fuming (idea other than bugs)

[smolder holder]

I was taking a look at the periodic table and noticed that copper Cu, silver Ag, and gold Au, are all on the same period on the table. If you don't know the periodic table is made into periods which the elements in the periods share certain "family traits". I found it interesting that those metals are all compatible with boro so i decided to look into what other metals are on the same period.

there are three more elements in the same period as copper, silver and gold. Two are radioactive so i didn't research those, and one is a stable, rare earth element called Terbium. Among it's properties is the ability to fluoresce under UV light.

Off of wiki- terbium is a silvery-white rare earth metal that is malleable, ductile and soft enough to be cut with a knife. It is relatively stable in air compared to other lanthanides (a group of elements it falls into which includes rare earth metals)

As with other lanthanides, terbium compounds are of low to moderate toxicity, although their toxicity has not been investigated in detail. Terbium has no known biological role.

Thought this was interesting and worth throwing it up on the board.

Cheers folks

[Julian]

Any guess at what color that might create, if any? Any info I can find suggests terbium is used in optical glass, and can increase refraction, similar to lead. It has a boiling point of 5846F, about 800 degrees higher than gold, but a lower heat of vaporization.

Aha, it looks like it turns glass bright red:

Terbium-doped glass.
A small impurity of terbium gives this glass its brilliant red color.
http://www.theodoregray.com/periodictable/Samples/065.9/s12s.JPG
http://www.theodoregray.com/periodictable/Samples/065.9/index.qt.s12.html

Not really into fuming with random metals, personally but it's interesting.

[Eric S]

that is a very brilliant red.

[smolder holder]

I also read that at a certain valence it can yeild greens too.

Yeah i'm not going to try to obtain any and fume with it.....just fun to check out.

[themoch]

is that what they coated the inside of those chemically treated red tubes with?

[themoch]

uh oh!

http://terresacree.org/terbiumanglais.htm

[smolder holder]

uh oh!

http://terresacree.org/terbiumanglais.htm

Doh! I'll bet it's not real cheap to obtain either.

[Riley]

from mochs link:

"Current applications: Fuel cells: stabiliser for the ZrO2 crystals in the cells. The oxide Tb2O3 is used for X-ray screens, as a source of luminous green light, as phosphorescent material for cathode-ray tubes, and as an activator for green luminescent materials for cathode-ray tubes.


cathode ray tubes ? something along the lines of the stuff they used to make older moss with, tv parts ? if not at least you may have a source for this stuff to be recycled from if in fact it is a soon to be extinct/exhausted. rare element.



also while we are on topic, and maybe not so much... anyone considered using their old cell phones to strip out gold or other precious metals that may be useful ? i have maybe 10 old cells, and im sure its also something many people have around. i know there are a list of rare elements used. also from what iv read refining gold from cells is pointless unless you have quantity, but we only need small amounts at a time anyhow.

[Eric S]

i read a lot about mining and precious metals and there was just a new deposit found and beginning to be mined in australia that had a whole bunch of rare earth elements like this, ytterbium, erbium, as well as other stuff, so i dont think the sad monkey site is totally right about it being completely gone by next year.

on another note, look at this view to see how the periodic table is actually laid out.

http://www.sciencegeek.net/tables/LongTable2000.png

the one they show more commonly is to save space on posters. I dont think this element is related to gold or silver, but can obviously color glass, maybe not by fuming though. Erbium is from the same group as Terbium and it makes beautiful pink so maybe other lanthanoids would make other colored glass as well.

[Julian]

anyone considered using their old cell phones to strip out gold or other precious metals that may be useful ? i have maybe 10 old cells, and im sure its also something many people have around. i know there are a list of rare elements used. also from what iv read refining gold from cells is pointless unless you have quantity, but we only need small amounts at a time anyhow.

I think the process for this involves things like dissolving circuit boards in acid, then distilling the gold from the acid. There's a lot of toxic potential in electronics. I doubt it that could be worth it.

[smolder holder]

i read a lot about mining and precious metals and there was just a new deposit found and beginning to be mined in australia that had a whole bunch of rare earth elements like this, ytterbium, erbium, as well as other stuff, so i dont think the sad monkey site is totally right about it being completely gone by next year.

on another note, look at this view to see how the periodic table is actually laid out.

http://www.sciencegeek.net/tables/LongTable2000.png

the one they show more commonly is to save space on posters. I dont think this element is related to gold or silver, but can obviously color glass, maybe not by fuming though. Erbium is from the same group as Terbium and it makes beautiful pink so maybe other lanthanoids would make other colored glass as well.

Thanks for pointing that out. I should have dug a little deeper.

[themoch]

also while we are on topic, and maybe not so much... anyone considered using their old cell phones to strip out gold or other precious metals that may be useful ? i have maybe 10 old cells, and im sure its also something many people have around. i know there are a list of rare elements used. also from what iv read refining gold from cells is pointless unless you have quantity, but we only need small amounts at a time anyhow.


$10 hacksaw and an entire parking lot of people not expecting to come back to their car missing their catalytic converter...









