Munny for money?

[The Glass Fish]

So, I've seen Munnies everywhere now. Shops I sell to have some, facebook has pages devoted to them, and now Glassline put them on the cover. I want to make a Munny so bad. It looks like fun. Before I did glass, I did graphic design. After I started glass, I did commercial sculpture. I have worked doing other peoples suggestions for so long, It almost comes naturally. Take a set of parameters and work within those, and still create something unique to your style- sounds like a great idea!

But...are they only the realm of Coyle? If I do a Munny or Dunny, am I stepping on the toes of everyone who has done one before me? See, I've done Darth Vader, only to discover its been done. I did a kickass Stormtrooper, then saw Delene's in the Flow. This is different, because I already know of the width and breadth of the genre of Munnies. Is just anyone aloud to come out and play?

I wanna know how the community as a whole feels about the idea of other people's ideas and what is acceptable to 'cover' and what is just an outright 'copy'.
I really wanna make one (or 2 or 3 or..) but will that make me a total bandwagon-getter-onner?

[mer]

contact coyle, he's done a million collabs, i bet he'd like to work with you!

[3-H]

Coyle just made a facebook post about this exact question you asked. Should check out his page on it.

[WCGMille]

Have you checked the kidrobot website...it seems to me that munny's were deisgned to be personalized and recreated by other artists. But that's just my opinion

[The Glass Fish]

to 3-H link? I went to his page and didn't see the post. Thanks.

[The Glass Fish]

@wcgmille: Ya, I'm buying one. I just wanted to add, the first munny I ever saw was in an artglass shop, and it was large, clear, and nonfunctional. I thought it was neat, and took a picture of it (that I cant find!) but thought I wanted to do it. That was like 2 years ago.

[mer]

this link should work, http://www.facebook.com/coyle.condenser/posts/10152232087170265

[WCGMille]

The post on coyles page is from yesterday I think there's like 200+ comment debate going, needless to say I didn't read it all. If you do I'll take the cliffnote version

[JBob]

Coyle condones the use of the munny for anyone in glass as long as its used to express who you are artistically. He does not think its cool to prodo out a bunch of munnys just to bank on a fad. basically the clifnotes version i got from the post...

[Riley]

don't sell a blank canvas for profit, take that canvas and create something new from it. that is the essence of it.

to paraphrase from other similarly repeating conversations: most artists are alright with people doing studies of their work. it is understood that people need to build the skill sets in order to learn all the various styles, and techniques, to ultimately create something new. once that has been achieved the only limitation is your imagination. (and glass, time, and equipment)

[The Glass Fish]

JBoback300 and Riley summed it up nice. I think I can do a seriously sick Munny and make it in my own style for sure. I never intended to jump on the prodo wagon with this. I will make a clear one first (will never leave the shop) cuz I hafta do a study to figure out my process and look for pitfalls. To Mer: I would love to do a colab with Coyle on something like this. However he is a famous glassblower with a waiting list that is the whos who in the industry. I am a nobody that rarely leaves my cave on my desert mountain. I will treat the project with respect, for sure.

I am in love with the idea of many people all starting with a common idea and 'making it their own'. It epitomizes what is 'fun' for me in glass. I can mix my creativity with a concept that forces me to work within a set of parameters. And at the end of the day, it may or may not sell. But I'm sure it'l be fun as fuck!

[3-H]

Its been summed up....if you attach some reversals to it and call it "sick" you have missed the point and you're a douche...just saying. I've had a kid robot munny sitting on my desk for 4+ years...still have not designed it to fit "me".

[The Glass Fish]

Its been summed up....if you attach some reversals to it and call it "sick" you have missed the point and you're a douche...just saying

I'm not sure, but is this directed at me? Really? I know my way around reversals, sure. I paid my dues at a prodo bong shop twisting tube. Make the tube, twist the tube, time to make the donuts. But that is not where I'm from, and it's not where I'm going. I've been blowing for 16 years son, and you don't know anything about me. Ive been on GA.org for 5 years now- http://www.glassartists.org/JonathanFischbach. Check out the "Font of my Youth" pics. Sold this for $2000. And it doesn't even have a hole. This is my current prodo: http://www.facebook.com/CatalystGlass13?ref=tn_tnmn This is some of my oldschool lampwork http://www.myspace.com/crystal_eclipse/photos

I know how to sculpt. I've probably forgotten more designs than you even know. IF I decide to make a Munny, I wouldn't fucking touch it with a reball.

[bildo]

What would be the problem with touching it with a reball? I didnt know what a Munny was so I googled it. I didnt see any made of glass. How could anybody possibly bite something that is so bitten? When somebody else has borrowed something rather than invented it themselves it only makes them the first biter. What a great claim to have. Hey dont do this. because I copied it first is crazy to me. And just because a member of our community was the first, doesnt mean that the idea was his or hers. Please post your munny, cant wait to see different takes of it. Your work looks tight, someday I hope to be able to sculpt a munny. Who will I be ripping off when I do?

[Mr. Whale dick]

^^^^^^


Kidz these days...


Its called respect

[Conscious Pilot]

well put bildo.

[Mr. Whale dick]

Really?....well put???


Fuck you assholes...
One you clearly suck at glass...aand then dont give a shig about artists in the field your trying to get into..



I really hope you spend years and tons of enervy to carve a nice out in the glass world


Just to have someone shit on all your hard work


Kidz suck nowdays...

Have some fu,king respect for the people before you

Shit like these assholes makes me not wanna post shit to help anyone on this sige


Yall wouldnt last a second in the movie scarface....

[The Glass Fish]

I've honestly have no problem with reballs persay. I love linework. Where would we as a community be without artists like JLee and Eusch? Reballs were my bread and butter for a couple of years. Its just not really my style. Someone made a flippant comment that I was gonna just stick reballs on it and call it mine, and that makes me a douche. If I am going to be called a douche, and least let me do something douchy first. Also, I know that the Munny concept is an open source idea. But when an artist take one idea so far across our community, making it into their bread and butter, and using the project to bring artists together, does it not become their origional idea? Not the Munny, but the Munny Project? I have no problem copying a Munny. Skillwise I got this. I just wanted to understand the project better, and see if there is a place in it for me. Well, Coyle says there is. I might never do it, as I am really busy. I just wanted to know what's up before I invested another minute on a concept. I never meant any disrespect to Coyle, or his ideas. Its why I am trying to be involved in a discussion about it.

I know firsthand how bad it can suck when someone starts doing your designs. I was in Dallas selling Cartoon Character 127a to shop owner 17b. I got busy and couldn't sell shop owner 17b anymore 127a's this month. So this guy I knew brought store owner 17b a case of his 127b's. Then, shop owner 17b didn't want my 127a's because my 'friend' sold them cheaper. I said his 127a's are actually 127b's! But the custies can't tell the difference is the response. Coyle doesn't want the market flooded with 127b's. And neither do I.

[Mr. Whale dick]

The whole point of this post is respect.....props fish

[Conscious Pilot]

Really?....well put???


Fuck you assholes...
One you clearly suck at glass...aand then dont give a shig about artists in the field your trying to get into..



I really hope you spend years and tons of enervy to carve a nice out in the glass world


Just to have someone shit on all your hard work


Kidz suck nowdays...

Have some fu,king respect for the people before you

Shit like these assholes makes me not wanna post shit to help anyone on this sige


Yall wouldnt last a second in the movie scarface....



God Forbid you dont! I'm sure constructive criticism like this will be missed in our community.

[Mr. Whale dick]

Jesus christ.....


How long you kidz been blowing glass?

if this is the direction kids are going now....i dont know what to say...

Jesus help us all

[The Lorax]

Coyle condones the use of the munny for anyone in glass as long as its used to express who you are artistically. He does not think its cool to prodo out a bunch of munnys just to bank on a fad. basically the clifnotes version i got from the post...


it's all prodo, some are just fancier than others. Its absurd to try to claim shit... didn't we all make fun of HMK for this? Is coyle an acceptation because he hangs out with "the cool kids" ? seems like it to me.

[JBob]

it's all prodo, some are just fancier than others. Its absurd to try to claim shit... didn't we all make fun of HMK for this? Is coyle an acceptation because he hangs out with "the cool kids" ? seems like it to me.

Probably. Im not really opposed to either side of the argument. I think people should do whatever the hell they want to do.

[Mr. Whale dick]

Do what you want.....

But think and have respect.....

if you know your ripping someone off then you probably are

[Mr. Whale dick]

Do your own shit...make shit yours....Make your own way..


Im done...

Fuck un inspired people

if any real people need help pm me

[The Lorax]

lol "do you own shit"

he didnt come up with the munny, he copied it from someone else. this is hilarious.

PS, I used to get butt hurt too when i saw people "copy" me. then i grew up and started worrying about myself rather than others.

[Dan Kooper]

Anyone see the Teddy's thing?

[aREa541]

Biting sucks, but as the originator of a product or style you still have the edge. I personally think being sensitive to imitation in glass (at least at this point in time), would leave me angry all the time. 98% of glass artists are just repeating styles or techniques they were taught or picked up from other artists. Which is good, because imagine how long it would take to become well versed in different techniques if each artist had to individually discover them. The good ones use those styles and techniques to make the piece their own.

Was Salt the first to combine sculpting and piping? No. Was Eush the first to do wig-wags? No. Did RAM invent the graal technique? No. Was I the first to do all these? Yes, but that is beside the point. The point is each of these artists took a technique and made it their own.

If you can take the munny and make your own statement, it seems to play fair with the unwritten rules of the glass game as it stands now. Will people judge you as a biter? Some will yeah, but I doubt their own art would stand up to such scrutiny.

[The Lorax]

well said

[CoyleCondenser]

I feel like this whole topic has been covered. I do not claim ownership of the Munny and if you read the GlassLine article you will see where I was coming from with the concept. I also give a shout out to glassblowers who have made them before me; Devin Sommerville and Byron Beres.

Bottom line is a Munny is an open form- a blank 3D canvas for you to display you art on, and anyone can use this form no matter what material you work with.

I want people to make their own Munnys, I want them to express themselves through the form, but it is obvious to me that someone that cranks out a bunch of clear ones is just piggy backing on a market that I created with my hard work. Yes, I believe that I brought this form into the forefront of glass pipe art, but that doesn't mean that I can claim ownership of the Munny.

