Invacare Oxygen Concentrators and Homefills [Archive] - The Melting Pot

OxygenTech

03-17-2012, 04:31 PM

Hello everyone in the forum and the glass community.
I am a respiratory provider in Southern California since the mid 1990's.
We have been providing a non-delivery model for oxygen patients (read patient fill systems, e.g. Homefill, Ultrafill) since they first came out. I typically have a large inventory of homefill's and concentrators on hand.
I can get my hands on any parts still made, manuals, tips, tricks, or anything I can do to help.
I usually post my excess equipment on craigslist, and in the last 24 hours had 3 inquiries about homefills for the glass blowing community. That is how I found out about this forum. I sold 2 by walk in yesterday.

I have 35 homefills in excess at the moment, along with their corresponding platinum 5 concentrator. I closed my LA warehouse and I am currently palletizing my excess inventory.

If you would like a homefill, invacare concentrator, 5 LPM, 10 LPM, let me know.

Here is a tip for you, if your platinum 5 is alarming for purity, check the 4 way valve, the old style with the chrome ball bearing tends to crack. Good news, lifetime warranty on most of those. It gets sent back as a core to Invacare, and you get a new one. The most important filter to change is the small round filter, not the hepa.

I ship portable concentrators around the country every day, so sending a homefill or a stationary unit would be no problem.

Deez

03-17-2012, 05:08 PM

what kind of prices we talking about. for a concentrator+homefill set up?

apixdesign

03-17-2012, 05:24 PM

If its a good price il buy a homefill!

drew1492

03-17-2012, 07:07 PM

So being an oxygen company what is the main difference between the homefill and homefill II I have never used an original homefill?

Denial

03-17-2012, 08:03 PM

I've been waiting for a homefill for awhile now, just not ready to spend over a grand to be able to start filling my tanks.. So, I'm also waiting on prices, I'd really like to get one of these thought if it's within reason ( to me ) lol.

styles1 torchlife

03-17-2012, 08:47 PM

prices?????

OxygenTech

03-17-2012, 11:01 PM

The first and second generation homefills had a few differences, I would say there are more likely at least 3 generations. Most of the improvements if you could call them that were on the patient side of things. The very first generation did not have a regulator built in. The bottles were meant to be used by the patients with a battery operated conserving device that extended the useful life of the oxygen in the tank...blah blah blah. Then the bottles had a Precision Medical OCD (oxygen conserving device) fitted. That was nice, because the patient didn't have to change a regulator. Patients dropped the bottles and broke the oxygen nipples off, so the next improvement was a black cover over the nipple. On the compressor side of things the size of the coupler was reduced and green dots added to reduce the number of questions related to "is the bottle on the compressor' from our elderly population. The connection from the concentrator to the compressor, formerly a straight tube, now a tube curled like an old hard line telephone was also a change. The color of the base changed from maroon to black fairly recently. As far as changes internally, I will take a photo of a older and newer unit topless.

OxygenTech

03-17-2012, 11:08 PM

As far as price, I would propose to offer a Homefill, concentrator, and 'whip', complete and shipped for between $850 and $900. I should have some solid prices on the whip after speaking with the company who fills my tanks for me next week. I probably also need to consult our attorney as to the liability of providing a complete 'whip' to an end user or just the parts that may be assembled at the user's discretion...hmm.

JDeMoss

03-17-2012, 11:17 PM

How long would it take to fill a k tank roughly? And if I already have a concentrator, how much for the homefill and anything else I would need to fill my tank?

Thanks

CHSWIIMV

03-18-2012, 10:40 AM

I'm wonderin what JDeMoss is wondering ^^ . How much for just the Homefill and necessary equipment? Im in Los Angeles though so I could pick it up from you to save some shipping costs.

akmewon

03-18-2012, 11:07 AM

guess i cant read

Monkythrowpoop

03-18-2012, 01:13 PM

I think they're asking how much without the concentrator.

puddletown

03-18-2012, 11:12 PM

How much are they for a walk in deal?
And can ya cut us a little deal if we get two complete setups?

OxygenTech

03-19-2012, 07:11 PM

Sorry for the slow response to PMs. I usually put in long days at the office, and have a busy other life coaching and being an umpire for little league baseball, making lunches for and doing homework with 2 boys. On top of all that I have a crucial RFP that must be completed in order to continue to service a large segment of my respiratory patients. The RFP part will at least be over with by the end of March, so if I'm a bit slow responding, that is why.

Now, onto some interesting homefill for the glass blowing community news. I had a visit by another member of Talkglass, and spent a fair amount of looking at some designs as laid out on the forum. My goal is to see if I can refine the connections a bit, get good pricing on the bits I need from my suppliers, get 'what if' technical questions answered to my inside tech support guy, and test several different concentrators at various PSI to find the best combination of concentrator and homefill.

If all goes well I'll be filling my first H tank (~7100L ) tomorrow, and then I can have a baseline.

As I told my visitor today, there are a number of things that can effect he performance of an oxygen concentrator, one of which is the other load on the circuit to which the homefill and concentrator are plugged into. I'll run my tests on dedicated lines.

OxygenTech

03-19-2012, 07:13 PM

How long would it take to fill a k tank roughly? And if I already have a concentrator, how much for the homefill and anything else I would need to fill my tank?

Thanks

Shoot me a PM please.

