really sweet glass pendants with hemp ropes!

[rockymountainhigh]

I have glass pendants with hemp ropes for sale. They are $5 wholesale or $10 retail which includes one pendant on a rope. I am attaching some pictures of them. The rope is very nice and thick and so are the pendants. The price includes shipping in the US. Let me know if anyone is interested. I have about 40 different designs. I am in Denver. My email is dtr101@hotmail.com. Have a good day.

David

[PalisadeGlassGallery]

I've seen a great deal of glass on hemp in the price range your offering around my area.. it appears to all come from Napal, India. Are you the wholeseller supplying this in the State of Colorado?

[PyroChixRock]

I was wondering why those were SO cheap!

[rockymountainhigh]

The glass and the rope are 100% US made. I am trying to sell it cheap to get business. I don't have much right now. If you guys know of anyone in need of some please point them my way. I have about 50 left but I should be getting more in about a week or two.. Have a good day and keep your torches on......

[PyroChixRock]

What else do you make?

[glasspapi]

getting more??? and not making more??? making as in lampworking, as in using a torch, your hands and glass?

[Jami H]

Okay I am going to do a semi-rant here, and David this is nothing personal towards you. Matter of fact is has nothing to do with you except you bring up a common subject: Sweat shop boro in the US.

I make boro beads and have been doing it for five years now. I just finished my third Bead & Button show in Milwaukee. I had the lovely experience of having a booth set up next to me selling what I "thought" were import boro beads. They were off center loopy type beads that are made off mandrel with color, a swipe of clear and then made into an off center bead. These guys next to me sold thousands and thousands of dollars worth of beads. I kept thinking they were going to run out but they kept pulling more stock out from under the table. I would not be surprised if they sold 25 to 30 grand worth of boro beads. I was so livid it took me two days to even look at them. I finally asked the dude who seemed to be in charge if they were imports and he said no they were all made in the US. I said, "well you certainly didn't make all of these" and he said that he made some, the guy with him made some and they had students make some. After talking with a few fellow boro workers we found out that this company has sweat shops in California where they "teach" underskilled workers lampworking. They teach by making them meet a quotoa of beads per day.
What really pisses me off is fellow bead suppliers, beadmakers and whomever buy these crap beads wholesale and then within 10 minutes have them marked up and selling them retail to customers. I am all for making money but as an artist who works damn hard I hate being cut out of my fair market share. Several people told me to buy some and just swallow my pride and make some money off these like everyone else but I just couldn't do it. I support US lampworkers by not selling out!!!

I have their website link but am not sure if I can post it here? Misha?

Jami

[Greymatter Glass]

Supply and demand buddy.... don't bitch, you can't change it.


You can, however, adapt. Start making your own crappy beads and sell them cheap. An unskilled lampworker can maybe make 8-10 sellable crap beads in an hour (with 20-30 attepts) You can probably make 8-10 per mandrel and do 100+ in an hour.

If you can afford an initial loss to sell the beads cheaper than they do, then you can alway just try to run them out at their own game.

Keep your higher end line just-in-case at the shows, but sell the stuff people are there to buy.

-Doug

[PyroChixRock]

You could post it jami but it won't do much good. Listen to what Doug said, one part in particular about the 8-10, cause you don't have to do it crappy. ;) Honestly, I wouldn't be giving out much more info then that in this thread...

[Greymatter Glass]

nothing that's not available in any book or video :P

[PyroChixRock]

Ya that is of course true....doh. It's a catch 22 anyway, in all regards.

[glasspapi]

how come when someone on this board mention sweatshops in india or china or some other country everyone chimes in and bitches...but when its a sweatshop in cali, oh its just unskilled lampworkers being taken advantage of.

[PyroChixRock]

well here people are treated a lot more fairly, they have glasses, ventilation, and safety breaks. :evil:

[Jami H]

Well, sorry for bitching. I know I cannot change it but I sure don't have to support it either. I won't sell cheap, I won't over saturate my market and I sure won't buy their stuff to resell it.
And don't think that the sweatshops here have safe working conditions either.

