Worries about our industry: safety

[somberbear]

As its been pointed out with the noobs...

Our industry is great for many reasons. its small, and can be done on ones own. you dont have to go to school for many years to do it. etc. but it also worries me.

We dont have many regulations other then local codes. i fear if we dont keep out safety standards high that might change. i really dont like the thought of turning on the news and seeing fires, people hurt. Not only do we lose a member of our community but would also bring attention and regulation to us, in a negitive light. i dont want to be connected to it.

I dont know if its a lack of respect for the forces we deal with or what. but i see some truely truely unsafe practices. playing with things you dont understand enough to be safe. so please research it, we have plenty of help here to do this safe so we should.

with that said i think we also self regulate very well. and i want to keep it that way. so please be safe. its something we all have control over.

http://mthruf.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/b717dd0d-85bd-4961-973b-660a69786e65.jpg

[Icarus]

Okay, here is a thought. Plenty of books have a introductory safety and setup section, but the problem is, you gotta buy the book (I know, trust me, I bought the books, but still, it requires you to buy something to learn safety, and I'll be goddamned if some glassblowers aren't the tightest bastards on the face of the planet).

So, because it would run into copyright issues, we couldn't just copy the safety section from a book and put it out there as a PDF that anyone can download, why don't we write an open source introductory shop safety article and give it a creative commons license to allow anyone to build on it and re-release it, (provided that they give it the same license).

Anyone in? I'd be happy to compile it all together, but I'm gonna need some help with text and graphics.

[somberbear]

i think its a great idea and please keep them coming ... these questions are very common ... and i think a community agreed on living document to point people is a great idea. there has been a great amount of advice and knowledge given to us over the years. even better then the text books have.

[naughty pirate wench]

I would be delighted and honored to kick in with editorial help/word-crafting.

[Greymatter Glass]

Rob, two misconceptions right off the bat....



its easy to start with minimal funds.


True, you can also buy a hammer for $5 and hit yourself in the head.
cheap DOES NOT mean safe or easy.


As hobbies go glass blowing / lampworking is one of the more expensive... "minimal funds" would imply that anyone could do this in a weekend with whatever they have left over from their last pay check. That's a major problem right there.

I always tell people the minimum cost associated with getting started in glass blowing as a hobby is $750-$1000.

As professional career options go it's cheaper than many... but on par with carpentry and auto mechanics... a good set of tools and all the associated paraphernalia is going to run you in the neighborhood of $5000-8000.

When people start to shave money from their start up budget too often proper safety goes first.



approval from local gov. and inspections.

This is going to vary from state to state and city to city. It would really suck if your house burns down and the city hits you with the bill for the fire fighters because you were running an illegal open flame in an unapproved space.

Call city hall, or for smaller towns the mayors office, and talk to someone in code and zoning enforcement. Glass blowing as a hobby isn't something they can generally prohibit, but they can enforce rules and standards.

It's also a concern for insurance. If your house burns down, or someone is injured in your studio will your insurance cover it? Don't assume. ASK THEM.

Worst case scenario, you'll have to get a rider for a hobby space and a site inspection from an adjuster. They will give you a figure and you decide from there what to do. They're not going to say no "period". They might say "no, unless you do this"... so do what they say. In my experience various hobby riders tend to run $50-100 a year more on a homeowners policy and a bit less on renters.


Otherwise, I agree noobs need to take safety more seriously.,

[Greymatter Glass]

Also, this sub-forum should have more stickies and is already a repository of good information:

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=9

[somberbear]

ill change my post to reflect this. thanks and i hope you will help draft part of this if you have time. or beefing up that section.

[Greymatter Glass]

Yeah, I'm all for a concise post about safety...

We need a mod to make the thread, sticky it, and LOCK IT. There can be a separate discussion thread, heck there's a whole forum for discussion of safety already... but a "main" safety thread shouldn't be open to anyone to chime in with their ideas, debate, and questions. It should be a peer reviewed article, and any discussion can take place elsewhere. As good threads are posted don't sticky them, cut and paste the good info into a locked and moderated sticky post.

Too many sticky threads are confusing and hard to follow, especially when they're not locked. I don't want to read one good post then 20 people commenting on it, debating it, contradicting it, then another good post, etc... it should all be confined to one thread.

Anyways, that's my primary concern.

[somberbear]

I will take this over after agi ill do the first update... give people not going something to do... i believe it will be a very productive thing to do for the community. and i planned to do the same thing. we can also use the wiki for this as well.

[Greymatter Glass]

something to chew on....

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?p=611186

[Swampy]

I will take this over after agi ill do the first update... give people not going something to do... i believe it will be a very productive thing to do for the community. and i planned to do the same thing. we can also use the wiki for this as well.

