glass gods,,, i surrender

[BrassMonkey]

i can blame it on inexperience or alot of things but its just not fun to me anymore. maybe its because im on a cheetah and it takes ALL day to make something. consecutive bad days are forcing my hiatus.
todays work. couldnt keep it form cracking.

[hashmasta-kut]

sorry about your luck. i am suffeirng too. i am on the third rebuild on a piece that cracked at the end from an opal, then i rebuilt the main can and it cracked from a bad marble join, and today i spent three more hours and replaced the main can again. hoping this is third time lucky. doesnt look like yours is fixable.

[glassnewb]

What color of frit did you use in that piece?

[n3rd]

are you using china black tubing for that piece? please don't be hard on yourself if you're using shitty materials its not your fault! try coiling first quality jet black its much more friendly to that technique.

[wfsupply]

Get a phantom, or a mirage for that size work. A cheetah is cute, but its just not enough for that thickness of work (in my opinion)......... I went from a red max to a mirage and that made my opinion change from yours to "hot damn this is fun"!

Remember, a mirage isnt money spent. You can get back 95% of it within an hour by reselling it.

[BrassMonkey]

thats jet frit. and ya a 6" graphite pad for reference. takes forever!

[RedToroBoro]

Hey BrassMonkey, don't be too hard on yourself. I have a torch with more power but have an area thats not vented well, so I can't work long enough to get a piece that size or work much at all. I would much rather be on your side and able to rage hrs. Keep going because your work looks great and you seem like your kickin ass with that torch you have. Don't surrender, you'll miss it in a couple of days. Good luck man.

[smolder holder]

Yeah a week without torching hurts. The flame calls you back eventually.

Don't give up your stuff is cool!

[kage]

get a different torch if thats what you're trying to do man, meet with some other blowers, take a class. there's tons of knowledge here, lots of vids on youtoob, but watching someone who knows what they are doing is crucial. your work looks fine, maybe just lack of some basics. anyway, i hope i don't offend. good luck

[B-Rye-oNeR]

It isn't for everybody, but many I see give it up never really give it a chance.

[gn0me]

In the mean time, when working with a small torch, break your work down into steps, and flame anneal or kiln between steps. Sometimes I only fire up the Minor, and it is really surprising what you can get away with as long as the glass is reintroduced into the flame slowly.

Make sure you learn the stress relieving flame really well, and use it. It looks like dragon fire - long, bright yellow-white candles - just enough oxy to keep carbon from building. This flame is a couple thousand degrees - soak the piece in it until you can see the flare coming off of the piece evenly, before focusing heat on any particular part of the flame. Soaking the piece like this will also shorten the time it takes to melt in pieces you add on - warts and feet and dots and such. There is a point where it becomes detrimental, especially with chromium greens colors, but keeping it all evenly heated is important.

Good work, by the way! It's too bad it broke, but the next one will be even better.

[full_kiln]

cheetahs a powerful torch, watch your kiln time, blacks a finicky color at times

[Albino Sasquatch]

plus black is the hardest color to get all workd in properly. any little ridges on the inside will mean death. i say get some cad color or light color frit so that way it will melt in easier for ya. once you get some more heat then you can work on the dark colors that are harder to work in

[Deez]

Those frit colors look like they could be cracky. But they also dont quite look melted in. You gotta really work that frit in. The cheetah should definately handle that. I make tons of frit stuff on my lynx that size and bigger no problem..... get it hottttttter

[SkyKingGlass]

Get a phantom, or a mirage for that size work. A cheetah is cute, but its just not enough for that thickness of work (in my opinion)......... I went from a red max to a mirage and that made my opinion change from yours to "hot damn this is fun"!

Remember, a mirage isnt money spent. You can get back 95% of it within an hour by reselling it.

I too went from a Red max to Mirage...Night and day difference..

[hwcglass]

Bad day.

We all have them.

