipes for too little and help to ruin the market for those of us that use glassblowing to pay the bills...

[TwoTimes]

Keep it up man, the more you make the quicker you will be able to do it and you will notice the quality go up as you gain new skills. Try to set goals for your self and break them, get your glass out to other stores and work to keep them supplied as (hopefully) your work sells. Learn what shops around you want and work towards making it, good luck.

[Icarus]

sorry to interrupt your hobby time but when i first started i always considered this a job/money maker and to that end i busted ass EVERY day for months making shit for the guy that was teaching me while i lived on the street and peoples couches because my mentor was putting all the money i made for him back into the business...

im starting to get the feeling that a lot of the posters on here are "hobbyests" and are churning out shit to boost their ego and dont care about the glass business and quality standards because they have a "day job"... well, go ahead and have a hobby, but dont then turn around and pretend to do business by selling shitty pipes for too little and help to ruin the market for those of us that use glassblowing to pay the bills...

This post right here should be it's own sticky thread right at the top of the forum. This coming from someone that considers himself a hobbyist. When you undercut other glassworkers and set prices really low so they barely meet your material costs, you do yourself and everyone else (with the exception of China and India) a disservice. Seriously. Throw your janky pieces in a drawer and laugh at them as you get better. It's not worth your money or time to sell them, their value to you is in learning. Some may be worth selling, and go ahead and sell them, but at the learning stage, you're expecting to have your cake and eat it too, which is not how it works. Make some pendants to make some cash (by the way, I've never ever had to sell a pendant for three dollars, even when I did a bulk order) and keep cranking out pieces the rest of the time. At some point you'll be good enough that you can ask respectable sums for your work.

Pay your dues man. We all gotta do it.

[3ripmin]

+1 to raven sun!

its sick how it used to be the $5 guys 10 years ago and now its the $3 guys. jesus. once youre the $3 pipe guy youll always be the $3 pipe guy. have fun.

[mouseclone]

Guess there is not really any point in posting here any more. it would seem that because you slept on a couch while torching it is my fault. 10 years ago I make 21k a year working on servers. that was about $10 an hour for computer/server work, and I was a consultant working for a company that was charging $125/hr. So don't get me wrong, I have had my fair share of noodles and shit.

Yeah it is a hobby, or a part time job. I'm able to spend 2 or 3 hours a night torching. So I normally get about 20 to 30 hours a week in, counting the weekends. It is not like I'm slacking on trying to get better skills.

There are many people out there that would never spend $1 on a pipe that I make right now. Why? mainly because they don't like it, the shape is not what they are looking for either. I can say that I have seen people pass over the $50 and $100 pipes for the same reasons.

I'm not sorry that a $3 pipe hurts you. It doesn't hurt me, I can use the extra change to help pay for the new propane regulator that I had to buy yesterday. So my "hobby" seems to be costing a chunk of change that .. wait.. that I spent at the local glass shop. Strange.. maybe it would have been better spent in your neck of the woods? Should I have order my supplies from your local township?

Personally I feel that the gas station is a beginners market. One that i'm willing to exploit. Just like you will exploit people. You might sell a $10 pipe to a shop. That same $10 pipe the shop will sell for $20 or $30. You will take that same pipe and sell it on the streets for the same price as the shop because you do not want to under cut them. If you make a sale, then you have exploited the retail pricing market.

You can be upset about the china market all you want to. You cannot blame me for the market being the way it is though. They didn't start selling china glass because someone else was selling pipes for $6 at a gas station. They sell then because there is a market for them. It is a market that you are not willing or want to get into.

Lets face it.. You are just "too good" to sell gas station pipes. Well I'm not, at least not yet. I'm just good enough to sell gas station pipes. When I get better, I will be to good for gas station pipes. Until that time I'm going to continue trying to recoope as much as I can.

So why don't you make this a sticky note as well: Unless you have countless time and money, you shouldn't bother blowing glass. You shouldn't sell anything in any way your first 2 years because everything that you make is shit and the people that have been ding this for a long time deserve that you be on their skill level before you are able to sell anything. Also don't try to compete with China or do anything out of the ordinary because it hurts everyone. If you can't make a profit on a piece of glass, then you should toss it into a trunk and dump it into the water, or simply give it away. In no way should you attempt to recover any of your expenses in selling a pipe for cost of materials or less.