[Jami H]

Oh and that link is http://unicornegifts.com/store.cfm?event=showcatalog&catid=45876

[PyroChixRock]

:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

yuck...you were right thats aweful!

[Greymatter Glass]

looking at that site, I don't get it... what's so offensive on that site?

Are you bothered that you just can't sell your beads for what you'd like to get for them? Or are you bothered that this guy has a cheap product and you don't?

Nothing on that site looks particullarly under-priced (the minimum order is $150, it's a wholesale place) so I don't get what the problem is.....

it's cheap softglass...again... is this the guy who was undercutting you or whatever?

Sorry if I seem crass, but I'm tired of hearing people think their shits made of solid gold.

-Doug

[PyroChixRock]

Boro implosion pendants, 2 for $15...:sick:

*shits a solid gold brick* :rollin

[timinny420]

i might see how fast i can do em 20 implosions for 150 min order - how much should i be asking for these ??

[PyroChixRock]

You'd have to do a minimum of 8 an hour to make any sort of good wage at that price, by the common formula around here for beginner glass blowers. I have no idea what you make, so your wage might be higher then the common $1 a minute formula.

Wholesale, pendants like that should go for double that unless they are dropping mad cash on an order to get a good discount.. :rolleyes

[Greymatter Glass]

Guess the market in abq is just fucked then..... this is business, not art. I guess since it's a new forum, we may as well revive this? :sick:

7.50 / pendant... prob takes less than 10 minutes to make with a materials cost of around $0.15 each

(6 x $7.35)/hour = 44.10/hour; pay worker $10 an hour to make 6 pendants an hour with a $1 per pendant bonus after quota. rejects dont count. Rent, bills, and a titdy profit are left over.

This is in the same line as paying a semi-skilled craftsmen $8/hr to pour slip or glaze pots or whatever else you can get a job doing in the ceramics factories. Art / Studio potters dont worry about that, they have their own market, and their own shows.

Maybe that's the problem.... mixing factory and studio glass in the same show. I'd write to the people who host the show. Try to take part in more shows that feature solo / studio artists as opposed to wholesellers shows. As a very young child I went to wholesellers shows and it's a cut-throat world, there's not "positive energy, loving vibes, and spirit of community" unless you call coking up your clients, hiring them hookers, then selling them $15,000 worth of crap community spirit. (fashion industry, early '80s)


I wish everything was perfect, and if you can get a stable account with a few retail shops in trendy little tourist towns and such, you can do very well with pendants and beads on a small, one person scale. Without those accounts, you're going to flounder against these guys and there's nothing you can do abhout it.

You can stick to your principles and not support them by not buying thier product, but you'd probably have greater impact on your bottom line by finding a product in that price range you can afford to make and do so on a limited basis.

If you want to make Art you need a name, time, and money. If you want to make money you have to have a job; even if that job is spending 6 hours a day on your torch making $0.50 beands and $7 pendants.

Anyways, I'm sorry to seem discouraging....but just because you wont sell out doesnt mean no one else will. You can accept it and adapt or you can deny it and be opressed by it.

What else can you do? He's not breaking any laws, you can't call the cops. You can't shoot him, this isn't Iraq.


Anyways... Jami, I mean ya no disrespect and I'm not really focusing anything towards you at this point, just ranting in general so don't hate me.

I agree with you, I think $7.50 is a low price, it would be great to see him ask a bit more, and pay his workers a bit more all around... but I'm sure he's done his reaseach and knows what the market will bear.... there's forces at work here greater than any single lampworker...

Like I said, just look for shows he's not at.... I've done a lot of local craft-fair type of events and they're slow, but stuff sells...and eventually you make some better contacts.

Unless you can deliver 10,000 units on demand, you're not going to compete with this guy... but I hear what yer saying... just playing devils advocate

Maybe in a few years the craft market will revitalize and we can all sell $30 frit pendants, but till that day it's slim pickin's, we starve or make money other ways (selling cheaper, real jobs, race car driving, etc)

G/L tho

-Doug

[Jami H]

Doug
I appreciate your comments and thoughts on the subject. I really am not too freaked out about it now. At the time it was not a pleasant situtation. I have a fairly solid business already and don't worry about cheap boro with the exception of having to be next to them at major shows. Something like this can affect an unestablished person. If I was new to this show, I know it would have hurt me big time.
I know this topic has been talked about on the old site till everyone is sick of it, but most of those discussions were about imports. I don't think we've even seen the beginning of what the import and local sweat shop boro work is going to do. It's just the beginning..........