Cracking problems, IMO, tend to heard. You will go weeks without seeing one and then all of a sudden you get a good week of cracking shit all the time.

It happens to everyone. It hurts everyone emotionaly.

This job is not easy. Not one the bench and not in the head.

The longer you go working glass the easier it does not get.

I say 75-90% of this job is in the head.

Keeping your head strait is key to making it long term in glass and, believe it or not, a clear head will actually prevent cracking while a cluster fuck mind will make cracks.

You got this. Keep your head clear. Try again.

[Simeon]

I know your pain as well man, worked on a national for way too long, and even now that I have a bigger torch i still have days where nothing goes right.
The hardest thing to know with art in general whether you are a sculptor or painter, printmaker, what ever, is knowing when to step away.
That said I still have days I try to force myself to work even when I am not feeling it, and I get the same result, lots of cracks, stupid shit messing with me leaving me asking myself, "dude, your better than this, what are you doing?" and the only answer is "not walking away and doing something more productive like prep work or something mindless that doesnt require tapping my creative mind"

Hang in there man.

[STROKER]

dude that is so part of this process.

if you dont have problems like this then you are not pushing yourself and your envelope. no one has a perfect track record regardless of the time behind the torch.

many great lampworkers will go out to the shop today with the intent to make a banging piece for all to love and many will fail as that is truly just part of the process.

if you want real frustrastion, go work on a custom wood sculpture for two months straight and then get overly ambitious with your anglegrinder only to make a nice hole and ultimately make some very expensive firewood. welcome to my world of frustration.

there are very few crafts that provide the instant satisfaction that glassblowing does and this is the very reason i got into it in the first place.

dont get me worng, i know it can be super frustrating when things just dont go your way in the shop. those days will always plague you for as long as you try to be creative. no problems mean no effort...imho...

now go figure out what went wrong and correct this mistake so you will have one less issue to deal with the next time you break something.

even better, go get a shovel and dig a ditch for a few hours straight and you will be looking at that torch with an entirely new perspective.

[BrassMonkey]

ive calmed down a little. i cant be a little bitch all day. ne ways the frits worked in good what happened was i did a shitty weld ( i knew it), bridged and put it in the kiln and grabbed a beer for like ten minutes. took it out and hit it with a super fluff flame and it cracked from the weld. chased the crack with the natty and took so long other shit started to crack. phantom should be here next month.i wally assured me, lol. i can do alot with a cheetah, just not in a timely manner, im goin to relax today and fix the fist sized hole in my wall.



btw im totally in to expanding and taking classes/apprentice under someone.

[LTD]

A few folks say that the cheetah is too small in this thread. hehehe. Oh you guys are too funny. the torch may LOOK small but you can rage huge stuff on a cheetah. HUGE stuff.

[Bo Diddles]

If it's not fun to you any more, you should probably give it up and do something else.
Also, LTD - what do you mean by huge? A 3" marble?

[boxfan willy]

Brass Monkey,

I can't tell you how many times I have thrown some shit, said "I quit", and lit the torch back up after a ciggy and a beer.
If you have a phantom on the way and you are educating yourself, correcting mistakes, then give it time.

It really seems like you are answering your own questions. Back off and bang those onies and bones til that phantom comes in...then watch out.

keep ur head up...

[frillcappa]

Yep, IF you had a lynx it would be a different story, the cheeta is a monster in its own right!

[wfsupply]

The red max can make spoons and inline bublers too. It just takes forever, aka twice to three or four times longer. It makes the learning curve longer. You dont have as much control. I'm no expert of course but I've done the upgrade and been through it just as most of us here have.........

[Bo Diddles]

With all do respect wfsupply, you think that a few months on the torch qualifies you to give advice like this? WTF, seriously. Leave the advice to people who have had YEARS on the torch, not MONTHS.
Blaming the torch for your problems is weak sauce.
Your above comment is just plain wrong. Just for the record.