-peace
I'm out.

[Icarus]

Points well taken. But at the same time, have you ever heard the story of the prostitute who started giving blowjobs for $5, but raised her price to $50 once she got good at it?

Neither have I.

[marcel]

Hey mouseclone,

saw your in atlanta. Go find Alex at 42 degrees, i think its in Atlanta. He really helped set the market up to work as well as it does. Think Headdies.com... Alex is very patient and logical, understands the market as well as anyone i know. Tell him I sent you and go buy him lunch at an indian restaurant. I promise it will be more than worth your time.

Anyhow, it's pathetic how easy people find it to abdicate responsibility for their actions because of an immediate personal need. Is it logical to think things are just the way they are because they are? Traced back one step at a time, every positive and negative aspect of almost everything is governed by individual people making individual choices.

Im no angel myself but the "its not my responsiblity cause i'm just one person" argument is like "turning lights off is pointless cause it hardly saves me any money".

I don't care about the 3 dollar pipe too much, it certainly can exist, but it sounds like you could benefit from some good marketing advice. If you actually take alex to lunch and dont feel like it was worth it, I will make you a pipe.

Cheers!

[Icarus]

If you actually take alex to lunch and dont feel like it was worth it, I will make you a pipe.


Now that is a deal right there.

[Riley]

^^^^

icarus and marcel, bringing the knowledge in a reasonable and non-offensive tone. props

[mouseclone]

@marcel: I don't have an issue meeting Alex or taking him to lunch. In fact I have worked at 42 degrees twice now. Alex is a good guy, the part that i have talked with him. I'm not consistent enough to even get placed in 42 degrees. You have to be able to spin 6 at a minimum of the same type to get looked at for prodo @42 degrees. I love 42 degrees. I think that their standards are up there. I give that shop much respect for keeping a high standard.
-----------------------------------
@Icarus: sure I have. Everyone has. Though you are talking about someone that is doing sexual favors, where others make and sell pipes, while others dig ditches. They are all selling themselves for nothing more than a dollar bill. If the story of making more never happened then people would never get a pay raise.
-----------------------------------
As far as business goes, there is nothing wrong with dumping inventory to make space for things that will sell. Even if you sell it for a loss, you still are able to get some of your investment back. That is what I'm doing, just trying to get some of my investment back.

What is good about all of this? The good thing is that I'm just about out of pipes that I made over 6 months ago. the ones that even sold after showing them 2 or 3 times in little five points (where 42 degrees is). After showing the pipes that I had made, I sold one of them. Why? because they were not worth $10 as far as quality goes.

You all might be pissed off about them being $3, but in my eyes I'm glad to see them gone. I only have to look at the ones that are sitting on a shelf now. I also like the thought that they were bought by people that were going to toss them the day the bought them. The pipes were not anything that was bad ass by any standard (though a friend of mine really liked some of them).

[dOprah Winfrey]

Though I haven't been in the game for nearly as long as 99% of the people posting on this thread (less than 6 months) I must say that my personal experience differs from some of the things I read here. I sold my first batch of pipes for $2.00 a piece. Now I go into the same shops and sell pieces that take me less time to make for $15.00. I've never had a shop bitch about my price increases.

I can see where you are all coming from when you mention new lampworkers undercutting everyones prices and getting the shops used to in this case $3 pipes. But I can guarantee that a pipe sold for $3 by a new blower won't be anywhere near as nice as a pipe sold for whatever price by an experienced one. There are shops around here that still have $3 pipes on there shelfs that I sold them months ago, yet they seem to to piss through the nicer and 500% more expensive ones.

I noticed that by bringing the $3 pipes to a store when your first starting out can be a good thing because the shops will be happy to have a few pieces to fill a price point that most experienced glassblowers won't touch, and they will be able to see your progression and understand why the prices continue to go up. If a shop wants $3 pipes, they're going to get them, either from a new blower or from overseas. Sometimes a janky pipe is only worth $3 wholesale.

I started lampworking with a fixed sum of money and absolutly no outside income for reasons I'd care not to explain here. If I didn't sell those janky $2.00 pipes when I started I wouldn't have been able to afford lampworking after my first month.

