Setting up a budget work space

[Simian]

I am just starting out and am looking for suggestions on how best to spend my money. I have about $700 to get started with. What would you buy starting from scratch?

I have someone here in town I can get some basic instruction but otherwise this is a self taught using the internet kind thing. I have done it before with working steel and carving projects so I know I am in for some challenges.

[Jiggy Boro]

I got every single i have for 1000 used on craigslist. Including a few tubes and enough color to last me for months. Minus a few reamers and graphite tools i bought shortly after. But I reccomend getting used stuff to start with. Or on Sun dance glass they have some pretty nifty starter kits.

[Simian]

I suppose I can buy on Ebay but locally there isn't anything like a used market for this kind of stuff. Kind of a bummer but if I can become modestly proficient it should be fun at the little festivals we have every week during the summer.

[Simian]

Is the Contemporary Lampworking book set worth the $140?

[Jiggy Boro]

Definatly not. i got it as a gift and I learned more fom youtube then I did all 3 books. I learned how to cut tubing, thats about it. Do not get them. Get a marble making book or a spoon making book. Something that actually has real tutorials. But keep looking on craigslist! you never know what you will find.

[H1JACK3R]

All three ? I think ABR can do all three for $120.

Save a bit of money that way, and you can order it when you order glass and save on shipping.

[maxtsunami]

The Contemporary Lampworking set I think is useful if you have no base knowledge of glass. I got volumes 1 and 2 after a couple months of working, and while there is definitely some quality information in it, I had already learned a lot of it just through trial and error. It will increase your learning curve, but you can get by without it. At least that's how I see it. Also you should probably specify exactly what you want to be making so people can suggest torch + glass + tools.

[MikeyMan]

I got a lot out of contemporary lampworking, BUT... I got it from the library (you gotta love Eugene) and I was already an experienced lamp worker. When you are starting from scratch, it probably is too broad (informationally speaking) to get you started. As for equipment, that is asked frequently here, and some searches might bring up the information you seek. For me, I think used tools are the best way to dive in. Torches come on ebay regularly and you can get one for $300-$500. (Redmax or similar) I am partial to a 2 stage torch, because of the range you can get out of it, but they are usually too expensive when you have a small budget. Getting a kiln for cheap is a little harder, but they do list on craigslist regularly. Just don't expect to find a front loader with a punty door for under $500. Graphite tools are easily made, rods are sold at welding shops and glass supply shops. You will mostlikly need to buy a set of claw grappers, tweezers and a paddle. Regulators, flashback arrestors, ventilation and hoses will cost at least $200. Again craigslist is your friend here. I don't trust used ebay regulators,I've had hit or miss results, but arrestors and hoses are fine.

In a pinch if you are not making large or thick pieces, you can use a tub of vermiculite instead of a kiln which gives it a place to cool down slowly. (optionally put the tub of vermiculite on a hotplate). (Also look up flame annealing.) But it's not a kiln and is best used as a stop-gap measure until you get one.

[Simian]

I got a lot out of contemporary lampworking, BUT... I got it from the library (you gotta love Eugene) and I was already an experienced lamp worker. When you are starting from scratch, it probably is too broad (informationally speaking) to get you started. As for equipment, that is asked frequently here, and some searches might bring up the information you seek. For me, I think used tools are the best way to dive in. Torches come on ebay regularly and you can get one for $300-$500. (Redmax or similar) I am partial to a 2 stage torch, because of the range you can get out of it, but they are usually too expensive when you have a small budget. Getting a kiln for cheap is a little harder, but they do list on craigslist regularly. Just don't expect to find a front loader with a punty door for under $500. Graphite tools are easily made, rods are sold at welding shops and glass supply shops. You will mostlikly need to buy a set of claw grappers, tweezers and a paddle. Regulators, flashback arrestors, ventilation and hoses will cost at least $200. Again craigslist is your friend here. I don't trust used ebay regulators,I've had hit or miss results, but arrestors and hoses are fine.

In a pinch if you are not making large or thick pieces, you can use a tub of vermiculite instead of a kiln which gives it a place to cool down slowly. (optionally put the tub of vermiculite on a hotplate). (Also look up flame annealing.) But it's not a kiln and is best used as a stop-gap measure until you get one.

Thanks!
How would you construct the hot plate set up for annealing? I imagine that a kiln is not in my immediate future.

Do pieces have to be annealed right off of the torch or could I feasibly finish pieces and let them cool then take them across town to a kiln and anneal them? With steel you can heat treat when you are done, is glass the same?

[May Fern]

What kind of glass do you plan on working with? That'll help us help you figure out what torch to start with. If you're looking at doing any boro, I'd go with an oxycon from the start. I know tanked oxy can be cheaper to start with, but having to refill your tank every week the costs add up. Granted some glass loves tanked oxy, but being new to it, an oxycon will get you off to a great start.
As for a kiln, definitely check Craigslist. You can put your glass in vermiculite or fiber blanket, then batch anneal if the kiln doesn't have a bead/punty door. If nothing else, you can probably find someone in your area w/a kiln ot do the batch annealing for you until you can afford a good kiln made for glass.
Tools, hit Harbor Freight for stainless steel tweezers, paddles, etc. Also check kitchen aisles for stainless steel stuff you can use for presses, pokes,mashers, etc. No, it's not ideal, but it's cheap and will get you started. When more $$ opens up, you can get the "real" tools. I still use a lot of stainless steel measuring spoons for presses.
One thing I wouldn't skimp on is some good graphite marvers. I've got a torch mounted one, a bench one, an a few w/handles. I also have some brass and aluminum ones, but a smooth ceramic tile works too.
There are ways to save $$ when it comes to starting up on a limited budget. Sometimes you just have to get creative in your thinking. Razor blades, a paring knife from the kitchen, ss ice tongs, needle nose pliers, etc all come in handy.

[maxtsunami]

Thanks!
How would you construct the hot plate set up for annealing? I imagine that a kiln is not in my immediate future.

Do pieces have to be annealed right off of the torch or could I feasibly finish pieces and let them cool then take them across town to a kiln and anneal them? With steel you can heat treat when you are done, is glass the same?

It depends on what you're making. I for one would not plan on that, because there will always be a certain percentage of pieces that crack once you're done with them and there's nothing you can do about that if you don't have a kiln. To spend all that energy and care making a piece just to have it crack is terrible for me, but if you plan on making prodo and you don't really care about each individual piece then that could work. Marbles I would not bench cool, and hollow work I would not bench cool, but beads and pendants you potentially could get away with it, as long as you accept that some will crack.

The hot plate thing isn't annealing, it's just a way to lessen the number of pieces that crack from cooling. Basically vermiculite holds heat really well, so the glass will have a somewhat regulated drop in temperature as compared to just bench cooling. The hot plate would maybe (slightly) lessen that slope of cooling, so what you'd basically do is plop a tub of vermiculite on a hotplate and just stick your glass in the tub. Make sure its a metal container though.

[Land's Glass]

I would recommend that you focus on building your studio first, before you get into buying tools. Unless you find to good of deals to pass up. I know just setting up my electrical was more than $500 alone. Then plus all other material, it adds up fast. Have you thought about where you are going to build your studio?

[menty666]

Flame annealing isn't really annealing.

Contemporary Lampworking is really good reference material.

In all honesty? If you're a rank beginner you might be better off splitting your funds between some classes and some bench rental time to see if you are any good at it and earn more money to buy equipment at that point. Far too many people start up shops based on a budget as opposed to a goal of learning to make ____. I can spend a thousand dollars on top of the line power tools, but it doesn't mean I can build a house from a book I bought off the rack at Home Depot, ya know?

If you're going to be working glass and trying to sell what you make you'll need some basics:

Eye protection ($135-300)
Ventilation: free-ish if you can scrounge a fan from an HVAC guy, you'll still need ducting. 100-200 otherwise
Safe work surface: ~100.00
Kiln: 600 for a low end front loader.
Torch: $150-7,000. (Redmax is about 450)
Glass: Up to you, but going through 200.00 worth of glass is easy to do.
Propane: 28.00 for a 20# tank
Oxygen: 150-400 for an oxy con (this will limit your torch options), 45 for a tank of Oxy (you won't get preferential pricing out of the gate). Expect to burn through a dozen or so of these while learning.

Bottom line? Glassworking ain't cheap.

You can go a little cheaper on some stuff if you're just making beads out of soft glass or recycling glass, but if you're here on the boro forum, you may not be leaning that way.