Jami

[skip]

good thread....

It can be frustrating when a sweetshop sales rep sets up next to you,... NO doubt....

It is a differenet market though than High end stuff. It is sad to see them keep lowering the quality of glass more and more.

I have seen sweetshops here in LA where 30 guys are working and there isnt a fan anywhere....We also have shops that pretty much only hire their own Nationality or race. We have Armenian, Chinese, Mexican sweatshops. It is wierd to walk into them. You think you're in another country, but so is living in LA anyways haha. I like the diversity no hater here. The sweatshop environment is just too wierd though....


Luckily there will always be a Market for high end expensive work.... It just takes a lot of work, both making it and marketing it.

I was at a retailers tradeshow (not an All glass event) a while ago that was very expensive to get into. I had to mark up alll my wholesale prices 30% to cover the costs of the show. Another lampworker was there also. He was selling $4 pendants THAT HE MAKES. I couldnt believe it. My cheapest was like $17 on leather with findings. He must average like $10 an hour after costs. He had 2+ inch vortex mibs for $40 too. It's not just sweatshops that hurt our scene.

[burnoutboy]

"Sweat shop boro in the US."

yeah that's on the west side, just up north

[Mr. Wonka]

In my opinion, when you hear complaints about “sweat shop labor”, people are just using that to sound like concerned humanitarians, when in reality, it all boils down to everybody wanting to get the most money for their work.

Look at every post on this forum from people who are looking for tools / supplies / equipment / etc. – Where can I find (fill in the blank) “cheap”….or, “at the lowest price”

Nobody has EVER said, Where can I find (fill in the blank) “made in America” …or, “from a small company that needs business”. It doesn’t happen- and probably never will. Why? Because when it comes to the bottom line ($$$), everybody wants to get the best price for what they need. That statement holds true for you as the manufacturer, and to shop owners / retailers.

It’s the same old double standard that has been discussed / bitched about again and again: It’s ok for ME to buy my products cheap… regardless of how and where they were made… but YOU should buy American and support the little guy… regardless of how much it costs. In a nutshell, that’s what you’re saying, and it’s not right. There are two options on the table: make better work than your import counterparts, or settle for a lower price.

Quote from glasspapi:

“How come when someone on this board mention sweatshops in India or China or some other country everyone chimes in and bitches...but when its a sweatshop in Cali, oh its just unskilled lampworkers being taken advantage of”.

For more logic that many of you don't want to hear, please read Doug’s (Greymatter Glass) posts in this thread…. He already did the math for you.

[rumplephorskin]

The only thing to do is accept that you have 2 basic choices; either fight to be king of the gutter or fight to be king of the hill !!! Either way it is NOT going to be an easy fight. Either way I feel your pain. If you feel that disgusted to realize that there is cheap boro out there then I hope you never decide to break into the pipe market. At least the only adversity the art glass and craft folks face is cheap competition. Try to figure out how to make a living when dealing with the federal gov't looking up your ass if you don't walk right. And depending on a bunch of greedy shop owners and unreliable stoners is no freakin picnic either. So basically; what I'm saying is things are rough all over and you better just be doing this because you love it. And if you love working with glass than do it with a passion and a fury and it WILL work out. Things are tough out there and you either gotta go pro or go home!!! If youre not satisfied with your piece of the pie then fix things or get a REAL job and become a weekend warrior.

[JDeMoss]

Here is my solution........ I don't put my glass pendants on hemp. For the most part hippy's don't have as much money (I know I'm generalizing). I put them on a nice necklace and market them to rich older ladies. People with money want nice expensive things. Take the time to make them nice and sell them for a lot of money. I don't do the volume, but my stuff is a lot more expensive than a lot of stuff I see. I just think my time is too valuable to waste making cheap stuff. I can sell a a necklace made with a nice boro pendant plus $15 of semi precious stones for $100-200. Or a nice boro pendant and a $3 silver chain for $40. Oh well....to each their own I suppose.

