Just got my first kiln... Please Help!

[WigWagScaliwag]

Bought a used AIM 84bd off ebay recently and just got it yesterday but when I opened up the box it was in I found that the kiln had been damaged during shipping. The damage is only in the bricks. Some have chunks broken off including some broken off around the heating elements and the lid appears to have a pretty nice crack. I contacted the seller this morning and he offered to sned me a kiln coat and repair kit or I can file a claim with UPS. Or is it really that big a deal? I can't upload pics till tonite when I get home but was wondering if anybody had experience with something similar or ever had to repair kiln brick with one of these kits? Any and all suggestions/ advice is welcome. I am quite new to all of this and am unsure of where to go from here. Thanks

[JBob]

repair it as best u can, but if it heats to temp properly and holds its heat properly otherwise i wouldn't sweat it too much. pics would really help, it might need work if it got thrashed.

[Joseph E.]

Wow Im surprised at how calm you are about the situation haha Id be pissed as hell cursing the world lol props... how much did you pay for the kiln? And did you buy it from a manufacturer or a former owner? Personally I would have argued with the seller to just reverse the entire transaction and have him post a claim with UPS. I hate buying expensive things that are damaged because it makes me think about what else is going to go wrong in the future. If the seller wont reverse the deal Id take the free repair kits and try to file a claim with UPS myself then purchase a new one from somewhere. And if that doesnt end up working then repair it as best as you can.

This would be my way of handling a situation like this bc I dont know too much about kilns. Maybe its not that big of a deal but given my lack of knowledge about kilns I, myself, would be skeptical about leaving a damaged kiln thats set at high temperatures alone. Just make sure that everything is working properly before you leave it alone. last thing you want is to burn down your house/studio. good luck with it.

P.S.Arguing and pretending to be a jerk is sometimes necessary in situations like this if it means saving $500.

[Aymie]

A used kiln is going to have cracks. It's unavoidable.

Go to the paragon website. www.paragonweb.com

They have loads of kiln maintenance and repair info. You can fix pretty much everything yourself.

[WigWagScaliwag]

Here are pictures. Every piece of it has damage. Mostly what scares me is I'm not sure how safe it would be with all the damage near the elements.

45269

45270

45271

45272

45273

45274

45275

45276

45277

[RioGlass]

That looks crazy trashed. I wouldn't take it unless you paid cheap....

[rvp117]

I know its none of my business, but isn't it the sellers fault that he didn't package it properly. Every manufacturer recommends that you sellers have their kiln professionally packaged, but atleast he could of put a block of Styrofoam in between the elements to keep it from cracking. I bought a kiln of ebay and it came in with minor to nil damage. USPS is so hard to deal with you'll likely never see a dime unless you take it up with PayPal. Seriously hope you get this sorted out.

[WigWagScaliwag]

I bought it as a pacjage deal. Came with a Nortel Major, regs, tools, some color, etc, etc. Basically I blew my wad gettin this stuff. Just starting out, lots of stuff to buy, you guys remember so I defenitely can't just go pick up a new one just like that. Wish I would have thought to take a picture but the seller had wedged a small wooden box inside one of the rings of the kiln (the one with the elements) and I could barely get it out. It was shipped UPS with "Fragile" stickers all over. Shithead

[Aymie]

While it sucks that it looks that way, it looks totally functional to me.

Patch it, be careful with it in the meantime. I would plug it in and see if it works.

[menty666]

That can probably be patched up, and like Aymie said, just be careful not to make it any worse in the mean time. If you plug it in and it heats up, order a patch kit and don't forget to wear a mask when you fix it.

Shipping sucks..

[H1JACK3R]

Fixing kilns is more intimidating than it actually is.

I had my kiln blow (Paragon) and didn't know what was wrong. Tried to call and just ask basic questions (hoping I could probe until they offered me a PDF version of their technicians manual), but the lady knew even less about kilns than I do, and honestly didn't have anything to offer than to send it in. :puzzled:

I went ahead and tore it apart, & figured out the only issue I had was a physically broken element. I used two needle nose pliers and slightly straightened out the severed ends. Fired up the torch and welded the element back together. The tearing down and putting back together was a bit complicated, but you have open-face side wall elements, so if swapping them out is necessary, it will be an easy job.

You can do alot with refractory cement. Here's a link to some: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/chemicals-lubricants-cleaner/chemical/refractory-retort-cement-1-qt?utm_source=google_pr&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Chemicals-google_pr&infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CIG0tozU87QCFetDMgod9z4A3g

Good luck & have fun.

