Question about start up...

[tobymac420]

Hey guys. I know you guys get asked alot of questions about start up and all this and are sick of it. That being said I am here to ask one as well lol. I have a issue. I have been watching videos, watching friends, and just plain studying glass for about the last 8 months. It is something i am dead set on wanting to learn and do for a hobby. The issue is money. Now i make enough money to be able to save some here and there, but it would take me some time to save up to buy a entire setup. I was wondering if I could get some suggestions on things to buy here and there so i could practice till i can afford say the kiln. I want to buy a starter torch first. I am thinking the Nortel Minor and propane and oxygen tank. With just these items and of course tools and glass could I just practice? I know i wont be able to save much since i wont have a kiln but i just want to learn while i save up for a kiln. Thanks for the input guys and ive been looking around alot of you have some SICK work.



Toby Mac

[Samson]

Go to Mountain Glass Arts or ABR and get yourself a starter kit. If money is the issue then buy the $129 kit .... the only thing you'll have to buy after that would be the $2.50 propane bottle. With this setup you'll be under way. You won't be buying boro anytime soon but you'll be melting glass and I think that's the MOST important thing for any newb. Learn the glass as it melts, read the glass by the color, stretch and condense. While all this is going on save those pennies, look for deals here and online via craigslist. Don't waste ANYTHING. What I'm saying is glassblowing is kinda like car building or racing, the sky is the limit. You can literally spend as much as you want / have , there's enough tools, glass, new products on and on and on and on. Don't get caught up with all that. Get the kit, couple tools (paddle, masher, poker , squisher), get some gas (lowes, blue bottle) and get melting, read as much as you can , watch all the vid's you can. Here in a year or so you'll have a progress thread we can all look at 8) Peace and gl!

PS - you could always pass this soft glass / kit deal and just start saving. I would think $1000 or so would get you your torch, kiln and oxygen with some tools and glass. At least with the way above your melting and learning. Get a piece at a time and you'll have your studio before ya know it. Plus soft glass is the bomb for beads, pendants and wearables .... it all adds up to money in my book 8)

[maxtsunami]

When I was first thinking about getting set-up, I missed a lot of costs in my initial list of required stuff. Make sure that you're remembering: regulators, flashback arrestors, and ventilation. This stuff can get real expensive real quick so my advice would be to make a complete list of what you're buying and the prices of all that stuff (and show it to us) before you go ahead with anything.

[WigWagScaliwag]

I'm kind of in the same situation as you man. Looking for my first torch and gathering all of the necessary equipment and saving $$$. Yes it can get pretty pricey. Lots of threads asking what kind of torch to get for the first and a few have said get a national. You can get tips and torch for pretty cheaply and it will work as a hand torch later down the road. This is what I'm leaning towards getting is something like:
http://www.dichroicimagery.com/product_info.php?products_id=2005

And then all you would need is flashbacks to get started melting glass (and ventilation/ safety glasses/ etc.)

[Tzonis]

Hello newbies!

I would recommend getting equipment that will last you a while and that you won't grow out of in a few months.. On that note I think a Delta is a good place to start. You can't go really huge on it but can pull of many of the techniques which everyone is using today. If you do a really good job of flame annealing some items should last without kilning firing them. Okay, end of the jokes..... I would try and find a local place to rent time from hourly. This will give you the ability to see if it is something you truly enjoy without spending lots of money it. Even if you drop $200 on rental time (which would be a lot) you still would have avoided possibly spending $1,000+ on equipment you don't use and get tired of.

Regards,
tz

[dustyg]

What FoSho said. If you go the Hothead route, I'd also recommend getting a copy of Drew Frittz's marble book. To me, it is the best resource for learning the types of techniques that are suitable for a Hothead and will best increase your intuitive understanding of glass. I'd recommend making a commitment to actually doing the drills in the book and following the lessons, because glass is way more fun when you're good at it, and this will go a long way to getting a solid foundation a lot faster than just screwing around like I did. Lastly, I'd recommend getting some Lauscha Soft Clear, because it melts easily, is very optically pure, and doesn't scum too easily from reducing flames, all of which will make your experience on the Hothead much more enjoyable.