:devilish:

[Riley]

i thought at least the fact that teribium they've used in alot of equipment will soon be out dated, and may also be a source if global supplies dwindle.

as far as the phones, i have no desire to go through the process of stripping phones for gold, nor catalytic converters for that matter. im a tinkerer, and if i have something available to me in my shop that i can experiment with, in a relatively safe and non-toxic way, then its fun.

[LunacyMountain]

I think the process for this involves things like dissolving circuit boards in acid, then distilling the gold from the acid. There's a lot of toxic potential in electronics. I doubt it that could be worth it.


man the idea of throwing on my hazmat suit and disolving some old circuit boards to get some gold just sounds like way to much fun to me...I'm just too lazy to ever go about such an extensive mining operation

[Shatner]

Any guess at what color that might create, if any? Any info I can find suggests terbium is used in optical glass, and can increase refraction, similar to lead. It has a boiling point of 5846F, about 800 degrees higher than gold, but a lower heat of vaporization.

Aha, it looks like it turns glass bright red:

http://www.theodoregray.com/periodictable/Samples/065.9/s12s.JPG
http://www.theodoregray.com/periodictable/Samples/065.9/index.qt.s12.html



Not really into fuming with random metals, personally but it's interesting.

Oh my! Beautiful.


uh oh!

http://terresacree.org/terbiumanglais.htm

That sucks if true!


Doh! I'll bet it's not real cheap to obtain either.

I just checked and it seems China sells it. All I could find was allibabba.com crap.

I'd be interested to fume with it.

[smolder holder]

^^shatner if you end up getting some post your results i'd be really interested to see

[Bruce Dille]

from mochs link:

"anyone considered using their old cell phones to strip out gold or other precious metals that may be useful ? i have maybe 10 old cells, and im sure its also something many people have around. i know there are a list of rare elements used. also from what iv read refining gold from cells is pointless unless you have quantity, but we only need small amounts at a time anyhow.

Ive tried mining gold for fuming from an old computer,found on the curb,I researched how to get the pins of a circut board on
You-Tube,Took a glass rod got it hot picked up the pins and fumed away,After the work came out it had a smokey tint to it that I figured could only be the lead solder used in the assembly of the card.Ive posted a pic for your enjoyment,It has more lead than your average China glass.har har

[Julian]

China owns most of the market for rare earth metals because the the best mining deposits are in China. This is actually a big problem for the US as some of these (like Niobium) are increasingly important for electronics, for use as magnets for example.

Apparently/ the price on terbium went down when some was discovered in China a few years ago. The current price looks to be about $2000 a kg. Probably a scientific/technical supplier would be the best bet for a small amount of something like this.

[themoch]

bruce,

remember when fuming to breath deep and often... it's good for your health!

[Bruce Dille]

I like the buzz from gold more than silver.

[Shatner]

^^shatner if you end up getting some post your results i'd be really interested to see

I ain't buying from an allibabba.com or similar shop. :dieslaugh And that's the only place I see selling it.

If anyone finds some for sale here in the USA please post it.


$10 hacksaw and an entire parking lot of people not expecting to come back to their car missing their catalytic converter...

:devilish:

That's Platinum. I don't believe there is gold in a cat.

[hellawacked]

http://www.newmetalsandchemicals.com/metals/product_search.asp?search=terbium&submit=Search
I'm tempted to buy some and try

[Milkman]

gawtdamn thats expensive Hella! for a rod thats .5" x .39" its roughly 400 bucks, or whatever the exchange is on 220 euros.

[Mr.P0rn]

Gold and Silver are members of a sub-group in the periodic table called the Noble Metals. I suspect these are what fume, although some of them have been fumed with no results. They include Gold, Silver, Platinum, Rhodium, Iridium, and Palladium. Due to previous research on ORMUS material, I suspect that being a member of the noble metals is what makes gold and silver special as far as fuming goes. If you have never heard of ORMUS material, and you like science, or interesting things - Research it. Its amazing stuff. Anyway...I think being a member of the noble metals is what makes gold and silver special when it comes to fuming. I saw someone here try platinum once with no results. However, look at ALL the different effects you can get from silver, yet you can also get crappy colors like transparent yellow, or too much white from fuming too heavy. I think all of these metals have a sweet spot somewhere, but I haven't got a chance to play with it yet. Remember: There is a difference between turning glass different colors because of simple impurities, and turning glass different colors due to crystal growth.

As far as getting metal out of phones and what not - It's not really worth the time. I am a gold and silver investor in my spare time, and I tried going that route as well. Basically, even if you have a giant pile of different circuits and pins that have some gold...the chemicals cost money, and there is significant risk and overhead to getting it done completely and safely. What I essentially figured out, is that scoping out a good deal on some gold is a lot better option than trying to extract it. Thats without considering using the gold for fuming. Because of how little gold you need to fume, i would ABSOLUTELY just go buy it. Just my experience, at least.

[themoch]

I don't know what you're all complaining about...

I just fume with led and graphene... the only two substances i need!

[Ikensel]

I don't know what you're all complaining about...

I just fume with led and graphene... the only two substances i need!

That explains a LOT !