putting my shop in the basement ?s

[ShttrdSpctrm]

I'm thinking of putting my shop in my basement for two reasons. 1. That's the only 240 plug on the property. 2. It's getting cold!
Is there anything wrong with that? Does anyone else have a basement shop?

I figure it's no different than my garage.

[FredLight]

I'd say the only concern is ventilation.Well, and getting your gases down there.

I built a shed, but would love to go underground. It's already hella cold in the shed.

[Roots of the Earth]

we run a basement shop here have hardlined gas running in from outside tanks, the ventilation was a little tricky but we rigged a 8000cfm fan up to blow out under the front deck... has been great stays cooler for longer during the summer and a bit warmer at least when the fans are off during the winter...


I have taken a little time to look into laboratory ventilation techniques running a intake thru the bench comming up right at the edge of the table creating a shield of fresh air between you and the work...?...?...?

[redbeard]

i've worked in a few basements, and i've piped the intake into the bench before, and that worked very well, esp. in the winter when all the heat in the room gets sucked out the window. on that note, i suggest wrapping a heating blanket around you and stand on one too, instead of trying to heat the whole shop( if its cold where you are)

[Sketchball]

As long as you set up everything properly it shouldn't be different from any other room/space.

In one of the Essential Lampworking DVDs, Bob Snodgrass was interviewed. When asked about ventilation he mentioned a friend of his that had suffered an earlier than normal death. Bob said he might have attributed this to his lack of ventilation working in the basement with only an open window. As long as there is a big enough passive (or forced; we have a swamp cooler) fresh air intake and strong enough ventilation you should be absolutely fine.

In a summer location, I declined to setup in a basement strictly because the windows were so small it would have been difficult to rig up on a temporary basis, but it doesn't mean it wasn't possible.


we run a basement shop here have hardlined gas running in from outside tanks, the ventilation was a little tricky but we rigged a 8000cfm fan up to blow out under the front deck... has been great stays cooler for longer during the summer and a bit warmer at least when the fans are off during the winter...


I have taken a little time to look into laboratory ventilation techniques running a intake thru the bench comming up right at the edge of the table creating a shield of fresh air between you and the work...?...?...?

I remember seeing a post you made about hard-lining your shop with copper pipe? 8,000 CFM sounds way legit, but loud too, how is the noise? Also, if you don't mind, what brand/model fan did you get, where and how much did it run you? Everything that I've read from you suggests you have a shop to one to one of the highest safety standards and I give you a lot of respect for that. Keep passing on that crucial under-discussed info my friend.

A fresh air supply between the lamper and the ventilation sounds like a solid way to keep somewhat of a shield in front of the person working from contaminated air from mixing with their air supply. It is something that I was interested in but at the time of setup we were still a bit over our heads as it was. We ordered two 1,200 CFM fans with a directed-air type hood and we thought that was about the minimum we could do to be legit. Because of space constraints, we only setup one split between the two (the other hasn't come out of the box and is in the closet). Also, our HVAC guys convinced us that 1,200 CFM was more than enough for that tiny room and that 2 would be like a tornado in there. Deep down I've always felt we needed a stronger outtake and your post re-enforces that.

Sorry for rambling, but in this industry I strongly feel that ventilation is not taken even half as seriously as it should be.

[glassblowingBiker]

to me It match the AIR going out and Have the same Coming Back in But Make sure your Makeup air Is far enought away from you Out air so your not bring it back in again and again

[EpochGlass]

yeah, should be fine. best is unfinished basement or section there of anyways.

there's at least a couple ways you could do it depending on your budget.

if basement is unfinished, put up some walls to create a closed studio space. route your exhaust out a window within the space. duct your fresh air intake from another window, minimum 10 feet away if you want to meet standard code, and "aim" it accordingly.


other option as mentioned already, exhaust out and run the fresh air in a "loop"
my concern with having it come in right in front of the front edge of the bench would be the hoses freezing. it get's really cold here though, so this might not be a concern for you.

I've been doing a lot of research regarding the fume hoods and designs for lab use and I'm in the process of building something similar to this one

http://www.hemcocorp.com/aux1.html

the air intake comes from the front of the bench enclosure rather than the bottom.

I'll be posting up a pic tutorial & action video once it's all done...either tomorrow or sunday


main thing is always safety first.

an alternative option for your garage setup, for the cold part anyways, have you tried a radiant heater?

[elad65]

There are several issues with basement glass studios.

All are safety hazards. One is ventilation, its difficult to ventilate. IF there are no widows, you have to cut holes in structure to have a exhaust and intake for ventilation.

IF basement it shared with GAS appliances (furnace- water heater) there is danger of "flue reversal" where vacuum formed by ventilation fan actually pulling CO and NOX gases from the combustion of furnace or water heater out of flue piping and actually adding to contamination of your breathing space in basement.

The pooling of propane (heavier then air) if you have a leak because it has no place to go as it settles in lowest places.

The pulling of sewer gasses up through floor drain if there is one in basement.

Basement studios can be done, it just take extra effort and precautions to make it a safe studio.

Some reading on basement studios.

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=12&sid=dd450b0701925319e91b81bf46b57a3e

Elad

[elad65]

Oops - Double post

[kq9ak]

I understand the air intake from around bench area but personally a heat exchanger would really help in extreme cold. The cold draft on a small piece would not be a problem with anything larger that is assembled from garage temp would defenately suffer from hot to cold shock from cold draft anywhere near the piece. If you r a bench cool everything before assembly person than I don't se a problem. I have seen a cold draft from accross a warm room cause issues on large assembly. Also when I worked in a large soft glass studio anytime somethin was getting close to be finished exhaust were turned off to eleminate cold drafts, obviously soft glass is a little more tempermentaly to a cold draft. It deffenately could be done but I have found in a cold garage heating incoming air(deffenately waste full) with a radiant heater worked extremely well in in negative temperatures and no insulation. I would use an additional 100lb propane per week but I was warm and able to work comfortable. A heated floor mat would have been a big help to keep toes warm on cement floor.