[aREa541]

I am not familiar with your location/situation, but finding an apprenticeship/ or becoming a shop bitch is a good way to learn for "free". The only thing is, if someone (who is not a close friend) is gonna teach you how to blow glass on their time and materials you are usually giving something up; i.e. paying them for lessons or pretty much becoming their indentured glass servant. If you don't mind workin your way up from the bottom, are a hard worker, and are chill enough to impress the people teachin you its a great way into the business.

Just know that with the sophistication of today's glass market, a noob will not be profiting off their pieces for quite some time. If you are teaching yourself it will be even longer. If you are investing in your own setup, view it as an expensive hobby which could turn into a business down the road and you won't have any heartbreak.

Good luck man and remember, if it was easier than the glass market would be even more flooded than it already is. But if you avoid the pitfalls and keep melting there are great rewards to reap.

[tobymac420]

So i got a question. Say i get this starter kit http://www.dichroicimagery.com/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=1068. Would i be able to do boro down the road? I mean i want to start doing soft glass anyway just to practice. If not i think i will get the $129 starter kit to practice. I am saving money btw i just want to have a grasp of it before i go out and drop 1-3k know what I mean.

[tobymac420]

Also if i want to just do hothead are these all items i could pick up and make a kit minus glass at say home depot or lowes.

[maxtsunami]

That kit is incomplete, you need flashback arrestors, tools, safety glasses, hose clamps...
Even if you do hothead, safety glasses are a good idea, and you still need tools and ventilation.

IMO you have to really jump in if you're serious about it and if you're not, try taking a class to see if it's for you.

[Samson]

http://www.mountainglass.com/Nortel-Red-Max-Torch-Starter-Kit-3.html = $850 , if you were going to spend the cash. I still recommend http://www.mountainglass.com/Mountain-Glass-Arts-Beadmaking-Starter-Kit.html?sc=2&category=11126 ONLY because it's cheap, you get to START melting glass and you'll always have the glasses and the brass hot head once you start upgrading. Do what ya want but getting started sometimes is the hardest thing. There's to much equipment to consider, setting up the workspace, getting what ya need .. on and on on on on ..... just get melting 8) The rest will come as you fall in love with being a glass worker.

[JBob]

http://www.mountainglass.com/Nortel-Red-Max-Torch-Starter-Kit-3.html = $850 , if you were going to spend the cash. I still recommend http://www.mountainglass.com/Mountain-Glass-Arts-Beadmaking-Starter-Kit.html?sc=2&category=11126 ONLY because it's cheap, you get to START melting glass and you'll always have the glasses and the brass hot head once you start upgrading. Do what ya want but getting started sometimes is the hardest thing. There's to much equipment to consider, setting up the workspace, getting what ya need .. on and on on on on ..... just get melting 8) The rest will come as you fall in love with being a glass worker.

pretty much started on the same setup. really worth it, gives you enough room to grow but gives you a good place to start.

[LarryC]

I would NOT suggest you get a hothead starter kit. I think the money is better saved for a while until you can afford a more capable torch and unless you are making just small beads it is not worth the frustration.

[Samson]

I would NOT suggest you get a hothead starter kit. I think the money is better saved for a while until you can afford a more capable torch and unless you are making just small beads it is not worth the frustration.

To each his own. I would much rather let my students know that you an either sit , save and dream about melting glass or you can run out, but a CHEAP kit and at least melt some glass while you save and buy a piece at a time. $150 is NOT a lot of money for a quick fix. BTW, most pipers never got a chance to do beads / pendants. They jumped and learned tube works and bypassed soft all together. You can make some kick ass money with those "beads" at you local bead shop or better yet, find ya 4 or 5 ladies that buy lampwork beads and let em know you'll do whatever colors / designs you would like. TRUST me when I say you won't be "wasting" a thing. It all sells if you make a decent bead. GL in whatever you do 8)

[dustyg]

Eh... gotta disagree, LarryC
-it's about $40 for an actual hothead, or $20 for a Devardi model (they're nearly identical)
-like other torches it can easily be sold for over half what was paid
-small beads, marbles, pendants, etc. are a fine place to start (or finish).

Really, if you just use it to practice even rotation, centering, and rounding, because you'll have to practice these things, and only use it for 10 hours, I don't see how it would not be worth it.

[derekg0]

I vote to save up. This is not an inexpensive hobby, unless you'd like to just make beads and small pendants, or work soft glass(probably slightly cheaper than boro). you are looking at 300+ for a kiln, if you want to make anything of significant size kilns are probably more like 600+ .