Fish- Make your Munnys, I know that they will come out amazing. And I know that you might have to make a few clear ones for practice, that's okay! (maybe paint them fully with gold luster, that would be epic!)

Lorax- Are you trying to say that these one-off collaborations are production work? I think that you just don't understand or believe in art. I can't wait to see your Munnys!

Now, everyone break out your sketch book and start designing your own Munny. I know what my next one is but Im not telling ;)

[aREa541]

Mo Munny, Mo Problems.

[3-H]

I'm not sure, but is this directed at me? Really? I know my way around reversals, sure. I paid my dues at a prodo bong shop twisting tube. Make the tube, twist the tube, time to make the donuts. But that is not where I'm from, and it's not where I'm going. I've been blowing for 16 years son, and you don't know anything about me. Ive been on GA.org for 5 years now- http://www.glassartists.org/JonathanFischbach. Check out the "Font of my Youth" pics. Sold this for $2000. And it doesn't even have a hole. This is my current prodo: http://www.facebook.com/CatalystGlass13?ref=tn_tnmn This is some of my oldschool lampwork http://www.myspace.com/crystal_eclipse/photos

I know how to sculpt. I've probably forgotten more designs than you even know. IF I decide to make a Munny, I wouldn't fucking touch it with a reball. It wasn't directed at you at all Fish.....it was however going back to what Riley and Jbob were saying...I saw the prodo munnies that coyle was talking about and felt disappointed the whole idea of them was sincerely misunderstood. I should have clarified more properly in my post before I posted it. Sorry for the misunderstanding and miscommunication.

Edit: Sick sculpting man killer work.

[The Glass Fish]

No problem 3-H. Sorry 'bout the pepper in my words then. Thought it was at me. I actually don't think it (the prodo Munnys) is misunderstood at all, though. The peeps putting out the clear ones know exactly what they are doing. How could they not? Its more like they don't care, than don't know. The entire concept of a public domain type format is that nobody has any control over what is done with it, good or bad. If you make a Munny, it says something about who made it. Does anybody want their Munny to say "Ima Hack"?

[puddletown]

lol "do you own shit"

he didnt come up with the munny, he copied it from someone else. this is hilarious.

PS, I used to get butt hurt too when i saw people "copy" me. then i grew up and started worrying about myself rather than others.


THIS. so a guy copies something, then gets mad when other people copy that thing also? LMAO!!!!

[The Lorax]

Lorax- Are you trying to say that these one-off collaborations are production work? I think that you just don't understand or believe in art. I can't wait to see your Munnys!

)

Yes your following a basic guideline (the munny body) and repeating it in various different ways, thats a production. Theres high end production, low end production and everything inbetween. Your approach imho is from a craftsman's approach, not an artist's. I don't think theres many artists in this industry though in my brutally honest opinion, and I sure as fuck don't consider myself an artist so we are all clear on that!

I dont plan on making any Munnys either, they don't interest me personally and i like other oil rig designs far more in the realm of function.... the heads are way too airy compared to how a pipe could be designed.



I want people to make their own Munnys, I want them to express themselves through the form, but it is obvious to me that someone that cranks out a bunch of clear ones is just piggy backing on a market that I created with my hard work.

Sounds like marketing imo^ I don't believe in this type of "art", but thats just my opinion.




imho i think 99.9% of the glass pipes out there are craft, not art... art is purely marketing in this industry and you can disagree or agree, doesn't affect me. I won't make any munnys because its a very simple and boring template to me.

[bildo]

^^^^^^


Kidz these days...


Its called respect

C'mon dawg, I wasnt trying to disrespect anybody. Coyle's munnies are tits and he was one of the first. He put his time in and made it popular in this world. I am relatively new to this and am always interested in how people possess their work. I live in Austin. There is an artist here who may have started the fume trap? His name is Stoke and he is the shit with his work. I am making a fume trap, it is not exactly like his, and definitely not as good, but either way I am making a similar object, in the same town and might be cosidered stepping on his toes. I dont think so, but maybe. I cant not try things that others have done simply because they have done it. I wouldnt be being true to myself. Stokes pipes are my favorite and the air trap is awesome, with that being said it is a prodo technique. I am gathering that a munny is kind of like Lisa Simpson, there was an original, but now everyone has there own take? The question just wouldnt be the same if it was lisa simpson because we have all seen it so much.

And way to call out somebody else for disrespect when you called me a kid. It is hypocrisy, there are much better ways to frame an argument than trying to call me your junior. You dont know me, and if you did you would probably show a little more respect. Dig?

[hashmasta-kut]

i have no idea what a munny is. really weird name for something tho..

[Mr. Whale dick]

Just pisses me off...these kids come here and learn glass for free...and have no respect...

....
Guess we heave to show them what pipes to make and where to sell them as well...

And for the record ive been blowing glass for 17 years and feed my family entirly off glass


Dealing with someone ripping you off is easy to deal with...the mentality behind it is not

[Role]

43057

3500 year old W&R.

Anyone not giving props to Ancient Egypt after doing a W&R is a poser.

Those little "Munny" figurines are just about as original.

[Mr. Whale dick]

A technique is one thing....a direct copy of a living artists work is sad

[The Lorax]

you just called coyle sad then, because he didn't invent the munny.

[CoyleCondenser]

It's cool, My work isn't made for glassblowers. You guys can call it what ever you want, craft, unoriginal, a copy, it doesn't phase me because at the end of the day I know what I make is art and you are not my target audience. The lack of respect does disappoint me though, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I personally hope that all of you can make things that bring you joy and can pay the bills at the same time. That is truly something special.

[fUmEsNiFfEr]

/\ /\ /\ +1

[swillz]

Coyle your work is badass keep it up!! fuck the haters. They just wish they were on the forefront of such a brillant idea!) I love all the colabs and diffrent takes on one object each one is original in its own and that is the purpose and why it is art! its expression

[Role]

The lack of respect does disappoint me though

This has me scratching my head in confusion.

Whom is disrespectful ?

Glass figurines have been around forever and a day.

The "Munny" toy is an art concept toy that is BLANK to be colored on.

I do not see any "Munnies", I see glass figurines with a pipe inside called by the name
of a popular toy to create a meme based on that toy's popularity.

Talented glass artist(s), no doubt about it...

I live by truth, if that's "disrespect" so be it.

[Dan Kooper]

So RAM is a copy cat because he didn't invent the guns he is recreating in glass? Those pencil dabbers are unoriginal because we have all used pencils before? Anyone that puts a skull on a pipe is just copying the human skull.

[honestcharlie]

The originators that pioneer ideas or applications and the ones that brought the art to the forefront are the reason that the community is having this discussion and have earned respect and appreciation. The closest example of the munny that comes to my mind would be Andy Warhol. Whatever my opinion is worth

[ALIEN!]

more people making munny's is pretty much inevitable. The thing is, anyone with a skill set that can match Coyle's quality won't do it because they don't need to. They can make their own kick ass original thing that will be in demand. The idea that a couple people cranking out low quality munnies with janky welds affecting Coyle's munnies saleability is almost asinine. Besides, someone with Coyle's skill set can make anything he can visualize and will have no problem moving on to the next big thing, he'll always be on top, always be innovative. His recent bub is a perfect example of him being ahead of the game. If ya wanna make a munny, IMO, go for it, cuz ya aint gonna match Coyle's, and therefore will be selling to a whole different market. Just don't go saying it was made by the man, cuz that's straight plagiarism, and that'd be an ass whoopin.

[menty666]

I look at it this way: Make one, if you enjoy making it, make another. Eventually you'll find a way to take the concept and make it your own and in that case you've created something uniquely you.

If not, you made one, hopefully had a little fun and learned something, and now you can move on.

I took a class with Kobuki. Does that mean I'm going to make a hundred imploded flower marbles? Of course not. I made a few and still occasionally make one. But I took the technique, learned something from it, and I use *that* bit of knowledge to do and try other things.

People can tell when you're phoning it in. If that's your prodo and it fuels your artistic soul, then so be it. Obviously integrity and paying the bills are often at odds.

But when you take the time to make something unique...then you're doing something fairly guilt free.

I'll admit, glass isn't my primary income. But I have noticed when I start paying more attention to "what will sell?" instead of "what makes me happy to create?" then it's soul crushing and not fun anymore. We make things out of glass and fire; enjoy it!

[FredLight]

I make a few Munnies out of glass. I thought I was doing something different until I saw Devin Sommerville's Munnies, which were made 5 years before mine.

I didn't intentionally copy his, since I hadn't seen them at the time. Mine are solid, his are hollow, and bad-ass, to boot.

I haven't seen Coyle's pieces, so It can't be said that I'm copying them. His probably blow mine clear out of the water, I suspect.

I would think the team at KidRobot would be flattered to see munnies made of glass.

[Chile Ortega]

About 8 years ago, I met Frank Kozik in Portland. We discussed the idea of making glass Munny. I made a few prototypes, and due to a communication lapse, he never got to see them. It really is a very unoriginal idea, but using your artistic expression to make it your own really is what the Munny is all about at this point. Kozik is still making mad loot collabing with graphic artists and shitting out Munny like the mint prints dollars. As far as angry guy up there, and his hard to understand opinion as it relates to artists: Has anyone actually given Kozik props, or even asked his permission to blatantly reproduce the Munny? If anyone has been shit on, it would be him. All that aside, most of the Munny I have seen are off the hook, and since it was never an original idea, I would encourage as many people as possible to try their hand at them. I have to say, I was a little bummed when I saw them a few years back, but only because I had never followed through on my own idea. If you spend most of your time being angry and jealous towards other artists, you will never achieve any real level of success.

Nice brain fart on my end. I talked to Kozik about Dunny. Yeah. So hey, there's an idea for you guys.

[The Lorax]

this, is real art:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=harvard+museum+of+natural+history+glass+flowers&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bpcl=36601534&biw=1217&bih=735&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=vyePUKTfL9DRiAKMqIHQAw

[ROGUE]

this, is real art:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=harvard+museum+of+natural+history+glass+flowers&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bpcl=36601534&biw=1217&bih=735&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=vyePUKTfL9DRiAKMqIHQAw

(sarcasm)How is that real art? They were all copied from nature.(/sarcasm)

[Greymatter Glass]

http://www.greymatter.org/pandas/wtf/want-ad-fail.jpg

[Mr. Whale dick]

What????


I only saw tina turners son 6 times....