OxygenTech

03-19-2012, 07:14 PM

I'll have the 'necessary equipment' part of that figured out hopefully by tomorrow, and I'll get back to you both with an answer.

CoreysCollectables

03-19-2012, 10:33 PM

I was the visitor to OxygenTech's warehouse today... and what a pleasure! We discussed several of the oxygen filling ideas that we saw here on The Melting Pot. To respect the privacy of OxygenTech and his business in the medical field, I will not post his private information, rather I ask that you PM him using this social networking website.

A little back story. I was in search for a way to fill my tanks just like everyone else browsing these forums. I had done extensive research in to what type of system would best suit my needs. After many, many hours of reading and researching this topic, I concluded that converting a Homefill unit was my best option. And so I started my search. Naturally I turned to craigslist. Weeding thru the mess of private sellers, I found OxygenTech. A real professional in the field. Helping him discover the untapped potential for his refurbished oxygen equipment, he went on to creating an account here to share the news. There's a new place in town to get your Oxygen.

As a glass artist, there are really only a few major places to get an oxygen concentrator or compressor. They are all refurbished units sold as new. The only way to get an absolutely new unit is to have a medical perspiration. Lucky for us, we aren't breathing this stuff, we're burning it! So a used unit will do. But then the question truly is, "How used?", and "Who refurbished it?".

This is where I will give OxygenTech and his company my full recommendation. Not only was he very polite in answering any questions I had over the phone, his customer service in person was outstanding! He was happy to open up both Invacare units to show me how they worked, what commonly goes wrong, and how to do basic maintenance. He went thru the machines to get me the one's with the lowest hours... (Homefill: 38 hours! and the Platinum 5: 2200 hours) Each of these units are rated for so much more: Homefill:5000h and P5:50,000h. He even tossed in the hoses, the stand, and a couple extra filters to keep me going. All in all, OxygenTech and his team are total professionals that stand behind their products.

I can feel confident in my purchase because I know that in a couple of years, when I need some parts for servicing my units, or have any questions in the meantime, OxygenTech and his team will be there for me. After the experience I had at his warehouse today, I can highly recommend that you get your oxygen equipment from someone who services and maintains these units on a daily basis! There is no aftermarket reseller that has the insider knowledge that OxygenTech does.

I cannot say Thank You enough! OxygenTech listened to my needs and concerns, and addressed them all. From the professionalism to the customer service, OxygenTech and his team are simply the best. Make the right choice, get your oxygen equipment from someone that cares about you. Private Message OxygenTech today!:bouncy:

Much love and many blessings,
Corey M.

www.CoreysCollectables.com

Now, onto some interesting homefill for the glass blowing community news. I had a visit by another member of Talkglass, and spent a fair amount of looking at some designs as laid out on the forum. My goal is to see if I can refine the connections a bit, get good pricing on the bits I need from my suppliers, get 'what if' technical questions answered to my inside tech support guy, and test several different concentrators at various PSI to find the best combination of concentrator and homefill.

If all goes well I'll be filling my first H tank (~7100L ) tomorrow, and then I can have a baseline.

As I told my visitor today, there are a number of things that can effect he performance of an oxygen concentrator, one of which is the other load on the circuit to which the homefill and concentrator are plugged into. I'll run my tests on dedicated lines.

CoreysCollectables

03-20-2012, 02:22 AM

:bangHead:Damn Spellcheck... I clicked on the wrong option. ***The only way to get an absolutely new unit is to have a medical ***prescription***. Ahh... Just had to get that out.

Icarus

03-20-2012, 03:53 AM

:bangHead:Damn Spellcheck... I clicked on the wrong option. ***The only way to get an absolutely new unit is to have a medical ***prescription***. Ahh... Just had to get that out.

I was wondering about that.

Samson

03-20-2012, 05:08 AM

Might want to start working on that vendor badge just in case you haven't heard about it. Welcome to the forum. I want one so I'll be keeping a eye on this thread.

saw a post by Mer with this in it: http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24912 - hope it helps 8)

Deez

03-20-2012, 07:15 AM

Im a little weary of this everyone. This coreyscollectibles guy, has gone through and posted the same thing he posted here in at least 3 other threads about homefills that i have seen. Anyone else think that is a bit odd??? Both new members joining within the last month...... sounds fishy just saying.

glasspope

03-20-2012, 12:45 PM

Looks like he even is applying for a venders badge

Deez

03-20-2012, 01:14 PM

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30912&page=3

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26729&page=7

sorry but too strange

CoreysCollectables

03-20-2012, 02:55 PM

OVglass, and Glasspope, I hear and understand all of your concerns. I spent a lot of time writing what I thought was a very fair and complete analysis of my experience. I posted the same thing in a few different threads because I wanted to try to help out a new friend. I am sorry if my copy and paste idea to the other threads makes you a little weary, I just wanted to get people to his page. Everything I told you about how I met him and the rest of it is true. I know my last post seems like a sales pitch, but that's because I am also a professionally trained sales person. I used to teach, train and manage sales teams.

OxygenTech is an amazing guy. He and his company are for real. I drove over an hour from San Diego, CA to Laguna Hills, CA to meet him. I became a member here to do more research on the Oxy filling systems you guys discussed. I did in fact purchase a homefill system from OxygenTech. My experience was so awesome, I had to share it with you guys. When I went to go see him yesterday, He told me he had created an account and started a thread. I told him that I would write an amazing review to help him out.