[Simian]

What kind of glass do you plan on working with? That'll help us help you figure out what torch to start with. If you're looking at doing any boro, I'd go with an oxycon from the start. I know tanked oxy can be cheaper to start with, but having to refill your tank every week the costs add up. Granted some glass loves tanked oxy, but being new to it, an oxycon will get you off to a great start.
As for a kiln, definitely check Craigslist. You can put your glass in vermiculite or fiber blanket, then batch anneal if the kiln doesn't have a bead/punty door. If nothing else, you can probably find someone in your area w/a kiln ot do the batch annealing for you until you can afford a good kiln made for glass.
Tools, hit Harbor Freight for stainless steel tweezers, paddles, etc. Also check kitchen aisles for stainless steel stuff you can use for presses, pokes,mashers, etc. No, it's not ideal, but it's cheap and will get you started. When more $$ opens up, you can get the "real" tools. I still use a lot of stainless steel measuring spoons for presses.
One thing I wouldn't skimp on is some good graphite marvers. I've got a torch mounted one, a bench one, an a few w/handles. I also have some brass and aluminum ones, but a smooth ceramic tile works too.
There are ways to save $$ when it comes to starting up on a limited budget. Sometimes you just have to get creative in your thinking. Razor blades, a paring knife from the kitchen, ss ice tongs, needle nose pliers, etc all come in handy.

Unless I am mistaken a Boro setup will allow me to be the most versatile. Correct? I want the most versatile setup I can possibly create.

Thanks for the cheapo guerilla ideas. The ceramic tile would probably be a good temporary work around. Many of the tools I have from carving will be useful at some point with glass. I guess I just need to figure out what torch to center the setup around.

I would prefer to avoid spending a bunch of cash on an Oxy tank but if that is truly what I need to get the core setup done one time I will do it. I am not terribly concerned about space or ventilation as both are plentiful. It will be very easy/cheap to ventilate the area I plan to work in.

[Simian]

Flame annealing isn't really annealing.

Contemporary Lampworking is really good reference material.

In all honesty? If you're a rank beginner you might be better off splitting your funds between some classes and some bench rental time to see if you are any good at it and earn more money to buy equipment at that point. Far too many people start up shops based on a budget as opposed to a goal of learning to make ____. I can spend a thousand dollars on top of the line power tools, but it doesn't mean I can build a house from a book I bought off the rack at Home Depot, ya know?

If you're going to be working glass and trying to sell what you make you'll need some basics:

Eye protection ($135-300)
Ventilation: free-ish if you can scrounge a fan from an HVAC guy, you'll still need ducting. 100-200 otherwise
Safe work surface: ~100.00
Kiln: 600 for a low end front loader.
Torch: $150-7,000. (Redmax is about 450)
Glass: Up to you, but going through 200.00 worth of glass is easy to do.
Propane: 28.00 for a 20# tank
Oxygen: 150-400 for an oxy con (this will limit your torch options), 45 for a tank of Oxy (you won't get preferential pricing out of the gate). Expect to burn through a dozen or so of these while learning.

Bottom line? Glassworking ain't cheap.

You can go a little cheaper on some stuff if you're just making beads out of soft glass or recycling glass, but if you're here on the boro forum, you may not be leaning that way.

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately for me I don't have anyone near me that does classes or has a ton of experience that would make the travel worth it. I an unfortunately relegated to my own trial and error + the intertubes. For better or worse this is the situation. I know I will have to build this work space over time I am just looking to do it right the first time so I can get the most out of my cash. Yes I will probably buy more upgraded stuff later on but I am also not planning on making a living on this. If I do get good enough that someone wants to buy my stuff I will count myself luck and be able to invest in better/more equipment. I never sold a knife/carving/rifle I produced and never cared if I did. It was just fun to do and I never had instructors for any of them.

If it takes a bit of time to accumulate all the right stuff that is fine. I built my 1st AR15 in 4 yrs one piece at a time. I am just a tad goal oriented. :)

Can you describe what you meant by safe work surface? I have access to many materials that are not flammable but what do you guys think is preferable? Would granite be a good choice? Metal plate?

[menty666]

Safe as in "not flammable"

We've seen a couple of people post pictures or video of their "dope workspace" where the torch isn't clamped or screwed down and it's on a piece of plywood.

You'd like to think it's obvious, but sadly... :)

[Simian]

Christ! Ok. I thought there was a preferable surface that the industry as a whole utilized.

How about paper mâché? Or steel wool for cushion on a bed of magnesium? :bangHead:

I have a buddy that can get me scrap granite from countertops for a song. Or I could have something fabricated out of heavy gauge steel to fit my worktable that is already built.

[notsure]

Here is a great start! saw this torch hoses and regulators surfing fort collins craigslist today....

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/art/3560698321.html

[Beast]

If 450 is too much to drop on a Redmax, I'd recommend a National 3A; kinda small, but they're versatile and get the job done quite well.

And when you outgrow it, you'll have a nice hand torch to accommodate your needs.

[maxtsunami]

Flame annealing isn't really annealing.

Contemporary Lampworking is really good reference material.

In all honesty? If you're a rank beginner you might be better off splitting your funds between some classes and some bench rental time to see if you are any good at it and earn more money to buy equipment at that point. Far too many people start up shops based on a budget as opposed to a goal of learning to make ____. I can spend a thousand dollars on top of the line power tools, but it doesn't mean I can build a house from a book I bought off the rack at Home Depot, ya know?

If you're going to be working glass and trying to sell what you make you'll need some basics:

Eye protection ($135-300)
Ventilation: free-ish if you can scrounge a fan from an HVAC guy, you'll still need ducting. 100-200 otherwise
Safe work surface: ~100.00
Kiln: 600 for a low end front loader.
Torch: $150-7,000. (Redmax is about 450)
Glass: Up to you, but going through 200.00 worth of glass is easy to do.
Propane: 28.00 for a 20# tank
Oxygen: 150-400 for an oxy con (this will limit your torch options), 45 for a tank of Oxy (you won't get preferential pricing out of the gate). Expect to burn through a dozen or so of these while learning.

Bottom line? Glassworking ain't cheap.

You can go a little cheaper on some stuff if you're just making beads out of soft glass or recycling glass, but if you're here on the boro forum, you may not be leaning that way.

you can get shade 3s for like $85.

you probably should look at more like $1500 to get started with a setup that will last you though, especially since there are ongoing costs like oxy, propane, and glass that you wont be able to cover by selling pieces at first. Sock away a couple hundred at least, so when you start getting the feel of it you won't just hit a roadblock in terms of funds.

[May Fern]

Any big box store will carry hearth boards, cement board covered with metal. Lowes has some for around $38. Buy 2, one for your work surface, one to attach (with spacers) ahead of your torch to keep the heat from starting any fires on the wall. They're not smooth, but smooth enough for a cheap, heat resistant work surface. Screw it down to your work bench, then once you get your torch, you can drill some holes and screw your torch down to keep things from shifting.
.
I worked on a Hot Head for about 10 years, then bought a Bobcat and an M15 from UO2. Recently I upgraded to a Lynx an ordered an M20 from the same. Hoping to get my M20 the end of the week so I can quit having to buy O2 from my little friend. ;) The Bobcat served me well for 2 years before I saw a Lynx in action and immediately had torch envy. The Bobcat does fine w/small boro and is great for soft glass. If I had to do it over I wouldn't any smaller than a Bobcat to start. I imagine it will only be a matter of time before I want more heat than the Lynx can give me. lmao

With the new work bench, I just laid 12x12 tiles down, drilled holes for the torches, screwed through the tiles and into the wood bench underneath. I did add a "lip" around the edge of the table to prevent the tiles from slipping and it corals the dropped slippery hot bits of glass that are dropped to keep them from landing on the floor. The "lip" is just parts of an old aluminum storm door frame that I bought at the Habitat for Humanity shop, got it for a buck. :) Got the tiles there too for $6.00. You can see pics here. Someday I'll finish tiling the bench but we were in a hurry to play with fire so excuse the mess along the back. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151400464426488.532430.130037226487&type=3

Definitely get good eye protection!

[Simian]

Here is a great start! saw this torch hoses and regulators surfing fort collins craigslist today....

http://fortcollins.craigslist.org/art/3560698321.html

Thanks! I sent them an email but they are 400 miles away. If they won't ship it won't be an option.

[Simian]

May,

Thanks for the pics it really helped me see how it should all lay out. I dig the floor tile solution.

[Simian]

you can get shade 3s for like $85.

you probably should look at more like $1500 to get started with a setup that will last you though, especially since there are ongoing costs like oxy, propane, and glass that you wont be able to cover by selling pieces at first. Sock away a couple hundred at least, so when you start getting the feel of it you won't just hit a roadblock in terms of funds.

A good point. Perhaps I will get the torch now and work on the table surface and ventilation since those will be cheap and all the work will be done by me. By the time that is done I will be able to purchase a few more components.

[H1JACK3R]

Here's a link to some good cheap glasses, $65 + shipping(maybe 10 bucks?): http://www.waleapparatus.com/catalog.asp?prodid=677175&showprevnext=1

Here's a link to a cheap set of regulators, $83 shipped: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oxygen-Acetylene-Regulator-Set-Cutting-Welding-OR-20-AR-20-Gas-Regulators-/230781465173?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35bba5b255

Here's a link to a great starter kiln, $620 shipped: http://www.clay-king.com/kilns/paragon_kilns/paragon_bluebird.html

GLDG Member, Misled Youth has a GTT Bobcat for sale he was asking $150.