[wfsupply]

With all do respect wfsupply, you think that a few months on the torch qualifies you to give advice like this? WTF, seriously. Leave the advice to people who have had YEARS on the torch, not MONTHS.
Blaming the torch for your problems is weak sauce.
Your above comment is just plain wrong. Just for the record.

My 13 months as a lampworker does qualify me to state that. Just like your 1500 posts here qualifies you to just be disrespectful to people on the Internet. I stand by my statement. Disagree if you like, but do it constructively.

Ben

[kage]

The red max can make spoons and inline bublers too. It just takes forever, aka twice to three or four times longer. It makes the learning curve longer. You dont have as much control. I'm no expert of course but I've done the upgrade and been through it just as most of us here have.........

this is hardly true. i can say this from my decade of experience. and also i have a red max and a delta on my bench

[brettodie]

wow 13 months sweet :)

longer time in the kiln before you try to fix it next time. at least 15 mins if not a bit more.when your fixing cracks also go in hot with a wide enough flame to heat crack and around it a bit.hit one end of the crack and then the other to stop it from running. then warm the whole thing and if done right the crack will disappear. just let the heat sink in slowly or the crack will spread.

[BrassMonkey]

I POsted in a really shitty mood. lol all better. just need a little break,, . also i got a adjustable office type chair to replace the file cabinet ive been sitting on, much better.

as for the torch. i love my cheetah and can do alot with it. but i dread things like working with 38mm heavy. ya you can but it sux.

i do tend to rush things and need like a stop watch for the kiln.
thanks.

[brettodie]

make something that takes at least 15-20 mins then you dont need a clock and your productive and your not just waiting for it to get done.

[smolder holder]

Yup^^ and you can make more in a day doing things this way. I like working on one fairly involved piece and making like six or seven pieces of prodo while doing one nice one.

Just my $0.02

[OracleGlassArts]

i quit for the last 2 weeks, partly cus of a breakup from a 3 year relationship....mostly cus on everything ive tried lately, i get 99.9% finished and then watch it slowly die more and more as i try to save it. all my color wasted and i have no re-up money

[OracleGlassArts]

The red max can make spoons and inline bublers too. It just takes forever, aka twice to three or four times longer. It makes the learning curve longer. You dont have as much control. I'm no expert of course but I've done the upgrade and been through it just as most of us here have.........

lies! my redmax is just as quick as any other torch....seriously why do people think that ther is some crazy huge difference in how a torch can burn oxygen and propane? no matter what you burn it in, propane still has the same potential energy and oxygen will always make the combustion more complete and hotter compared to open atmosphere. not trying to be a dick, but ive never heard or seen anything to back up the red max being inefficient claim, and chemistry kinda seems to say that its gonna be the same combustion reaction no matter what.

[Mecha]

My 13 months as a lampworker does qualify me to state that.

No, it doesn't.

[hwcglass]

Don't lampwork sitting down.

I won't go off about it, but sitting, IMO, is disrespectful to the glass.

You want to make something nice? You want to see yourself as a strong and improving lampworker? Then stand up and work.

[NorthWoods Glass]

With all do respect wfsupply, you think that a few months on the torch qualifies you to give advice like this? WTF, seriously. Leave the advice to people who have had YEARS on the torch, not MONTHS.
Blaming the torch for your problems is weak sauce.
Your above comment is just plain wrong. Just for the record.

Well said Brad! My friend Sobe busted out an inline on a national 8m, just to prove it's skill over torch [and it looked SICK]

[Simeon]

lies! my redmax is just as quick as any other torch....seriously why do people think that ther is some crazy huge difference in how a torch can burn oxygen and propane? no matter what you burn it in, propane still has the same potential energy and oxygen will always make the combustion more complete and hotter compared to open atmosphere. not trying to be a dick, but ive never heard or seen anything to back up the red max being inefficient claim, and chemistry kinda seems to say that its gonna be the same combustion reaction no matter what.

run a GTT and you will know the difference in temp, and flame atmosphere, not harshing on the redmax but there is a difference. Also, the width of your flame can limit how quickly you can melt large pieces of glass.