I receive no endorsements, royalties, or any other form of compensation form OxygenTech or his company. Besides having his number in my back pocket for any maintenance on my oxy equipment. We had a discussion about how the medical industry is taking a big hit and I was helping him to see the potential of the glass and jewelry industries. He is currently working on putting together all the parts for a manifold so I can hook up my system and fill my bottles. He is doing this in the interest that it would make it easier for everyone else to just start filling instead of the downtime of finding parts.

Yes, I am new here. Yes, OxygenTech is new here. But hopefully you can understand that we are 2 different people. I am a glass artist in San Diego, he is a respiratory specialist in Orange County. And we have craigslist to thank for helping me find him. I just wanted to help out everyone that has helped me out along the way. So I connected OxygenTech to the glass community.

After he has time to figure out all the legalities of selling medical units for industrial use, I am sure he will release his full contact information. I just didn't want to violate his privacy so soon. OxygenTech is a good guy and I speak from the heart. I promise. I hope this helps ease your concerns.

Once I have the connections and the manifold in place, I will take a photo of my filling system to show you that I am not kidding. I have 4 large bottles, larger than K tanks... they are 300's not 250's. My fill times and such will be greatly different than most of you, however my theory will work on any size bottle. I want to fill the back 3 and work off the front 1 bottle. Then when the 1 runs out, just bleed over the back 3 and it fills the volume without reducing the pressure as much. I will take photos and keep you updated on how my system is coming together.

Much love and many blessings,
Corey M.

If you still don't believe me... check out my website... I'm just a glass artist, like the rest of you.

www.coreyscollectables.com

glasspope

03-20-2012, 03:30 PM

Abit strange

CoreysCollectables

03-20-2012, 03:49 PM

Glasspope, No worries. I understand completely. I was almost ripped off by a privet seller before I found OxygenTech. What built my confidence in him at first was the fact that he is a real business with a website, phone number, and staff. I don't post it yet because I don't want to put his medical business in jeopardy. Oxygen is a prescription drug and the FDA does not take it lightly when you sell it to someone other than a patient. He was able to answer tons of my questions form technical data to oxygen filling theories. I am sorry if my copy and paste method seemed a little weary, but sometime if you said it right the first time, there is no use in retyping it. It takes so long to type, spellcheck, and re-read multiple replies to the same questions.

I know that you will not be disappointed with OxygenTech. Just give him a little time to figure out the legalities. As I stated, he is working on putting together a full kit that includes an OxyCon, a homefill, extra filters, and a manifold for other glass artists. The industrial oxygen uses are a new field for him. But I'm sure he will be up to speed very soon. Please just give him some time, I'm sure he will give out his other contact info when he is ready. After getting introduced to the glass industry, he has already sold 4 homefill units! So I'm sure he want to service this industry, it just getting the legal details together.

Warning: Copy and Past from another post below.

I would like to take this moment to thank MetalBone and others for doing such in depth research on the Homefill systems. After reading these threads, I went on to find and build my own Homefill system. This is how I met OxygenTech. But without your research, I would still be looking at the EX2000! So, Thank You a million times over. I know this thread and others like it are a serious help to our fellow glass artists. You have done a great service to the community! Keep up the good work.

I will post more on the development of my system as soon as I get the manifold in place. Thanks again!

Oh, and BTW Metalbone: did you know that there is a 20psi output on the back panel, bottom right on the Platinum 5. It looks like a service port or drain! The hookup in front is for the patient to breath while their bottles are being filled. Just thought you should know since I saw your pics with the hose coming out of the front.

Much love and many blessings,
~ Corey M.

www.coreyscollectables.com

glasspope

03-20-2012, 04:42 PM

Very nice info corey sounds good let's waite and see

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 05:54 PM

Ok, as I said, I'm a little busy with some other things at the moment, but I did manage to get my own whip created after visiting with the company, Spectrum Gas Products, that fills my medical tanks. Between the OCFA, the FDA, and drug manufacturing license in CA required to fill my medical tanks, what with lot numbers required and all I find it much easier to pay someone else.
I told Spectrum what the glass community was up to and asked if he'd look at the schematic I pulled off the site, offer insights and give me some advice.
What I came away with was 2 very basic whips and a better understanding on how to make more complicated set ups. The more complicated, the more expensive. I left with 2 CGA 540 pieces and one 48" piece of high pressure line. I'll post pictures of the bags. The one piece I didnt get and am kicking myself for was an inline T adapter (t. The whip as I first put it together had homefill adapter on one side, and the 540 on the other, very simple, just plug into the homefill connection and screw onto the tank. Doh!, I cannot see the pressure, and a simple solution is to use the 'T' adapter to install a gauge. I have a plethora of 1/8 NPT valves from old regulators, so with an adapter1/4 to 1/8 I can use the gauge. I'd rather use stock that is sitting around then buy new.
I borrowed a type of a T from one of my 15 LPM H Regulators and can now watch the progress on my fill.

So, the fill, how fast I have been asked. Well, I personally have not known until now. I started at 3:45PM today on an empty tank, I'll keep you informed.

From my call into Invacare Tech services about the possiblity of souping up the homefill performance.

The homefill requires 14-21 PSI in order to fill. The fill ports on homefill capable concentrators will put out between 14 and 21 psi. The front nipple that is typically connected directly to the patient is a 5 PSI port, and would be a bad idea to use (and will not work according to Invacare Tech).
Also, 2 LPM max is what the homefill will draw from the concentrator, makes no difference if the unit is a 5 or 10 LPM machine.