[Ness]

Good debate. But the facts are the facts. These are images (prob copyrighted and or licensed) that ppl are reproducing in glass, So OBV they r not original to begin with. ALso COyle was asking about how much interest there is in taking a class on Munny making....

just sayin

[ROGUE]

Good debate. But the facts are the facts. These are images (prob copyrighted and or licensed) that ppl are reproducing in glass, So OBV they r not original to begin with. ALso COyle was asking about how much interest there is in taking a class on Munny making....

just sayin

I thought somebody wrote they were open source?

I really don't want to get caught up in this debate, but it seems fun.

Can somebody please show me a picture of your "original" work that nobody in the history of the World has ever done before please? I just want to make an educated decision after I see some "original" work.

[Ness]

I thought somebody wrote they were open source?

actually IM not sure about the Munny (dont know much about the orig) but Im sure the stormtroopers and slimer etc... r not open. Same debate tho.. i think

[ROGUE]

actually IM not sure about the Munny (dont know much about the orig) but Im sure the stormtroopers and slimer etc... r not open. Same debate tho.. i think

Oh, true. Same with all the Disney characters. Those definitely have copyrights on them. However, either they buy the rights to put their likeness on the munny or it's open source and available for anybody to use.

[JBob]

Can somebody please show me a picture of your "original" work that nobody in the history of the World has ever done before please? I just want to make an educated decision after I see some "original" work.

flushed it after my last cup of coffee

[CoyleCondenser]

Okay so a Munny is the DIY art toy. You can buy a blank one and paint/sculpt it into your own creation. KidRobot is a designer toy company that makes them, along with a myriad of other art toys. KidRobot enlists well know painters, designers, and street artists to collaborate with them on new runs of toys. Paul Budnitz is the founder of Kid Robot and here is an excerpt from his "about" page:

"Budnitz called upon the talents of friend Tristan Eaton, the illustrator he'd worked with on his previous animated films. Together they created Dunny and Munny, two of Kidrobot's best selling characters. With a philosophy of collaboration, Budnitz brought in dozens of other fine artists, graffiti artists, and illustrators to work on toy projects with him. Kidrobot produces roughly 60 new toy projects each year and its toys are sold in thousands of stores worldwide."

^Thus is the concept for bringing this blank "Munny" canvas to pipe art in the spirit collaboration.


http://www.kidrobot.com/

Some awesome Munnys:
http://sites.kidrobot.com/munnyworld/?p=gallery

Here is a blank Munny:
http://www.kidrobot.com/ShopAll/DesignerToys/DoItYourselfToys/MUNNY7InchWhiteEdition.html

Hope this helps.

[ROGUE]

flushed it after my last cup of coffee
ROTFLMAO!!!! Ok, ya got me.

[ROGUE]

^Thus is the concept for bringing this blank "Munny" canvas to pipe art in the spirit collaboration.


Hope this helps.

Rock it man, I think those things are cool. I don't own any though

[CoyleCondenser]

Oh yeah, I believe Munnys are open source because they are made for artists to use. I have contacted KidRobot multiple times with pictures of my work and the only response I got was "thanks for sharing" so I don't think they really care. Plus they are a company that works with graffiti artists and I would think that they would respect the underground culture of our little community.

[Ikensel]

Im spent from the energy it took to read all this.
Whale Boner props for covering Coyles back like a friggin Ninja! Ive got no talent and a lot of love for glass. Stop rippin on no talent aholes :) were people too.
Coyle youre in Hamp? I lived in Sunderland before i moved back to NH. My son goes to High School in Deerfield. Do you have other glass artist/wanna be artist in your studio? Id love to watch you tear that shit up.

[Jim OShea]

Yes your following a basic guideline (the munny body) and repeating it in various different ways, thats a production. Theres high end production, low end production and everything inbetween. Your approach imho is from a craftsman's approach, not an artist's. I don't think theres many artists in this industry though in my brutally honest opinion, and I sure as fuck don't consider myself an artist so we are all clear on that!

I dont plan on making any Munnys either, they don't interest me personally and i like other oil rig designs far more in the
realm of function.... the heads are way too airy compared to how a pipe could be designed.





Sounds like marketing imo^ I don't believe in this type of "art", but thats just my opinion.




imho i think 99.9% of the glass pipes out there are craft, not art... art is purely marketing in this industry and you can disagree or agree, doesn't affect me. I won't make any munnys because its a very simple and boring template to me.

So everyone who makes marbles arn't artists because they follow a basic guideline? You need to look up the definition of art. you dont make any sense

[Hazeey]

Keep on pimpin' Coyle, your use of the concept is not even worth debate, you took it and ran with it. Just like your wag style alien heads are your style wag, so too are the Munnys. I still have the orange chillum from you that I got at the G.L.A.S.S.
weekend hangin' up for inspiration in originality, that was the first wag design I'd seen done that way. Lookin' forward to seein' the future of what you bring to the table.

[Samson]

How's about a lesson on respect.

Short story, I went to Vegas and went into a Wayland Signature Series gallery. Inside I got turned on to a cat named David Wight. He is making the baddest waves I've ever seen. Huge crucible drawn waves. I think the cheapest one was about $4800 dollars and so worth every penny. All the way home I thought about those waves. I own / operate a Bead / Glass studio with my wife so I've always got tourist wanting something from Myrtle Beach. Smaller waves! I kick one or two out that turned out funky then I did one I was proud of. So BEFORE I made another I sat down and wrote David via FaceBook .... letting him know that his piece was a HUGE inspiration to me and I would love to be able to mock up a copy of it for myself. These waves would be the first series of anything I've ever done before, a collection of sorts. I wanted him to have the first one. Now I don't think they really look like his, in fact, in size they are nothing like his. I do a foam he does more of clear.

Guess what I'm saying is RESPECT is earned and no doubt he's earned it when it comes to those waves. Hope to meet him one day

[Samson]

*hic* no clue how I doubled posted 8)

[Greymatter Glass]

munnies/dunnies are not "open source"

I could not send off to China and start to make and sell blank munnies under my own name. KidRobot would sue me into oblivion.

What they are is a trademarked and copyright design that is put into the world as a starting point. They're sold by a corporation that exists, if among other things (which is debatable), to make a profit.

Enter the world of Fan Created Art. Comic books and Sci-Fi writers have dealt with it for decades to some lesser or greater degree. The reality is that if you make a consumer product that becomes popular among a subset of a larger demographic - in this case high end vinyl art toy collectors, as a subset of both toy collectors and pop art collectors, you accept that with that fandom will come inspiration. It's the job of their lawyers to decide if it's genuine imitation as flattery or imitation for commercial gain, and it's often a bit of both. In the end, most often Fan Art serves to promote the idea within it's already well defined boundaries. Mostly fan art is bought and sold among the other diehard fans who probably have already spend a considerable portion of their disposable income on the corporate product already, and will continue to do so. And usually the money made selling fan art is in some way turned back into the market created by the original concept in the first place anyways....


Now, to quote a sage elder.... "shut up and blow glass"

-Doug

[ALIEN!]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNQW-63OuE4


Home made clam chowder is the best!

[Aymie]

Bildo, are you calling his stamping tech, fume trap? I am confused. You aren't the first in town to copy it. I think Rufus takes that trophy. Rufus is a local guy here who makes his living producing crops knocks off and undercutting the original artist.

Arkitech is right. It's all about respect. And so many of you have none.

When I wanted to make bracelet pipes, a very innovative design created by Corinne Winters (Corn), I went about it in a very careful way. I didn't come here asking strangers what they thought. I went directly to Corinne. I told her I was interested, and gave three options for outcome: I could not do them, I could do them and send her some to sell, or I could do them and give her a cut. She asked that I just send her some for her own collection, and that I not sell them to her distributor at the time. A couple years went by and I realized the need for a nicely concealed pendant jar to complete the set. I developed a new way of plugging the jars so they are truly air tight and cannot be identified as a jar. When Corinne was approached about doing jars like mine, she called me and asked permission. Of course I was happy to oblige, even gave her the part number for the ford part I use that has to be ordered from the dealership. I got the better end of the deal since bracelets have remained my bread and butter, eventually stemming in to a whole matching production line. And none of my bracelets look anything like Corinne's. I didn't take a class and copy, I learned on my own and developed a bracelet to match my style. I don't ever show bracelets without giving her credit, and even let buyers know she has a variety of options that are much cheaper than mine.

Some douche made one for a video and didn't even give her credit. Said this is another artists design, leaving her nameless. No respect.

Some daft cunt made a ball gag pipe for the FFO less than six months after Rose Winters (raw) made that exact piece for the DFO...same colors and everything. No fucking respect.

I am not bashing the OP as you actually seem to have some respect, even if you didn't go to the source first. But so many of you fuckers are missing the whole point. In the end, this influx will not last. The glass community is going to eat you alive. You think it's rough here? Go spout this kind of bullshit to the 10+ year veterans. You saw what happened with one here.

Bottom line is that with an ego and sense of entitlement, when you have yet to pay your dues and educate yourself, no one will want to work with or around you.

Also, just give up now and sell me your equipment. I have a humble and knowledge hungry noob I am helping grow in to a powerful and creative glass artist and craftsman.

[Aymie]

I just realized I am officially a 10+ year veteran. This summer marked 11 years.

SUPER ELITE ELDERS FTW!

[Aymie]

I also realized I am behind...need to step it up.

I also realized I like responding to my own posts...I will be the new nomad...and I would like a noob to please make me a sammich.

[Chad S]

I would like a noob to please make me a sammich.

I don't want to copy anyone??

[ROGUE]

Bildo, are you calling his stamping tech, fume trap? I am confused. You aren't the first in town to copy it. I think Rufus takes that trophy. Rufus is a local guy here who makes his living producing crops knocks off and undercutting the original artist.

Arkitech is right. It's all about respect. And so many of you have none.

When I wanted to make bracelet pipes, a very innovative design created by Corinne Winters (Corn), I went about it in a very careful way. I didn't come here asking strangers what they thought. I went directly to Corinne. I told her I was interested, and gave three options for outcome: I could not do them, I could do them and send her some to sell, or I could do them and give her a cut. She asked that I just send her some for her own collection, and that I not sell them to her distributor at the time. A couple years went by and I realized the need for a nicely concealed pendant jar to complete the set. I developed a new way of plugging the jars so they are truly air tight and cannot be identified as a jar. When Corinne was approached about doing jars like mine, she called me and asked permission. Of course I was happy to oblige, even gave her the part number for the ford part I use that has to be ordered from the dealership. I got the better end of the deal since bracelets have remained my bread and butter, eventually stemming in to a whole matching production line. And none of my bracelets look anything like Corinne's. I didn't take a class and copy, I learned on my own and developed a bracelet to match my style. I don't ever show bracelets without giving her credit, and even let buyers know she has a variety of options that are much cheaper than mine.

