electroforming

[Coal]

I am waiting on my last few chems to arrive for electroforming. I have scowered the forums for the following question and havent found answers so here it goes.

~Once you mix the electrolyte solution does it need to be covered or sealed between uses?

~Does the sulfuric acid volatolize or evaporate?

~How long will the solution last before needing to be changed?

~What is the safe and proper way of disposing of the bath solution?

~How do you clean the solution off the piece after removing it from the solution.

I want to handle the solution properly and with respect since it toxic.
Remember safety 3rd!
Thanks

[Greymatter Glass]

~Once you mix the electrolyte solution does it need to be covered or sealed between uses?

Yes, or it will evaporate and/or get contaminated with dust.



~Does the sulfuric acid volatolize or evaporate?

Yes, anything that's steel in close vicinity will eventually begin to rust. Best do it away from tools and equipment. The fumes aren't too good either, but in a small bath they're not too bad...



~How long will the solution last before needing to be changed?

Until it gets weak. You'll know when it's time to refresh it. In a perfect world it will never deplete, but it does eventually... depends on how oftwen / how much you plate out of it. Always make sure your anodes are in good shape, and not all rotted away.



~What is the safe and proper way of disposing of the bath solution?

Take it to a haz-mat place (fire department can help you) ... I've also heard that dissolving large amounts of steel wool in it will remove the copper ions, then mix it with LOTS of water, and it can go down the drain. (that's what I would do) Depends on where you live. If there's a plating company near you ask them. Get some litmus paper if you're going to dump it yourself.



~How do you clean the solution off the piece after removing it from the solution.

Run it under the faucet and a light brushing...toothbrush is good. Lots of water, fingers, a sponge, q-tips, etc... a spray bottle is handy too maybe?



I want to handle the solution properly and with respect since it toxic.
Remember safety 3rd!
Thanks

It's not as bad as you might think. The acid can turn your skin red and sore for a bit, but it's not going to kill you on contact. Wear gloves, a face mask, and you should be fine. Also, wear clothes you don't care about and/or a plastic apron. Any solution that gets on your clothes will eat holes it. You wont see them till you wash the clothes, then all the sudden you shirts will look moth eaten... confused me the first few times it happened with sparex...

Keep a tub of baking soda near by in case of spills... it will neutralize the acid.

-Doug

[Coal]

Wow! thanks Doug!

[FizZle]

yeah doug ur the man! rep+

[Simeon]

what would be a good source of info for researching this? It is an interesting idea that I would like to pursue at some point, just not sure where to start and would like a good source on process and applicable technique if possible. Can anyone point me in the right direction(s)?

Simeon

[Coal]

http://www.hobbies-and-pastimes.com/Electroforming.html

This link isnt the best. But I feel it is a simple broken down explanation that actually helped me grasp what is involved and where to get it. Just gotta wrap yo head around the concept.

good luck

[Greymatter Glass]

Midas has a plating/electroforming book with good info as well...

[Headdi Retti's Glass Art Studio]

^^^Nice Doug, b/t this and other electroform thread man Awesome info!...Repped!....

[Coal]

As i understand the areas that you want to form copper need to have contuctive paint, that has to be touching the cathode wire.

My question is when wraping the piece with wire does it also need a coat of paint, or will the copper naturally build up on it due to its conductivity (as long as it is part of the cathode as well)

Thanks in advance

[CripSkillz]

I havnt changed my solution yet,, just add distilled water when the level goes down,,, and more copper anodes weeeeeeeee... i do have a kinda lid that doesnt cover it all..


and I always paint the wire in to make good contact bond,, some times in a few places..

[Coal]

Great info Cripskillz! I cant wait to start testing and experimenting with this, as I have done lots of wire wrapping. I even have a few monkey skulls....... those will have to wait until I get this down tho. I will have to say that piece you did with what looks like a dog skull is just sick, and oh so inspiring.

[Icarus]

Holy shit. You never got my response man. I wrote you this super super long response to your PM (seriously, like an hour of writing and checking numbers and shit). I was wondering why you didn't get back to me about that. In looking at my PM's, I don't see the response email. Sorry about that man. Any questions you got for me, please send em my way.

[Headdi Retti's Glass Art Studio]

Nice Crip! ,Man I love your setup simple and clean, Thx for this info and all the help,..Rep for sure!...

[re-vit]

I've definitely gone way past the point where most people would want to change the solution... I run a really dirty aquarium setup. I don't really bother to clean the silicones, tar and sealants found on the scrap copper flashing i use for annodes.
I'm starting to wonder about cleaning all of the copper muck in the bottom of the tank. It's a mixture of dead flies, hair, and god knows what. The solution still measures below 1 pH, no matter how gross it gets.
My point is that if I was building the system over, I'd add a spigot at the bottom to occasionally drain off the sludge... anybody got a better idea on how to deal with the sludge? it can mess up your design when macroscopic copper particles settle on your piece and start plating someplace you didn't intend.

