abe, glassalchemy, paul, air in color?

[Firekist]

i got some color recently that, to me, had unacceptable amounts of air in it. it's a translucent enough striking color that you can obviously see the air from feet away. there was less air the last couple times i purchased the same color.

i also got some lokis lipstick and amber purple recently.. these two were so close to airless.. omg.. what a sweet sweet difference that is! the lokis is just a pleasure to melt! way to go!



soo, is the air there because of being cheap and not letting the bubbles rise out?

is it color dependent? are some colors going to have air no matter what? is there something added to lokis to "get the air out" or something?

i never really cared too much before, because most silver strikers always had some air (striking yellows, amber purples, purple lusters, silver creek, etc.)

but this batch of amber purple and lokis were so airless, they made most other colors just seem like rejects by comparison.

i really want to know what gives, and how much slack to cut the makers of colors that are so great (when they're not full of air).

.. thanks
--seth

[budman8778]

I had the same feeling with some trautman Colorado a bit back. Appricot I think... Was perfect, smooth, and bubble free... What gives?

[Aymie]

My experience is that more transparent colors can have tons of bubbles, and they cook themselves out. Are you having trouble working them, or giving up before you try?

I had some serendipity that was garbage unless you kept one end cut to allow air to escape from the cut end. Try that and see if it works.

[hashmasta-kut]

is it color dependent? are some colors going to have air no matter what? is there something added to lokis to "get the air out" or something?



.. thanks
--seth


i would say it is color dependant to a large degree. most likely not always, but often.

[Greymatter Glass]

depending on who you ask, the phase of the moon, and the season of the year you'll get about 40 answers....

as far as I've figured out the answer is "yes"

[Belliott]

ya i know what u mean. is it hit or miss on air? people just trying to get the color out fast as they can? different parts of the batch? some info from the guys who make it would help a lot.

[oldschooltofu]

from what i have learned, glass taken from the top of the pot will have more air than glass taken from the bottom of the pot. unfortunatly it is difficult/impossible to get only bottom of the pot.

then some batches are all around better.

the only solution i have come up with for airy rods is to re-mix them yourself.

some colors like mint, portland grey, periwinkle, the heavy opeques....need to be heated past the bubbling, and the surface bubbles will melt in.

[Albino Sasquatch]

ive had some GA amber purp type colors be really bad. then i used some northstar amber purp and i know i will keep buying form northstar no bubbles!

[Julian]

I've had some batches of GA Triple Passion that were totally free of air, which was noticeable. This made it really excellent for implosions.

[gn0me]

My most recent lb of amber purple is pure magic.

On the other hand, I have never seen NS violet or lavender without air - it's even in the color chart. I kind of like those colors with air, though, as it can look like fiber optic or almost like sparkle... very strange.

[Julian]

Yeah, the transparent rare- earth tints are naturally bubbly it seems. How do the Chinese make that purple, though?

[Icarus]

Yeah, the transparent rare- earth tints are naturally bubbly it seems. How do the Chinese make that purple, though?

They grind up all of the left handed children and add them to a batch of clear.

Terrible, I know.

[LarryC]

My most recent lb of amber purple is pure magic.

On the other hand, I have never seen NS violet or lavender without air - it's even in the color chart. I kind of like those colors with air, though, as it can look like fiber optic or almost like sparkle... very strange.

Mmm. NS Violet. Love the color but it does have a virtual blizzard of bubbles.

[Black Fire]

Oooh I had a batch of Persimmon once that was crystal clear, blissful stuff. I haven't seen it that clear again, still have a 1/4 stick around to use in the most careful apps.