Good idea about using the Wiki Rob, sometimes it seems like peeps don't even know there is such a fantastic knowledge base available. Maybe a permalink to the Wiki article from the sticky...

[elad65]

There are thousands of words already written on many web sites, and when you bring these words to the attention of some people they sneer at you and yell "I'm going to do as I god damn well please and you can't tell me what to do". Until we can get these people past this mentality and get them to understand what the dangers are and the reputation they bring down on the "home grown glass industry" there is always going to be a problem.

For instance starting at post #456.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=412&page=16

If you read the preceding #455 posts on that site you wonder how to get to this guy to make him understand.

And there is a case on this forum where I pissed somebody off about their ventilation, the guy build a 6 by 20 foot hood and uses something like a 800 cfm fan (6x20 ft hood requires something like 12,000cfm), and when I stated by the numbers the fan was far below the needed size his attitude was it working fine and without me being there "how could I possible criticize his hood build".

Again there is lots written and may comments on how to do things and lots of criticizems (good and bad), and people still don't get it . The two things that scare me the most is people fooling with high pressure oxygen (500 - 2000 psi) who don't have a clue and what the dangers are and people who flaunt the safety rules about propane fuel ..

The concept that you have to by the copyrighted books to learn safety is a myth, its right here in front of you, if you can read this screen, you have the tool in front of you to learn everything you ever wanted or needed to know about studio safety.

The question is will you practice good safety policy once you read it and find out what it is.

Elad

[Icarus]

The concept that you have to by the copyrighted books to learn safety is a myth, its right here in front of you, if you can read this screen, you have the tool in front of you to learn everything you ever wanted or needed to know about studio safety.

The question is will you practice good safety policy once you read it and find out what it is.

Elad

I'm not saying that you HAVE to buy a book to learn proper safety, I'm saying that most of the books we recommend on a regular basis have safety as their first or second chapter, so the people who DO buy the books and actually read them do get a large dose of safety information before they even get to anything about the glass (other than perhaps a "history of glass manufacturing" chapter).

What I'm suggesting here, (and what I think most were able to pick up on) was that as a service to new members, the community (and ourselves) we should write either a locked thread or (or possibly in conjunction with) a downloadable "beginner safety article" that covers most of the items you need to know before you even light your torch.

If someone chooses not to read it or to follow it, that's their choice. But we put the effort into making it, and some will get use out of it. You can't live your life based on the thought of "well what if I say something and no one listens?" Say something, hope someone listens. If not, it's their loss. Silence never solved anything.

[drew1492]

Okay, here is a thought. Plenty of books have a introductory safety and setup section, but the problem is, you gotta buy the book (I know, trust me, I bought the books, but still, it requires you to buy something to learn safety, and I'll be goddamned if some glassblowers aren't the tightest bastards on the face of the planet).
.

If they are unable to use the search function, I doubt they will retain much reading a book. I have seen some bad ass glass blowers that I wonder if they could even read a book.

[Icarus]

Yeah but the thing is, do you not make popcorn because some of the kernels won't pop? No, you make popcorn, hope the majority of the kernels pop (or at least partially pop, cause that's even more awesome), and then don't worry too much about the ones that are left unpopped. You can't let the fact that some just aren't going to pop stop you from enjoying a bowl of popcorn.

There was a point somewhere in there, but now I'm just thinking about food, so I don't know if I could point out what it was.

[bildo]

It might be a good idea to reach out to noobs with private messages or even a home visit. People (myself included) have a hard time taking criticism, especially in a public forum. What Icarus said is true, the info is here. It will be helpful to have it in a concise form, but one on one mentoring of noobs might help the situation. I felt very much like "Fuck safety" but then a seasoned pro told me that I was messing up. My noob ass looks up to non noobs and if one takes an interest in me I will listen to what he says.
When Alienscience posted that he didnt use hose clamps and had the wrong size hose the forum members ate him alive. He is much more likely to give up on the forum than listen to all the shit. Long story short noobs are idiots that need their hand held the first couple times they walk across the street.

[phab]

...maybe the gldg should have a "newbie safety forum" thats one of the limited pages a new lamper can access here until they pass a wiki/gldg safety test before they start progression threads about H tanks and how to sharpen a graphite reamer and ask how to make a wigwag. these people are too lazy or dont know enough to use the fucking search engine therefore pass the fucking safety page test before you access the forum or go out and take a lesson and learn it the old fashioned way. seriously some super dumb asses out there playing with fire.

[Master Yoda]

agreed, i'm not sure about a test, but maybe new account creations can have a redirect to the aforementioned thread upon the completion of their sign up