Your gonna cream when you fire up that phantom!

[FizZle]

was i did a shitty weld ( i knew it), bridged and put it in the kiln and grabbed a beer for like ten minutes. took it out and hit it with a super fluff flame and it cracked from the weld.

...what the prob is that you didnt work the weld smooth...after you weld it let it stiffen a little while you slowly puff and pull back a little than quickly bridge and work your weld before you go back to the kiln...if you leave acute angles in a janky weld it WILL crack when you try to reheat it...if u just make sure you work it smooth right after you weld everytime before u garage again...this type of piece should be noooooo prob on ur cheetah...

[Jake C]

A wise man once said "dude with the most hours on the torch wins". Get to work.

[Dom]

No, it doesn't.

Agreed.

[dOprah Winfrey]

as for the torch. i love my cheetah and can do alot with it. but i dread things like working with 38mm heavy. ya you can but it sux.

thanks.

Turn your torch up! The cheetah works 38x4 like butter. It also rages the piss out of 44x4. How long are you running your candles? What are your pressures? I ran a cheetah for 8 months, and over that time got to get a good picture of what its capable of.

Seriously the cheetah has a huge top end for a $550 torch. It is a prodo making machine.

How long did it take you to make that piece before it cracked?

PM me if you have any questions about getting the most from the cheetah. I'm no expert but spent a fair amount of time, and burned through quite a few cases of glass on mine.

[BrassMonkey]

2 psi propane 12psi oxy..

takes like 2 hours for a spoon, so took 4 hours to make that, lol

got back on today, first piece. ive been through cases of glass making spoons and fuck half of um up still. today with this on i guess i accidentally sealed up the blow tube, fucked up condensing etc.


just bitching and venting.

[blackink]

I'm looking at the reflection from the light on the above spoon, as well as the bottom most edge, and it looks like the glass is not a consistant thickness. Going thick to thin to thick (on the inside) will not let the piece cool down out of the flame at a consistant rate. Maybe practice making a miniature pipe from the section of color you prep. Be able to spin the glass both ways when heating up the end/mouthpiece to get it thoroughly heated and blown out consistently maintaining even thickness throughout the entire piece of glass.

[hippi]

maybe stop messing with frit.. when i was on my cheetah when something cracked it was mostly because i let one end cool to much then id hit it with the flame and CRACK... is it crackin while your workin it or while in annealing in the kiln?... dont quit just put some plywood against the wall maybe put some sides on the plywood and throw that piece as hard as u can..lol lets out a lot of steam.. wear goggles lol.











OH AND DONT GIVE UP

[LTD]

If it's not fun to you any more, you should probably give it up and do something else.
Also, LTD - what do you mean by huge? A 3" marble?

I posted up some of the work a friend of mine makes on his cheetah in one of the red max vs. gtt threads. Really big bubs, inlines, and huge shirleys. I am talkin 16in+ tall bubs.

[kage]

maybe stop messing with frit..
OH AND DONT GIVE UP

+1

[CripSkillz]

Don't lampwork sitting down.

I won't go off about it, but sitting, IMO, is disrespectful to the glass.

You want to make something nice? You want to see yourself as a strong and improving lampworker? Then stand up and work.



WTF you tryin to say MAnG!!! How am I disrespecting :wes::tantrum: :chilling:

as for small torches,, i made a 22" stemless on just the lynx... for fun it works heehh Oh Ya did it SITTTIN

[Bo Diddles]

I posted up some of the work a friend of mine makes on his cheetah in one of the red max vs. gtt threads. Really big bubs, inlines, and huge shirleys. I am talkin 16in+ tall bubs.

