Question for all artist.

[tobymac420]

So I have a questions to all the artist here. When you guys started up did you borrow money or did you save up money? I ask because i have been saving cash but am starting to think it would almost be better to take out a personal loan and go that route. I just want to know what other people have done. Thanks for the insight guys. Love the forums! :D




Toby Mac

[maxtsunami]

Don't take out a personal loan, unless you have already taken several lessons and know that you will be able to make sellable pieces right away. You already have ongoing costs with glassblowing (oxygen, propane, glass, silver, etc.), and it's hard to make anything more (at least starting out) than enough to cover those costs. Better just to know that if it doesn't work out for you, or if you don't make enough to pay for that next bottle of oxy, the time isn't just ticking down until your payments on the loan start.

[rockstar glassworks]

I worked under the table for a industrial pressure washing company. Clean greasy vent hoods at night, blow glass by day.... a few years later I could make money and went full time. Save! save! save!

[istandalone24/7]

here's another vote for not taking out a loan. the less debt you have the more $ you can spend on needed equipment and glass.

[AlexSchmalex]

Your going to be broke when you start blowing glass full time, do you really want another $100-$300 a month in bills?

[dinerdisco]

When I started the first thing I bought was contemporary lampworking and a beginner dvd. I read that book and watched the dvd over and over while I bought my equipment. It took me close to a year before I had everything I needed but I didn't go into debt. Where are you located Toby?

[Kaizen]

Do you want to work full time as a glass blower? As said in other threads and from personal experience, it's hard to do it full time. I went full time and did not like having to do it all day everyday, so I went back to work with my inlaws (part time and pay is good) and work glass after my day job (6 hrs there and 3 hrs glass).

This allowed me to save money and buy the equipment I needed. Plus I make more money doing 50/50 since when I work glass I'm not a slave over the torch for 8hrs a day making all prodo so I still enjoy it.

Save and slowly build up your abilities and money. Buy as you grow, don't buy tools and glass you don't really need unless you see fit.

[Icarus]

I'm in agreement with everyone else. It sucks owing someone something, and this is not a job that you get your first paycheck after two weeks. Save up and buy your stuff outright. Or buy in pieces until you have enough that you can put your shop together.

[ROGUE]

So I have a questions to all the artist here. When you guys started up did you borrow money or did you save up money? I ask because i have been saving cash but am starting to think it would almost be better to take out a personal loan and go that route. I just want to know what other people have done. Thanks for the insight guys. Love the forums! :D




Toby Mac

Can we get a bit more info? What are you trying to do? Open a huge studio in commercial or industrial zoning? Buy some begginer kits? buy a torch?

If you are trying to open a business, yes, get a loan in your business name. If it goes out of business the business entity will incure the expenses, not you personally. If you are just trying to start blowing glass, don't even think about it. There's plenty of lay away programs available for the more expensive tools and the cheaper stuff like glass, gas, and protective gear you should have enough cash to buy. If you don't have enough money, then I would say your not ready. Even if you had enough to buy the bare minimum you would run out of glass again before you started to make enough money to re-stock.

[tobymac420]

Hey guys. To who asked I live close to Chicago. I have been savings money was just starting to wonder if people all took out loans and maybe I was doing this all wrong. I'm glad I'm not. I do want to do this full time someday. But I know it may be years before that time comes.

[ROGUE]

Hey guys. To who asked I live close to Chicago. I have been savings money was just starting to wonder if people all took out loans and maybe I was doing this all wrong. I'm glad I'm not. I do want to do this full time someday. But I know it may be years before that time comes.

Personal loans are EVIL, stay away! lol... better than a credit card though

[metalbone]

...If you are trying to open a business, yes, get a loan in your business name. If it goes out of business the business entity will incure the expenses, not you personally...

fwiw, the guy won't be able to get a business loan in the business name without personally signing to cover it if it goes bad.

[ROGUE]

fwiw, the guy won't be able to get a business loan in the business name without personally signing to cover it if it goes bad.

That's not true at all. I have owned several LLC's. The person signing is not the entity, the person signing is signing for the company not for themself. My first company went bankrupt and all debt was absorbed by the LLC there's not a single mark on my credit from it.

[Mecha]

Not that I have ever done it, but don't you need business credit just like you would need personal credit? I mean, with a filing fee and some paperwork, anyone can form an LLC. So what's to stop unscrupulous people from repeatedly borrowing money on phoney companies and then never paying them back? Seems like an unlimited source of free money.

It was always my understanding that you needed to be able to prove that you have a viable business model to the banks. So sure, your personal credit may not be at risk, but the banks are not just going to hand over cash to any yokel that gets an LLC from legal zoom. I imagine that if you are going into any bank with a backyard glass blowing business proposition, you are probably not going to be walking out with a check.