Some douche made one for a video and didn't even give her credit. Said this is another artists design, leaving her nameless. No respect.

Some daft cunt made a ball gag pipe for the FFO less than six months after Rose Winters (raw) made that exact piece for the DFO...same colors and everything. No fucking respect.

I am not bashing the OP as you actually seem to have some respect, even if you didn't go to the source first. But so many of you fuckers are missing the whole point. In the end, this influx will not last. The glass community is going to eat you alive. You think it's rough here? Go spout this kind of bullshit to the 10+ year veterans. You saw what happened with one here.

Bottom line is that with an ego and sense of entitlement, when you have yet to pay your dues and educate yourself, no one will want to work with or around you.

Also, just give up now and sell me your equipment. I have a humble and knowledge hungry noob I am helping grow in to a powerful and creative glass artist and craftsman.

Aymie,

Was Corrine the first and only person at the time making bracelet pipes? I highly doubt it. So what about all of the other artists you cut out of the respect loop? This whole respect thing is being blown WAY out of proportion. If you are purposely copying somebody else then respect or not, you are copying. If you make something and it turns out looking like somebody else's stuff you don't need to ask for permission, you didn't copy, it just looks similar to another artist.

Let's take Mickelson for example, I have never in person seen anybody make some of the things he makes so well, but... everything that he does make(that I have seen) has been done to a lesser degree by another artist. Just because he makes a glass gun(tons of those made, and he wasn't the first one) doesn't mean he needs to look up the very first person in the world to ever make a glass gun and ask them if it's ok that he makes them. He took an idea, made it his own and then perfected it.

The idea that you need to ask for permission(respect) from another artist is crazy. Finding the one single person that started the idea(unless you copied directly from them)would be very difficult or impossible. Since I can't find the person that originated the art, does that mean I should never do it?

It seems like people in this thread mean well. Yes, in a perfect world we should all know each other and what we have created. The reality is there are probably millions of glass blowers currently alive, and who knows how many dead. The chances that any of us make something new and original that has never been done before is slim.

The OP was very respectful. He is conduting his research to discover the origins and possibly the correct route to finding the appropriate answers. Where would be a better place to ask this question than a bunch of glass blowers?

Respect is earned not given. I am a middle age man that has been through combat, lived in 10 different countries visted well over 50 countries and driven to 49 states and cruised into Hawaii on an aircraft carrier. I have three kids, an ex wife, a mortgage, a car, several pets, a good job, a masters degree in psychology working on a PhD in neuropsychology, and many other life experiences, I also blow glass as a productive hobby. You don't need to give me an ounce of respect. If I want you to respect me I will earn it from you. If I feel like making an awesome implosion marble or some cool pipes I am not going to track down the originators and ask them if they think it's ok. That doesn't make me any less respectful or lazy, that just means I'm using common sense. Car manufactures do not track down a member of Henry Fords family everytime they want to mass produce a car on an assembly line. WHY? Are they being disrespectful to the Ford's? If not, why is that not disrespectful, it's the same principle correct?

As a species, humans want to feel important. Our sense of entitlment as a majority is incredibly self serving. Just because you make something that you haven't seen before does not make that thing yours and people do not need to ask your permission to respect you. How would this so called "respect" work in this scenerio... I make something that I think is original, I go to a festival and I see somebody making something nearly identical. Do I throw a temper tantrum and demand this person respects me by asking them to get my permission to make and sell these things? OR Do I say hi to him, tell him I like his art, and then go home and try to make my stuff better than his?

It feels like the word respect is being thrown around in all the wrong ways in this thread. Asking permission is not giving respect, it's asking permission.

[Samson]

NO argument could convince me other then what AirTech jumped on. Stop preaching about it and start living it! Respect those who laid it down ... nuff said. If asking permission is showing respect then what the fuck ever, at least you had the thought, and THAT is what counts eh?

When I share my fuming tech or get asked about it I always reference James Yaun (he taught me) ... comes to my bats or lil 1's (Noah,squirrel) .... guess I'm just saying that "giving respect" is much more then just asking permission or giving credit. It's a frame of mind, once it's embedded it's like saying mam or opening doors for ladies ... it's just seems right, feels good making another person feel good about it ya know?

[ROGUE]

NO argument could convince me other then what AirTech jumped on. Stop preaching about it and start living it! Respect those who laid it down ... nuff said. If asking permission is showing respect then what the fuck ever, at least you had the thought, and THAT is what counts eh?

When I share my fuming tech or get asked about it I always reference James Yaun (he taught me) ... comes to my bats or lil 1's (Noah,squirrel) .... guess I'm just saying that "giving respect" is much more then just asking permission or giving credit. It's a frame of mind, once it's embedded it's like saying mam or opening doors for ladies.

Before I say this I want you to know that I'm saying this as an example, I am not directling this at you personally.

You say no argument can convince you otherwise. Since I don't know who Airtech is or what their stance is I can't comment on that, but... You are extremely disrespectful. All of your work that I have seen I have seen done before. Did you ask the inventor of the implosion, or the vortex permission to use their idea? Those are exact copies of other's. You say you give credit to James Yaun for all the things he's taught you. I have seen your work before, and until this thread I've never heard the name James Yaun, so in fact you are not giving him credit for your work, it's all over the internet and nobody knows.

Your last sentence is where it's at. Respect is completely a frame of mind and it's a moral judgment that changes from person to person. Your ideas of respect may be completely different than mine, but that certainly doesn't make either one of us wrong.

Again, I was just using your words as an example, I was not directing this to you personally.

[faded]

A munny is a simple design form, just like a spoon or a oney. This thread spews ego.

[Dan Kooper]

I do concider myself and all of you artist. Even though I've only been working for 7 years on my art.
I think you guys need to know the definition of artist.

A definition of Artist from Princeton.edu: creative person (a person whose creative work shows sensitivity and imagination).


Coyle: what you do with the munnys is fcking art! What other project brought that many other "creators" together. I thought what you did with the munny was a beautiful thing. It seemed like everyday I would see a totally different munny. From dead bunnies licking Popsicles - to vagina faced creatures. That IS fcking art. I don't care what anyone says.

I would say they are far more artistic than anything I've seen. No, not the blank ones, not the concept, the crazy ass ones you helped create.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m46kzsye0Q1qi0b52o1_1280.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m21fe9VM6Y1qfkx1mo1_500.jpg
This is art and these are artist!

[Dan Kooper]

I do concider myself and all of you artist. Even though I've only been working for 7 years on my art.
I think you guys need to know the definition of artist.

A definition of Artist from Princeton.edu: creative person (a person whose creative work shows sensitivity and imagination).


Coyle: what you do with the munnys is fcking art! What other project brought that many other "creators" together. I thought what you did with the munny was a beautiful thing. It seemed like everyday I would see a totally different munny. From dead bunnies licking Popsicles - to vagina faced creatures. That IS fcking art. I don't care what anyone says.

I would say they are far more artistic than anything I've seen. No, not the blank ones, not the concept, the crazy ass ones you helped create.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m46kzsye0Q1qi0b52o1_1280.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m21fe9VM6Y1qfkx1mo1_500.jpg
This is art and these are artist!

[Mr. Whale dick]

Im suprised by rouges stance seeing hes military...

Think about the glass world like the army....would you speak to a senior officer(fosho) in the same manner?
Would you go behind a officers back?.....respect is earned...(and your not even a glassblower)

and again...Making a few things copying someone is way diffrent that copying and crnking out someones design by the hundreds

[The Glass Fish]

Wow, there is a lot on opinions here. I knew there would be, and that is why I posted this. Not to start a fight, though. I wanted to have a respectful discussion online...(sorry, that was as funny to type as it will be to read)...about the topic.


I am not bashing the OP as you actually seem to have some respect, even if you didn't go to the source first.

Aymie, you are correct, sort of. I didn't seek permission to start this thread, but I did contact Coyle both here and on FB to let him know this thread was being started. He is in the loop because I brought him in. He probably would have heard about it anyways, but from the horses mouth and all that.

I have changed my mind, sort of, in that I actually won't be making a munny, at least not for public consumption. I am in fact very busy, and this was more of an exercise of thought than action for me. If Coyle ever gets a moment, I def would love to colab (hint, hint) though. That will probably be the only way I would do a munny for sale. That's just me. It seems the munny project was about colaboration anyways. I have soooo many ideas that are collecting dust in sketch books I should just start there.

Amyie, btw, I love your work. My wife and I bought a bracelet from you at the FFO in Dallas. A glassblower buys a glass pipe to give as a gift to another glassblower? Yup, and they loved it too. And after all these years, still never made a bracelet. I try and have respect. Nobody's perfect though.

[Dan Kooper]

And I have a feeling if you make a munny and put it online, when they see its not with coyle, you will get nothing but haters. They are already hating on D-Wrek. Coyle has a following like Justin bieber on Facebook.

[Dan Kooper]

Are you serious? I just seen a munny kid robot add on this page at the top. Hahaha.
South Park munnys!

[JBob]

And I have a feeling if you make a munny and put it online, when they see its not with coyle, you will get nothing but haters. They are already hating on D-Wrek. Coyle has a following like Justin bieber on Facebook.

DRock. and his newest munny he posted is pretty sweet.

[Dan Kooper]

Was it DRock? I try and not be on fb all to much. But I seen people talking shit about it still.
And the guy pumping out clear ones in San Diego is a duche. If I "hypothetically" made one. I would just put it in my living room. Something to remember this fad in our industry.
That's what it is. A fad.

[Samson]

Before I say this I want you to know that I'm saying this as an example, I am not directling this at you personally.

You say no argument can convince you otherwise. Since I don't know who Airtech is or what their stance is I can't comment on that, but... You are extremely disrespectful. All of your work that I have seen I have seen done before. Did you ask the inventor of the implosion, or the vortex permission to use their idea? Those are exact copies of other's. You say you give credit to James Yaun for all the things he's taught you. I have seen your work before, and until this thread I've never heard the name James Yaun, so in fact you are not giving him credit for your work, it's all over the internet and nobody knows.