Question is will you be buying your glass locally? if so then you can probably get away with buying 50 bucks worth of glass at a time, but if you don't have any local shops selling raw glass when you want a tube, are you going to pay 20 bucks to ship a 20 dollar tube, or 50 bucks to ship 300 bucks worth of tube? There is a serious cost advantage for a large glass order, my first order of glass was about $500. I think i paid 60 bucks in shipping, and after 2 years some of my stock is still from that original order.

If you want to see if you like it, go ahead and get the hot head and make some beads or whatever. But if you are convinced that this will be a hobby that you like keep researching, spend your 50-60 bucks on contemporary lampworking and watch every video on youtube. Save up 1500 bucks and buy a lynx/cheetah and a kiln, then 400-500 on glasses, tools, and glass to get you started.

just my $.02
hope it helps you think through your options. Also FYI, i saved up and researched for about a year before making my first purchase. I also built my bench about 3 months before I ordered everything, there are pleanty of things to get you prepared.

oh another option, take some local classes if you can! it will help you get your glass fix, and you will learn some things!

D

[Ness]

To OP: this is all really good infromation on here, and really it just depends on what you would like to do.
BUT i must say, I started melting soft glass on my little hothead in highschool. I grew to hate how slow it works glass (as stated earlier) but I also learned to make that little bitch work FOR ME.

After I became profiecient in bead making, my mum got me to make a set of small mathing beads that she could string into a bracelet and wear. She wanted to show off her glasswokring son! Lucky for me : ) After a month or so of her showing it off, orders started to roll in at $35 a bracelet. Sure it took time to make them, and I eventually grew to hate making tiny beads, but I learned a lot about what it means to work glass. After a while i increased the asking price and I was eventually able to fund a Nortel major burner, small Arrow springs kiln, all the hookups and a small amount of glass to start my boro setup.

Looking back on it, Im glad I went the way I did. Unless ur a baller and can buy everything right off the bat (still not a good idea considering initial investment, and how difficult sticking with lampworking can be for some ppl).

So just remember, : soft glass= Cheap glass (compared to boro, and i think this is a MAJOR selling point esp while learning), low startup cost, and potential for profit.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

J

[d3rk]

Doshes makes a great point. Know what kind of glass you're going to work before you buy equipment. Maybe take a starter class before too. If you decide to get equipment keep used in mind, and ABR as a very close second.
As well, are you going with tanked oxy or a concentrator?
What sort of ventilation will you go with and what can you manage?
What building materials will you need?
Do you have adequate electrical for a kiln?
What tools will you need to make the desired items?
There's way more to it than a torch and kiln and above are all questionsy you should know the answers to before buying anything.

[fUmEsNiFfEr]

Everyone's advice is good. The question of buying a hot head is are you the type who will appreciate whatever you learn how to make on it? Will you be peeved later that you blew your wad?

I met a guy at Frantz once who told me that he bought a Hothead kit and a basic book. He claims that he sold enough beads to get a Lynx within a month. That's all he makes. His bead sets are successful online and he has a buyer for 2000+ spacer beads a month. There are a bunch of beaders on Lampwork_ect who use Hotheads exclusively. There's even a lady who makes murrini with a Hothead and sells tutorials as well.

I blew my wad when I was waiting to afford my shop. Got me a single gas torch, got me some soft glass, and made some ugly ass shit. I reduced the colors and nothing survived any way because I didn't have a kiln yet. I don't even remember who I gave it to....

If I was starting all over again and I only had 150$ or so I would get some didium glasses and go the shop bitch route. If you find someone who will let you into their shop you will have to fulfill their expectations. It has to be worth their time and you will bust your ass for them. If you can hack that then you will learn the ropes faster and you can earn your kit faster while getting the feel of what it's like.

[JBob]

fumesnffer makes a good point about going the shop bitch route...also the more experienced lamp workers who would employ a shop helper are also probably the same people that can find a good lead on different used equipment u might be needing

[torchgirl]

I started on a hot head with soft glass in 2006, it's a great place to start for low set up price. Better to be melting glass than not at all. I'm on a mini cc now and have a phantom on order. The skill sets build and it's a journey, get started how ever works best for you! Flame on.

[nodice]

What tz said. If you can find a bench with tools and a torch in your area that you can rent for a good price, or maybe someone else to share your bench who has more knowledge than you, it could help a lot with money and experience.