[misled youth]

Ups has bent many of us over many times...

Looks like can be patched, and should not cause troubles.
Sucks that it happened but trying to get money from USPS or ups, Fed ex is damn near impossible.

Let us know how it runs

[ROGUE]

Getting money from UPS is not hard. I made a claim at the local regional office and had a check in the mail 3 working days later. I show them a picture of the box before it was opened, a picture of how it was packaged and the damage to the item. They didn't argue or fight it at all.

USPS on the other hand. Forget it. Even if they decide it's their fault it will be 90 days before you see anything. However, they're are not going to admit fault. They lost a torch of mine in the mail recently and did damage to it in route. After all was said and done I ended up getting the torch like 45 days after it was originally sent. Well, one of the stipulations for a claim is that you have to make the claim no later than 28 from the original date of shipping.

Nice loophole huh?

As far as that kiln, I have seen people using that exact kiln, but in worse condition lol.

[WigWagScaliwag]

Hey guys thanks for the advice. Between emails last night and this morning he has decided that he is going to file the claim. Have 48 hours after delivery with UPS. Regretfully I didn't take picturesof the box though I still have all the packages/packaging material and the box it came in has a big "blow-out" on the one vertical corner. He is also going to be sending a patch kit similar to the one in H1JACK3R's link.

I plugged it in this morning and it kicked right on and started heating up immediately. Don't know how hot it's getting to though since it didn't come with any sort of guage. And I haven't gotten one yet. This is starting to become one of those "learning experiences" I was warned about.

[H1JACK3R]

You can grab a digital controller new on ebay for cheap. Though, unless you know how to install it, you might be better starting off with a standard pyrometer and keeping an eye on it..

How's the insurance claim going to work since you're just keeping the kiln? They just going to refund the shipping charge?

[LooseSeal Baller]

theres some good info on digital controller builds in the Flame On forum under kilns, pretty cheap and efficient option

also some good videos on youtube, just to show you how easy it really is. cost is around 100 dollars

[WigWagScaliwag]

Just got off the phone with UPS. It was getting close to the 48 hour deadline and hadn't heard back from him. Have to repackage the box the way it was packed and they are gonna pick it up tuesday to inspect it. Hope I can remeber what all exactly went in that box

[LooseSeal Baller]

sweet i hope it all works out. good luck. If you dont mind me asking how much did that set you back $?

[JBob]

While it sucks that it looks that way, it looks totally functional to me.

Patch it, be careful with it in the meantime. I would plug it in and see if it works.

that's how i feel. if it holds its heat, then good to go. fix it when u have the time, if u have the time now do eet!

[Aymie]

My f240 busted a coil, I replaced it and it split the brick that hold it in. It has a big crack in the roof that causes sagging. I propped the roof up with kiln shelf supports and pinned the coil back in with bits of the old broken coil. Ugly, lots of cracks, totally functional.

[menty666]

I feel like we should all start humming the MacGyver theme song.

[LooseSeal Baller]

45295

I'm always fixing shit my shop buddies like to call me macgyver and theres a picture of him at my station LOL not shitting you

[Aymie]

Growing up poor will teach you a thing or two. I make frit trays out of duct tape and Guinness draft cans.

Once you have your equipment, I have found its all fairly easy to maintain.

A kiln is the simplest to maintain, in my opinion. If you open it all up and look, it's very few parts. Power wire in to controller (if its analog it's a simple dial),wires to coil, coil. I have replaced all of the above and the only thing that was tricky was the friggin ball groove style element set up in my current kiln. I had a large top loader with a lid that was splitting in half. You get kiln patch to fill holes and large cracks, then cover wry thing in a few thin layers of kiln cement. It needs days to dry and cure before you fire it.

[LooseSeal Baller]

you nailed it there. Lol i'm broke45298

[menty666]

I'm totally for fixing before replacing. This country considers far too many things as "disposable" Even washing machines aren't made to go the distance any more. You'll pay 1100 for the machine that has a lifespan of 7 years (instead of 20-30), and 700-800 to fix it...or at that point just replace it.

It's sad.

We need to be more willing to take stuff apart and try to fix it when we can.

Ok, back off the soap box.

[LooseSeal Baller]

]Macgyver has great morals! and an awesome work ethic. great job!

I have pictured how Macgyver would blowglass, a candle, aerosol hairspray, and a pop bottle.

Lol thats all i got for now.

[Aymie]

Back on the soap box please!

We don't throw anything away around here. What I can't fix, James can.