But I do cringe everytime I see people selling their glass really cheap. But if you want to treat your work like crap by selling it for $5....then I say your stuff is crap and I wouldn't be too proud of it.

[Sol]

i make little frit implosions for 6-8 bucks, hotcakes, but little flowers like those i would ell for 9-14 bucks wholesale.without necklaces.

[broken glass]

To me it seems like people found out to do implosions , and thought they would ride the gravy boat home. LOOK THESE ARE NOT HARD TO MAKE.
It would take me no more than one day to teach a guatamalen how to do them. So somebody got SMART and started a shop with a bunch of illegeal aliens, making easy ass pendants that people want(there is a market for this shit?!) Migrant workers are looking for steady labor, and don't ask for American wages. Win Win situation... it ain't like you will train him, and see him set up his own shop in a year(like an american worker) to try to fuck you out of your own market. So it is the natural coarse of things. Are there a lot of jelous people out there?? Bitter because their soft work does not cha ching like it used to. Well thats life. How long were these BASIC pendants supposed to hold their value. Should the mushroom pendant be worth 10 whole sale too??
By the way, those pendants look just as good as a lot of the pendants that are posted from time to time by forumers here. Their quality is good nuff. Shit I might just be the next mother fucker to set up a sweat shop and flood the market with cheap basic crap that is easy as cake to make.
I don;'t mean to be a dick, but my point is that it must have been nice to make these simple pieces, and make a nice profit, more power to you, player pimp on, but if you think that you can be stagnant, and own a style, without progressing, specializing, becoming unique, and think that you should still get paid top dollar, you are dumb as rocks, and deserve to be screwed over by the people smart enough business wise to have other people make a lot of shit so they can sell more shit for cheaper and still make more $$$
The baloon has burst, welcome to the real world.
O and JDeMoss, thats exactly what I am talking about, being unique. It is a truth that rich people don't want hemp, it doesnt; look expensive. I was trying to explain to this girl that there isn't a profitable market for hemp necklases. She got all pissed, said she wasn't going to make me one for christmas. LOL like i would wear some shit like that anaways...
Business is more than what you like to do, it is about $$. Some people get all confused because they would like their hobby to make money, well then choose the right hobby. There is a big difference between hobby and busine$$. Pimp the system, or it will pimp you.

[Mr. Wonka]

I (as well as others on this forum) have purchased pendants from rockymountainhigh for resale, and they’re definitely well made. Luke and I make pendants as well, and they have more detail… hence, selling for more money. It’s good to have lower cost items on the shelf because not everybody has the money for the higher priced items.

Brokenglass has a good point- for the most part, many people are upset that their “gravy train” isn’t chugging along at full speed, which forces them to make better / more innovative items (rocking the “comfort zone”). If you’re progressing in your work, then competition from “lesser quality work” shouldn’t be an issue. If you’re lazy and want to keep banging out the same stuff everyone else is making, then you deserve to get left behind.

I disagree with the notion that “WE” should keep the prices up on glass. In a way, that’s an attempt at price fixing. If all of the color companies got together and decided that color should sell for $75.00 a pound, how many of you would be comfortable with that?


Let’s do some math here:

Income: Regarding the “standard” $1.00 per minute formula- Take away a 15 minute break every hour (which is more than ANYBODY gets working a “real job”) - that would equate to $360.00 per day / $1800.00 per week / $93,400 per year for a 5 day work week.

Expenses: I’m a glass blower too, so don’t even try to tell me that blowing glass and paying your bills will cost you $60k per year. For argument’s sake, let’s assume it does. That leaves you with over 40k in disposable income. Let’s take away 1/4 of that for a margin of error… that’s still over 30k per year in extra funds…. More than some people make in an entire year at a “real job”.