Just my observations...

ps. congrats again on the sale

[J Howard]

tell you what... we'll make you a deal



sell them for what ever you want, just call them seconds

[Shatner]

Guess there is not really any point in posting here any more. it would seem that because you slept on a couch while torching it is my fault. 10 years ago I make 21k a year working on servers. that was about $10 an hour for computer/server work, and I was a consultant working for a company that was charging $125/hr. So don't get me wrong, I have had my fair share of noodles and shit.

Yeah it is a hobby, or a part time job. I'm able to spend 2 or 3 hours a night torching. So I normally get about 20 to 30 hours a week in, counting the weekends. It is not like I'm slacking on trying to get better skills.

There are many people out there that would never spend $1 on a pipe that I make right now. Why? mainly because they don't like it, the shape is not what they are looking for either. I can say that I have seen people pass over the $50 and $100 pipes for the same reasons.

I'm not sorry that a $3 pipe hurts you. It doesn't hurt me, I can use the extra change to help pay for the new propane regulator that I had to buy yesterday. So my "hobby" seems to be costing a chunk of change that .. wait.. that I spent at the local glass shop. Strange.. maybe it would have been better spent in your neck of the woods? Should I have order my supplies from your local township?

Personally I feel that the gas station is a beginners market. One that i'm willing to exploit. Just like you will exploit people. You might sell a $10 pipe to a shop. That same $10 pipe the shop will sell for $20 or $30. You will take that same pipe and sell it on the streets for the same price as the shop because you do not want to under cut them. If you make a sale, then you have exploited the retail pricing market.

You can be upset about the china market all you want to. You cannot blame me for the market being the way it is though. They didn't start selling china glass because someone else was selling pipes for $6 at a gas station. They sell then because there is a market for them. It is a market that you are not willing or want to get into.

Lets face it.. You are just "too good" to sell gas station pipes. Well I'm not, at least not yet. I'm just good enough to sell gas station pipes. When I get better, I will be to good for gas station pipes. Until that time I'm going to continue trying to recoope as much as I can.

So why don't you make this a sticky note as well: Unless you have countless time and money, you shouldn't bother blowing glass. You shouldn't sell anything in any way your first 2 years because everything that you make is shit and the people that have been ding this for a long time deserve that you be on their skill level before you are able to sell anything. Also don't try to compete with China or do anything out of the ordinary because it hurts everyone. If you can't make a profit on a piece of glass, then you should toss it into a trunk and dump it into the water, or simply give it away. In no way should you attempt to recover any of your expenses in selling a pipe for cost of materials or less.

-peace
I'm out.


Humility. You need it. If your skill level doesn't allow you to sell a pipe except to consign it at a gas station for $3 says that you shouldn't be selling pipes. Period.

I undertsand that the $3/pipe helps, but it's really not that much. Use this time to practice. Take a class. Learn exactly what it is that you are doing to make different shapes, get different colors out of the same rod, etc.

You are doing a diservice to yourself and all other pipemakers. Everyone has to get to know the ropes and get a hang of it before they start getting their work into stores. And please, take no offense, but it sounds like you're still getting the hang of stuff. Take the time that you are selling them and put it to more torch time. It's what you should be focusing on right now.

I really wish you the best in this venture. It's fucking hard, and only the truely 100% dedicated don't quit. I hope you can someday make a business out of your art.

[LTD]

+1

[TlkQ]

See.. I think his fumey spoons would get $5-$7 in any of the shops in Asheville.. I don't think it's a matter of the work not being good enough.. It seems like it's more of an issue of confidence.

[J Howard]

if it were easy, it'd be called your mom

[mouseclone]

I don't know how to say anything else. I'm either going to look like a whiny ass little bitch or something worse.

here is a piece that I'm thinking about selling for $35 [link (http://twitpic.com/2teqmv)]. It is of decent size. A little longer than the bic and the guy wanted a larger bowl. This is close to the largest piece that I have made that didn't just fall apart in the process of making it.

maybe that is more the price range that you all were hoping that I was selling pieces for. Personally I don't know if it is worth 35$ retail or not. Some of the things that I have seen in stores I do not feel are as good, but that could be me just not liking the final product.

I was stoked about the gas station deal a few weeks ago. Not so much any more. The first 5 went like hot cakes. That I know of, the 9 of the 10 are still sitting there. guess I will give it another week or so and see how things turn out.