[JBob]

it cost me just over $900 for my redmax kiln tools and sample packs of tubing and rod and frit from Schott and NS. I paid $600 and borrowed the rest from my dad. Looking back on it this was probably the best way i could have forseen this going...i wish i could have started with a more advanced setup to grow into but i would have never had that kind of money for all of that...And i like this route much more then trying to buy a hothead and slowly acquire and rebuy tools over time...all viable options...I wouldn't recommend taking out a loan for anything like this...

[Torch-Bug]

With 3 kids I had to work 2 jobs for 3 years to get my equipment.

If you have heart to blow glass ( that is what you need most ) then save up read and study.

Started on a lynx and moving to a phantom at the end of this month. My glass bought my phantom. Work hard and be diligent.

[gambitglass]

Just play your cards right. Dont bank on glass to be a huge money maker for you. The learning curve is kinda steep and I wouldn't put myself in debt to start up with the best equipment at first. You have to place yourself with the gear you need to make money back so buying like a hothead burner is not so good.

I've used credit to get things but not to much at once. Looking back I wish I bought more tools in the beginning and less glass.

I reliable kiln and a decent torch are essential.

I just invested like $1000 + in my oxycon setup but I know I have a tax return around the corner coming to me. I also am upgrading my torch

All these things are sellable and recoverable if things go sour.

Just analyze your goals, expectations, and risk.

Work your way up and be smart about building a business and it may work out well

I know a lot of other people who are more successful than me with glass but I do it out of love and not really out of neccesity. I have a regular job-e-job and sometimes it seems like that sucks ballz to work for someone else but I cant justify having income fluctuations working for myself at the moment so I slowly am building my skills and marketing abilities until it feels same to make a transition if ever at all.

teaching lessons and having a open studio will be part of the plan as well

good luck. there is a lot of good advise going around and like I said taking a small loan may be OK but dont get in over your head. Just be reasonable and get what you need and from there if it is going to work out for you you can work your way up to reaching the equipment and production level you envision yourself achieving.

glassblowing also seems to be getting more and more trendy so realize that there will be quite a few people just like yourself trying to capture a piece of the pie

[aREa541]

Not that I have ever done it, but don't you need business credit just like you would need personal credit? I mean, with a filing fee and some paperwork, anyone can form an LLC. So what's to stop unscrupulous people from repeatedly borrowing money on phoney companies and then never paying them back? Seems like an unlimited source of free money.

It was always my understanding that you needed to be able to prove that you have a viable business model to the banks. So sure, your personal credit may not be at risk, but the banks are not just going to hand over cash to any yokel that gets an LLC from legal zoom. I imagine that if you are going into any bank with a backyard glass blowing business proposition, you are probably not going to be walking out with a check.

This. It is actually harder to get a loan as a business. You are considered less financially stable as someone with a day job. You have to bring in 3 years of tax returns and you better show a good profit over those 3 years. Businesses fail. Banks know that.

[metalbone]

That's not true at all. I have owned several LLC's. The person signing is not the entity, the person signing is signing for the company not for themself. My first company went bankrupt and all debt was absorbed by the LLC there's not a single mark on my credit from it.

In Cali, an LLC or INC won't be able to get a business loan without a track record unless it is personally signed for or otherwise secured. It may be possible to get a loan for income property under an LLC is a large enough down is layed out if the numbers crunch out. The way it is now is not the way it used to be. Maybe it's different in FL?? In any case, sounds like toby has no business structure formed yet and therefore no track record.

For some things, I'd take out a loan, for glass stuff, not unless there is current glass income to cover the payments.

[ROGUE]

In Cali, an LLC or INC won't be able to get a business loan without a track record unless it is personally signed for or otherwise secured. It may be possible to get a loan for income property under an LLC is a large enough down is layed out if the numbers crunch out. The way it is now is not the way it used to be. Maybe it's different in FL?? In any case, sounds like toby has no business structure formed yet and therefore no track record.

For some things, I'd take out a loan, for glass stuff, not unless there is current glass income to cover the payments.

No, that's pretty much the same here. I think it's probably the same everywhere. Getting loans as a new business is next to impossible without any collateral or some type of finacial map of your past.

I think I was bringing up the business loan because I did not know if the OP was established or not.

As for the person saying that business loans are a easy way to get cash and not have to pay it back... You are somewhat right even though I know you were being sarcastic. Shady business owners do that all the time. However some shmuck or however you phrased it cannot go on legal zoom, form an LLC and get credit or finacial backing without being an established business.

[tobymac420]

Yea i am not established. Just a guy who wants to blow glass for the rest of his life. I have been studying and i know this is what i want to do with my life. Nothing could change me on this. So let me ask this. Can someone list to me everything you need for a start up kit. I want to know what you need to start up comfortable. This way i can get my finances in order! Thanks guys you guys are so awesome and helpful!