Your last sentence is where it's at. Respect is completely a frame of mind and it's a moral judgment that changes from person to person. Your ideas of respect may be completely different than mine, but that certainly doesn't make either one of us wrong.

Again, I was just using your words as an example, I was not directing this to you personally.


You sir had a good debate going till .... I could say YOUR a dick .... but I'm not saying this to you personally, ya know?

[ROGUE]

A munny is a simple design form, just like a spoon or a oney. This thread spews ego.

Great word choice.

[ROGUE]

You sir had a good debate going till .... I could say YOUR a dick .... but I'm not saying this to you personally, ya know?

LOL. Sorry man, I truely wasn't making it personal, that's why I wrote TWO disclaimers. I only used your words because it was a perfect oportunity. I actually appreciate the answer you gave originally and think we might actually agree on the majority of the points. The way I talked in that thread is never a way I would talk to a person, and I really tried to make that clear before I even wrote the post.

And your example you gave is perfectly on point and on subject, I don't take offense to it one bit.

[bildo]

Aymee, Yes the fume trap is the sleeve air trappy tech, sorry if I called it wrong. Your post led me into another topic. If Rufus bit it first, does that make it ok for all of us to pile on? Your bracelets have already been bitten so is it ok for me to bite them also? I just dont get possessing styles or design. My favorite line of SLingers flick is when snodgrass is talking about discovering fume. I figured this out should I keep it to myself or should I share it with the world. Share it with eveybody.

This is as straight up as I can be, I dont want anybody telling me what I can and cant make. Especially if they themselves have ever seen something they liked and tried to make a version of it. I dont care if its a bracelet, an implosion or a munny. If I am a noob and I can make what your making, step your fucking game up!

I just wanna know where it stops? My pipes look different than everybody elses, but I use internal frit, I do blow ins, shirlies just like everybody else does. So what I am saying, Is the bracelet off limits or is it a bracelet with flowers on it? Can I make a coil potted bracelet pipe, or an iso bracelet pipe? May I make boro sticks flowers on a ISO spoon or a blow in?

If I made a bracelet it wouldnt be like yours, except that it is a BRACELET. Why is a bracelet different than a pipe? Would it be acceptable if I was from Tucson and sold to local shops? I want to know. Really, I do.

One of you senior members should write out rules for us noobs to follow. "show respect" isnt specific enough. It leaves too much to interpretation.

[Samson]

LOL. Sorry man, I truely wasn't making it personal, that's why I wrote TWO disclaimers. I only used your words because it was a perfect oportunity. I actually appreciate the answer you gave originally and think we might actually agree on the majority of the points. The way I talked in that thread is never a way I would talk to a person, and I really tried to make that clear before I even wrote the post.

And your example you gave is perfectly on point and on subject, I don't take offense to it one bit.

No worries at all, I do the exact same thing and I'm first to point out when I'm mistaken.

[ROGUE]

Im suprised by rouges stance seeing hes military...

Think about the glass world like the army....would you speak to a senior officer(fosho) in the same manner?
Would you go behind a officers back?.....respect is earned...(and your not even a glassblower)

and again...Making a few things copying someone is way diffrent that copying and crnking out someones design by the hundreds

It shouldn't surprise you. The military taught me and everybody else to think for themself. It is written in the UCMJ(the laws of the military) that an enlisted person must follow all lawful orders. It says nothing about respect. I have talked to several officers in the same way I am calmly discussing this topic. Officers are not off limit, I just can't get in there face and yell and scream. We are certainly allowed to disagree. To answer your question, yes, I would go behind and officers back and did on several occasions in combat. Those decisions saved the lives of people.

I do believe I am actually a glass blower. Just because I don't earn my entire living from it does not take away that title.

and your last sentence is kinda vague. What is a few things and why is it different? You're saying copying isn't copying? It might be more blatant the more you copy, but I can't see how the act is any less frowned upon. So if I make one copy of the Mona Lisa and sell it, that is ok?

The word respect encompasses a wide meaning. You are respectful if you are considerate, which is what this thread is about. Being considerate only goes so far. Calling people disrespectful just because they are curious seems harsh.

My definition of respect is a lot more strict, and I don't just hand respect out because somebody made a pretty piece of glass. I have seen tons of amazing glass in my life, but I can say I have never had respect for the glass or the artist without meeting them first. I may have admiration for the glass and I can certainly appreciate the hard work, but respect goes to the artist that I know, and that I know deserves it.

I respect myself, so I speak in a respectful manner to everybody until otherwise deserved. I do not believe I have said anything negative against anybody on the entire message board ever. Certainly not in this thread.

[ROGUE]

If I am a noob and I can make what your making, step your fucking game up!

One of you senior members should write out rules for us noobs to follow. "show respect" isnt specific enough. It leaves too much to interpretation.

Great post!

The first sentence I quoted is how I feel, but not just about noobs. If anybody can make what your making, make it better or do something different. It's called competition.

[mer]

i find your attitude mildly disrespectful. you owe a debt of gratitude to those who forged your path (in my opinion). you seem to be implicitly asking for a great deal of respect listing off your accomplishments. what goes around comes around, and here, you are still earning the right to be taken seriously.

[dustyg]

n/m

[mellofello]

Think I'm missing something here. Coyle didn't invent, design or have a hand in the origin of the munny. Every tom dick and harry was already making vynl ones, or brass ones, or what ever else people have so far made them from. There are hundreds of different designs. No one can even prove Coyle was the first to make and sell them made out of glass. I thought about doing it quite some time ago, never seen any of Coyle's work and certainly none of his munnys before this post so how can I bite on him. I wouldn't have been I would have been biting the designer of the munny just like Coyle did.

Further it seems some of you seem to think that its more acceptable for a big name to copy some thing (which is what Coyle did) than it is for a "newb" to copy something. That I just don't get at all. Copying is copying done well or done badly, I fail to see where skill or experience comes into this.

Lastly I fail to see why just because Coyle has sold lots of these, more than other people, he should some how have ownership of an idea/ design he copied or at least ownership of that design he copied when its made out of glass.

to be honest this thread has me feeling like I should make one of these out of bull shit

[Cameron]

There's Rogue going all "expert" again hahaha

[Mr. Whale dick]

Its like this....coyle worked hard to create a cash cow for himself...

Messing with a form for fun and playing with stuff if fine and fun..

Trying to steal milk from his cow is not...

[Icarus]

Slightly off topic, I just got a fortune cookie that read:

"Those who walk in others tracks leave no footprints."

So there's that.

[Mr. Whale dick]

You can scratch his cow under her chin and call her bessie.....


Maybe tip her over in the middle of the night...


But dont steal the milk

[mellofello]

What did he work hard for? Munnys were already a popular item. Someone did all the hard work for him. I see this like him setting up a franchise burger king, someone has done most that hard work for you now you just have to keep it running. Only difference is he didn't have to pay to set up his franchise he got that shit for free

[kage]

Could u even make one?

[Dan Kooper]

So wait, are you guys upset that coyle is making something out of glass that is already made from plastic and popular?
Or that other people want to make there own versions?
Or that people arnt giving "props" to the originators?

I don't think you should have to go out of your way to give "props". When people ask, yes I feel you can tell where it came from, if people care. Most don't ask.

If someone said whoa how's that change color I should tell them "Bob snodgrass invented it Dogg" no. They don't care. They don't know who he is. They are a consumer. If they asked how I discovered it I would most definately tell them about him and his cool vw bus he traveled to dead shows in. When I met him I thanke him for being him.
But for now I say it's silver and gold. Nobody asks more.

To think I should say "bob snograss" everytime I sell a prodo fumed spoon is ludicrous.

[mellofello]

Yes I could and yes it would probably be ugly (the first few at least). But what does that have to do with it? How much he may or may not have worked on his skills with glass over years does not reflect on his ownership of this design when produced in glass.

Don't get me wrong I think the munnys of his I have seen are excellent work and much better than any glass item I've ever made. But are you guys saying that if I was to come up with a design then Coyle was to copy it but in some way produce a better one he would then count as the designer and I would be biting him? Just because his was better made in some way?

[Dan Kooper]

And at least coyles munnys are made in America. Probably some of the few that Are.

[Mr. Whale dick]

Again....


We are not talking about a technique... Gols silver fume. Seals. Color combos or pattrens...

We are talking about direct copies of someones work they have worked hard to create a market for...

To jump on someones work like that is insulting...work hard to make your own market dont just rixe someone elses hard work creating a market

[Dan Kooper]

My bad. I thought silver fume and techniques were things people worked hard to create a market for.

[Dan Kooper]

A lot of glassblowers use popular things to sell there glass. Btgb makes aqua teen hunger force glass. Skulls sell so people shape tubes and pendants like skulls to appeal to a market that's already there. Probably beause it's fun to make. It gives you guidelines to go by. If it doesn't look exactly like it it looks terrible. It's harder to copy a 3D object perfectly than make your own. That's why I see pictures of him using a micrometer in pics. He makes them exactly like the real thing. It's rather impressive I think. Not my personal "thing" but still pretty cool idea he has made thousands on. I'm sure it will get boring and he will move into something else. Everything else he makes is pretty original. Those monkeys are so sweet. My friends got one and the craftsmanship is remarkable.

[Bo Diddles]

Again....


We are not talking about a technique... Gols silver fume. Seals. Color combos or pattrens...

We are talking about direct copies of someones work they have worked hard to create a market for...

To jump on someones work like that is insulting...work hard to make your own market dont just rixe someone elses hard work creating a market

Some people just don't get it.

[kage]

I always shout out "the game is afoot" after I make a Sherlock

[kage]

Also, to get inspiration from a munny is one thing, to get inspiration from coyle's munny is douchery.

nice work btw coyle, keep rockin those out!

[Dan Kooper]

Well yeah. A glassblower is making them already. So I wouldn't want to make one. But if I see something I could make in glass I haven't seen yet I would try.

[faded]

Again....


We are not talking about a technique... Gols silver fume. Seals. Color combos or pattrens...

We are talking about direct copies of someones work they have worked hard to create a market for...

To jump on someones work like that is insulting...work hard to make your own market dont just rixe someone elses hard work creating a market

"direct copy" as in an exact replica of the vagina or monkey? or "direct copy" as in the simple design form?

the market was already there.