Right on, it's just that there's huge and then there's huge. I could put together 20 five foot sticks of 8mm end to end, and that would be huge, but it's not really what I would be talking about when talking about how much firepower a torch has.
To me, a torch that can go bigger means bigger marbles, or big tube pulls, or maybe bigger vessels if talking about flame width. But the piece you posted could have been done with a Natty, I just don't see how it's relative when talking about how big you could go with a torch.
Also, just because someone with advanced skills can make something impressive with a specific torch doesn't mean a beginner could....
Not trying to get you all riled up or anything, just explaining my opinion. I love this debate!

[dOprah Winfrey]

[QUOTE=BrassMonkey;591214]2 psi propane 12psi oxy..

takes like 2 hours for a spoon, so took 4 hours to make that, lol
QUOTE]

I highly recommend you turn your pressures up. 3 or 4 propane and 20-24 oxy. You'll notice a HUGE difference. Your starving your torch. Also make sure your not using too much blue knob, its easy to cool the flame down by adding too much.

Up your pressures, and rage your torch. Run your candles between 3/4 and 1 inch long. You'll go through more oxy per hour, but you'll save so much time per peice.

What size frit are you using? Perhaps if you used a smaller size you wouldn't have to heat and puff as much to get it to melt it. Saving you time.

[LTD]

+1


WTF you tryin to say MAnG!!! How am I disrespecting :wes::tantrum: :chilling:

as for small torches,, i made a 22" stemless on just the lynx... for fun it works heehh Oh Ya did it SITTTIN
^^:D:D:D:D^^



Also, just because someone with advanced skills can make something impressive with a specific torch doesn't mean a beginner could....
Not trying to get you all riled up or anything, just explaining my opinion. I love this debate!
Noted. Completely valid point. I was just lettin the guy know you can go big. The double bubs the guy i was referring to had cans made on 50 something by 7 I believe (not positive on size).

BRASSMONKEY do give in man. Bump up your pressure like these guys said and just keep pluggin away!!

[funksizzle]

I'm new, but would you put a shirlock in the annealer upside down? So that the mosy weight is on the bottom, or does this not have anything to do with the stress relieving?

[Julian]

Hey funksizzle, no, the distribution of weight of a piece in the kiln isn't related to annealing. In a nutshell, annealing is process in which a glass piece is heated slowly to an even temperature, about 1050 degrees F for boro. At that temperature, strain in the glass is relieved while the piece is soaked for a time relative to the thickness. The next important step is cooling down slowly. In normal annealing, the piece doesn't change shape or get hot enough to move. It doesn't make a difference how you place something in the kiln as long as it is getting heated and cooled evenly.

[RamblezMarblez]

exotics color frit has lots of metals and are cracky when not thinned out with enough clear....try adding clear frit inside after you melted in the exotic.

[Aaron Ellis]

I gotta say thanx to everyone I've been torching glass for over ten years and self learned (-: . I just found this site the week of the 2011 DFO and am stuck on it I've had a hell of a week and shit still Fu@&in up but we need to remember we all have those days and when I do I go get a hangover
For real tho thank you all.

[J Howard]

i can't believe i just read this whole thread

[kage]

i can't believe i just read this whole thread

so....what are your thoughts?

[BrassMonkey]

havent touched the torch in weeks and dont care. so ya on hiatus.

[yinzer]

i can't believe i just read this whole thread

...

[hippi]

i would defently turn up ur psi settings.... 2psi propane is low..5 or so would be better...same with the oxy..try 15-17psi... maybe try using different colors... the pipes u posted look like the same color and they both cracked..maybe a issue with them... everyone has off days/weeks you think if deppe or salt gave up after broken pieces theyd be where there at today? i just made a 250$ oil rig only to have the base break off cause a stupid disicion on my part.. it happens to everyone... think things thru, have a saftey break and get back on the torch

[J Howard]

so....what are your thoughts?

if this were easy, it'd be called your mom

[kage]

if this were easy, it'd be called your mom

:cry2: