Exploding Diamond saw blade

[Dave Umbs]

So about a little over month ago I purchase a Resin Bond Diamond Wheel from Wale. I have been using it for is cutting slits for circ downstems. I have probable cut around 40- 50 circs on this blade, and figure it has been used for less then 5 hours.

I have had no problems till tonight when i was cutting circs. I was half way through one when the blade on the saw exploded sending fragments of glass and diamond blade everywhere. Lucky i was wearing glasses or i might be in the ER right now since my hands and face took most of the fragments. The saw had plenty of water and the blade was secured in place and was not loose, but also wasn't too tight. I also removed the blade after every use and dried it to prevent rust, which was to little avail.
I honestly don't know what happened. One second i am cutting a slit next second, their was a loud bang and i am getting pelted with fragments.

I am just wondering if anyone has had an issue like this with one of there blades?
I'm also wondering if there was something i could have done to cause it to blow up, or if i got a bad blade?

I need another blade now and i don't really want to drop another 250 bucks for something that is just going to blow up again after so little use. Or possibly destroy one due to my error or run the risk of hurting myself worse.
I plan on contacting Wale on Tuesday after Memorial day, in regards to this, but was curious for others insight.

Any insight or advice would be appreciated, id just like to figure out what caused this and would like to prevent it in the future.

Thanks i hope yall have a nice week and that it starts better then mine.

Here is a link to the blade i bought,
http://www.waleapparatus.com/catalog.asp?prodid=548030&showprevnext=1

Here is the blade after it exploded
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/dark25/IMG_0370.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f326/dark25/IMG_0372.jpg

[Greymatter Glass]

yikes.

I'd suspect user error is the most common cause of blade failure, but who can really say on a case by case basis without someone else there to catch a mistake?

You said you remove the blade between uses... I wouldn't, it greatly increases the risk of damage or improper mounting. If you're worried about rust use something like DiaCut or Crystal Cut that are water soluble rust inhibitors and/or you can spin the blade dry after use, then turn the machine off and hand dry it on the spindle... but taking it off every use, I just see problems with that.

Excessive feed rates, machine induced vibrations, improper water flow rates, torquing/binding the blade can all damage it resulting in a blowout like that....

And of course sometimes blades are just flawed from the start. It's important to inspect them very closely before mounting, note any chips or dings in the blade face or side... I would suspect that Wale would want to send it back to Jersey Diamond to inspect it for manufacturing flaws before offering you a refund, but stranger things have happened.

Good luck with it, those blades should last a lot longer, but glad to hear you were wearing safety specs!

-Doug

[somewhere]

I've seen it happen. Could have been a flaw in the rim did you inspect it carefully before you ever used it? I see the blade is worn on the sides is that from your water feed or are you making deep cuts? Anyway I doubt they will do anything for you. The thinner the kerf the more they are pron to get tweaked and let go. Wale does make a great sic blade in three gritts if you want something until you pull the trigger on another good blade.

[Dave Umbs]

yikes.

I'd suspect user error is the most common cause of blade failure, but who can really say on a case by case basis without someone else there to catch a mistake?

You said you remove the blade between uses... I wouldn't, it greatly increases the risk of damage or improper mounting. If you're worried about rust use something like DiaCut or Crystal Cut that are water soluble rust inhibitors and/or you can spin the blade dry after use, then turn the machine off and hand dry it on the spindle... but taking it off every use, I just see problems with that.

Excessive feed rates, machine induced vibrations, improper water flow rates, torquing/binding the blade can all damage it resulting in a blowout like that....

And of course sometimes blades are just flawed from the start. It's important to inspect them very closely before mounting, note any chips or dings in the blade face or side... I would suspect that Wale would want to send it back to Jersey Diamond to inspect it for manufacturing flaws before offering you a refund, but stranger things have happened.

Good luck with it, those blades should last a lot longer, but glad to hear you were wearing safety specs!