GLDG Member, Bulletproof can sell you a small marvering slab and a couple rods for $30ish

Cheap tongs $7: http://www.amazon.com/Good-Cook-Classic-10-Inch-Deluxe/dp/B000BPBT7M/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1358826747&sr=8-3&keywords=kitchen+tongs

Call around to local HVAC places, find a free Squirrel cage fan, also known as a Furnace fan. Make sure to specify your preferred voltage. You should be able to get this for free.

ABR (http://www.dichroicimagery.com/) is always having sales, order clear (25mm heavy, and 9mm standard tubing, 10mm and 5mm rod) , and a Borostix sampler. (You should be able to do this for around $140 shipped, not cases, but enough to get started)

Build your table from scratch, materials for a single person bench should be less than $60.

Look on craigslist for a used oxygen concentrator, try to pay no more than $200. It won't power your Bobcat to 100%, but it will do.

Total set up cost less than $1500 (didn't add it all up), and that's just a very basic set up.



Hope this helps.

[Simian]

GLDG?

What is a Squirrel Cage fan and why would it be free?

[H1JACK3R]

also known as a Furnace fan. Make sure to specify your preferred voltage. You should be able to get this for free.

They take them out of furnaces.

[H1JACK3R]

GLDG?

I'll leave that one to you.

[notsure]

Thanks! I sent them an email but they are 400 miles away. If they won't ship it won't be an option.

oops, for some reason I was thinking Durango is Glenwood springs. my bad.. might check this torch out anyway cause it's near my neighborhood.

[Simian]

They take them out of furnaces.

Gotcha. Thanks for the link on the glasses.


I'll leave that one to you.

:D


oops, for some reason I was thinking Durango is Glenwood springs. my bad.. might check this torch out anyway cause it's near my neighborhood.

Nice. The disc golf course at CMC was the first one I ever played in like '98.

[hellawacked]

I just spent 1500 (most likely more) on my setup and I still don't have everything. Plan a concentrator into the equation lugging tanks is annoying and its expensive.
Without a kiln expect things to break and plan for that disappointment accordingly. Everything I've made has been bench cooled without vermiculite. Out of the things that broke after inspecting I usually find either a hidden bubble or it'd be because that was the last spot I heated. Make sure to bathe whatever your making in the flame before cooling. it's trial and error but sooner or later you'll figure it out. Use marble techs for pendants instead (their thinner and break less). Insects and other small critters are fun to make and aren't to prone to cracking.
If you buy a small torch don't expect to be melting in colors to easily my friend runs his minor and has his brother use mapp gas at the same time and it still takes him awhile. After using my cheetah he regrets getting a minor. If your serious about it you should save for a lynx or bigger.
Also if you havent seen it
http://www.talkglass.com/forum/showthread.php?19349-200-dollar-kiln-project!&highlight=200+kiln
You sound pretty handy might be worth it. It really sucks not having a kiln.(taxes cant come any sooner)

[Simian]

Thanks for the input man. It definitely seems like the torch and the kiln should be the best I can possibly afford.

[May Fern]

Get the biggest kiln with a digital controller that you can afford. A kiln w/an infinite switch is fine, needle pyrometers suck though so upgrading to a digital pyrometer is at least better. You can add a digital controller later but it's gonna cost you a lot more $$. The best is getting one w/the digital controller already built on to it.

[Simian]

Is there a brand that is known to be high quality but won't be the most expensive? Is a front loading unit preferable too a top loading model?

[LooseSeal Baller]

Get the biggest kiln with a digital controller that you can afford. A kiln w/an infinite switch is fine, needle pyrometers suck though so upgrading to a digital pyrometer is at least better. You can add a digital controller later but it's gonna cost you a lot more $$. The best is getting one w/the digital controller already built on to it.

if you really want to save you should build your own there is tons of info on here and google, you can build your own digital controller for around 100$, and theres a thread on how to build a 200$ kiln and that includes the digital control.

use the money to buy a decent torch if your serious about blowing i would get a phantom at least, but if your not then get a lynx, that way if you decide to go bigger after that you'll already be able to use the triple mix setup. not that you have to go with gtt, there are plenty of good torches out there but i like the gtt's my self.

when i decided to buy a torch i was already sure that blowing glass was for me, so i sold one of my cars to buy my mirage and still think this was one of the best decisions i've made. it has made me alot of money compared to the 74' Vw the just ate the cash.

[maxtsunami]

Front loader is better since you don't have to singe your hands when you drop pieces into the kiln, + you don't actually have to drop them you can slide them in the front. Also most front loaders have built in punty doors while most top loaders do not.

[Simian]

Glasses enroute.

Might have a line on a used Nortel Minor for $120.

[TlkQ]

^Don't. Get atleast a major/minor or a redmax. You'll grow out of a minor in like a month max.

[Simian]

Fair enough.

What about a GTT Bobcat or should I aim higher?

[TlkQ]

If the torch you bought retails for less than $400 you'll probably grow out of it quickly. Especially if you intend on making pipes. The lynx is the only smaller torch I'd reccomend. The triple mix makes it way hotter than other torches that size.

[RioGlass]

We worked on a cricket and minor for a long time. Don't be fooled minor is an awesome little workhorse. I always like gtt's for oxy savings.

If I had to do it all over again I prob would have liked to started with the major but I'm not a big fan of the square head. Love my redmax though.

[Simian]

I imagine I will be working on beads (my wife beads) and Disc Golf mini's in the beginning (3"mini disc). I definitely want to work on larger stuff in the future but in the beginning I think the goal is to master these two things.

[STROKER]

Definatly not. i got it as a gift and I learned more fom youtube then I did all 3 books. I learned how to cut tubing, thats about it. Do not get them. Get a marble making book or a spoon making book. Something that actually has real tutorials. But keep looking on craigslist! you never know what you will find.

you have given some of the worst advice ever!

just because you were too dense to get anything out of the best books geared toward lampworking doesnt mean you should shun them.
try reading them again and pay attention this time.

sure youtube is great but the books are the lampworkers bible and all newbies should be required to own them.

[Simian]

you have given some of the worst advice ever!

just because you were too dense to get anything out of the best books geared toward lampworking doesnt mean you should shun them.
try reading them again and pay attention this time.

sure youtube is great but the books are the lampworkers bible and all newbies should be required to own them.

LOL. I think I read enough posts and review about these books that it was clear they would be a great resource for my education.

Ordered and on the way! All 3 Volumes. Stoked!

Now the tax man needs to bring me more glass gear cash.

[AmberD]

Def plan to spend a lot of $$ getting set up as time goes. It all really adds up. I'm about 8 months in and so far I think I've thrown down $5000 and my shop is faaaar from complete. I'll probably spend at least another 5000 before Im semi-happy with my set up. And I have yet to make much of anything I consider sellable aside from some $2 beads. Getting damn close, but still having to fund it through other sources. Its a serious commitment, so be sure its what you want to do! Being a glassblower is fun, but it's not easy. It's serious work! When I first started, I spent about 1000 and thought I'd be set for awhile. WRONG! The growth of my skill was quickly stunted by my lack of proper tools, and limitation of heat my torch would produce. Just be ready! :)

[Simian]

I am assuming this is a project that will take me more than a couple years.

[TlkQ]

There is no way in hell you're going to be able to spin a 3" disc on a minor. Well, not with out a SHITLOAD of time and patience. Shit, that'd be tough on the redmax.

[Simian]

What size torch would make that a less labor intensive process?

[AmberD]

I was thinking the same thing. A national 8m might do it. Use the 5 or 7 port for beads and the 21 for discs?

[AmberD]

Or maybe a cheetah?

[TlkQ]

The cheapest, biggest flame you can get is the major minor. The redmax is a slightly hotter, more directed big flame. Scorpions are pretty ballsy, but you're getting up in price then.

Cheetah wouldn't be a bad idea at all

[Simian]

Thanks for the great suggestions guys!!!

[Dave Umbs]

I'm not trying to be mean when i say this but, Honestly id spend the next few days reading and studying as much as you can on this forum before you buy anything else. From what has been posted by you already i just feel you don't even know the basics on getting setup and what your getting into with glass.

If possible id also try and get lessons for at least a week or a part time apprenticeship if that is possible to make sure that this is what you want to do before you drop a ton of cash.
I know you said their is no one close but, having someone teach you the basics is pretty critical for doing the most simple projects in glass and will get you WAY farther along vs just trying to teach yourself, using the internet and books.

You are in CO they're a lot of glassblowers and Glasscraft is there you should be able to find someone to teach you for cash. No matter how many goals or how motivated you are if you cant heat glass so it has an even heat base or keep your puntys straight when working, or even know how to run your torch correctly (people destroy GTTs all the time) motivation is not gonna matter if your doing basic stuff wrong.

Like its been said nothing about glass is cheap and even a basic setup is gonna run a few Gs to do it right. You can halfass it and do it on a budget but you will be just hurting yourself in the long run if your serious about this; You will end up spending more cash replacing things that could have been solved from the start.