In a nutshell, glass workers in general (myself included) are spoiled in regards to their income potential, choosing safety breaks and / or free time over doing something productive and profitable. Seriously- if some of you had to work a “real job”, would you have this much time to waste on a chat board? Would you have the luxury of setting your own hours? Could you get drunk / stoned on a weeknight until 3:00 AM, and still punch your time card at 9:00 AM the next (same) day without getting fired? Would you have the freedom to do what you WANT to do, as opposed to what you HAVE to do?

The bottom line is this:

-Be innovative, and use your talents and experiences to adapt to a market that is constantly changing (everybody else has to do that).

-Use your creative mind to find new markets and pursue them- there’s more items to make in glass than pipes, goblets, marbles, beads, and pendants.

-Use your time wisely, and work as hard for yourself as you would have to for somebody else.

-If you’re not up to the challenge, find a new line of work and quit complaining about how others- be it another country, or someone from the U.S.- are cutting into your income or lifestyle.


Nothing in this world is free or easy, so get out there and do what everyone before us has done (in EVERY industry), and be on the cutting edge in your chosen path- that’s what will separate you from the rest of the pack.

…Wonka

[steven p selchow]

:ohwell: Just a bit of history about the company above.

Jerry Hall started the glass unicorne co. back in the sixties, he was from Wheaton, Illinois. He was the largest wholesaler of spun type glass in the country. He primarily went to Mexico and bought tons of blown glass and spun work to his Anehiem California warehouse, where he re-sold this to american glassblowers who did the mall kiosk thing at x-mas, also non-glassblowers. Around 1970, he decided to open a gift shop here in my home town, a mid-west tourist town. Rather than have to import a lot of glass across the border, he had an idea to teach some local kids the trade, one of those kids was me. There were about 10 of us who learned the tecnique of spun or knitted glass in 1973, I learned in 1975, and seen guys come in the first day and never return, just couldn't hack it or pick it up, I persisted, I was an artist in school, and never let a challange go by. I fell in love with this medium, and never looked back, its been 31 years since that day, Jan 1, 1975 that i've been on this amazing rollar coaster of tears and fears and setbacks and great moments in glass, all but 2 of us left the glass world. Jerry opened up a satalitte warehouse in Chicago, and I did wholesale to him till 1983, and went out on my own, thinking I was good enough to make everything, I could make a lot, but not nice stuff. The chicago shop closed, Jerry Hall died and a guy named Mark bought the unicorne and took it in another direction, importing from China instead of Mexico, now a lot of these pendants are made there that are sold through the company, I suppose since I was one of the first, I could maybe show off some of my pendants to him, but I'd never get the price I want, and probably couldn't up with another account anyway, but I just wanted to give the history of how this company started, and where it has been, and pendants of this type will always be available for sale at a cheap price, their not as good as most of us, so what do you want to be? Cheap or good.

Steve

[andrew brown]

I had the pleasure of meeting the unicorn guy at lapidary journal show in philly a few months back... The exact thing happened as jami said... everyone was stunned, and offended then whipped out there wallets and bought them up to re-sell at their booth.. I questioned the man behind the booth and made him repeat some answers so i could make sure harold, bryan ,bobby and I could all hear.. he wouldnt tell us what colors he was using, said that there were multiple shops, he said they were all made in the usa,(mainly ca) but wouldnt answer when asked if they were made by us citizens... I guess it doesnt matter who makes them, or where, but I know there not gettin paid shit.... even at the website price thats 30c a boro bead, and im sure if you threw down a few grand your pendant price would fall through the floor. While people like this dont tend to bother me, there are a lot of things that are starting to... His booth was the first booth in the door at the show.... at a show that is supposed to be supporting unique and artistic work, not cheap mass produced crap that craps on all the lampworkers in the room... This did hurt a lot of lampworkers in the show having a boro bead importer/wholesaler the first booth you walk into. also the more money you make the bigger advertising budget you have, and so on... This is all ivevitable and the only thing that it can teach us is to work harder at a more unique item. I know that the show director was well aware of how everyone felt and hopefully things will change next year... One thing that I did notice is that the quality and diversity has definately progressed from what I saw about a year ago...
andrew
www.kbglassworks.com

[oxymoron]

" Could you get drunk / stoned on a weeknight until 3:00 AM "

A-fuggin-MEN brother . actually its 3:25 am ... inspiration time

[Marblemania]

This type of teaching/selling has NOTHING to do with Supply and Demand or helping others learn the Lampworking trade. It's all about GREED and being LAZY.