[HoneyCombOver]

Yea i am not established. Just a guy who wants to blow glass for the rest of his life. I have been studying and i know this is what i want to do with my life. Nothing could change me on this. So let me ask this. Can someone list to me everything you need for a start up kit. I want to know what you need to start up comfortable. This way i can get my finances in order! Thanks guys you guys are so awesome and helpful!

You will need:

Torch, regulators, hoses, a kiln, oxygen (tanks or concentrators), propane, a few hand tools, VENTILATION and some boro (glass) to get started

[maxtsunami]

You will need:

Torch, regulators, hoses, a kiln, oxygen (tanks or concentrators), propane, a few hand tools, VENTILATION and some boro (glass) to get started

Don't forget flashback arrestors and silver (silver not NECESSARY but it's cheaper than learning with color)

[ROGUE]

Yea i am not established. Just a guy who wants to blow glass for the rest of his life. I have been studying and i know this is what i want to do with my life. Nothing could change me on this. So let me ask this. Can someone list to me everything you need for a start up kit. I want to know what you need to start up comfortable. This way i can get my finances in order! Thanks guys you guys are so awesome and helpful!

What has you so sure this is what you want to do for the rest of your life, and how old are you? I rarely hear anybody say they want to do anything for the rest of their life. Don't dive in so deep that you can't get out if you want to. Check the major glass websites, they all pretty much have glass and tool starter kits.

[AlexSchmalex]

If you want to do it full time for the rest of your life and you dont have anyone to help you out(or let you use their shit) you will prolly want about $8000. If you want to be smart you will save up $600 buy the cheapest softglass kit you can, a book and a lesson. And then realize its much easier to work a day job and do glass as a hobby.

[Torch-Bug]

Passion answers these basic questions about equipment , Google and the search engi are you friend.

Work work work. Eat cheap. stay diligent my friend.

[tobymac420]

I am 25. I know i may be young by some standards. But i have put more time into studying this and watching videos. I get put into a trance watching glass melt. There is just something about blowing glass and watching people do it that it that just puts me in a state of mind. I am saying I want to blow glass for all my life. I would love to do it for a living but if not that at least a lifetime hobby.

[maxtsunami]

I am 25. I know i may be young by some standards. But i have put more time into studying this and watching videos. I get put into a trance watching glass melt. There is just something about blowing glass and watching people do it that it that just puts me in a state of mind. I am saying I want to blow glass for all my life. I would love to do it for a living but if not that at least a lifetime hobby.

Just be careful you don't extend yourself beyond your means or get any unrealistic ideas about what you'll be able to do in the short term. Even stuff like mushroom pendants that seem impossible to mess up from what you've seen actually take a bit of work to get down. For me, that technique was wrapping color. It seemed like the easiest thing in the world on video, but controlling stringer thickness and keeping the glass hot enough to stick to your clear is really hard. Put yourself in a position where it can start as a hobby and it's not your main focus. Even if you have time or money to spare, you will quickly get frustrated with all the little stupid things that happen to everyone who is learning. There is nothing worse than making a piece that you love and having it crack right before you finish, but it will happen. If you can distance yourself from it, great, but if you have nothing else to go to, you might end up giving up too early. Once you start to get better and more consistent, then you can start to think about how you want to proceed with your work.

All in all, good luck, and make sure you leave a little money for unexpected costs.

[ALIEN!]

if you have the face of a 12 year old you could probly find a catholic priest to pay for everything. Its either that or borrow from the bank (satan) I prefer the saving pennies, collecting aluminum, not helping the system that enslaves you route. Fuck loans and credit cards.

[Jeffs Pieces]

42771

this is gorilla glassblowing 101, how to get it done on a budget.. I borrowed a few hundred bucks and got to work.

[Jeffs Pieces]

And for the skeptic, I had fantastic ventilation, box fans and walls up in the easy-up not shown.

[tobymac420]

I am curious of your gorilla setup is it hothead?

[mango51]

appears to be a national my friend.

[Jeffs Pieces]

no thats a national 3-A, tanks were outside strapped to a tree

[JBob]

+1 for gorilla glass blowing


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyG0G96UB6k

[tobymac420]

im interested in that for practice for now. What do you do for a kiln?

[Jeffs Pieces]

I ran extension cords to a ghetto frontloader with a hole cut.

[Jeffs Pieces]

here is my studio now, all started with that easy up tho. Made every penny from glass and upgrading one piece at a time42772

[tobymac420]

here is my studio now, all started with that easy up tho. Made every penny from glass and upgrading one piece at a time42772

Wow you are a inspiration :)

[TlkQ]

42771

this is gorilla glassblowing 101, how to get it done on a budget.. I borrowed a few hundred bucks and got to work.

First place I ever melted shit. Good times. Gooooood times.

[Jeffs Pieces]

yea Gooooodtimes, especially the 2am music battles with the warren wilson kids

[TlkQ]

Oh Warren Wilson kids.. Trustafarian drug cooks man.