-Doug

Thanks Doug and Somewhere

I figure it was probably my mistake, but i really don't know like you said someone would have had to been watching me cut. I am inexperience in cutting glass though so chances are i fucked up.

Thanks for the advice and tips regarding the mounting and rust issue. I thought the rust was more of an issue then removing the blade and remounting and clearly i was mistaken.

I did not closely inspect the blade before use, so i cant be sure at this point if it was flawed or not.

I figure ill get in touch with wale and see what they say. I don't expect them to do much of anything. Since idk if i fucked it up or if it came flawed. If they did offer to do what you mentioned; it would be better then nothing. At this point the blade is just going to get thrown away. I doubt it can be repaired or is even worth it, its one of those situations when its better just get a new one.

(Edit) Im just see if i cant send it to jersey diamond and get it fixed for less then a new one and im going to grab one from them.


I've seen it happen. Could have been a flaw in the rim did you inspect it carefully before you ever used it? I see the blade is worn on the sides is that from your water feed or are you making deep cuts? Anyway I doubt they will do anything for you. The thinner the kerf the more they are pron to get tweaked and let go. Wale does make a great sic blade in three gritts if you want something until you pull the trigger on another good blade.

I did not inspect it carefully before use, it never crossed my mind to do so. Now i am kicking myself in the ass for not doing so.

In regards to the sides, id suspects its the water feed. Most of my cuts at the most are going only 2-3mm deep and id say on the less side closer to 2 . Id suspect the water feed Since I'm using a shitty home depot tile saw also.

I don't expect them to do anything and annoyingly i will probably, buy another nice one from them. Since i need one in short notice. I figure this will be chalked up to a costly learning experience, it could have been way worst.
Those safety glasses saved my ass tonight

thanks you two again for the quick responses, and advice and solutions I appreciate it.

[raul24]

I prefer metal bonded diamond blades to resin bonded, Had a couple resin bonded shatter but i've never had a problem with metal bonded.

[re-vit]

this happened to me and we lost maybe 1/16 of the blade. it was a real eye opening experience; i never cut with my face in the same plane as the blade any more. those resin bonded blades are so good at what they do, though... and judging by the rust on yours, (hopefully) it's made it's money back and then some. they are spendy, but well worth it. when i blew one up a few weeks ago, i tore apart the whole water feed system and HOLY SHIT both feed tubes were half clogged. I didn't even notice the loss in flow rate; it happened slowly. it ran like a champ, however, after all the lines were cleared with compressed air. also, add a few drops of bleach every once in a while, to prevent algae build up (which slows the feed).

[re-vit]

i didn't believe the algae problem was real until changing the water made all the difference when running a Speedster XL. i thought, "no way is there algae in there, there's no green" but yeah, it's in there messing shit up.
:chilling::chilling::chilling:

[Dave Umbs]

I prefer metal bonded diamond blades to resin bonded, Had a couple resin bonded shatter but i've never had a problem with metal bonded.

Hey, thanks ill check them out when i get in touch with Jersey Diamond and see what they say. If they are the same price ill grab one to try out.


this happened to me and we lost maybe 1/16 of the blade. it was a real eye opening experience; i never cut with my face in the same plane as the blade any more. those resin bonded blades are so good at what they do, though... and judging by the rust on yours, (hopefully) it's made it's money back and then some. they are spendy, but well worth it. when i blew one up a few weeks ago, i tore apart the whole water feed system and HOLY SHIT both feed tubes were half clogged. I didn't even notice the loss in flow rate; it happened slowly. it ran like a champ, however, after all the lines were cleared with compressed air. also, add a few drops of bleach every once in a while, to prevent algae build up (which slows the feed).

Thanks re-vit I appreciate the information.
I totally agree, with never cutting with your face in the same plane as the blade and if you are you should get a full mask or set up a shield or something. Literally all those fragments in the picture came shooting towards me. Not to mention the circ i was cutting literally fragmented into a thousand pieces and went ever direction.