[Dan Kooper]

I'm sure it helped kid robot get more fans too. I never heard of one before coyles. Now they are crazy popular. And sell for crazy amounts.
Im sure a lot of people that have glass munnys went and got vinyl ones too. Some I seen bought them for the kid robot munny box.

[mellofello]

We are talking about direct copies of someones work they have worked hard to create a market for...

To jump on someones work like that is insulting...work hard to make your own market dont just rixe someone elses hard work creating a market

Exactly, to my mind that is what coyle did. If he had created a market for figures made into pipes that would be cool and I'd be in full support but all his figures are modeled around the munny basic form. I don't really see why he would do that unless it was to tap into an existing market. A market for munnys of all types made of all kinds of materials.

[daveabr]

I'm sure Coyle would be fine with people being inspired by his work. Isn't that the point of art? Don't think it's douchery.

I think if people are just using the munny form, and doing whatever they want with it, even clear, what's the big deal? If the artist who made the first glass munny, actually invented the munny shape, that would be different. But, the munny was obviously a pre-existing thing that inspired Coyle. So, he took it where his vision wanted it to go. What's wrong with someone seeing that, also being inspired, and doing the same? The munny is a vastly popular thing, so it's appeal is obviously very big. If Coyle made one, then posts it on FB and GP and everywhere else, it's most likely going to inspire folks. Dude's shit is really nice, it's going to make people go...ooooohh ahhhhh...i wanna try. I remember the first time I saw a reversal, I had to make it. First time I saw an inline, I was perplexed, and had to give it a shot. What makes his munny art specifically his? Guess that is the question.

If an artist decides that his best expression is clear, what is wrong with that? What if Eschuke made some clear, crumpled up trash munnys? Would it be art then, even if it was clear and paper thin? Yet DRock's clear one would not be?

This is a confusing thread, as it's easy to agree with everyone's points. But I guess those are my thoughts on it.


However, I do feel, if someone took a pic of Coyle's finished Munny piece, and tried to copy it to a T, and make 1000 of them, that is totally uncalled for, and would warrant plenty of criticism.

[JBob]

to get inspiration from coyle's munny is douchery.

hmm...

Sorry Coyle, I wanted to get some inspiration from your munnys but I'm trying not to be a douche bag.

Ya im making fun of semantics at this point, but isnt that what this thread is about? regardless of anyone's opinion or whats right and wrong i don't think anyone here has made a good argument for either side...

[kage]

Its the "oh why didn't I think of that, I'm going to try one now" that's unoriginal douchery if u ask me.

[mellofello]

Dave, great post I feel what you are saying, apparently I have to spread some rep first .....

[daveabr]

i see what you're saying. that line just read funny. art is supposed to inspire, so it didn't register in the right way

[JBob]

Its the "oh why didn't I think of that, I'm going to try one now" that's unoriginal douchery if u ask me.

Brilliant

[djdascool]

Ever since seeing Munny pieces being produced I've been in awe & inspired at the insane vision & talent some of you guys & girls have flameworking. I'm glad I found this thread because it has answered the question for me that I can make a munny to express my capabilities as an artist. I even have a design I sketched up which after googling to see if it's been done before...should be unique & my own creation. By no means will I go into mass production but if my idea works out I may make a series of them signed & dated.

I've been blowing glass for 12 years but I've never made or used an oil rig before. I have made male ground joint slides so though. I do have a few questions.

What brand/size of ground joint fittings do you guys suggest?

Are all oil rigs & munnys water filtered or can they be dry? If only water filtered how does the downstem work(There's transitionals, diffusers, double grind adapters 14/19/22/49/7000 choices)?


Forgive my noobtardation.

[JBob]

Ever since seeing Munny pieces being produced I've been in awe & inspired at the insane vision & talent some of you guys & girls have flameworking. I'm glad I found this thread because it has answered the question for me that I can make a munny to express my capabilities as an artist. I even have a design I sketched up which after googling to see if it's been done before...should be unique & my own creation. By no means will I go into mass production but if my idea works out I may make a series of them signed & dated.

I've been blowing glass for 12 years but I've never made or used an oil rig before. I have made male ground joint slides so though. I do have a few questions.

What brand/size of ground joint fittings do you guys suggest?

Are all oil rigs & munnys water filtered or can they be dry? If only water filtered how does the downstem work(There's transitionals, diffusers, double grind adapters 14/19/22/49/7000 choices)?


Forgive my noobtardation.

I have seen at least a few munny's dunn's that were dry (though i cant even be sure if coyle made themat this point). 14mm and 18mm are the most standard tapered joint sizes for bubblers and tubes lately. Lenz from germany are the highest quality in my opinion but i havent tried out adam's yet...as for the filtration, most people prefer 2-5 holes for an oil device, but there are more extreme forms of diffusion as well. Coyles munnys are fixed downstems, and there is a male joint sealed onto the ring seal from the diffuser, so the nail that is heated for oil consumption can sit right on the male joint and be covered with the female

[ROGUE]

We are talking about direct copies of someones work they have worked hard to create a market for...

To jump on someones work like that is insulting...work hard to make your own market dont just rixe someone elses hard work creating a market

I didn't see a single one of those things that were a direct copy of anything. Beside the fact that the were an od shape figurine they have nothing that is the same as anything else.

Is it just the fact that these are being called munnys that has everone worked up? If these were just no name figurines would everybody be ok with that? I'm not being sarcastic, I truely want to get and idea of everybodies view points and see if that is what the issue is.

[mellofello]

Dave, great post I feel what you are saying, apparently I have to spread some rep first .....

[JBob]

I didn't see a single one of those things that were a direct copy of anything. Beside the fact that the were an od shape figurine they have nothing that is the same as anything else.

Is it just the fact that these are being called munnys that has everone worked up? If these were just no name figurines would everybody be ok with that? I'm not being sarcastic, I truely want to get and idea of everybodies view points and see if that is what the issue is.

whenever describing them to others i call them humanoid caricatures.

Using another medium, painting: painters have always had sections of there life segmented into influential periods, a lot of time they are based on who they study with or are influenced by or personal matters at the time. Popular painters, when looking at there body of work over a few decades or whatever, you see there different periods of development and learning and progression. A good portion is marked by popular styles and artists at the time, its influence its not disrespect. But the more popular artists also seem to have a sort of prime, there most popular years where they will inevitably influence others. Other budding artists of the medium while he is in his prime derive strong influence and the cycle is repeated.

Does this not work in other mediums like glass? or is it because we dont have a lot of 30+ year pipe veterns to look back at there time line of work and try to piece together who they were influenced by? i doubt everyone is going from prodo inside out to baller status overnight...

[ROGUE]

i find your attitude mildly disrespectful. you owe a debt of gratitude to those who forged your path (in my opinion). you seem to be implicitly asking for a great deal of respect listing off your accomplishments. what goes around comes around, and here, you are still earning the right to be taken seriously.

Sure I will conceed that, but since I do not believe I have could you be a bit more specific? I demand absolutely no respect, I posted my personal best acomplishment to give an illistration of mylife experience. It was not intended to brag and I can even say that it was all bs and I was just trying to make a point if it would make me sound less indignant.

About being taken serious... Well, I hope to be taken serious. I try to type well and structure sentences and responses in a legible manner. I don't call people names or ever intentionally offend somebody. I am here trying to learn the craft, not stir the pot. I am simply voicing my opinion in what I feel to be a very civilized manner. I am however, certainly up to taking critique on my message board etiquette, or glass community etiquette.

If you feel disrespected by my opinion and the way I voiced it I appologize, it was not meant that way to you or anybody else, it's just my opinion.

[ROGUE]

Does this not work in other mediums like glass? or is it because we dont have a lot of 30+ year pipe veterns to look back at there time line of work and try to piece together who they were influenced by? i doubt everyone is going from prodo inside out to baller status overnight...

I think it doesn't yet because glass blowing has never been so publicly big as it is now. The is somewhat the beginning of pop glass blowing. Since there are so many new glass blowers showing up I think the some of the vet may feel threatened when they see young artist that they believe is or could be better.

With a longer history I think things will be more competitive with people seeing who can make the best designs better and people not so worried that people copy them.

[The Glass Fish]

Does this not work in other mediums like glass? or is it because we dont have a lot of 30+ year pipe veterns to look back at there time line of work and try to piece together who they were influenced by? i doubt everyone is going from prodo inside out to baller status overnight...

Definitely this is the case. My work (16 years) reflects what I was doing and who I was around at the time. I started in a family lampworking business, and didn't start pipes till about 10 years ago. Only fulltime pipes for about 4 years. I've had marble kicks, and goblet kicks, and jewelery kick. Hell, I was this close (holds fingers a blunts width apart) from being the supplier of glass gauged body jewelery for Hot Topic once. I even made dildos. Yup. Dildos. My list of influences is too long to list.


I think it doesn't yet because glass blowing has never been so publicly big as it is now. The is somewhat the beginning of pop glass blowing. Since there are so many new glass blowers showing up I think the some of the vet may feel threatened when they see young artist that they believe is or could be better.

With a longer history I think things will be more competitive with people seeing who can make the best designs better and people not so worried that people copy them.

Funny, but this thought feels like it is a decade old.

[Dan Kooper]

I think this thread is giving me CVS, or Computer Vision Syndrome. Each post is huge.

[ROGUE]

Funny, but this thought feels like it is a decade old.

I'm not sure what that is referenced to, but it's probably because I'm old lol

[Role]

I really admire the talent required to create these figurines and applaud the artists.

But...

In regard to the "Munny" being anyone's "cash cow".

Doesn't that right belong to KidRobot, exclusively ??

Should Mr. Coyle enter into a licensing agreement paying KidRobot for being able to
profit from their trademark ? (not trying to be shitty, that is what is happening)

Saying "Munnys" belong to anyone in the glass community makes no sense to me.

[Mr. Whale dick]

YeH nice post dave ...from someone who imports china glass...

[menty666]

You sir had a good debate going till .... I could say YOUR a dick .... but I'm not saying this to you personally, ya know?

To which he might parry, "You're a dick!" Which would be the correct word.

Though you kids wouldn't want to do that, personal attacks are bad, mmkay?

[CoyleCondenser]

I really don't feel like repeating myself, I think some people should go back to page one and read through my previous comments. At the very least Im glad that my work has inspired so much debate among my fellow glassblowers. Flame on!

