zombie talk @ glassroots?

[mer]

the glassroots industry dinner panel talk has traditionally been something more heady, intellectual. we had originally spoken to some fine artists about the possibility of trying to extol the virtue of high craft as a parallel to fine art. recent discussions have led us to believe that the issues of salts and spices may be more relevant.. two recent threads here have illustrated the heightened curiosity;
http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44542
http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44694

salt/spice is an unavoidable issue in the industry. media coverage has heightened it's presence to the point that nobody can avoid discussing it anymore. what legal drugs are being pushed and where do we draw the line? what can we do to affect change? where does our responsibility rest? what is the backlash likely to entail?

so, would you be interested in attending a dinner where the discussion focused on a debate of, and some education about, these pseudo-legal drugs? even if you don't believe you can make it please feel free to weigh in.

[Mecha]

Well, I definitely can't make it, but I would certainly be interested if I could.

I have already expressed my thoughts on the subject here a few times, so I am not about to retype all that. I will say, that a face to face conversation with multiple people would be interesting to say the least. It is a little harder to lose focus that way as opposed to typing out various perspectives and hoping everyone is interpreting everything correctly.

This is not to say that it could not go south really quickly or anything, just that it seems a little less likely in person (hopefully).

I think it is a good idea. I am sure almost everyone attending Glassroots has an opinion on the subject and would be willing to participate.

[STROKER]

i have an oppinion or two that matter that i would gladly re-address while i am attending.

[wieseatron]

Ya I would be interested in this type of discussion as the momentum of the criminalization of these products and their association with glasspipes are having repercussions in the industry.

Another concern I have is legality of the oil rig/accessories market. There is a lot of demand at the moment for these products and I worry that after the spice/salts issue dies down the next big attack on our industry will come from this direction.

Either way I look forward to attending one of these panels again

[B.C. Creations]

i would as well.......and zach, i wasnt able to sell rigs at my store as per issued by the local pd. that was the only thing they didnt want besides spice and salts and illegals

[Julian]

The topic does seem important to address. It would be nice to pair that with talking about something more positively inspiring or interesting.

[mer]

zombie love in the ruins of old Detroit?

[Aymie]

I am incredibly interested.

And I am willing to take a firm stand and boycott shops that carry that crap.

[KT-Old School Glass]

I'll be missing GR yet again but I'd be interested to hear what is discussed about the Salts/Spice issues.


Another concern I have is legality of the oil rig/accessories market. There is a lot of demand at the moment for these products and I worry that after the spice/salts issue dies down the next big attack on our industry will come from this direction.

This is a BIG concern of mine as well.

[D. dino i ninjah]

I started the poll becouse I was curious about how other blowers felt about this issue
but I have no idea where glass roots is or anything about it but in an ideal world I would like to attend
thanks

[mer]

glassrootsartshow.com Madison Wisconsin. sept 24-27 2012

[FizZle]

^perhaps you could open this conversation up to everyone by streaming the dinner via the interwebs...either way i will be there and this is a good conversation...i hope it entails how we as glass artists can seperate ourselves from the negative publicity and views which are associated with zombie salts...

[Aymie]

Though am not involved, I don't see how that would be a viable or even worthwhile option. Too many people and comments. If it worked like that, there wouldn't be much reason for the dinner.

However, someone involved could take the concerns of the masses to the table. Compile a list maybe of suggested solutions and various thoughts.

[mer]

this thread would be a decent place to pose questions that might be addressed at the show, but not so much to address these questions here. i'm interested in making the panel discussion interesting to as many people as possible but we've all already said our piece in the thread above. i will keep this thread clean, not in the spirit of censorship but in the interest of staying focused on what you guys want to hear about *at* the show.

as for broadcasting the dinner in some form, there are many logistics to be considered as aymie mentioned but we will talk about it.