The blade i had worked grade until it broke, always gave nice cuts with no problems i ever noticed till the failure. As for making its money back i'd say even by the second run of circs i did i was in the green. That is why i am not really worried about grabbing another since they work great and if you are actually using it frequently you can make quick cash. I just don't want to destroy another and have to keep buying the damn things. Since at this point i feel it was user error, though i still am unsure what i did since it could be a few different reasons as posted above.

As for the water feed, I'm using a cheap ass saw from homedepot. I think the blade is just being cooled by the water its turning through. I am not really unsure though.
I figure if i am going to cut stuff this often that i should just upgrade to one of those nicer MK saws. Id hate to destroy another nice blade, and i figure it could be shitty saw i'm using now. If its a error im making though it wont matter if i had the best saw in the world lol.
I'm going to clean the whole setup today though and see if that makes a difference once i get a new blade. The algae info was pretty interesting, that is something i would have never thought of.

Thanks again, take it easy

[gn0me]

You don't need an expensive saw to eliminate user error... once you've got a new blade I would check the alignment of the saw, since they can come crooked, especially from china, or just get bumped around or manhandled. It's very important that the table surface is aligned perpendicular to the blade, and the table motion is perpendicular to the blade. Cutting even on a slight diagonal applies pressure on the rim of the blade, and that type of flexing puts a lot of strain on the not-very-flexible resin.

Grab yourself a drafting triangle and first check that the blade is straight up and down compared to the table surface - just hold it against the blade and move it down to the table - if it's not square, the adjustment should be on the underside of the table , adjusting the wheels which ride on the flat rail up or down. Many saws are slightly out of alignment since it doesn't matter as much for cutting tiles.

The table should move back and forth square to the blade as well - this one causes big problems the deeper you cut. Set that same triangle, or your rip fence right against the blade, then move the table back and forth. If you move the triangle/fence to the point of just barely rubbing the blade, it should rub the exact same for the entire length of travel of the table. If not, loosen the bolts on the round rail, tap them in the direction that you need to in order to align the blade, tighten them again, and then check both alignments again.

Finally, there are some mods you can do to cheap saws to get them to cut glass better, since they were probably designed for tile. Check where your water is being applied to the blade - at the back of the guard, the front of the guard, or as some individual jets near the surface of what you're cutting (If it's just picking water up using the blade, buy a pump from a home improvement store! Your life will be 100% better!) Individual, well placed jets work best, and you can easily make an adapter out of glass and some vinyl tubing and some wire, then run the water pump to the front of the saw. I'd post some pics of my super shitty MK470 set up this way but I'm cameraless at the moment - it does cut through 44mm all day long when set up correctly, though.

[Role]

I do lapidary work, faceting and cabs.

I cut stone much harder than any glass, never had a blade break.

MK Diamond, continuous rim:

http://www.kingsleynorth.com/skshop/product.php?id=46658&catID=113

[Islandglass Man]

The wheel is from North Jersey Diamond Wheel I have used their 14" resin bond blades for a long time and I have never seen that much failure in a blade.

Once a blade is attached to the saw I never remove it. I true up the blade when installed and use it till it is gone.

If you are using a pistorous saw you can true - up the table, could help but I think to much pressure was applied to the blade or the bed was on a angle that pushed more on one side of the blade.

If you see any sparks when you are cutting each spark is a diamond coming off the blade.

I feel your pain $$$

Bear

[kc-216]

do you not dress your blade with a dressing stone?