As a point of interest, for medical tanks, the tanks are vacuumed prior to filling to ensure there is no contamination or moisture. We us 50 PSI compressors for some specific patient needs, I asked if that was sufficient to clear a tank, and the guys who fill them said it would work, but just take a while. They use a larger machine. I don't know if any of you ever considered doing that prior to a fill or not, it is not required for industrial gases, but Spectrum for example, just does it as a part of there process regardless.

Back to the Whip, if you wanted to make a more complicated fill line, the only thing stopping you seems to be your imagination. A glass blower who just bought a homefill has an ideal set up where he will be running 4 tanks in series, all going back to his torch, with a series of shut of valves, so he "never has to touch a wrench again".
I'm only setting up a single station, one at a time set up, basically, so I can field test this thing for me.

Pictures to follow.

Also, seems as though something is stirred up, and sometimes that just happens. Sorry about that.

For any of you who would like to see what the future of medicine looks like I encourage you to go here, see what I'm dealing with now and what everyone else will be dealing with in about a year.
Fun Stuff, and directly where my priorities and energies are until the end of this month.
http://dmecompetitivebid.com/palmetto/cbic.nsf/DocsCat/Home

My partial cost, without the T or gauge for my whip was $50. But, then again, I have the internet, so I'll see If I can find cheaper prices for the things I am using currently. No part number on the high pressure line, sorry.

I have not had a response yet from legal or my GL insurance agent, but, if I can work it out I'll put the packages on my ecommerce site which has been up for 10 years. The only thing on that site is oxygen concentrators, we specialize in portable units, but none of those would work for your torches!

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 06:38 PM

Here are a few pictures of what is going on at the moment, and the part numbers.

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 06:43 PM

and the homefill filling the single H tank, 4' whip, with the pressure gauge inline.

glasspope

03-20-2012, 06:50 PM

Looks like your really getting into it can't waite to try out the finished product

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 08:13 PM

At 2.5 hours into the fill I was 250 pounds, we will see if the unit continues to fill, I'll not be in to check until about 7:45 tomorrow morning, so that should put me at about 16 hours, we will see where we are on our fill.

Alfred

03-20-2012, 09:08 PM

Why's everyone so tired?

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 09:14 PM

Nice vase Alfred, not sure about the tired comment.

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 09:17 PM

How long would it take to fill a k tank roughly? And if I already have a concentrator, how much for the homefill and anything else I would need to fill my tank?

Thanks

I am doing a fill test now, I will post results in Liters per hour, which should have some continuity over different size vessels.

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 09:19 PM

I'm wonderin what JDeMoss is wondering ^^ . How much for just the Homefill and necessary equipment? Im in Los Angeles though so I could pick it up from you to save some shipping costs.

You can absolutely come pick one up, pick the unit you want. PM me for my business address.

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 09:20 PM

How much are they for a walk in deal?
And can ya cut us a little deal if we get two complete setups?

Yes!! Walk in deals saves me shipping and packing ETC!
2 for deal, yep, even better.
PM me, I'll give you the business phone number and address.:D

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 09:36 PM

How long would it take to fill a k tank roughly? And if I already have a concentrator, how much for the homefill and anything else I would need to fill my tank?

Thanks

I am doing a test right now, I'll have answers in the morning.

OxygenTech

03-20-2012, 09:44 PM

I will need to start an FAQ about Homefill operation, I think I'll post a manual, as well as the service manual for the concentrator and homefill.

Tip 1,
When operating your homefill, use the homefill port, set the LPM on the patient oxygen port to at least .5 LPM and no more than 1 LPM.
Tip 2, when you first turn on your oxygen concentrator, in preparation for filling your tank, set the LPM to the max, 5 LPM for example and let it run for about 5 minutes. You'll see in the manual that the unit will recommend 30 minutes to 'warm up'. This high flow will help clear out the storage tank that is located between the two sieve beds. Once the unit has run for a bit, turn the LPM down to at least .5 and not more than 1 LPM. THEN TURN ON THE HOMEFILL. Otherwise, as some of you may have discoverd, there is a pesky 'OXYGEN BELOW NORMAL' alarm that comes on the homefill.
Tip 3. On Invacare concentrators, the ball is in the middle of the target LPM. Many other concentrators have the ball rest on the line that defines the LPM, Invacare splits the line.

Emmett's Glass

03-21-2012, 12:10 AM

Are there any uses (more than scrap metal value) for the aluminum homefill tanks after the nipple has been removed? What about an extra tank with the nipple still intact?
E

CoreysCollectables

03-21-2012, 01:22 AM

I was thinking about it and I may want a second setup. Either a duplicate unit, or get an Ultrafill setup. I would do this for several reasons. If I was under high demand for oxygen, high production, I may need faster fill times. My second thought was to alternate the usage, to let one unit rest for a little while. This would reduce the wear and tear on each machine. So neither one will run 24/7. Maybe like every 36 to 48 hours, switch off? OxygenTech, What are your thoughts on this theory?

Hollister

03-21-2012, 04:54 AM

Do you do rebuild exchange?

OxygenTech

03-21-2012, 05:51 AM

Do you do rebuild exchange?