My entire studio is built from reclaimed materials. People all around here are paying to haul off dead trees and I am using ours to build a hugelkultur garden. My shop stereo is 17 years old. My cold working shack will be built out of what fencing didn't burn in the fire, we saved it when the new one was built. I have bought every car but the last, broken, from someone who didn't want to bother fixing it. I have a $500 rule for buying cars. Same sort of rule applies to my studio equipment as far as paying full price. I bought my herbie with problems. Bought my kiln used from AGI.

It really pays in this business to be as self sufficient as possible. If you can maintain and repair everything in your studio, you are only a day or two away from working again when something goes down.

Part of why I am a big fan of Nortel and Paragon is that they encourage and instruct you to fix everything yourself. Jack Nortel himself will walk you through the complete disassembly of a red max rather than have you send it in. When I tore out chunks of the bottom of my microwave kiln, paragon rep told me how to work around it. It was a paragon rep who told me coil pins were made out if coil wire. It was videos on the paragon site that showed me how to change the coil in that god forsaken ball groove set up.

[menty666]

It's funny you mention that about Jack. I had him on the phone with me when I was going to send it in for a problem with my oxy valves. I love that about this industry :D

[WigWagScaliwag]

I've decided that I'm just going to fix it myself with a patch kit. Called UPS and had them cancel the insurance claim. Been trying to get my setup going and get melting glass for a long, long time and I'm not letting anything in my way anymore. Thanks to everybody for the advice and for encouraging me to fix it myself. I will try to take pictures as I go along and maybe I can give something back to the community. @Aymie: Got a Nortel Major w/ Premix Topfire so maybe I will get to learn the inner workings of that too :) Hopefully not too soon though.

[H1JACK3R]

Here's a link from the Paragon manuals online that should help you:

http://www.paragonweb.com/files/manuals/IM234_Firebrick_Repair.pdf

Hope this helps move things alone for you, I know how frustrating it is trying to get started. :chilling:

[Aymie]

That premix top fire is lovely. I miss my mine.

[Dan Kooper]

My f240 busted a coil, I replaced it and it split the brick that hold it in. It has a big crack in the roof that causes sagging. I propped the roof up with kiln shelf supports and pinned the coil back in with bits of the old broken coil. Ugly, lots of cracks, totally functional.

This just happened to my year old F420 kiln. Only thing is I didn't touch it. Opened the door and chunks were sitting on my work. Sux.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/dankshizzle/7FC62611-2855-4FF5-8D61-43EDB043C098-1324-000001F652FA37A3.jpg
It's cracked along the roof now.

[LooseSeal Baller]

should still work ok tho, right?

[Aymie]

Mine popped the next one to the left. It just makes it easier to put in a new coil. And mine didn't pop out while I was fixing it. It was a couple days later.

[Dan Kooper]

The crack is what scared me. And the spring keeps hanging down. Yes it works but less than a year after buying it NEW sux. I paid 1700$ for this thing and was very careful with it. Paragon is contacted and abr was very helpful.

[LooseSeal Baller]

The crack is what scared me. And the spring keeps hanging down. Yes it works but less than a year after buying it NEW sux. I paid 1700$ for this thing and was very careful with it. Paragon is contacted and abr was very helpful.

what did they say?

can you fasten the element back up?

[Dan Kooper]

They said send pics. So I did. Waiting now. It Just happened. I keep putting it back in but it keeps falling out. I just don't want it to keep cracking.

[Dan Kooper]

They are sending me cement and spring holders. I get to fix it. Maybe me and scalawag should get together one day. Have a kiln fixing day. Yay....:(

[LooseSeal Baller]

sweet good luck! i hope both of you keep us posted on progress fun to see stuff like this.

[Aymie]

Don't worry about the brick that fell out. I keep trying to post a pic of mine but it won't let me.

[Dan Kooper]

Yeah, I'm not putting them back in. Just sealing the cracks. I'm not worried how it looks. Just don't want it to erode more. Sux it's less than a year old and I have to do this though. 3-5 years I would understand. At a shop with 5 or more people working in it but its a single person that uses it 5 days a week since septemberish.
It is what it is. I have 3 paragons and this is my first problem. Just happend to be on my most expensive one.

[Dan Kooper]

And it's in a controlled environment. It never gets below 65* in my shop. No extreme temps. It's got a seperate furnace and keeps the 2500 square foot shop nice and comfortable.

[WigWagScaliwag]

I'm down for a kiln fixin' day for sure. They're not sending out the repair kit until next week though because of the cold weather and it might freeze the cement. 20 below with windchill up here last night!