Currently I have about 18 or so left. I'm out of Oxy, and not sure that I need to get anymore as I might not have a kiln much longer (i have a loaner). Before last see that would have been fine, but I had $200+ worth of power tools stolen from my garage, $250 went to getting dead trees cut down (very important), and I had to replace my propane regulator (I also bought some more tools while I was at Flame Tree).

So not to worry about the $3 pipe messing people up, and a disservice to the pipe making community, and all that jazz. It doesn't look like I will be making much for a while. I would say at least a month or so.

thanks for the kind words, the bashing and the criticism (constructive and destructive).

Mouse

[mouseclone]

if it were easy, it'd be called your mom

Which personality?

[Icarus]

Currently I have about 18 or so left. I'm out of Oxy, and not sure that I need to get anymore as I might not have a kiln much longer (i have a loaner). Before last see that would have been fine, but I had $200+ worth of power tools stolen from my garage, $250 went to getting dead trees cut down (very important), and I had to replace my propane regulator (I also bought some more tools while I was at Flame Tree).



Mouse, as janky as it sounds, go to your garden store and get some vermiculite and a metal bucket. You can still work, throw the work in the vermiculite when your done, and batch anneal later. I actually do this a lot, since I only get to work for a few hours at a time, and it's often times not worth it to have a kiln come up to temp for three of five hours work, especially when I'm mostly doing pendants, some onies, etc...

Just give it a bit of flame annealing before you throw it in the the vermiculite, so it's entering at pretty close to a uniform temperature. I rarely if ever lose anything, but at the same time, I don't do complex multi-part work where I would have to kiln pieces in stages. And if you do have to throw it in the vermiculite to change tanks, whatever, just try to make sure everything is melted in, stick it in deep, then wipe it off with a kevlar glove or dollar bill or something before you stick it back in the flame (far in the back part at first, then moving closer to the face of the torch as your piece reaches temp).

It's not the most awesome way to do things, but it can be done, and can get you by when you are without a kiln (though, you know, still batch anneal before selling it).

Sorry to hear about the power tools. There is a special place in hell for bike thieves, people who dress their pets up, and assholes who just walk into someones garage and take something.

Good luck man I hope it all works out, it would be a shame for you to not be able to work for a while.

[melter skelter]

... I wasn't cringing about you selling your first pipes for 3 bucks. Hell thats what I used to go down to Venice beach for.... sell off the first few batches of jank to keep it going. It's tough in the beginning, even more so now than it was in the 90s.

It's your whole proposed future business relationship with this gas station dude that i'm shakin my head at. He's doesn't care about your glass career or you.... Aim a tad higher and you might suprise yourself =)

[berning]

^^^ i started without a kiln and used the same tech till i got a kiln. going to a buddies house to batch anneal things when i had a full load.

as far as the 3 dollar spoons. i was in a similar position not to long ago. i felt the same way , any dollar helps. i just pulled my box of seconds out, and i wouldn't give thse away, i think i'm gonna give 'em to a friend that has a big tank with one oscar and nothing else.

takew a few of those spoons , put 'em in a box and pull 'em out in a year. dig this thread up and repost how ya feel.

sorry to hear about the thievery

[mearsglassworks]

My teacher (back in 98') said to NEVER sell a piece for less than your wholesale price. Even if it's friends or family. Look at it like this: if I wholesale my onie for ten dollars and it retails for 20. And a good friend asks me for a onie I don't sell it to him for $5 or anything less then 10. If I did he might start to think that $5 is the actually value of the piece, and try to get that price throughout the future. Instead I normally just give my friend the onie for free, or charge them wholesale. It's either wholesale or free, I NEVER sell a piece for less than wholesale. Don't want to devalue your work.

I keep my blemished pieces for my friends aswell, or if there nice blems I'll kick em to someone who helps me with something or such. Also give alot of blems to the young broke kids that work at the head shops I sell to. This is also a good practice, these kids sell my works everyday(get min. wage) and are on my VIP list. They will also brag on your work more when there using a free bubb that I kicked em at home. I also use my blems (a cobblers son has no shoes right). Occasionally if I have a nice blem that maybe just has a scar or very small defect (i'm kinda picky) I might sell it for 1/2 of wholesale, making sure that the cust. understands that it's a blem and would normally cost much more.