Its gonna take a minimum of 1500-3000 dollars to get set up with a basic setup. That is even if you do all the work on your own and get free stuff this is not a cheap hobby. Plus reoccurring monthly bills, Oxygen, propane, rent, electric and raw glass that is at least 500-1000 a month right there depending on how much you work and where you live.
Shit even just buying a torch isnt just the cost of the torch, you need hoses, flashback arresters, regulators and possibly y splitters depending on the torch plus your gas on oxy.

Lots of good info has been posted already in this thread and there is tons on this forum so take advantage of it; dont just jump into this blind

[Shattered Dreams]

Im looking to get started blowing glass too.

ive got 2000 saved and have been holding off getting anything until i have another 1000-2000, because i know im going to need it.
I asked for advice here on a torch and i got a lot of recommendations for the lynx.
should be good to make small to medium sized peices, and learning the flame of the lynx will help if you step up to the 2 stage torches.
arrow springs has a lynx kit that comes with 12.5' hose, oxy regulator, a graphite pad and a lighter for 536, or 640 if you want the propane regulator too( or cheaper if you get the import regulators).
ive been looking at kilns, and i think it is abr has a bluebird xl on sale for 690 plus shipping, or clay king has it 780 shipped.
glass sorbet has an m-20 oxy con for 475 plus shipping, i think it should supply the lynx fairly well right?
flashback arrestors can be found for 60 a set or maybe with quick connects for 90.

sundance art glass has green ace ir shade 3 lens glasses for 85, i think this is what is needed. wale apparatus has some for 65 and 85 also.

these are the basic important stuff you may need, and at 536 for torch kit, 800 for kiln, 550 for oxycon, and flashbacks and glasses, im already a little over my 2000 budget,
and i wouldnt have any hand tools or glass yet. theres another 1000-1500 easy. marvers, picks, claw grabbers, mashers, reamers, pushes, shears
then you need to build your studio with proper ventilation.
its really looking like 4000 is a good minimum to really get into it.

if anyone has any advice on how to do it cheaper im all ears, or better recommendations then the stuff i found.
every dollar saved at this point can really help.

find things on sale. or used would help a lot.

[May Fern]

Check http://www.unlimitedoxygen.com/ for the M20. Jack is excellent to deal with and they support their products for life. They recently rebuilt my compressor for free, UPS damaged it on return shipping and they're doing everything in their power to get me back up and running as fast as they can. I had to send it back last Friday, it's already on it's way home. Can't beat that with a stick. MY M20 should be here next week.
Wherever you get your oxycon from, remember to save the shipping boxes just in case you ever need to send it in for service.
As far as the "kits" or packaged deals, price everything out individually, it might save you some $$. 104 seems a bit pricey for a propane regulator. I've dealt w/Arrow Springs in the past too and I do like the customer support they've given me on my kilns and controllers.
If you're running an oxycon, you won't need an oxy regulator. You'll need one if you're running on tanked O2.
If you're going for welding glasses, check a local welding shop, I'm willing to bet you can find them cheaper there. I think I paid $12 for my shade #5's.

[H1JACK3R]

If you're going for welding glasses, check a local welding shop, I'm willing to bet you can find them cheaper there. I think I paid $12 for my shade #5's.

Are you suggesting this as an alternative to shaded didymium lenses?

[Shattered Dreams]

I was under the impression those glasses were like didymiums plus shade 3, not just shade 3 glasses.
if im wrong please let me know.

but i somehow doubt $12 shade 5 welding glasses would be acceptable for glassblowing.
if so, why would there even be a market for the expensive glasses?

on a side note, how dark is shade #5?
i was thinking of getting the shade 3 so i can still see a little, and it offers the needed protection still.
i thought maybe the shade 5 would be too dark to see much of what im doing.

[TlkQ]

They are dark as fuck. You can't see shit out of 5's without a bright ass torch in your face. And yea, those welding shades don't have the dids. It won't key out the sodium flare and it'll look all yellow and shit.

[Action Glass]

Your wrong. Stop blowing before you start loosing your eyesight. Didymium lenses are needed well before the shade. It sounds like you have no clue. Pay attention to what people have to say on here. Maybe you should back track into the health and safety section of the forum.

[May Fern]

I only use my shade 5's for when I'm combing glass in a kiln. They're way too dark to use on the torch.
Here's a link that might be helpful for the noobs. http://www.glassfacts.info/indexf1d0.html?fid=208

[AmberD]

I like to use Phillips didys with shade 3 clips ons. You could post a wanted ad for used ones to get some a little cheaper. Thats what I did and I got a great deal. They aren't the most attractive things ever, but hell, Im blowing glass which overrides the dorky glasses with cool factor. ;) I can't see a damn thing out of shade 5's either.

[menty666]

I'd need to go dig up my invoice from when I ordered them, but I'm pretty sure I use 5's. I just put more light on the bench to counter it.

I have blue eyes though, they're more sensitive than some other eye colors like brown.

You can make a temporary pair of claw grabbers, tweezers are cheap from harbor freight, and I like cheap butter knives from the good will store for shaping. I have one clamped to my torch to use as a necking tool. (use the straight back of it).

You do need the didy filter to cut the sodium flare, shade three clip ons will work over those, but keep in mind the warning we used to get, the plastic they're made from will fade over time, so you'll need to replace them.

Carlo Donna shears are nice to have, but a cheap pair of poultry shears will work well enough while starting out.

Search on here, there are lots of cheap tool ideas.

Look for tools that can 'two-fer' for you. I have a really nice infinity rim marble mold, but I also have a cheaper one I got from ABR that has three marble cavities on one side and serves as a marver on the other.

Hit up your dentist to ask about saving out worn down dental tools for you.

[AmberD]

They fade out? As in the lenses? Scary! How long does that take to happen?

[menty666]

About 6 months if I recall. Search on here, it's buried around here somewhere when the guy who made them was still a member. It was a problem with the clip ons, not the regular lenses.

[AmberD]

Hm, interesting. Do boroscopes have a didy filter in them?

[Simian]

Thank for the info once again guys.

I have the books on the way and some glasses. Going to go sit in for a few hours with the only guy that I can find within 100 miles next week.

Sorry to disappoint those of you that are intent on telling me I need to take classes. Not gonna happen unless I move to where they have them or I suddenly come into a shit load of travel money.

[AmberD]

I understand on the lessons thing. There isn't anyone for several hundred miles from me, so I'm getting by on DVDs, books and the net for now. I am planning to try to take lessons a couple times a year when my funds open up a little more. You can do it without, the basics just come a lot slower.

[menty666]

I'm surprised folks haven't starting doing lessons over skype. Seems like a way to make a few bucks without the hassles of travelling or revealing the location of your lair.

It's not a lesson opportunity so to speak, but there are occasionally blowers on stickcam and the like that leave a camera running for anyone who wants to watch. Might be worth tuning in.

[Simian]

Yeah, I don't mind a more challenging path. I am not setting up a company. I am challenging myself to learn something new. I have done it before with very complex things. I just take the principles that served me well when I was in a doctoral program and obsessively apply them to the thing I want to learn. Some people can't grasp learning and challenging yourself for the sake of the challenge. It frustrates them that you won't do it their way or that you don't somehow respect the path they have taken.

If I have to reinvent the wheel it will at least be my wheel.

[Simian]

That is a bad ass idea. instead of a cam whore a cam blower. Hell you pay an access fee and can ask technical question. Whoever is working on cam can just talk while us viewers watch. Might be some good side cash for someone with an academic way about them.

[Action Glass]

I am not a web guy. I learn near nothing from the pot. Personal experiences is what lack this day and age. Some people dont hear clear till its given straight to thier face. I like that and miss that sort of interaction since i sell mostly without a face to chat with.

[Action Glass]

Ohh like an adult show well then.....i am down pay me your money and ill show you the tech of the glory hole. :dieslaugh

[Action Glass]

No but really you can call me we can throw on skype. Im always down to answer questions.

[Simian]

Thanks man. I appreciate that. Hopefully I will have a complete setup in the next few months, minus the kiln. Kiln by summer, unless I win the football pool at work.

[Shattered Dreams]

so what kind of glasses did you end up ordering?

[Simian]

B3's
http://www.waleapparatus.com/catalog.asp?prodid=677177&showprevnext=1

[somewhere]

B3's
http://www.waleapparatus.com/catalog.asp?prodid=677177&showprevnext=1

These are a great start. These are made by noir and are a polycarbonate. The filter is not dyed but impeded in the poly. Noir says these will never fade.

Btw no one has ever proven any of the welding shades fade over time. I understand this is logical thinking but still no evidence to support this as far as I know.

[somewhere]

Your wrong. Stop blowing before you start loosing your eyesight. Didymium lenses are needed well before the shade. It sounds like you have no clue. Pay attention to what people have to say on here. Maybe you should back track into the health and safety section of the forum.

Sorry action glass this is not correct.

In fact didymium filters out nothing except sodium flare which has no damaging properties. Glass is inherently a good uv filter but does little for ir. didymium filters neither.

[Simian]

These are a great start. These are made by noir and are a polycarbonate. The filter is not dyed but impeded in the poly. Noir says these will never fade.

Btw no one has ever proven any of the welding shades fade over time. I understand this is logical thinking but still no evidence to support this as far as I know.