[CripSkillz]

When time comes I'm just going to pump solution out thru a trash filter into nother trashcan then pump it back and filter finer into the fresh cleaned tank

[BigManNew]

Do you have to add the brightener to the solution as soon as you make it before electroforming anything to make it shiny like the way snic has been seen to do it? Also how do you avoid inconsistent areas of plating because of wire attachment? Finally would a very small gauge wire work better than the thicker 18 gauge?

Thanks!

edit: If it is because I am missing the brightener then where can i find some online?

[Icarus]

Do you have to add the brightener to the solution as soon as you make it before electroforming anything to make it shiny like the way snic has been seen to do it? Also how do you avoid inconsistent areas of plating because of wire attachment? Finally would a very small gauge wire work better than the thicker 18 gauge?

Thanks!

edit: If it is because I am missing the brightener then where can i find some online?

Dalmar plating carries the brightener.

[barefoot stash]

You can move the wire several times during the plating process to prevent it from being incorporated into the deposited copper.

[Icarus]

Another thing you can do is to get some copper findings (Dalmar carries them) and glue one to your piece. Then paint your conductive paint over it.

Now connect your lead to that.

To support the piece, you don't need to hang it by the lead. You can use synthetic fishing line to support the piece. That way it's easier to reposition your piece and get a more even distribution of copper.

Now, once you finish, just take a dremel and grind down the finding that you connected your lead to.

Does that make sense?

[Coal]

Ugh, so I got all set up and did some test runs. I was able to get some ruff looking copper on a little teardrop with a miriah. So I did another run with a few peices, this time I turned the voltage all the way up, and started turning up the current until i had .2v and .2 amp. Let it there for a long time, saw a little happening, the only thing that actually had growth was this pendant... I had a total of 4 items. Before bed I turned it up to .5amp at .3 v and in the morning had more buildup on the pendant (looked good) but nothing more than an "inhanced" look of the original paint on all the other items... which i coated nice and thick... like fingernail polish goes on, with a cuetip. Let dry first of course............

But here is my problem, i decided to crank it up to 3amps to see if maby i had too many items and it wasnt plating cause of that. All the sudden i smelled kinda burning plastic smell.... uh oh. I turned the rectifier off, then back on and could get NO current and NO volts. Ugh! WTF. So i took everything down and placed a copper pipe on each side of the bath, and hooked up the electrodes. Still nothing. So I unhooked them and just let the clips hang, Now when the voltage nob is turned all the way down it says 7v, and all the way up it says 22!!! its only a fucking 0-18v rectifier!!!

Rectifieder... or damn near kildifier? I knew this was going to be touch and go... but fuck!:bangHead:

BTW, if it helps I had copper pipe as anodes and had hammered the ends for a hanger, and hammered and bent it so that i had a few folds (12") in about 4" of length in the bath. Everything seemed fine until i rectifieder :tongue2:

Sound like anyone knows wtf is going on.

And yes,I have used the search engine, and I have read every thread on here about this topic and links people have posted. Thanks

[CripSkillz]

another thing you can do is,, try it n practice...

[kiefereefer]

Your electroforming is top notch buddy !!!

[Icarus]

Sound like anyone knows wtf is going on.


That doesn't sound good. But one thought is, where did you get the copper wire to hang your pieces with? You didn't buy it from a craft store by any chance, did you? If so, that may be your problem. A lot of times they coat their copper with a thin layer of plastic so it doesn't tarnish. You can burn the coating off with a propane flame.

[CripSkillz]

Deft always sand or scuff all connections for each run you can see a bad connection on amp meter when ya move a piece around, get your chems at dalmarplating

[Shiny]

are the meters digital? Can you measure the output with one of those testy dealy things? ....UPS back to manufacturer and act confused...

I have no idea really but I thought I would bump the topic

[Icarus]

are the meters digital? Can you measure the output with one of those testy dealy things? ....UPS back to manufacturer and act confused...

I have no idea really but I thought I would bump the topic

Which meters?

Both the rectifier and a multimeter are available in digital and analog, though I would suggest digital for both. I think by "testy dealy thing" you mean a multimeter.

Here's some info on using a multimeter:

http://www.multimeterwarehouse.com/usingamultimeter.htm

[barefoot stash]

How much surface area are you trying to electroform on? If you are just doing small beads then the online tutorial specs will work however if you are looking to do larger pieces you are going to need more power (amps). I fried my first power supply (Tek power 0-3amp model) on my second piece. there just wasn't enough current produced. After talking to customer service he said if you are running into water it creates a dead short. I also don't think the supplies are designed to run at top end for hours on end. Fortunately if you bought it off of amazon or ebay the company will swap it out for you under warranty. I still use the replacement for teaching and doing small jewelry pieces. I upgraded my supply to the Mastek hy-3020 (30v 20amps) Try starting your amperage low and running it up to around 10 and see if you get the coverage you want. Also, heat your bath to around 90 degrees and see if that helps.