[VertigoGlass]

I have had several resin blades explode in the past. One right out of the box upon initial turn on of the saw click wizz bang gone. The others that i have broken were user error. My harbor freight saw use to eat blades up left and right till i upgraded the water delivery system. Also for cutting circs in down stems and domes i generally use a gl-101 metal bonded blade from covington engineering. Luckily they are right next door from us so anytime we have blade issues they take care of us real nice like. Are you cutting your slits with the table or free hand? If you are going to step up to another tile saw type saw for the money the harbor freight. 10 inch tile saw is just as good if not better than the Mk101 and a 5th the price. The problem with tile saw when using the table is you are cutting on the bottom side of the blade. As it is turning it is wanting to grab and auto feed the piece into the blade. This is why the nicer saws cut on the centerline or above. The water isnt just for cooling but to flush debris away from the cut as well. I posted a few pics on a 75ish dollar upgrade for the HF tile saw in the cold working section. We have 2 HF tile saws and a MK101 and the HF saws see way more use than the mk. And as said above dress The blade often. Depending on what i am cutting i will give a light dress after each piece i cut. The dressing sticks are cheap compared to the price of th blade and will speed up your work as well as keep your cuts nice and clean.

[HomegrownGlassStudio]

All you guys talking about using crappy saws and then wonder why shits exploding.... theres a reason production houses buy 5k saws...

[VertigoGlass]

Seen blades blow up in 5k saws as well user error is +/-75% of blade loss imo.

[Greymatter Glass]

Cheap saws can be made good...for a price ... a savings of several thousand dollars will buy a lot of blades tho...

I personally wouldn't mount a resin blade to a direct drive saw, the vibrations will tear it up pretty quick.

[gn0me]

^ I could definitely see that. For those of y'all using sintered brass blades, try out a soak of straight ammonia on cuts marked by the saw. Vinegar works to a lesser extent and requires more scrubbing. Getting a cut to polish nicely afterward is usually a matter of preheating the tube, then slowly slowly getting the rough surface to be reabsorbed by the base material, and usually ends up pretty clean as long as you don't go too fast.

[Greymatter Glass]

yeah I have no problem polishing cuts from my $100 metal lapidary blade

[Dave Umbs]

Quick update, Thanks everyone for the helpful posts and information, i checked out my saw and table last night. I went over everything with a level and the table the saw was on was leaning towards the right and was partially warped. So that is what i think caused the failure and such a large failure based off what was said above.

So totally user error, learned my lesson so as of now i'm going to redo my whole setup. I'm going to get another cheap blade for a temporary fix and move the saw to a new level table. I have a small water pump also so i am going to add it to upgrade the water system temporarily . I'm then hoping to do what Vertigo suggested and snipe a harbor fright saw and upgrade the water feed.

Live and learn, thanks again for the quick replies and useful info everyone, hopefully some of the information will help others in the future too and avoid some more blade failures.

[VertigoGlass]

One thing we are working on. Not only for the HF saws but the MK saws as well is slowing them down. MK has made a reduction pully to reduce the speed and i will be doing the same with the HF saw when i return from the dfo. The HF saw is marked that it spins in the 3k range and the blade manufacturer recomends 1400-1750. Will keep posted in what happens.

[Greymatter Glass]

You could replace the pulleys on the HF saw, but you'd have to remove the belt cover or heavily modify it. The alternative would be to replace the motor with a variable speed DC motor, which would probably run around $500 for the motor and speed control.

Other things I have thought of for the HF saw:

Mount the motor better with a rubber gasket to absorb more of the motor vibration.
Replace the bearings on the shaft with higher quality pillow blocks and a balanced arbor to reduce vibration.
Shim the feed table to reduce torque/slop.

Another idea is to rebuild the entire saw to cut more like a trim saw or Pistorus saw, where the glass meets the blade above the center line, as is noted in a post above. I've had my HF grab the glass and toss it a couple times, or just stall out. The biggest risk there is that it can throw glass at you instead of behind it, so a full face shield would probably be the best bet for safety.

[VertigoGlass]

At the point of rebuilding with pillow blocks balanced shafts remote mounted rubber isolated motors might as well just build a new one from scratch which is an option and down the line i will probably do for myself.