[Eric S]

well it seems like last year it became much of the topic of the dinner on its own. All through the show there was discussions of a possible trade organization or something to that effect and one of the big pieces of that that appealed to me was a large organization of glassblowers all refusing to sell to shops that sell the spice/salt as that seems more likely to get them to stop, where as if you tell a shop owner that you will not sell to them as long as they have the spice, they will tell you have a nice day.

Even though i wont be attending this year, i'd probably choose another topic for the dinner anyways. When i spend that kind of $$ for a meal/event, i like to think of it as kinda classy, and would like the discussion to be lighthearted or highly cultured to match the mood (celebration!). The bath salt issue is very somber, serious, and since lots of the people at the dinner were also shop owners, (some of which were against, some of which were strongly for) it seems like a topic that unifies glass blowers and shop owners would be better for everyones business than a topic that divides.

Given the average dress last year though, it was pretty casual. And given the gravity of this situation, I like the idea of addressing it, having that many shopowners and glassblowers together is rare. Is there any way to have 2 dinners?

[FizZle]

^good points...and yes opening the discussion via web would be some logistics i do understand...but it is something that could be accomplished...though it may not be necessary and extra work for all envolved...just an idea to include the greater industry that cant and wont be at glassroots...just throwin it out there...might be interesting...i belive the discussion could be controlled by a moderator so only valid points that were made via web would be brought up...but anyow the idea of compiling of ideas via this forum would work to serve the same purpose, just not give a chance for spur of the moment ideas to be shared...but with the points eric has made i think i myself agree that a lighter/ less dividing subject may be better recieved by all...

[daveabr]

boycotting shops, in my opinion, gives them more reason to buy imports. if they are willing to sell salts and spice for the high margins...... they surely will go to imports if American blowers say they won't sell to them. so, it sort of compounds another problem. i don't think it would stop stores from selling salts/spice, it would just cut off revenue sources for American blowers. i think it would be something very interesting for the dinner discussion. i think a lot of people like the boycott idea. but it would have other snowball effects

[RamblezMarblez]

I hear all this talk on how bath salts and dark star have been keeping some head shops floating...want my opinion?...Fuck your Spice fake weed bullshit!...What about the local glass blower who keeps getting laid off due to jealous MoFo'z who sat around and followed instead of leading their life. What about that guy whoz only hustle is selling an 1/8th to his friends for $5 more than he paid for it and then trying to get paid by mentioning the sweet deals on his fine craftmanship that took sweat and tear to create? If it's soo secret of whats in it, then I don't want to know...

[ALIEN!]

as much as I hate the salt/spice trade, boycotting them will do NOTHING for us. Like Dave said, it will just make them more likely to just buy imports or simply buy from a larger distributor that doesn't know or likely care.

I think there really are more interesting and even important things to discuss. Healthcare/insurance for the self-employed would be a great topic.

I hate to say it, but realistically, there's nothing the glassblowing community can do about salts/spice. Best thing for the individual to do is spread the word that the shit is bad. I'd say write your representatives in gov't, but they rarely do anything positive and have a real bad track record of staying on topic (they like to bundle rules about oranges in with a bill having to do with apples) Worst thing anyone could do is write/ talk to a gov't rep and say "glass" and "Spice/salt" in the same document or conversation.

Im gonna try and make it for the dinner/discussion this year, but honestly I don't think there's anything that could really be taken from a discussion about the "fake drugs" trade. We all know its bad shit, let's discuss something that would have more of a positive impact on more people, like insurance, marketing, trade organization, etc.

If we want to change the way people think about the salt/spice stuff, maybe having a "say NO to spice/salt" sign at every vendor booth or handing out T-shirts with the same message would have more of an impact. But that's just my .02

[Aymie]

In an effort to separate myself, I am willing to boycot future business with these places. Some will have glass on hand, nothing I can do about that.

In the end, if it means the end of this as a craft, I am down for that. Too saturated now. If only the artists survive because crafters get outdone by import, so be it. I may be on the craft side of that line, and if so, I will accept that. I will step aside as a maker and document the historic movement of glass art being revolutionized by pipe artists.