[ShttrdSpctrm]

Thanks for all the info. So I have an unfinished basement with windows. I was thinking of getting a dollie to strap my tanks on and take downstairs. It's only like& 6-7 steps. Shouldn't be hard. I need to be closer to my kiln.

[brettodie]

give me a ring when you get a chance. i might b up your way on monday.

[EpochGlass]

how sturdy are you stairs though? and how easy can you handle a tank on a dolly? every time I've had to do K tanks on a dolly on the steps, they have always been concrete. I'd be concerned with the constant weight slamming on the stairs if they are wooden. Might not be an issue short term, but could cause long term damage.

Of course, you could always reinforce the stairs if necessary.

[STROKER]

on that note, i suggest wrapping a heating blanket around you and stand on one too, instead of trying to heat the whole shop( if its cold where you are)

yeah that doesnt sound like a fire hazzard or anything.
lets wrap our entire body up in a highly combustable cloth that will go up in flames with the slightest contact with hot glass or flame.

i think i would rethink that one , no matter how cold i got.:twitch:

[brettodie]

heated floor mats and a infared heater. if its that cold. i work down to 0 with just those items.

[ShttrdSpctrm]

Yeah it's all concrete. Stairs too. I can handle some cold. Don't like it but I deal. I need to be next to my kiln.

[ShttrdSpctrm]

give me a ring when you get a chance. i might b up your way on monday.



Word! I'll probably be here on Mon. I just got back from traverse last night. I gotta make more glass for my next adventure.

[SoberstoneGlass]

i say just bear-hug the k-tank and walk it down the stairs. i've been in my basement for 2.5 years now, was on K for two of that, the dolly put more strain on my back bouncin down the stairs. i gave up on the dolly after a few times. in a few months the tank will feel like nothing.

[BoroZillacate]

For the tank, maybe anchor a tie down at the top and build some sort of skid to attatch to the tank. Use the rachet action to do work for you.

[ShttrdSpctrm]

For the tank, maybe anchor a tie down at the top and build some sort of skid to attatch to the tank. Use the rachet action to do work for you.



Do you have an engineering degree or something? Gotta put it to use somehow? LOL! Jk man.
I was going to do the bear hug and/or just ease it down while it drops from one step to another. Might break the concrete tho. My brother would be pissed. It's his house.

I was thinking if I had a dollie with hard plastic wheels, not inflated ones, it would be easier and no bouncy bouncy.

[Bo Diddles]

How about a ramp along one side of the stairs that folds up against the wall when not in use? I've seen kegs of beer moved down long flights of stairs this way.

[brettodie]

lay the tank on its side. stand below it on the stairs. let gravity do its work and let it "slide" slowly down the stairs. i did this for 2 yrs at one basement shop i had,much easier the carrying them.

[Riley]

forget lugging tanks down anywhere, if you can build a small secure enclosure outside and run the oxy and or gas lines through a slightly opened window (if there is one) or other convenient opening into the basement (unused drier exhaust/old unused furnace exhaust tube.

sure you may not be able to turn your oxygen off at the tank as quickly but with some inline regs inside, you'd never be lugging oxy tank(s) up and down the stairs multiple times a week, month or however.

i don't know your situation with the house layout but even having the tanks in an upstairs room/closet/garage with oxy line running down the stairs/hole in the floor would still be better than carrying tanks up down up down.

[D kid]

I'm in the process of doing the same thing. I have regular widows in my basement and will Drill a large hole thru the top of my wood window frame to pipe the oxy/prop in. I'm keeping the tanks in a Rubbermaid shed that sits against the house.

When I Built the bench I put a wall on the Right side and some drywall on the ceiling. I tried to make it as enclosed as possible. Now I'm building a room around the bench making sure I have two windows for vent and Intake. I have a small squirrel cage and will put a 13 inch exhaust fan in the window in front of me. Sunday I built the wall but Still have to build a door and seal the room off as good as possible.

Here are some pictures!

[ShttrdSpctrm]

Bo …that's a great idea.

Brett …that's probably what I'm gonna do, at least for a bit. Did you not make it to the tri-city area?

D ……that looks like it's gonna be a nice shop. I like the speaker up on the shelf. I like loud music.

[elad65]

Do you have an engineering degree or something? Gotta put it to use somehow? LOL! Jk man.
I was going to do the bear hug and/or just ease it down while it drops from one step to another. Might break the concrete tho. My brother would be pissed. It's his house.

I was thinking if I had a dollie with hard plastic wheels, not inflated ones, it would be easier and no bouncy bouncy.

Just leave tanks "outside" and run long lines into basement. Why hurt your self on stairs with heavy tank.

Rubbermaid "Outdoor Storage" unit is great for this.

http://owngarden.com/_cache/Garden%20Storage/img/amazon_B000L0CPPM.jpg

Elad

[brettodie]

ya its not to bad laying them down.
i made it but i had both kids in tow solo and a bit less time then expected.

[ShttrdSpctrm]

I was thinking of getting one of those outdoor containers but I can't be drilling holes in the house. It's not many steps so it won't be hard. I live in the ghetto, a crackhead will throw that on their back and run away. :twitch:
Brett, I might be in your area end of next week. Ill hit you up.