Here are some unoriginal copies of KidRobot's design, they are considered craft:

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p240/CoyleCondenser/066.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p240/CoyleCondenser/IMG_3216.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p240/CoyleCondenser/IMG_4894.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p240/CoyleCondenser/Munny-Aug2012-001_1.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p240/CoyleCondenser/IMG_2240.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p240/CoyleCondenser/IMG_1361_zpsfe4b067d.jpg
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p240/CoyleCondenser/DSC_0005_zpsd8b51a1b.jpg

[Captain Glass]

Hadn't seen any of these before and didn't know what a " munny " was before reading this thread
But they are all very sick

[Riley]

doing what you love and it pays the bills. it's bound to inspire the ire.

[ROGUE]

Coyle,

Those are insane. I think they're totally awesome.

[Role]

Those are an amazing display of skill and talented glassworking.

I would give my soul and two major organs to get to that level.

[ACE]

Here are some unoriginal copies of KidRobot's design, they are considered craft:

I don't mean to derail the topic here, and for the record I appreciate the sentiment of what you're trying to say, but this is the second time you've used the word craft in a derogatory sense in this thread. Can we not bash the "C" word anymore? If there's anything these next generation glassblowers need in addition to having more respect for others and the styles they've developed it's respect for the type of craftmanship that being a half decent glassblower requires. Crafts are fucking awesome. Thanks!

[mer]

hear hear!!!

[HOSS]

Outstanding work, I wouldn't hesitate to call it art. In fact I think you could safely say it's "High Art". :dieslaugh

But with so much talk in this thread about giving respect and props where they're due, shouldn't there be some credit given to the people who colabed on those?

[ROGUE]

Outstanding work, I wouldn't hesitate to call it art. In fact I think you could safely say it's "High Art". :dieslaugh

But with so much talk in this thread about giving respect and props where they're due, shouldn't there be some credit given to the people who colabed on those?

In my opinion yes. I doubt I would ever own one because its not my thing, but they look great. The people that created them deserve all the credit for creating them with their own hands.

[Aymie]

I certainly think they are art, but I would think most will put them in the low brow art category...a term I have had a hard time making peace with. Since the vinyl toys they emulate are low brow, I would call it high end low brow, and skilled craftsmanship. In the last few years I have fallen in love with low brow art, which I often refer to as art for the non-pretentious.

[daveabr]

YeH nice post dave ...from someone who imports china glass...


guess you got me there. totally discredits my opinion since I work at a raw material supplier. on the contrary, that fact actually gives me some unique insight on the industry. guess you feel the same way about mtn, winship, wale, ust, EU....... what does that have to do with this topic at all? aren't munnys probably mass produced in Asia also?

[istandalone24/7]

Well yeah. A glassblower is making them already. So I wouldn't want to make one. But if I see something I could make in glass I haven't seen yet I would try.

pipes and marbles have been made before...does this mean you make no pipes or marbles at your torch?

[Aymie]

Aymee, Yes the fume trap is the sleeve air trappy tech, sorry if I called it wrong. Your post led me into another topic. If Rufus bit it first, does that make it ok for all of us to pile on? Your bracelets have already been bitten so is it ok for me to bite them also? I just dont get possessing styles or design. My favorite line of SLingers flick is when snodgrass is talking about discovering fume. I figured this out should I keep it to myself or should I share it with the world. Share it with eveybody.

This is as straight up as I can be, I dont want anybody telling me what I can and cant make. Especially if they themselves have ever seen something they liked and tried to make a version of it. I dont care if its a bracelet, an implosion or a munny. If I am a noob and I can make what your making, step your fucking game up!

I just wanna know where it stops? My pipes look different than everybody elses, but I use internal frit, I do blow ins, shirlies just like everybody else does. So what I am saying, Is the bracelet off limits or is it a bracelet with flowers on it? Can I make a coil potted bracelet pipe, or an iso bracelet pipe? May I make boro sticks flowers on a ISO spoon or a blow in?

If I made a bracelet it wouldnt be like yours, except that it is a BRACELET. Why is a bracelet different than a pipe? Would it be acceptable if I was from Tucson and sold to local shops? I want to know. Really, I do.

One of you senior members should write out rules for us noobs to follow. "show respect" isnt specific enough. It leaves too much to interpretation.



The senior members write out rules for y'all constantly, you don't fucking listen.

While I love what I have gained, sometimes I miss the days of protecting this craft as a secret. So much sharing a free giving of knowledge has created this rash of idiots who think they don't have to work hard to get where we are. They think they can learn what we do and then make what we make. It doesn't work that way. You can't learn creativity or ambition or a desire to improve.

So copy away bildo, it won't get you far. And it won't look as good. Make that same simple black sherlie with rainbow flowers, it isn't going to shine like mine does. Mine is something beautiful that I created, regardless of how simple it may be. I hunted for the right colors, I learned to with the colors that have a slightly different coe, I learned to surface work them with acute angles and a 0% failure rate, and I love every single one I do. You won't have any of that. You will simply have a copy, dead and soulless, and none of my customers will buy from you. The people who buy my work, want my work. As I said, I offer the option of corn's bracelets...they want mine. I have built my reputation on perfection and cleanliness, something that is rarely considered by those of your caliber.

And yes, please use Rufus as an example of leading the way for you and all those interested in copying and undercutting. He is hated by everyone in town and not welcome in the places where I do business. Join him...please. As a matter of fact, take every douchebag wannabe half ass crafter that was ever born at the fart arm with you. And take Adam too. You all fit together so well.

If you can do what I am doing, I should step it up? If you have interest in doing exactly what anyone is doing, you are not an artist, just an opportunist. For many, this is just about money. For me, it's about loving what I do, personal and artistic growth, and being fully self expressed.

If all you have interest in expressing is someone else's anything, you are missing out on the greater part of your humanity.

[Icarus]

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=14061&d=1343012360

..

[d3rk]

What would be the problem with touching it with a reball? I didnt know what a Munny was so I googled it. I didnt see any made of glass. How could anybody possibly bite something that is so bitten? When somebody else has borrowed something rather than invented it themselves it only makes them the first biter. What a great claim to have. Hey dont do this. because I copied it first is crazy to me. And just because a member of our community was the first, doesnt mean that the idea was his or hers. Please post your munny, cant wait to see different takes of it. Your work looks tight, someday I hope to be able to sculpt a munny. Who will I be ripping off when I do?

Apparently, Coyle has been asked about peeps making the munnys. My view is the same as Bildo's. If you jocked it get jocked.

[istandalone24/7]

The senior members write out rules for y'all constantly, you don't fucking listen.

While I love what I have gained, sometimes I miss the days of protecting this craft as a secret. So much sharing a free giving of knowledge has created this rash of idiots who think they don't have to work hard to get where we are. They think they can learn what we do and then make what we make. It doesn't work that way. You can't learn creativity or ambition or a desire to improve.

So copy away bildo, it won't get you far. And it won't look as good. Make that same simple black sherlie with rainbow flowers, it isn't going to shine like mine does. Mine is something beautiful that I created, regardless of how simple it may be. I hunted for the right colors, I learned to with the colors that have a slightly different coe, I learned to surface work them with acute angles and a 0% failure rate, and I love every single one I do. You won't have any of that. You will simply have a copy, dead and soulless, and none of my customers will buy from you. The people who buy my work, want my work. As I said, I offer the option of corn's bracelets...they want mine. I have built my reputation on perfection and cleanliness, something that is rarely considered by those of your caliber.

And yes, please use Rufus as an example of leading the way for you and all those interested in copying and undercutting. He is hated by everyone in town and not welcome in the places where I do business. Join him...please. As a matter of fact, take every douchebag wannabe half ass crafter that was ever born at the fart arm with you. And take Adam too. You all fit together so well.

If you can do what I am doing, I should step it up? If you have interest in doing exactly what anyone is doing, you are not an artist, just an opportunist. For many, this is just about money. For me, it's about loving what I do, personal and artistic growth, and being fully self expressed.

If all you have interest in expressing is someone else's anything, you are missing out on the greater part of your humanity.

wow with an attitude like that i'm suprised people buy anything from you, let alone give you time of day. that was a bit harsh. i can agree with your view on the people who just want to copy and cash in, but how many glassblowers decided they wanted to do this because they saw someone else doing it and it looked "cool"? many. for the first bit of glass career about all you can do is copy, until your skills start to develop.
we could say the same thing about you, aymie. because you make "glass art" and so many before you have done the same thing, well your just copying all your predecessors. everything has already been done by someone else for the most part.
get over yourself.

[JBob]

43176

[Dan Kooper]

pipes and marbles have been made before...does this mean you make no pipes or marbles at your torch?

I'm talking about concepts I see that are not already glass. Like say the cup rigs. Great idea. Executed well. But it's been done. If your making something just to test your skills that's one thing. But to make one to be one of the cool kids is another.
Everyone has to sit in the front of the bus when there the new kid. Then eventually they grow and sit in the back.

I'm sick of this thread. It makes are community look ignorant and arrogant.

[d3rk]

...pictures of dead horses... yeah I think that's a bit excessive. I didnt bother reading the last 7 pages. If I want drama I'll push a button and sit on the couch.

[Julietherealjules]

I'm pretty surprised at the egos in this thread. Disappointed, too.

[Icarus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eDOJ4L0Edk

I am the Walrus. I am the Walrus.

[faded]

we need our own reality show on Mtv.

[Dan Kooper]

Glassmasters on spike. I feel it coming. Cheesy like inkmasters and everything. We could all argue about being original. I'm getting to the point that arguing about originality isn't original anymore. It's fb stylie

[istandalone24/7]

I'm talking about concepts I see that are not already glass. Like say the cup rigs. Great idea. Executed well. But it's been done. If your making something just to test your skills that's one thing. But to make one to be one of the cool kids is another.
Everyone has to sit in the front of the bus when there the new kid. Then eventually they grow and sit in the back.

I'm sick of this thread. It makes are community look ignorant and arrogant.

gottcha and agreed ;)

[JBob]

So, I want to make some munnys, what torch do I get?

[Dan Kooper]

A Triple coyled torch with a condenser
Then just condense your coyle and your done.
Bam an original, over the top, one of a few hundred spunny

[JBob]

Doug Funny Munny

[Dan Kooper]

Qualeman!!!
That's my haloween costume. Just a belt and some undies.

[bildo]

The senior members write out rules for y'all constantly, you don't fucking listen.