We repair our concentrators and homefills in house for a number of problems, and mostly those with easy solutions. If a unit needs a compressor rebuild or a new sieve bed, I have a local guy to me, in Riverside county, Homecare Tech Services, who does that work for us. He works on all types of units, last time I spoke to him, he quoted me $80 for a sieve re-pour, no matter what concentrator, with quantity 8.
He does work all over the country, he was telling me about a company that was shipping him product from Delaware.

OxygenTech

03-21-2012, 10:39 AM

Are there any uses (more than scrap metal value) for the aluminum homefill tanks after the nipple has been removed? What about an extra tank with the nipple still intact?
E

There is more value in tank than just the nipple, yes. The valves have built in conserving devices (regulators that delivery oxygen on demand). I buy the nipples separate. A homefill bottle with a tank attached would cost more than simply filling a small oxygen bottle with the CGA540 thread on it. There is no reason you could not fill one of those smaller bottles, to 2000PSI, for a more portable use.
Say, for a demonstration or trade show or something.

OxygenTech

03-21-2012, 10:40 AM

750 LBS @ 7:30 when I checked.

Emmett's Glass

03-21-2012, 12:29 PM

There is more value in tank than just the nipple, yes. The valves have built in conserving devices (regulators that delivery oxygen on demand). I buy the nipples separate. A homefill bottle with a tank attached would cost more than simply filling a small oxygen bottle with the CGA540 thread on it. There is no reason you could not fill one of those smaller bottles, to 2000PSI, for a more portable use.
Say, for a demonstration or trade show or something.

I was thinking if you had use for such things, some of us got some extra stuff when we got our homefills off craigslist.
E

OxygenTech

03-21-2012, 12:36 PM

Are there any uses (more than scrap metal value) for the aluminum homefill tanks after the nipple has been removed? What about an extra tank with the nipple still intact?
E

I was thinking if you had use for such things, some of us got some extra stuff when we got our homefills off craigslist.
E

I would be interested!

Rockrat

03-22-2012, 07:15 PM

Homefills work great! Love mine.

CoreysCollectables

03-22-2012, 07:48 PM

styles1 torchlife

03-22-2012, 08:35 PM

Swampy

03-22-2012, 09:30 PM

What happens to the water vapor in the air when it is processed by the oxygen concentrator? Does the water vapor get ejected from the machine along with the nitrogen or are we just hoping that it does not build up in appreciable quantities? I can imagine that small amounts of water would be extremely harmful, corroding away at the inside of a tank that will at times hold up to 2000 psi.

Good question and very well presented. Personally, my plan is to keep a couple of rented tanks and swap them out every couple of months, keeping a record of the changes on a chalk board on the wall.

CoreysCollectables

03-23-2012, 01:01 AM

I recommend using a timer with the homefill. I do 6hrs on 30min off. cycling
And run 4 tanks in series up to 1000psi or 1250psi and it should run a long time and support a good sized torch like delta.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoreysCollectables
What happens to the water vapor in the air when it is processed by the oxygen concentrator? Does the water vapor get ejected from the machine along with the nitrogen or are we just hoping that it does not build up in appreciable quantities? I can imagine that small amounts of water would be extremely harmful, corroding away at the inside of a tank that will at times hold up to 2000 psi.

Good question and very well presented. Personally, my plan is to keep a couple of rented tanks and swap them out every couple of months, keeping a record of the changes on a chalk board on the wall.

Thank you both for your answers. Styles, I like the way you are thinking. I have 4 large bottles (300's) and had a plan to do the same. I am running a Herbert Arnold 40mm and a hand torch on the side. When a friend shows up, sometimes there is a third torch in the mix. I was thinking of putting a regulator manifold at the end of the chain to allow for 2 or more regulators to use the system. In theory, it should be in one side, out the other with some shut-off valves in between... I don't want to turn another wrench again! I will know soon if one homefill or 2 would best suit my needs. I still need to daisy chain the tanks together. I will keep you posted with pics and more info as my system develops.

Swampy, I hear what you are saying about swapping the rental tanks. My bottles are customer owned. I still need to make one more trip back to the welding store to make sure all of my tanks are swapped out for the one's with the yellow ID Ring. This insures that the bottle is in fact customer owned and you can swap it out anywhere. If it's not painted yellow, the tank is considered "asset owned" or a rental. You can only swap them out with that company. The welding supply store gets a huge fine for taking in a bottle that isn't theirs. Sometimes they don't have all customer owned bottles filled, so they give me asset owned one's instead. Since I now have this new system and won't be seeing them for a while. I want to be sure I am not locked in to any one company in the future. Who knows, they my delete my account cuz I haven't been in, managers will change, or I may move... Something ya know.

I may want to swap my bottles out once every year or so... It's not such a bad idea for safety. Kind of like swapping out the fuel and oxy hoses every year. Some things wear out over time. I am curious to see what OxygenTech has to say about the water vapor. It poses an interesting yet potentially dangerous theory. I wonder if the tank corroded from the inside, would it just leak or eventually explode during a fill?

drew1492

03-23-2012, 07:24 AM

I think the zeolite absorbs a lot of the moisture in the incoming air. I wouldnt be that worried unless I was in a high humidity area but would swap my bottles once or twice a year.

styles1 torchlife

03-23-2012, 09:34 AM

minerdude

03-23-2012, 09:35 AM

Why not just put in a small inline air dryer with blow down valve like most people use with large air compressor setups? Place it in between the oxycons and homefill unit. Shit do they make air dryers for pure oxygen? Time for more online education I guess.

drew1492

03-23-2012, 02:34 PM

Just a heads up for everyone, you can have whips and hoses, swivels ect. Put together at any hose warehouse that will make hydraulic hoses while you wait.