[Icarus]

I hear all this talk on how bath salts and dark star have been keeping some head shops floating...want my opinion?...Fuck your Spice fake weed bullshit!...What about the local glass blower who keeps getting laid off due to jealous MoFo'z who sat around and followed instead of leading their life. What about that guy whoz only hustle is selling an 1/8th to his friends for $5 more than he paid for it and then trying to get paid by mentioning the sweet deals on his fine craftmanship that took sweat and tear to create? If it's soo secret of whats in it, then I don't want to know...

Duly noted.

[emac]

Mer-I think it's great to cover a topic like this. Our private meetings with AGE members are regarding these sorts of topics. It's good education for everyone!

[jedi glassworks]

I think it will be a great topic for this year. Last year I was surprised by how many people were defending the synthetic industry, mostly saying if they didn't sell it, we wouldn't sell as much glass. I for one have been in this game a lot longer than spice/salts/pipe cleaner, and will be here way after that sick trend is gone.

Bryan

[jedi glassworks]

Oh yea, this was a funny zombie prank I saw on Tosh.o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4awVqRr1eCo

[Aymie]

I understand that business will Be slower if they stop selling spice/salts, but if they survived before spice, they can survive after. If the profitability of your business is reliant on the synthetic industry, you have a bad business plan, period. Don't take out a loan you can't afford to pay back without the sale of something that's such an unstable market.

I dOnt understand why so many people think spice is ok but not salts/cleaners. They are BOTH research chemicals, no one who uses either has any idea what's in them. It's not regulated in any way. Most who buy spice use the excuse of being on paper and needing something to save their sanity. What utter bullshit. First of all, if that's the case, addressing your drug addiction might be something to consider. Furthermore, I would say spice is highly addictive. So you are just adding another problem.

And that zombie in the video is lucky someone didn't bash his head in with a rock or whatever else was available. Brave or stupid? I say both.

[mer]

Mer-I think it's great to cover a topic like this. Our private meetings with AGE members are regarding these sorts of topics. It's good education for everyone!

how are your private meetings at age meant to be "good education for everybody"? the meeting agenda i saw didn't look that way.

we are not doing anything private or exclusive at glassroots, all attendees are welcome and if you cannot attend the dinner there will be a follow-up discussion here.

i would invite you to follow suit eric, if age were to open up their private industry discussions it might seem less intimidating to those who see you as anti-competitive

[emac]

hey mer, that's not what i meant, and this is ellen btw. i mean that having talks like the one you're addressing is something that is good education for everyone. just simply addressing current events is enlightening to some. we speak privately to our vendors all the time, sometimes it's nice to get some one on one time with everyone in order to really get an idea of their honest opinions.

[mer]

i agree ellen, educating folks is good for everybody. we are also interested, as you are, in affecting the market and making it safer for the future of our industry. i'm just a big fan of transparency in such matters. it's a way of not being misunderstood which i believe is a problem more often that we realize.

i doubt you want to discuss this further here. if you are interested you can get in touch with me, i would be happy to discuss the matter in a way that would allow us to share our honest opinions. i am also down to talk here, whatever. respect~m

[Aymie]

I would love for that discussion to continue here.

I had a long talk with my distributor yesterday about the sale of spice, the legal risks for all involved, and the possible boycott of shops that sell spice. It was a good one.

First, I learned about spice. How it's made, what they use, etc. He sells one kind, comes in bulk/loose, is locally made, and knows all the ingredients. The guy who makes it has his name, number, address and email on the wall for all customers who have any questions or concerns. It's not being marketed or promoted in any way, but those who want it, are educated about what it is. And honestly, I see this as different.

Then we talked about the reason behind a possible boycott and what he would do in that situation. He said he would just buy more local beginner stuff. However, if a substantial number of his blowers (a grip in his words) were to boycott, he would be inclined to take it off the shelf.