[PyroChixRock]

Haha I tricked your penguin holding the sign! :lol

[Merlin]

Is this true about beginners (around here) getting 60$ / hr on average? I had no idea. I am used to getting closer to 25-30 before deducting for materials. Even at that wage I dont have to work all day every day. Still, sometimes I forget how lucky I am and get a little lazy, but for the most part I just keep plugging away. There is still lots of room to make things work any way you want. You can make things cheap, spendy, unique, boring, whatever. Sure, it is best to be passionate about what you do and push the limits. But its not manditory to survive comfortably. I made things work for a long time making pipes in Eugene, Or. (super saturated market if you dont know what that means)

It sucks when stuff like that happens and there is no harm in venting about it. Its not like anyone is being forced to read this thread. Although it seems people feel that they are somewhat fed up with this topic, I dont think they are, judging by their lengthy replys.

anyway it really is too bad that the market is becomming more and more productionized. It is not benifiting many of us right now. Though it will be interesting to see what will come of it. It is inevitable that through this over saturation, consumers and people in general will become more educated about glass. Although this will help people to identify with us on the topic of skill and knowledge that is nessesary to produce high end stuff, I am guessing times will get really hard for us, as the oppertunity to be craftsmen dissapears. But following that, consumers new knowledge should spur interest in actual glass art. It will be like the pottery market, (art and craft completly seperate) I just hope people still have money to buy art when that happens.

These are good times.

[Paxton]

I think $1 a minute is a bit steep for a beginner. I was more around you Merlin when I started out. I also would never put pendants on Hemp rope because at the shows I go to, it would devalue the pendants. When I started I sold my pendants wholesale for $5, a little less than a year went up to $7, and after holding at that for a few years went up to $10-15, which is where I am at right now. I really don't think the market will bear more than that where I am right now (wholesale). When I first started making $5 pendants I was stoked, because I thought I was making bank. Of course now I realize that I wasn't, but I could make $100 for 5 hours of work as opposed to 41.20 pre-tax at a minimum wage 8 hour day. I personly think my beginning $5 pendants were nicer than the ones on the beginning of this page. I don't think that he could get more than $5 for them wholesale. If you want cheap pendants, you would be better off to buy them from India or China at super cheap. My friend bought a bunch of way nicer flowers for like $1.50 at Bonnaroo after he sold all of mine, and he came back and slapped them next to mine at the French Market, and still buys pendants from me. People still buy mine over theirs if they have the money. If not my friend makes a few bucks selling them something cheaper, which seems to make them both happy. Sometime's they ask why the price gap between the two, even though they know, and eventually make the decision they were going to to begin with. It doesn't bother me and I can't be too hypocritical when I buy Chinese tubing. I guess I would have to side with Doug and Wonka on this issue. That's buisiness. Anyway, I am doing that procrastination thing because it's cold outside and I don't want to go out to the shop. It is like 50 degrees outside and I am a Southern wimp when it comes to the cold. I guess I better go.

Paxton

[Merlin]

I am not just starting out though, I have been working for 6 years. Do you guys think I should ask for more than 25 - 35 $ per hour?

[rumplephorskin]

I think alot of ppl are full of shit about their hourly pay rate merlin. Ive been at it for 9 yrs and I make about the same as you sometimes more and sometimes less but usually right around 30.

[JDeMoss]

Anyway, I am doing that procrastination thing because it's cold outside and I don't want to go out to the shop. It is like 50 degrees outside and I am a Southern wimp when it comes to the cold. I guess I better go.

Paxton

Man, I wish it was 50 degrees here. Yesterday it was -6 degrees! :(

[Paxton]

I don't get $1 a minute either. $30 sounds about average wholesale. Retail I get that or more, but that's not including the show time and all that goes with it.