Drew figured this out... And it is a easy way to get the job done safely and cheaply.(AND SAVED ME SOME TIME)

I make no claims to figureing this out lots of people did this before me just in a different way. I just had an affordable supply of homefill II's.

Sorry for thread jacking

CoreysCollectables

03-30-2012, 11:29 PM

Just a little update... I have been filling my bottles one at a time while I search for the best pricing for the rest of the fittings. It is going painfully slow. I calculated out the fill rate and OxygenTech was right. It fills at 1.97 LPM (that's the 2LPM that he quoted earlier). Unfortunately this means that running the Homefill continuously will only fill 3 bottles a week (300's). It was taking just about 55 machine hours to fill 1 tank from bottom to top. I was getting faster fill rates after the 500psi mark but slows down after 1500psi. It seems to go faster from 500 to 1000 than it does 0 to 500. I guess it needs some preasure to build on. So don't completely empty your tanks. There's really nothing to take pics of just yet cuz you've seen it all before, one bottle, one homefill... I will post some pics once I have my other fittings in place. Because of the painfully slow fill rates, I am going back to get another Homefill from OxygenTech. I use 3 to 4 bottles a week without thinking about it... I need to be producing the stuff at a slightly faster rate than I am using it, and have enough stored on the back-end to support a full day's work every day... I'll keep working on it and get back to you.

BTW: I talked with OxygenTech on the phone the other day and we discussed some of the questions I had proposed on this site. He said that it depended on the relative humidity of the environment. I live next to the ocean and we do see fog from time to time. He assured me that this would most likely not be much of a problem. However, if I was concerned with this, I could get a vacuum and suck out any moisture from the system every 6 to 12 months. We talked about Minerdude's dryer idea, and he said that was a nice creative solution as well. We also talked about the normal wear and tear of these machines, that is 3 to 4 hours a day. As glass workers, we push them hard to keep up with our usage.

Much love and many blessings,
~ Corey M.

CoreysCollectables

03-30-2012, 11:53 PM

Oh and for the people that care about the #'s

1 bottle (300CUF) @ 55h (WTF!)
Average Life of Homefill: 6000h
Homefill Full @: 2000psi
Average bottles per Homefill: 100
Amortized cost of Homfill: $6/btl
Cost of electricity @ $0.11 Kw/h: $3/btl
Total Cost Per Bottle: $9/btl

This math isn't exactly perfect... I gave averages to make it easier to read, but you get the idea. I was spending $20/btl plus tax and fees. Then abut a 40mi round trip to go trade the suckers out. I am easily saving half of my oxygen monies! Let's just see how long this thing lasts. I have seen some of the other oxygen compressors out there and they are a bit more expensive, however could be worth the investment. Looking into the one from Hong Kong that I saw in another thread. Pricey thou. The homefills are defiantly an affordable way to get into the OxyCon game!

Running Constantly, the Homefill will reach 6000h in just a little under a year!
This is why I want to get 2 and switch off the usage... Keeping the pressure down around 1000 to 1500 will hopefully prolong their life a little bit as well.

There are many options out there for oxygen... you just got to find the one that fits your glass schedule and usage.

Swampy

03-31-2012, 11:50 AM

Good one. Thanks for doing the maths, it's a lot clearer to see the benefit. Especially like how I pay US$45 per 220 cu ft tank, soon I'll have the system set up here.

It says;
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CoreysCollectables again.

CoreysCollectables

03-31-2012, 04:48 PM

Thanks for the Reps Swampy! Much appreciated as I am just getting started here. If your usage is low, 1 Homefill will do, but if you blow glass for a living on a serious torch, then get 2 homefills. This is what I am learning. OxygenTech is going to figure out if I will need a second OxyCon or of 1 OxyCon will be able to run 2 homefills. If so I could save a little money on the OxyCon. I will get back to you with more info later.

I am glad that my experience is helping others. It was Metalbone's hard work years ago that I was reading thru and discovered that I wanted to try the homefill solution. We are all standing on the backs of giants. Thanks to everyone that makes this forum possible and everyone that participates. You are doing the glass community a great service!

Much love and many blessings,
~ Corey M.

T-Rex

03-31-2012, 06:22 PM

It's true, we all benefit huge from all that has been done and recorded here. But there's still tons to add, all the time.

I really appreciate you putting those numbers up, it's very clear to see the benefit. Thanks man!

drew1492

03-31-2012, 07:02 PM

cade

04-17-2012, 05:13 PM

curious if anyone can give me some help. I have an ex2000 compressor, same as the homefill from what I am reading. It is given to me as a loner while I ship mine off, but i need to make it work..everything is great it comes on...3 minutes into it the pump turns on ...I can feel a small amount of air pressure coming from the the hose that connects to the tank..it does build slightly, but doesn't fill or build pressure that the regulator shows...

I am suspicious of a sound coming from the area of the closest large white cylinder...maybe an air leak...I am not sure though...if it is only this cylinder..anyone know where I may find a replacement?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

hngntuf

04-23-2012, 03:58 PM

Without trying to hijack the thread, I ran across this link for service manuals on several oxy cons. Not usually provided to consumers. Hope it helps someone.

http://www.frankshospitalworkshop.com/equipment/oxygen_concentrators_service_manuals.html

Stephen

OxygenTech

05-09-2012, 12:43 PM

:DHey Guys, sorry for the hiatus, been crazy at work. The good news is I did get to run a number of experiments with different homefill units and concentrator combinations, and we have a winner.