About the gas stations, I recently had a local Indian gas station owner call me asking if I could make him pieces. Blew my mind, I met him and I'm gonna do a special line for the gas station (5 minite/$5 spoons and such). After thinking on it I decided that if a Indian gas station owner is gonna buy local I better not turn him down, maybe we can start a trend.

[Shatner]

Mouse, as janky as it sounds, go to your garden store and get some vermiculite and a metal bucket. You can still work, throw the work in the vermiculite when your done, and batch anneal later. I actually do this a lot, since I only get to work for a few hours at a time, and it's often times not worth it to have a kiln come up to temp for three of five hours work, especially when I'm mostly doing pendants, some onies, etc...

Just give it a bit of flame annealing before you throw it in the the vermiculite, so it's entering at pretty close to a uniform temperature. I rarely if ever lose anything, but at the same time, I don't do complex multi-part work where I would have to kiln pieces in stages. And if you do have to throw it in the vermiculite to change tanks, whatever, just try to make sure everything is melted in, stick it in deep, then wipe it off with a kevlar glove or dollar bill or something before you stick it back in the flame (far in the back part at first, then moving closer to the face of the torch as your piece reaches temp).

It's not the most awesome way to do things, but it can be done, and can get you by when you are without a kiln (though, you know, still batch anneal before selling it).

Sorry to hear about the power tools. There is a special place in hell for bike thieves, people who dress their pets up, and assholes who just walk into someones garage and take something.

Good luck man I hope it all works out, it would be a shame for you to not be able to work for a while.

Good idea Icurus. Mind it i take what you said and add on?

Don't just toss 'em in a cold vermiculite tray. Get a crock pot an set it on high, or the highest it'll go without smellin. Usualy that' 'high' for me.And then let them cool

My first two years were crok pot years. It took me untill the second year to figure this out. Be carful, different crock pots hit diferet temps.

[LTD]

And keep the lid on it. You DO NOT want to be breathing that stuff.

[J Howard]

honestly, i don't even bother with vermiculite or fiberfrax. vermiculite is pulled from the earth in the same mines as asbestos..... (i'll pass but thanks), and fiberfrax makes me itch.


when i first started out, i had no kiln at all, and learned how to flame anneal things. it was a rough start, but i really learned alot about how to put things together right. in fact i still have some one inch marble made with exotic colors that are still fine. obviously i have a kiln now, but i still flame anneal everything before running it through the kiln- even if the kiln is hot (i just don't do the full cool down, more like a full warm up to 1100 before it goes in)

the trick to flame annealing is to warm everything back up to the same temp. (using a ton of propane for a big bushy yellow flame): you can tell by looking over your didymiums at the sodium flare. if it's all coming off at the same rate and color, you're in the right spot. now turn down the flame slowly until the glass is soot covered: a sign that it's passed below 1000. put your work together correctly, and it won't crack. i believe this skill is invaluable, and is worth ruining some work over to learn it right.

[NUBBLET]

quit that shit or youll be the 3$ pipe guy and thats it . Thankfully my lesson was at 5$ so less to eat and then I moved so a price jump was not an issue as the new shops hadnt seen the old price . Its hard to get out from behind when all your time is burnt making cheap ass pieces you lose or just break even with

[mouseclone]

Well I stopped by the gas station the other day and they still have some of my stuff that I gave them 3 weeks ago. I guess I should have made shittier pipes for them. Damn things have a hard time breaking.

So I think that I'm done with that run of business. Even more so after this weekend. I sold 15 to one head shop at good prices. The gas station did its job. Now all of my wonky ones are for frit or the trash.

[Kevin Bumble]

noice happy ending

[l33t:weasel]

my friend john who owns a shop just showed me his 3$ american pipes. 25mm china color tube (available in 10 colors) ... no shaping really, just puff out the head. pop 2 holes push the bowl and mouthpiece. they are made by pros and completely consistent, w/'american' sized holes. even tho its only 50cents of glass i was still pretty disturbed. no chance i could compete with that.EVER .. but i felt a little better when he handed me the check for 500$ of my glass @ my asking price

[po-boy]

so, actually, you did front the whole transaction, then ended up in the red...

i have seen this a hundred times now... newbies continually undercutting the market until they are selling shit for a loss and the only one making a profit is the store owner... then when the money runs out, newbie quits to get a 'real job'... except now the store owner is hooked on $3 shit pipes and wont buy anything higher priced from a professional blower so they end up getting some chinese or indian crap that was subsidized by corrupt government and eventually theres no way to compete working here in the states...

if theres anyone here making a profit off of $3 pipes, lets hear about it...