While I love what I have gained, sometimes I miss the days of protecting this craft as a secret. So much sharing a free giving of knowledge has created this rash of idiots who think they don't have to work hard to get where we are. They think they can learn what we do and then make what we make. It doesn't work that way. You can't learn creativity or ambition or a desire to improve.

So copy away bildo, it won't get you far. And it won't look as good. Make that same simple black sherlie with rainbow flowers, it isn't going to shine like mine does. Mine is something beautiful that I created, regardless of how simple it may be. I hunted for the right colors, I learned to with the colors that have a slightly different coe, I learned to surface work them with acute angles and a 0% failure rate, and I love every single one I do. You won't have any of that. You will simply have a copy, dead and soulless, and none of my customers will buy from you. The people who buy my work, want my work. As I said, I offer the option of corn's bracelets...they want mine. I have built my reputation on perfection and cleanliness, something that is rarely considered by those of your caliber.

And yes, please use Rufus as an example of leading the way for you and all those interested in copying and undercutting. He is hated by everyone in town and not welcome in the places where I do business. Join him...please. As a matter of fact, take every douchebag wannabe half ass crafter that was ever born at the fart arm with you. And take Adam too. You all fit together so well.

If you can do what I am doing, I should step it up? If you have interest in doing exactly what anyone is doing, you are not an artist, just an opportunist. For many, this is just about money. For me, it's about loving what I do, personal and artistic growth, and being fully self expressed.

If all you have interest in expressing is someone else's anything, you are missing out on the greater part of your humanity.

It sounds like you agree with me. You are better than me so your product is gonna sell over mine. You dont own the bracelet. Now, I see your work and appreciate it everywhere I go. Do you see my work? Does it look like I am bent on copying and uncleanly work? I try hard to be my own glassblower. Dont you currently work at the fart farm? Dont you think it is disrespectful to lump me in with a group of people who you recently decided to teach? I wouldnt knock off your work, I am just curious about whose ass to kiss so that I can continue being a g flameworker. Your post was depressing, ten years in the game and threatened by noobs learning things? I will earn my respect just the same as you did. I started at the same place as you did. For 2 years in I prolly even have the same skills that you did at the same time.

Oh, can I get that ford part number so I can make some flower jars just like you? Look at my work in your local shops before you tell me that I and everybody that learned with me can just quit. I try and work and sell and work. I invite you to my studio, come by, get to know me then if you still think I dont deserve a place in the glass world we can go from there. If respect is the issue, why would you disrespect me?

[istandalone24/7]

a hot head and some quartz. it may take a while though.

[Dan Kooper]

I want to see a copy of the 18" munny. Not this little 7" munny. That would be impressive

[Aymie]

Y'all are misunderstanding some of what I am saying.

I am not saying everyone from the fart arm is a problem. But many have been. And no, I am no longer working there, nor will I ever have anything to do with Adam in the future.

I get that we all copy. Mimicking is part of learning. I am talking about creating something with intent for it to fit in to a market that was created by someone else, in a way that effects their marketability. Some girl was making $7 bracelets years back. We simply wanted to find her and get her to raise her prices. I didn't sell to corns distributor and so on.

Bildo asked a question and I answered it. And I have no idea what your work looks like, and I am not saying you are copying. My response was directly related to your questions.

[Mr. Whale dick]

At least this thread has added to my "dont let in my studio list"

[Dan Kooper]

Well at least something positive came from this disaster. I always thought most people knew that copying was not a good idea. Not basic forms. People's production lines. Just sounds lame.

[Aymie]

At least this thread has added to my "dont let in my studio list"


And it earned me my first real infraction!

[drewspuppet]

And it earned me my first real infraction!

Actually if you looked at it; it is for a different thread where you were insulting another artist, being rude for no reason and uncalled for... I have no problem with what you said here

[Role]

At least this thread has added to my "dont let in my studio list"

I'm comin' in, but I will be disguised as a ninja and you won't know until I've learned all your secrets. :D

As a bonus, I will bring a friend to help with that hair problem in your avatar. :D :D

[kage]

Hair jokes= low blow

tread lightly

[Ikensel]

His hair is up for saleand hair jokes are funny.

[Lmwfy]

Holy Derailment!



However, I do feel, if someone took a pic of Coyle's finished Munny piece, and tried to copy it to a T, and make 1000 of them, that is totally uncalled for, and would warrant plenty of criticism.

^^ this is what this thread was/is/should've been about

[TlkQ]

i have no idea what a munny is. really weird name for something tho..

Too cool to Google.

[hashmasta-kut]

we dont have that up here.

[Aymie]

Actually if you looked at it; it is for a different thread where you were insulting another artist, being rude for no reason and uncalled for... I have no problem with what you said here

I stand corrected. Funny you agree here and not there. I am discussing the exact same thing in both threads. I was just actually referring to one person in that thread. If you think he is a swell guy who needs protecting, you must not really know him or his work.

[istandalone24/7]

Y'all are misunderstanding some of what I am saying.

I am not saying everyone from the fart arm is a problem. But many have been. And no, I am no longer working there, nor will I ever have anything to do with Adam in the future.

I get that we all copy. Mimicking is part of learning. I am talking about creating something with intent for it to fit in to a market that was created by someone else, in a way that effects their marketability. Some girl was making $7 bracelets years back. We simply wanted to find her and get her to raise her prices. I didn't sell to corns distributor and so on.

Bildo asked a question and I answered it. And I have no idea what your work looks like, and I am not saying you are copying. My response was directly related to your questions.


that's america/capitalism, baby. do you think Acura should lower their prices because Kia sells so cheap?

[Matt P]

we dont have that up here.

Yet :)

[Aymie]

Are you seriously responding to him saying he doesn't have google in Canada?!

[Matt P]

no, no Munnies in canada, jesus christ, and honestly if I had noticed that this thread had been left alone for a couple days I wouldn't have responded at all. Just an American making a cynical joke about Canada, a place that I love...

[Aymie]

I was just making sure no one was catering to his drivel.

See, it's not just noobs.

[byron3]

Excuse me, I am from the SPCA and we have reports of dead horses around here, Who is in charge??
[Strolls over to impression in ground and begins examining remains of horse hide with a magnifying glass]
Hmmmmmmmmmm ................. no Brand, if only these horses had been BRANDED ......... I would know who had OWNERSHIP!!

And I thought this was the glass forum, I knew if I looked around long enough I would find a thread on "Mustangs" ..............
Thank God Henry Ford was capable of conceiving the car!! Brilliant man, but others have come along since who make "Cars" ........
Say real quickly here who designed the first Ford Mustang??

As Lee Iacocca's assistant general manager and chief engineer, Donald N. Frey was the head engineer for the Mustang project (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_%28first_generation%29)
Now ever heard of Carol Shelby??
How about Jack Roush or Roush Engineering??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_variants

Pull any Mustang into your shop and lay down a really pro paint job on it, flip flop paint and maybe some panels with ghost flames ...........
You want to make a claim to fame, paint and body person would be your claim to fame. Now if you are like "Nubby" from OCC then you have every right to make those types of claims. Mad skills to the max without a doubt. Do you reckon Nubby maybe puts his initial's somewhere on his finished work??

Does that mean as an amateur I can not paint Mustangs??
Can I not build Stangs and replicate the results of these other specialty car crafters.

Society has already done the heavy lifting on these issues.

Ever watch Antiques Road Show??
Makers marks??

Anyone own a Kevin O'Grady Signature Pendant?? Seems the man had this odd style of making signature cane and signing each and every piece ........... his initial and the year ............ kind of takes any doubt away to those who know.
He did pendants, same as any of the skilled lampers around here can do.

Perhaps before we claim ownership of something we put our on marks on it!!
I mean after all be proud enough to sign your work ............ then there will be no doubt in others minds.

So was I confused?? Was I looking for the car forum or trying to make a point??
Coyle already stated the legal aspects and his thoughts.
Mad props to you as a glass worker Sir, I am sure I would be proud to own a piece of your glass whether it be a Munny, a Spoon or a Bat.
Fish, thanks for the seed thought ............ now go pull you a Stang in and start that custom build .................

[Aymie]

If you are going to build a car, why on earth would you pick a mustang? Now, if you are just using it for the horse connection, I can excuse that. If you really want to build a car, go with something really cool...like a Riviera...or a Galaxie

[ROGUE]

if you are going to build a car, why on earth would you pick a mustang? Now, if you are just using it for the horse connection, i can excuse that. If you really want to build a car, go with something really cool...like a riviera...or a galaxie

lmao!!!

[TlkQ]

lmao!!!

I know right? Not that I like rustangs very much, but the suggested alternatives are priceless.

[mer]

she's watched her share of restorations go down, I reckon she's entitled to an opinion on the matter.

[VertigoGlass]

I dunno Im not a fan of mustangs but I LOVED the last one we built before i quit building Pro cars for a living. then again when I was done with it only 15-20% was actually original mustang anymore lol

[Aymie]

I know right? Not that I like rustangs very much, but the suggested alternatives are priceless.

Are you questioning my taste in classic cars?! Bah...to hell with you and my hunny.

[Cameron]

Galaxie's are bad ass. Make mine a 7 liter!

[TlkQ]

I'm an import guy. Not the ricer civics and shit. RWD or AWD only. I used to build 240sx's. God I miss those days.

[Dan Kooper]

I'm more of a Lamborghini in the winter and a vw pop top bus in the summer kind of guy. Westfelia or bust!

[hashmasta-kut]

Are you seriously responding to him saying he doesn't have google in Canada?!

you didnt seriously respond to him seriously responding to not having google up here did you?>>!<<?

[honestcharlie]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=google+Canada

[aREa541]

Somebody please put this thread out of its misery. We can tell the kids it ran away.

[Mecha]

We can tell the kids it ran away.

Or that it now lives on a nice big farm somewhere upstate.

[Matt P]

Will there be sandwiches at the farm? The thread will get hungry up there :)

[Dan Kooper]

Where's my sandwich? There's my sandwich....

[CoyleCondenser]

These are really cool:
http://chelseagallerista.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/lyons-wier-gallery-jan-hulings-beaded-munny-doll/

[faded]

These are really cool:
http://chelseagallerista.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/lyons-wier-gallery-jan-hulings-beaded-munny-doll/


WOW!! that's a lot of tweak. i wonder how many beads go into one of those.