The two obstacles I was trying to overcome, as relayed to me by Corey and a few other people who have purchased homefills to fill their own large tanks was

1) reduce overall run time of the unit. The idea being shortened run times will last to equipment longevity.
2) increase the speed of fill.

To tackles these problems we started with a single concentrator and single homefill option, looking to see if we could get better performance from the most basic set up.

1) Knowing we get a max of 5 LPM out of a 5LX and 2 LPM of the 5 LPM are directed to the back homefill filling port, we looked to add some of the remaining 3 LPM coming out of the front of the unit. Well, we cannot. :bangHead::bangHead: Firstly, the front unit is set to a pressure of 5.5 PSI typically, and though we can adjust the pressure of the unit up, we are going to hit a road block. Even if we managed to get the pressure above 15 PSI we could not successfully add to the homefill ports oxygen for a couple reasons, the main reason being the unit's auto shut off. If the front port is occluded, as in the hose to a patient was kinked or pinched, the back-pressure building up inside the tubing will auto shut off the concentrator. So even with a 15 PSI one way valve, the unit would shut off.

2) How about running the one concentrator with 2 homefills? :bangHead::bangHead: Nope. That was a quick experiment. The pressure coming out of the back of the 5 LX has to be between 15 and 21 PSI in order for the homefill to operate. both homefills would start to pump, but would quickly alarm to oxygen below normal. Neither homefill unit could keep enough oxygen to operate correctly.

3) How about 2 homefills and 2 concentrators. Well sure, that worked great, as you would expect we improved on the time to fill our dummy H tank significantly from a single homefill and concentrator. Both the concentrators homefill ports were linked together in a effort to equalize the pressures between the needs of the 2 homefills and the output of the 2 concentrators.:D:D

4) For our last experiment to date, and the best outcome by far so far, we used a combination of 3 concentrators and 2 homefills. :evilLaugh:evilLaugh The thought was that as the homefill is filling in it's acceptable PSI range of 15-21, there must be a greater performance reached at a fill of 21 PSI than a fill of 15 PSI. But what is that the difference. By adding a 3rd concentrator to the mix, we are not increasing the pressure, we are still only at 15-21 PSI attained as the sieve beds cross over, but now, we have added more volume, more mass, with the introduction of the 3rd concentrator. So, in theory, we can be closer to the maximum pressure of 21 PSI inside the homefill intake more often and for longer periods, which will give us better performance. Well, it did. as of the first 7 hours we put in 800 lbs. With the smaller type of tanks like this unit is designed to fill, the first part of the fill always seems to go slowest. That is, the from 0-500 seems to take forever. Once you past that point, the unit typically seems to gain speed in the fill. We noticed the same result for our filling experiment of 3 and 2. As of 12:00 noon we were at 800 PSI, now less than 30 minutes later we are pushing 900 PSI.

****BINGO*****

The next logical experiment would be to use 2 concentrators and one homefill. I expect to get similar results at a minimum. The question becomes one of economics at some point. How many homefill / concentrator combo's do you want to run, how much oxygen do you use? With 2 concentrators and on homefill, you are putting all that extra mass into one unit, where with 3 concentrators and 2 homefills, you are splitting the mass between 2 filling systems.

To connect the concentrators together we used brass airline t valves from PetCo and connected them with black airline tubing. The tubing is not the most durable, and I used it out of necessity. If I were making some more permanent set up, I think I would find similarly durable hose as the Invacare supplied tubing.

There are 2 types of Invacare homefill tubing, straight, and a thinner curled tubing. For our experiment we used the thinner curled tubing as I simply could not find enough brass T-Vales in the diameter of the Invacare straight tubing.

Make sure you clean your brass T, and wash your tubing in simple green or something similar to remove any oil. ...Best practices you know!

I'll include some picture of our rig as we have it.
If currently have a homefill set up, you may look to soup it up a bit by adding another concentrator.

Cheers!

OxygenTech

05-09-2012, 08:49 PM

So, H tank filled in 15 hours.

quix

05-10-2012, 09:06 AM

Right on, digging the experimentation. I dunno if the info helps but I am running 2 homefills of of a single 20psi 8lpm airsep newlife intensity. To run the system I disconnect the oxycon from the compressors and power them all on for about 10 minutes to let them all warm up. Once they are warm I connect the hose from the oxycon to the compressors and both compressors kick on and start filling 2 K tanks. I am not sure how long it takes to fill as I just turn the system on when I start working and turn it off or leave it over night depending on how much oxy was used. There is a CC and a Phantom utilizing the oxy in my shop.

OxygenTech

05-10-2012, 09:22 AM

That's great information, thanks for sharing. I'm going to be experimenting with all the concentrators I have now. I like that the Newlife is not causing you a problem when your attached to the oxygen port. The Invacare 5lx's don't like when pressure builds up too much, they beep and shut down. I just got off the phone with another glass blower and I'm going to try an inline 20 psi relief valve to see what else I may be able to get working. It would be great to run a single 10 LPM concentrator at only 10 amps and quickly fill a tank. Results to be posted later.

OxygenTech

05-21-2012, 09:17 AM

Anyone with experience using an AirSep 8 LPM machine @ 20 psi to fill a homefill? That is where we are headed now as far as experiment. If someone already has it finished, and can share your design, that would be great.

CripSkillz

08-05-2012, 11:33 PM

Yo Oxy Tech I neeed bearings bad ASAP can you help??// all 3 center bearings main crank shaft fo shooo,, the r6 groved top bearing also ,, and bottom if ya have it ,, ,, im outa commish for bit,,, locked up on friday,,,now im just sittn round smokin.. prob link up 3 or 4 of these oxy cons till i get parts..

thx CriP

oh ya I been T'ed off 2 5lpm invis runnin 3.5 lpm ea,, was workin great doooooh

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/34655061/IMG_20120805_232810.jpg

OxygenTech

08-06-2012, 12:40 PM

OK, where are you located?
I can probably get you parts from a junk unit.
PM me.

CripSkillz

08-06-2012, 12:59 PM

Awesome thx u and I'm in Slo county like 4 he's north of you... pm now...

PhantomCoral

08-06-2012, 01:18 PM

How much do you sell individual whips for?

dukerussell

03-05-2014, 08:34 AM

Do you still have any homefill stations left? I am really interested in buying one if you still have some or know where to get a decently priced one

istandalone24/7

03-05-2014, 09:13 AM

Instead of resurrecting a 1.5 year old thread, i'd start here if i were you:

http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?53983-5-invacare-homefills-for-sale

Cheyetalkglass

10-26-2014, 08:29 PM

Do you still have these available?

OxygenTech

10-26-2014, 09:11 PM

Do you still have these available?

I do, they are just more expensive, now.

IN demand for healthcare.

perrlywites

10-27-2014, 11:20 AM

How much is a complete set including the whip cost shipped? very interested.

PyroChixRock

10-27-2014, 11:32 AM

OxygenTech

10-27-2014, 12:39 PM

I'm not sure if we started the vendor badge thing before this thread or after, but looks like you'll need one if you want to offer these to people here. It's easy, just pm me info customers would need to contact you outside the forum. Name, phone number, address, email, websites if you have them. thanks :)

depends on how many total you would want.
A 2 concentrator to one homefill is good.
a 3 concentrator to 2 homefills is best.

Low hour and or refurbished concentrators (new sieve beds, new compressor valves, and new 4 way valve)

are $500 each

Homefill units are $850.

Whip is $100

shipping is my cost, which is for the most part cheap, as i ship a lot.

neddowerx

10-27-2014, 06:48 PM

neddowerx

10-27-2014, 06:50 PM

I run a kobuki, and would love to make the most of the third stage :)

neddowerx

10-27-2014, 06:53 PM

I was also told to regulate the front meter at 1-.5 while filling tanks for better fill times, is this true? Sometimes it seems to work better at 1.5-2psi on front meter but havnt timed that.

OxygenTech

10-27-2014, 06:56 PM

I was also told to regulate the front meter at 1-.5 while filling tanks for better fill times, is this true? Sometimes it seems to work better at 1.5-2psi on front meter but havnt timed that.

The unit will not fill a tank if the LPM is greater than 3.0. Since you are only using the fill port, not the port in front, turn your unit down to .5 or 1.0 lpm. That way you have more oxygen going to the filling system.

you cannot make it zero, they put a low flow alarm in that will go off if you do.

best of luck

neddowerx

10-27-2014, 07:01 PM

What about my other question about how to optimize my equipment, and can I buy attachments for my backup homefill? Also interested in how to hook 3 oxycons to 2 homefill? Thanks again for any help.

OxygenTech

10-27-2014, 07:23 PM

I need some help. First off I need the power chord and curling hose to connect top and bottom for one unit, I also have another homefill that has attachments that I use with a platinum 5 . I also have a platinum 10, and another invicare perfecto 5. I only have a wip for one setup aswel, with what I have in equipment what's the best setup I can make happen? As of now I run my centerfire off of my 10 and my mid and outerfires off of k tank filled by my one complete homefill setup. To fill my tank(s) ( I have 3 k's) , well just one takes a very long time(12 hours for 500-600psi) and usually only empty to 500 psi before re filling. I also only fill to 15-1800 psi as I heard that is less stressful on the homefills, both are homefill ll. Thanks for any and all info, so glad I stumbled upon this thread!

Sorry, didnt see all that.
The power cord you can grab anywhere.
The curled hose i could get for you.
Sounds like you have the makings of a great system.

Do you use the 10 for glass blowing by itself? or does it fill tanks?

Best solution is to daisy chain one extra concentrator per homefill.
So, 2 concentrators, 1 homefill.
3 concentrator, 2 homefills.

:P

I never tried 4 and 3 but i'm sure it would work great.

I am not sure if the pictures are still up for my 3 into 2 set up, but that is how i would rig it.

Make sure you are NOT trying to run all of this off of one circuit in your house.
When you put too many concentrators (drawing about 5 amps) on a circuit, performance is degraded and the machines may even error.

If you run this set up, separate 20 amp cirucuits would be best, 15 amp is fine.
If you have to run and extension cord absolutely go with a 12 gauge cord.

The only advantage you have running the 10 in this equation is the additional output you can gain from the front oxygen nipple.

For high flo patients requiring over 3 LPM and still ambulatory, we'll put out a 10 LPM machine.

Hope that helps.