[Firekist]

i'm trying to ask paul, abe, and whomever wants to chime in from ga.. so hopefully i don't get 40 answers =)

aymie, i'm trying to understand why the air is there.
serendipity is a double dipped rod, sounds like you got lucky and had a big air streak that you could work out.. this stuff has bubbles everywhere, no big streaks. cutting the end is a great tip to try..only works if the end of the bubble goes from flame to cut end. kudos for that one.

oldschooltofu.. what you said is pretty much what i've heard here and there..but.. it was never from the horses mouth.. i'm hoping to get more info and understanding from people in the know. (i'm not saying you don't know, i'm saying i don't know if you know, because i'm not sure what you know. hah! .. i think that made sense)

doug, i'm not sure if you were as vague as hmk, or if that really was a good answer. maybe you're saying the 3 "people" i'm trying to ask would give 40 answers if they really wanted to type it all out.

so yeah.. sounds like there are a few people that would love to have air free glass.. and possibly some people with hording problems.. heh. (i save colors too)

and .. gnight
--seth

[chayes]

How come we get air in our color rods?---answer is at :14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E6IfdUJn6s

[J Howard]

Yeah, the transparent rare- earth tints are naturally bubbly it seems. How do the Chinese make that purple, though?


by melting it in a swimming pool sized furnace and down drawing the tube?


molybdenum elements in the furnance get the pots hotter for better fining. that's what abe told me makes his silver colors so clean and air free

[Snurf]

The longer ya cook a batch of color in the furnace, more bubbles tend to rise to the surface of the pot, and are scraped away before they pull the rod or tubing.

Abe (northstar)uses simax for striking ap colors, thus he can cook them longer and the silver dosent over strike.

Ga uses kimble and has a limited window before their silver strike colors over strike. Less time melting out the bubbles in the crucible= more bubbles in your color rod.


That's what I've gathered from chating with abe and Thomas. Might be other factors in play, but I wish Ga used simax fore their strikers.

[dOprah Winfrey]

The longer ya cook a batch of color in the furnace, more bubbles tend to rise to the surface of the pot, and are scraped away before they pull the rod or tubing.

Abe (northstar)uses simax for striking ap colors, thus he can cook them longer and the silver dosent over strike.

Ga uses kimble and has a limited window before their silver strike colors over strike. Less time melting out the bubbles in the crucible= more bubbles in your color rod.


That's what I've gathered from chating with abe and Thomas. Might be other factors in play, but I wish Ga used simax fore their strikers.


Very interesting information, thanks for posting that. What I've found in my limited experience working GA and NS doesn't seem to coincide with that though. I find that GA's equivelents to NS colors are easier to keep from over striking (the passions vs. the ap's, the amazons vs. the exotics) I'm sure theres more going on besides what clear they use as a base, like the actual recipe of the colors coming into play.

I'm not doubting what your saying, I was just suprised to read it. I use Kimble and Simax everyday and know what your saying about Kimble wanting to overstrike, especially compared to Simax.

Thanks for the interesting bit of info. +rep

[Abe Fleishman]

This is the deal the more you cook the glass the more air comes out. Some colors are harder than others to get the air out, this glass is made in very small batches and it is very hard to make the glass act the same every time. If boro was made in large batches we could control each batch better but with the risk of loosing tons of money if the glass was bad. If people wanted to pay $80-90 per pound then it would be that we could cook the glass slower and take more time to prepare the glass for resale this would give you glass that was air free glass or almost. We also use 3 different types of glass to make our colors Kimble, Simax and Schott each glass has different chemistry so we use the glass we feel is best for the color, this also adds a lot more money to the cost of making color.

Simax is used due to the fact it has the highest oxidation state of all the borosilicate glass available today, and just like your torch you need a lot of oxygen to keep the AP family clear before striking.

We use Schott due to the fact that the glass has a more neutral oxidation state so it does not effect colors chemistry like the opaques and blacks.

Kimble is used due to the fact that is has the highest reduction state of the clears so using colors like Carmel you need glass that strikes dark and rich.

Hope this helps
Abe

[Snurf]

Abe = Warlock status.

[Bo Diddles]

Great post Abe, thanks!