BTW, when i first started, i sold all my crap glass to friends or on the street or at garage sales or just gave it away... i resisted the urge to get into a store with my janky first pieces and it made me more eager to progress to a level of skill where i could feel proud to have my stuff for sale to the general public... wheres the motivation to get better if you get paid for just any lump you produce?

I never sold any of my first pipes, most pipes that don't look good enough to sell go into the fit bucket. I have sold 1st and 2nd quality 2-3" pipes for $6. not much profit there, hardly worth doing period.
I'm holding out for $10-$12 a piece from shops, and getting it from reputable places.
if OP pioes are all fkd up and look like my first pipes then $3 for jank work is better than $0 to replenish your materials.
problem is you get a reputation for making jank work before you are any good at it and even when ops work improves there will always be that "but you sell to me @ $3 a piece" argument down the road.

[menty666]

I've made decent profit off $3.00 pipes before. Fumed bats, that I usually sell for $5-$7 each but the shop owner bought 100 of me at once so I cut him a deal because I needed scratch fast for a new torch. That being said what I describe as "decent profit" might not be what you all would call decent profit.

10 fumed bats an hour.
20 bats per $3.00 tube of china 19mm extra heavy wall
Half a tank of oxy

$12.00 for glass
$7.50 for oxy
$.50 for silver

$300 for the 100 pipes
-$20 for materials
$280 profit for about 10 hours work.
$28/hr



Your math is wrong there. I assume you have a kiln of some sort, that requires power to run it. Unless you're working in a field, there are lights, the roof over your head while you work, heat or cooling. You need money for tool upkeep and replacement. You're recouping costs on learning as well since (I assume) you didn't just one day light a torch and start making pipes out of the gate.

The point is that the gas and glass is part of the equation. There's "hidden" overhead as well as a premium on the monkey spinning the glass. Not to mention time selling isn't time producing. Unless you rode to the gas station on a bike or walked, you've also got costs to recoup on upkeep of your vehicle (insurance, gas, oil, maintenance).


I made solid icicles I sell for $3.00 each, basically as a shiny loss leader to get the crows to the table to look at the other glass. Those are basically break even pieces, so I can't imagine showing a profit at $3 on something that requires prep time, the glass, some small bit of color work, shaping, proper holes, cleaning up the mouthpiece and then annealing.

[Tzonis]

Points well taken. But at the same time, have you ever heard the story of the prostitute who started giving blowjobs for $5, but raised her price to $50 once she got good at it?

Neither have I.

Icarus,

Thats because the prostitute gives it away to get their skill level up.. DUH! :D

-Tz

[Aymie]

Start selling your stuff at friends parties. If you aren't the social type, pick an outdoor concert and camp out under a tree with your case open in front of you. That will bring you the best money you can get right now. Finding a way to get retail for your jankness is the best bet for money. I sold all of my beginner stuff like this, or just to friends in general.

The first few years, I didn't even know you could put stuff right in the kiln. I was mostly self taught. I had a large box of vermiculite. I would start in one corner, putting each piece close enough to the last to share the heat. When the box was full, I was done for the day and would batch anneal the next.

As far as selling to a gas station goes, I think It's awesome that they are willing to pay more than the $.25 they get import for.

But undercutting is a serious crime in this business. A few years back Corinne and I got word that some chick was selling bracelets for $7-10. Not only were we pissed that she was ripping off corn's design, but she was undercutting the fuck out of our prices. My cheapest super plain goes for $20. So we set out to find her at the next show. Apparently, someone got word to her that this was extremely bad business because we have never seen her or heard anything since.

If you only ever plan on this being a hobby, there is no reason to care what any of us think. If you plan on this being a full time job at some point, I suggest you take our advice/warnings seriously. Many of us here are not just faceless computer nerds who happen to like glass. Many of us are members of the glass community, some quite prominent, as we are quite tightly knit. You can be welcomed or you can be blacklisted. The choice is yours.

Above all else, you gotta be a bit thick skinned to survive in this business.

And take marcel up on that deal. Worst case scenario you end up with a fucking awesome new piece. Maybe even a mimosa. He makes good mimosas.