Yeah I figured they would be a good starting point and if I really hated them or they got worn out or broken I could just upgrade later. I am also a fan of not paying more just because some people think more expensive is more gooder. :)

[LooseSeal Baller]

I love the B'3 from wale. I learned with split lense googles and i like the B'3 alot better. I was always peeking through the top half of the split lenses and it was hard for my eyes to focus. the none split lenses work much better for me.

[yoloswag420]

Wale will get them in shade 5 for you at no extra cost, just call.

[yoloswag420]

I also have a 20% off coupon to Phillips Ill give if anyone wants it, pm me

[Simian]

I think I may have just figured out how to fund this venture fully in the next month. Fingers crossed.

[Ovid]

That is a bad ass idea. instead of a cam whore a cam blower. Hell you pay an access fee and can ask technical question. Whoever is working on cam can just talk while us viewers watch. Might be some good side cash for someone with an academic way about them.
I just had to chime in on this, there is actually a cam whore that is a cam blower. Watched her blow glass nude before, easily in the top 10 things I have seen on the interwebs.


I think I may have just figured out how to fund this venture fully in the next month. Fingers crossed.
Congrats dude, I hope it comes though. Been thinking about getting started myself. Gonna shell out for some lessons at The Heat Base in VA to see if it strikes me fancy first though. If I fall in love (I know that I will) who knows what will happen.

[TlkQ]

^YOu can't drop a knowledge bomb like that with no clue on how to find her. I'm sure her sessions got recorded. I'm 99% sure we all would like to see that! haha

[H1JACK3R]

^^Indeed.

[Dave Umbs]

Thank for the info once again guys.

I have the books on the way and some glasses. Going to go sit in for a few hours with the only guy that I can find within 100 miles next week.

Sorry to disappoint those of you that are intent on telling me I need to take classes. Not gonna happen unless I move to where they have them or I suddenly come into a shit load of travel money.

My intent was to give you a honest opinion, you should always do what you think is best and what your heart desires. I'm not disappointed; I do hope the best for you in your journey with glass though.


Yeah, I don't mind a more challenging path. I am not setting up a company. I am challenging myself to learn something new. I have done it before with very complex things. I just take the principles that served me well when I was in a doctoral program and obsessively apply them to the thing I want to learn. Some people can't grasp learning and challenging yourself for the sake of the challenge. It frustrates them that you won't do it their way or that you don't somehow respect the path they have taken.

If I have to reinvent the wheel it will at least be my wheel.

I like what you said there. I was just thinking since you said you were motivated that you might be motivated enough to go learn the basics in my first post. If you can't financially, its to hard, or don't want to that is fine. I just feel there are some basic things everyone should learn, that effect everything you do with glass.

I actually like it so much that I'm gonna twist your words around a bit to fit myself.
I feel being a full time glass artist is a challenging path i suppose. I see this as an art and myself as an artist i try to do better work with every piece i make. I feel as if i have made some very complex pieces with glass and done complex things in my life too so maybe we are more similar then you think. I see glass every day as a challenge and that there will always be something new to learn since its always evolving and people are always having new ideas.
Through learning the basic principals of blowing glass by getting lessons. I was able to apply what I learned on my own to learn and solve harder techniques. From there I was able to challenge myself to make larger work and learn even harder things for the sake of a challenge. I get frustrated when a piece breaks so i either fix it or make another. I respect people that give respect and are honest and that have more experience then me and show respect.

Id like to learn how to run a 220 electric line or fly a plane, but i'm not just gonna try and do it myself, ill get someone to show me first then ill try.
Your acting like getting a glassblowing lesson is not challenging yourself, which is just funny to me since you haven't even blown glass and don't know how challenging it is at first. Glass blowing is always going to be challenging if you apply yourself and keep an open mind; as is anything in life if you keep trying and pushing yourself to do better you probably will.

Do whatever your heart desires and I will respect that like I said I'm just giving my opinions and you don't have to read or follow them its cool.
I won't bother you anymore with my opinions though so best of luck.

Id also like to see the cam girl video too.

[Simian]

No, I am acting like I don't have the time to go travel to get lessons and so I am making due with the hand I was dealt. I work, have a kid, I am working on an MBA, I play professional disc golf and I shoot. I taught myself to work steel and forge knives. No lessons. All internet and books. I am not scared of being shitty at something until I am not. I am a self taught Chef and was so professionally for years. Lessons would be great if someone would like to fly in and give them to me but unfortunately my local resources blow, or rather don't.

[Ovid]

Sorry I got distracted. Had to go grab a new rig, basic production SG Recycler but I like it a lot. Small, clean, and classy.

Anyway, I'll look for her exact name but she is a model on MFC. If it's cool to link adult content I'll post a link but I would imagine that's a big nono?

Edit:
Found her. Not posting a link unless I get the go ahead. But this is some of her work. She sells them for the websites currency, tokens LOL. I like this girl.

45456

[TlkQ]

You should totally private message me that link.

[H1JACK3R]

...

[Action Glass]

Me too!

[Ovid]

Before anyone gets too excited, I don't actually have a video. I just found out what her name was, but who knows where that will take you. Her name is Bambi Kush.

[H1JACK3R]

....

[Herbie]

Wow, haha her twitter is hilarious. Off topic as hell I know but she definitely does blow glass

[Simian]

Wow, haha her twitter is hilarious. Off topic as hell I know but she definitely does blow glass

Hardly off topic. Cam whores are never off topic.

[Action Glass]

Yeah i got bored quick. Blowing glass is much more exciting. Loosing my sex drive? Either getting old or its the fumes....

[H1JACK3R]

Yeah, it was better in theory than it was in practice.

[Simian]

Then I will abstain. Good lookin out.

[H1JACK3R]

It's probably worth checking out, if you're into that kind of thing :chilling:

[Simian]

you mean naked girls doing stuff. yup. i dig it.

[Action Glass]

Back on subject. A screen is nice on a work bunch to watch tutorials and such. Make sure you have one. I have a hard time watching things on the interweb. A subscription to flow is def my porn. I wish they were monthly.

[Simian]

Back on subject. A screen is nice on a work bunch to watch tutorials and such. Make sure you have one. I have a hard time watching things on the interweb. A subscription to flow is def my porn. I wish they were monthly.

Flow?

I have a laptop and wifi in my shop area. GTG!

[menty666]

Flow?

I have a laptop and wifi in my shop area. GTG!

https://www.theflowmagazine.com/

[Simian]

Thanks! Subscription, check! Looks like an awesome source of information.

[Simian]

Glasses. Arrived.
Contemporary Lampworking Vols I, II, III. En Route.
Looking at the Paragon SC2 for my kiln.

Not entirely sure which torch to settle on since so many people have differing opinions. I think I need something that I can comfortably work a 2" marble on. If I need anything bigger I will just have to work that out later on. Any specific models that you guys would personally use to do that size work? I was looking at the Bethlehem Bravo or the Carlisle Hellcat since I could "grow into them". Are there other quality alternatives that are less expensive?

[H1JACK3R]

Yeah, you could find a used CC

[Simian]

But for the size work I am going to be doing would I be better served to get something less expensive that will be just as effective?

[TlkQ]

Used CC is the hottest for the price. Redmax is cheaper, with a same size flame, but not as hot.

[Simian]

Ok, so if I was going to go around the $500 range what would be the preferred model?

[TlkQ]

Exactly what I said haha. Redmax is like 350-450 CC is like 650-750.

[Simian]

LOL, gotcha. I am trying to avoid significantly diminishing returns.

[TlkQ]

A major minor is an even less hot redmax and can be found even cheaper. I ran on a redmax for a year or so. It made me thousands of dollars, but man I hated that torch haha.

The important thing is, if I were in the same situation, I'd still get the redmax. The only other torch I considered was a lynx, and I'm like 85% sure I'm glad I went with the redmax

[Simian]

Why do you say that?

[TlkQ]

I've worked on a standalone lynx since then. I can go bigger on the max than I can on a standalone lynx.

I guess since I've filled the spoon and started headed towards your mouth, I might as well finish the job haha ;-)

The lynx is a hotter, but narrow flame. It can get down to a laser ass tiny hot as fuck flame and is super gentle on colors.

The redmax comes in either premix or surface mix rider. Premix can get down tiny depending on the tip, but rapes colors. You also need to switch tips if you want to go from a tiny to a medium sized flame. Surface mix cannot get tiny and hot, but you can go from small to medium/large without changing tips, and it doesn't rape colors.

Take what you will from that.

[Simian]

I am just glad that there are not many choices or factors to consider. :)

Stoked that there are so many folks with good info to help muddle through the green zone.

[gambitglass]

If your still looking for the SC-3 I have one with the digital controller, bead door, and rod rest that I may be willing to part with. Everything works perfect, with little visible wear and tear. great economic kiln for making pendants, marbles, small sculpted stuff and spoons and chillums.

When you get into making multi-sectioned work not having a guillotine door will be a pain in the butt, thats the drawback I have with it right now.

PM me if you want to make me an offer. Otherwise it may go on ebay in a couple days

[TlkQ]

No way man. I have the same kiln. Big stuff is no problem. Drop it in through the top and feed the blowtube through the side door with tweezers. It's obviously not as simple as sticking int in a guillotine kiln, but it's certainly not stopping me from making big stuff.

[Simian]

If your still looking for the SC-3 I have one with the digital controller, bead door, and rod rest that I may be willing to part with. Everything works perfect, with little visible wear and tear. great economic kiln for making pendants, marbles, small sculpted stuff and spoons and chillums.

When you get into making multi-sectioned work not having a guillotine door will be a pain in the butt, thats the drawback I have with it right now.

PM me if you want to make me an offer. Otherwise it may go on ebay in a couple days

Can you pm me some pics or post them here?

Also what model is it? Digital?

[gambitglass]

No way man. I have the same kiln. Big stuff is no problem. Drop it in through the top and feed the blowtube through the side door with tweezers. It's obviously not as simple as sticking int in a guillotine kiln, but it's certainly not stopping me from making big stuff.

I've made bigger pieces with this too. You are kind of limited to one at a time. I'm not sure what you mean by drop it though the top because my kiln has a ceiling and the only opening in the top is like an 1.5" circhle for the ceramic vent plug. Anyways it can be done but you have to swing the whole door open and feed your blowtube through the punty door. If you have a lot of wierd bridging attached to your piece they can sometimes pop off in the process.

[gambitglass]

Simian,

This is it basically

http://www.paragonweb.com/files/kilns/SC3_DrV1W1.jpg

Mine has a couple stickers on it and has a metal rod rest that attaches in front of the bead door.

I'll PM you an offer that will save you some money from the cheapest price I can find online new.

Cheapest I've seen is here at clay king

http://www.clay-king.com/kilns/paragon_kilns/paragon_sc3.html?gclid=CJmQtNeEjrUCFUKd4AodKxIAAA

$707.88 new and delivered.

[Simian]

Cool looking forward to it.

[gambitglass]

I sent you the PM. You should see up at the top of the page where it says "notifications"

[Simian]

Answered. Sorry, normally there is a prompt when I get a new notification.

[Simian]

I think I am leaning toward a GTT Cheetah. Thoughts? Arguments for or against?

[Action Glass]

Dude that is tiny! Do whatever though.i fell in love on a national hand torch.

[Simian]

Apparently a bunch of people feel it is sufficient for working up to 2-3" marbles.

[Action Glass]

Wow! Good luck! I would drain a k tank making a fully worked marble on a lynx...

[Simian]

First I said cheetah.
Second, any chance of you elaborating in a reasonable manner why you dislike the torch?

[Action Glass]

Sorry thinking of a different board. Your monkey face is all over. Lol. Its just small. I dont dislike it, it just depends on what you want to do with it. If you have any determination youll grow out of it fast. I dont know your budget so i couldnt say what you need. I could make bubs on a national 6b back in the day. It took a while, still did it. I just realized my consumption of fuel was alot higher cause it took forever to make anything. Start slow. Do whatever you want. As i reflect i realize it was good. I moved from my national to nortel in two months though.

[funksizzle]

I think he's just saying it's a smaller torch. You see that's between lynx and phantom. With a phantom you get a lynx and outer fire, and large ranges of betweens.

Sure man, you know, you could probably do 2-3 inch marbles on a hothead too! Do you got about two days, and you'll probably need a pizza or two delivered to your torch to get you through.

Hot, Hot, Hot, work it hot. Any color that doesn't react well too heat won't be used by funksizzle, except dichro. Dichro is the only thing I'll slow down for.

Even applying stringers etc, scrapping, quenching, anything has got to be hot.

So I'll heat up rods in with outerflames hot, then kick down to apply. Heat up with outers to get base, kick down to clean up ends, etc...

Even cleaning your rods while working cool, kick it up to heat it, quench. Takes 4 times longer on lnyx centerfire.

Heat pays off quick. The other thing is keeping a heat base in whatever you are working on, when you work hot you never have to keep waiting. For instance, say your making some cane right? If you make it hot, pull it after skin forms, clip it and use if fresh, it;s gonna go on like butter with a little preheating. If you work it colder, your still gonna have to keep warming it up etcc...

And once you got stuff hot, you gotta keep it hot or you'll have problems. For instance, working hot, almost glowing orange/slight glow even heating the whole piece in the centerfire will cool it down from the temp it was at.



The things that he means by draining a k tank is wasting time and money.

Okay, so say you can get a 2 inch marble done on a phantom in 30 minutes, spending like 1/13 of a k tank. Now, same marble will take like a hour on something smaller. Therefore you waste a half hour, are more bored, falling asleep, and you spent 1.5 the gas.

So, in essense, buy the biggest you can afford and make it a priority. The hotter you work your production will triple what you would have been able to do. Dollars Dollars Dollars.

Even the phantom is tiny, I'm losing money by being a cheapass again!

[Action Glass]

Funksizzle, well said as always....haha you crack me up. Either way i forget what its like to move slow. Im wasting money continuing to reply to this thread. Embrace moving slow. I have two kids and a wife to support now. No time to move slow anymore. I got laid off from a crap sushi job and then orders started flowing like a tidal wave. Embrace and soak up your baby steps while it lasts.

[Simian]

Ok so a redmax used is better than the cheetah is your estimation. It seems for some very good reasons.

[kbinkster]

The Red Max is wider, but the Cheetah is definitely hotter. The Cheetah is also more oxygen efficient than the Red Max and is triple mix, so it is nicer on colors.

[Simian]

So does the heat of the cheetah make up for the size differential?

[Simian]

Sorry thinking of a different board. Your monkey face is all over.

The Rogan board or Milspec Monkey?

[Simian]

The Red Max is wider, but the Cheetah is definitely hotter. The Cheetah is also more oxygen efficient than the Red Max and is triple mix, so it is nicer on colors.

So if you were me and wanting to work small pieces up to 2.5" marbles, the majority of work likely being smaller than that for some time, which torch would you buy? I know getting more torch than I need is advisable so I can grow into it. I can't afford a new CC now and I don't want to buy something I will grow out of too quickly. It seems to me that the Cheetah would be good to have even if later on down the road I bought a much larger torch.

Fuck, now I know how all those old ladies feel when they come into my produce department and stare at the 30' salad wall for a half hour trying to decide which green they want for dinner.

[Shattered Dreams]

yeah, thats why people seemed to recommend the lynx for me.

it'll do what i need it to in order to learn and develop skill, and the price isnt bad.
and you'll save a hundred bucks over the cheetah even.
then if you save up for a mirage, you already know what the centerfire is like.
its probably not a bad torch to have around even once you get a new one.
or sell it and your that much closer to the bigger torch.
i ordered my lynx yesterday
i would have loved to get a two stage torch so i could have the bigger flame when needed,
but its just not in the budget when youre trying to set up for cheap.
so many other things to worry about, get something that will start you off and sell some stuff to make money.
if you can do that, it wont be long before you can upgrade.

[hellawacked]

Maybe this will help I went against what people said and got a cheetah it's plenty hot. Someone on here is making some cool shit on a cheetah when I get a chance I'll try and find the link.

The biggest downside to the cheetah its a gas hog. I'll go through a k tank (300) in about 3 days but I'm cherishing my oxygen (mostly working small) as soon as I go bigger I'm gonna need some other option for oxy.

The no small flame arguments kinda crap I'll agree I'd prob love a lynx way more the lynx has one jet in the middle surrounded by 6 on the outside where as the cheetah has 3 surrounded by 10 so its not as percise but I'm getting a hand torch so it'll become a nonissue. It's really up to you I'd say just go for a gtt lynx you'll be happy if you know your gonna get a hand torch get a cheetah.

[Simian]

Hadn't even considered a hand torch. Thanks for the idea!

[kbinkster]

So does the heat of the cheetah make up for the size differential?
For what you're describing here, yes. The Cheetah has greater heat density, which is what you need when working solid. It can get a lot of heat into the glass without beating it up, which allows you to build up a good heat base. You can work up to 3" boro marbles on the Cheetah, so 2.5" isn't going to be a problem.

My opinion is biased (my husband is Willy of GTT), but I think you'll also hear the same thing I'm saying from other guys working with Cheetahs. After I got married, I worked on a Cheetah for a while to see what it could do (my regular torch is a Phantom). I really enjoyed the Cheetah!


So if you were me and wanting to work small pieces up to 2.5" marbles, the majority of work likely being smaller than that for some time, which torch would you buy? I know getting more torch than I need is advisable so I can grow into it. I can't afford a new CC now and I don't want to buy something I will grow out of too quickly. It seems to me that the Cheetah would be good to have even if later on down the road I bought a much larger torch.
For the budget and work you're describing, the Cheetah sounds like a great choice. It is a good torch and will get you pretty far down the road.


Fuck, now I know how all those old ladies feel when they come into my produce department and stare at the 30' salad wall for a half hour trying to decide which green they want for dinner.
:lol

[Chubbles]

Midrange plus throws a beast flame for $400. I'm a gtt guy, and the lynx can not keep up with the midrange. The lynx is a way better torch though. It's just I can pull points of 38mm on a midrange. Can't do that on a lynx.

[Chubbles]

Also what kbinkster just said is the truth. The cheetah is an incredible value. Sick amount of heat for 550.

[Simian]

Good to hear. I think there is no way to get around buying another larger torch down the road.

[byron3]

Look to own many torches over the course or your glass blowing career.
My first was a National 8M .................
I handed it over to my wife and got an 8M with premix rider ...................
The CC came months later when I needed heat .................
The Lynx came at Christmas ................. the CC and oxy sensitive colors do not play well .....................

I am dreaming of that Mirage with my name on it .....................

[Simian]

It is like anything else. I will want more/cooler/different/new gear.

[Mecha]

Centrifugal Bumble-Puppy.

[Action Glass]

Ive been reading cricket when weve been talking about cheetah. Maybe i should have my eyes checked again.....

[Simian]

I even pointed that out once lol.

[Action Glass]

Yeah i put my spectacles on and read it all again. Ive been pulling 13 hour days in the studio and have been wearing my ace202s. I should be wearing my boroscopes.

[Simian]

Care to revise any of your rants? :D

[Action Glass]

Not really....

[Simian]

Just found some good package deals on ebay.

Red Max $709 with regs, arresters, hose, clamps and spark lighter. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nortel-Red-Max-Torch-Kit-for-Glass-/160792532530?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item256ffb5632)

Bethlehem Bravo $999 with regs, arresters, hose, clamps and spark lighter. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bethlehem-Bravo-Torch-Kit-for-Glass-/160812935104?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item257132a7c0)

Still leaning toward a Cheetah but the gear head in me wants that Bravo and wishes it could afford that CC.

[Simian]

Well god dammit!

I just got all 3 volumes of Contemporary Lampworking today and holy shit are those books bad ass!

Talk about inspiring. Volume three is all color and the first two are B&W. Amazing tutorials and very through explanations ( I have only read the safety and setting up a shop parts).

I think perhaps my best spent money so far.

[Chad S]

Lampworking Bible = Priceless

[Simian]

Lampworking Bible = Priceless

No kidding! Volume three is not as technically explicit about beginner stuff but the thoroughness of the advance tutorials is awesome.

[kbinkster]

I don't think he's talking about Contemporary Lampworking, although some people consider it a lampworking bible. Lampworking Bible is something else and... don't buy it.

[Simian]

Hmmm, have not come across that one. I have only seen the CL volumes referred to as the "bible".

I can't stop reading them. I am in the middle of a business law class and have totally neglected my reading for the class since I got them. lol.

[kbinkster]

Oh, you know what, I was thinking he was making a joke about Craig Bellinger, but that was "The Glass Blowers Bible." My bad, sorry.

[H1JACK3R]

I heard he was making something new out at Revere a while back. Probably about as useless.

[Simian]

Why Is that guy's work considered crap?

[H1JACK3R]

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=the+glassblowers+bible

[Simian]

I figured you guys would just answer since it takes the same amount of energy as posting that link. I don't care enough to research it.

[TlkQ]

I know nothing of this glassblowing bible. This was a review google found.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mfvPagJAV_MJ:www.420genetics.com/forum/showthread.php%3Ft%3D4308+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[H1JACK3R]

Yet you care enough to post and ask?

[Simian]

Someone else brought it up. I guess I need to be wary of the hall monitors.

[LooseSeal Baller]

45873

where's your hall pass bra..
here you wanna smoke bra..
go with christ bra

[Simian]

That's dr me laugh out loud.

[Simian]

Made. Lol. Jeebus.

[Simian]

Cheetah or Bravo?

[nodice]

I think you should get a delta mag. Those ate the bomb!

[kbinkster]

or Scorpion

Still thinking Cheetah for what you described.

[Simian]

Why not the bravo?

[Simian]

Nice, kiln should be on the way tomorrow. Work space got built today minus the ventilation and I need a few sheets of hardbacker for the floor.

Decided to go with the Bravo. I can't afford the larger GTTs and the Cheetah seems like I might out grow it too quickly. I haven't placed an order yet so if anyone had a comparable option I am all ears. Probably going to buy it from Brent Graber if he has one in stock since he just started repping Bethlehem.

[Action Glass]

I assume you saw the bravo kit on ebay? I got mine from mountain glass.

[Simian]

I saw it but I think I am going to get mine from Brent so I can support a small business. Assuming he has one in stock.

I may get it from ebay if he falls through. Not sure. I think it would be a nice, efficient and I would definitely be able to grow into it.

[Simian]

Would it be wise to run a concentrator on the Bravo? If so which size would be optimal?

[kbinkster]

Would it be wise to run a concentrator on the Bravo? If so which size would be optimal?
For "full flame" consumption, Bethlehem says that the Bravo needs 31 LPM. If you are trying to get the most out of this torch (and what sized marble can it make on it? I heard about 2.5"), you would either need several concentrators or go with tanked oxygen.

If you go with tanked oxygen, both the Scorpion and the Cheetah are going to serve you better than the Bravo. The Scorpion and Cheetah can both work up to 3" boro marbles and they are both more oxygen efficient than the Bravo (11 LPM for the Cheetah, 11 LPM listed for the Scorpion, but I believe it can still use a little more and maintain a usable flame). For tanked oxygen, I would choose the Cheetah over the Scorpion because the Cheetah has the triple mix feature. It is also less expensive.

If you go with concentrators, the Scorpion would be the best choice of the three because it maximizes not only low pressures, but low volumes of oxygen, as well - which means it will require fewer concentrators to run and/or it will make the most out of the concentrator set-up you have.



All that said, if you still decide to go with the Bravo, then you will need about 31 LPM:
3 10 LPM machines will get you about 29 LPM (when you add machines together, they backpressure each other a little bit and you get a little less flow from them)
4 8 LPM machines will get you about about 31 LPM
6 5 LPM machines will get you 28-29 LPM

And if you get machines, take their purity output into consideration. If you have to run a 10 LPM machine at 8-9 LPM to get good purity, then you will need more machines.

[LooseSeal Baller]

not saying anyone's right or wrong, but beths specs says it can run on 8 psi of oxygen which is very low, so one concentrator would probably work just fine, right? as for the gtt's i think its just as important to have a small flame as well as a big one. i use a mirage and love it, but have tried the sidewinder and the small flame just wasn't focused enough for me. if your gonna get a gtt make sure you get one that has the lynx as the center fire. just my opinion.

[Simian]

I wanted to Mirage but it was too expensive. I just ordered a Bravo with a foot pedal so we will see how that works out for me. Glad that is a done deal. Pretty exhaustive search and many good arguments for different options.

Kiln-check, used Paragon SC3 $570ish
Torch, and everything up to the regs- check $1220
Workbench built and fire proofed - check, $60

Still need :
Ventilation solution
Oxy tank
glass
tools

I have roughly $500 left out of my initial start up fund of $2400, I spent more than I wanted to on the torch but I figure it will pay off in not having to upgrade for a while, or never if I just like working on the Bravo and don't outgrow it. Now I need to be creative about the rest and find some smoking deals on everything so I can afford more glass.

[kbinkster]

not saying anyone's right or wrong, but beths specs says it can run on 8 psi of oxygen which is very low, so one concentrator would probably work just fine, right? as for the gtt's i think its just as important to have a small flame as well as a big one. i use a mirage and love it, but have tried the sidewinder and the small flame just wasn't focused enough for me. if your gonna get a gtt make sure you get one that has the lynx as the center fire. just my opinion.
There's a difference between psi and flow (commonly expressed as LPM - liters per minute and CFH - cubic feet per hour). On a tank regulator, you set the line pressure at whatever psi (you do this while the torch is running). What that is doing is telling the regulator that the pressure of gas inside that line needs to stay at 8 psi and if it drops below that, let more oxygen in from the tank (increase the flow, AKA LPM or CFH, from the tank) to get it up to 8 psi pressure in the line and if it tries to go higher than 8 psi, limit the oxygen from the tank (lower the flow from the tank) so it doesn't build up excess pressure in the line. You can open your valves up all the way on the torch or open them just a little and the regulator is going to keep that 8 psi line pressure (the working pressure) constant. The flow is what is going to change according to how much you open or close the oxygen valves on the torch. So, while your regulator is set to 8 psi, you could be using 3 LPM for a small flame, or 31 LPM for a large flame.

On a concentrator, the psi output that is listed is a static pressure measurement and not a running or working pressure. The LPM listed on the machine tells you how many liters of oxygen the machine can produce each minute and the psi is just the push behind it when the torch oxygen valve is closed (and when you close the valve, you backpressure the machine and no flow comes out - don't do this - always keep the oxygen valve open except for the brief moment it takes to light the torch). When the valve is open, the working/running pressure could be significantly less.

What matters most when choosing a concentrator is the flow, the LPM, it can provide. If you have a torch with internal restrictions (like the triple mixes with their injector tubes), you will want a little more push behind that flow than you would with a torch with fewer internal restrictions (like a Scorpion or Bravo).

[H1JACK3R]

I think I've said this already, but, I really like my Scorpion on concentrators. I hope the W's get it back to me soon...

[LooseSeal Baller]

There's a difference between psi and flow (commonly expressed as LPM - liters per minute and CFH - cubic feet per hour). On a tank regulator, you set the line pressure at whatever psi (you do this while the torch is running). What that is doing is telling the regulator that the pressure of gas inside that line needs to stay at 8 psi and if it drops below that, let more oxygen in from the tank (increase the flow, AKA LPM or CFH, from the tank) to get it up to 8 psi pressure in the line and if it tries to go higher than 8 psi, limit the oxygen from the tank (lower the flow from the tank) so it doesn't build up excess pressure in the line. You can open your valves up all the way on the torch or open them just a little and the regulator is going to keep that 8 psi line pressure (the working pressure) constant. The flow is what is going to change according to how much you open or close the oxygen valves on the torch. So, while your regulator is set to 8 psi, you could be using 3 LPM for a small flame, or 31 LPM for a large flame.

On a concentrator, the psi output that is listed is a static pressure measurement and not a running or working pressure. The LPM listed on the machine tells you how many liters of oxygen the machine can produce each minute and the psi is just the push behind it when the torch oxygen valve is closed (and when you close the valve, you backpressure the machine and no flow comes out - don't do this - always keep the oxygen valve open except for the brief moment it takes to light the torch). When the valve is open, the working/running pressure could be significantly less.

What matters most when choosing a concentrator is the flow, the LPM, it can provide. If you have a torch with internal restrictions (like the triple mixes with their injector tubes), you will want a little more push behind that flow than you would with a torch with fewer internal restrictions (like a Scorpion or Bravo).

ah. low pressure not low flow. gotcha. thanks.

[rvp117]

Hey H1jack3r, are you having the W's clean your new torch and if so, what price did they quote you? I am working on a ex-15 scratch and dent for beads and then I have to work tanks when I do pipes. That little ex-15 won't even power the outter fire.

[H1JACK3R]

It got damaged in shipping. The inner fire propane valve EXTREMELY loose. Also had some elongated candles, it needed a good cleaning.

They said the cleaning would be between 60-75, and that the valve most likely just needed to be tightened, which they would do for free. If the valve needs replaced, I was told it wouldn't be more than 50.

Cost me about 20 bucks to ship it to them insured through FedEx. So, I'm estimating about 175 total, shipped back and forth. But you never know...

I can't get the seller to respond to my emails now. I just politely asked if she purchased shipping insurance, so that I could file a claim. Oh well.

[H1JACK3R]

And oh yeah, I'm waiting on the arrival of a Hurricane. That's what I'm going to be using for my Scorpion. No tanks for me.

[Simian]

Tanks get nuttin!

[Simian]

Fucking iPhone.
Tanks fer nuttin!

[kbinkster]

With what you have left in your budget, I think leasing an oxygen tank would be your best bet. Once you get going, you can see how much oxygen you're consuming and decide what kind of concentrator set-up you would want, if you even want one.

I didn't see eye protection on your list. That is hugely important. Don't skimp here.

What do you have in mind for ventilation? Some guys have scored squirrel cage fans for nothing or next to it. Other guys use attic fans and they aren't all that expensive. Check out the ventilation threads for low-cost ideas.

On tools, you don't have to go crazy up front and can get more tools as time goes on. Just to start off and get going, get a decent marvering paddle and some long tweezers. There are a lot of things you can make on your own or find around the house. Improvising is part of the fun!

Check out the glass suppliers for glass sales. There are some going on right now. I think Mountain Glass Arts and Frantz are having sales.

[Simian]

Got some eyes from wale apparatus.

Yeah gotta lease. Tanks are too expensive and I missed out on 3 inexpensive used tanks by getting to the garage sales late.

[LooseSeal Baller]

I think ust and eu have good deals on clear or if your gonna order 10 or more cases glass craft gives a 45% discount, but i think eu and ust offer about the same and you don't have to order 10 cases. just a little fyi

[Action Glass]

I like eu. They ship fed ex too. Ust ships ups.

[Simian]

Thanks for the tips guys! I have about 60 bookmarks of just glass stuff. Lol. Glad I am all stocks up on disc golf gear, guns and ammo cause I think glass is my new OCD lol.

[Action Glass]

Yep with the guns and disks will probably sit in the closet. Flameworking is a long windy road. Stay focused.

[Simian]

The guns will but the disc won't. I play professionally.

I plan on doing a of of work at night since my wife and kiddo crash early and I am a night owl.

[Action Glass]

I have a four year old and five day old. Working at night is a struggle in this weather but i gotta do it.

[Simian]

Yeah working nights is rough but this is not my profession. I am starting this for fun and if it becomes profitable i will be happy to embrace it. So for me I don't mind staying up late and having fun...if it felt like work I wouldn't do it...I get enough of that at work.

[Action Glass]

I guess that sounds bad. Especially from someone that hates work. But sometimes i have deadlines to meet. I still milk the clock as much as possible. :-)

[Simian]

LoL. I trained dogs for about 10 years and I was a chef for about 3 years...I loved both and loved working long hours doing both. This seems similar enough I will probably have the same "problem".

[Action Glass]

9 years of loving the kitchen. Im glad im out.

[Simian]

I loved running a kitchen but I am glad I am out too. I got offered better money for something i liked less and I took it to improve my family's quality of life. I didn't realize how physically demanding that job was until I left it. The job I have now I walk roughly 6-7 miles a day and chuck 50lb bags of taters occasionally. Good workout and about $5 more an hour than managing that kitchen.

[Simian]

Funny thing is that I agonized over which torch to get. I really wanted that Mirage but I am very happy with the Bravo. I did my taxes about 24 hours after my Bravo shipped and wouldn't ya know it, $4500 return. LOL. I guess it just makes the getting tools and glass less of an issue. Torch arrives friday kiln next week. Yay me!

[Shattered Dreams]

do you have your setup built already?

[Simian]

Work table is built but I still need to vent it and pick up 2 more sheets of hardibacker for the floor space directly below the torch. Torch and Kiln will be installed in the next week and a half.

[Simian]

Anyone use portable or adjustable lighting? I am looking for some good adjustable lighting and I am not sure what would be best and how different kinds of lighting will effect how I see the glass. Maybe it is a moot point but I figured I would ask.

I am running a small kiln, light and fan off of separate outlets and according to the specs on the kiln and fan I am looking at I can totally add a light. Any thoughts on a good shop light would be much appreciated.

I would prefer a plug in light but I am open to solar options or battery powered options.

[LooseSeal Baller]

nice cheap flourecent lights ( however u spell it) 4ft a mixture of warm and cool bulbs should give you a good spectrum.

[Simian]

nice cheap flourecent lights ( however u spell it) 4ft a mixture of warm and cool bulbs should give you a good spectrum.

What is the best placement in your estimation? Have you seen them in lug in versions? I can't run electrical it is too much of an undertaking.

[LooseSeal Baller]

i just put them directly over your work station 2 or 3 feet above your head. just go to walmart it's like 10 bucks fixture plus 10 more for the bulbs just plugs in

[Simian]

Good to know. They have what you are talking about for $30 at Home Depot. I will check wally World first.

Ventilation is the project for next week. Gotta see what I can scrounge up on the cheap.

[LooseSeal Baller]

yep, not sure if it's true or not but i heard if you ask around at some heating and air conditioning places they might have some old squirrel cage fans and they could be free.

[Captain Glass]

If you can't get a free squirrel cage then check out amazon for the gable fans they have. I just ordered one someone posted a link of on Sunday night and I already have it up and installed and it was only $56 after shipping and moves 1300 Cfm
You can order 2 for less then what you would get from Home Depot, much less.

[Simian]

Yeah I saw that too. My issue is that I have to have it plug in to a power strip and I don't want ti fuck about with running any electrical.

[LooseSeal Baller]

Yeah I saw that too. My issue is that I have to have it plug in to a power strip and I don't want ti fuck about with running any electrical.

either way, I think you need to wire a plug to the end of the wire so you can plug it in. It's way easier than you think, 3 wires some electrical tape and a grounded plugin. real simple, not like you need to hard wire it into your electrical system or anything like that.

[TlkQ]

Yea, putting a plug on something is nothing to be scared of. Wicked easy. It'll come with some stupid box wired to it. Just cut the wires going to the box. I'm pretty sure it'll just be 2 wires. I don't think my fan came with a ground. Buy a plug for like a dollar at any hardware store. Open it up and loosen the screws on the terminals. If there are only 2 wires it doesn't matter which side you connect them to. Wrap the wires around the screws and tighten them back down. Close the plug up and you're good to go. The only thing to watch for is make sure the wires in the plug don't touch each other. Usually not a problem unless you're using old, used over and over wire ends.a

I used to be a master electrician for theatre. Half of my job was switching plugs on lighting instruments. Wicked easy thing to do.

[Simian]

Fair enough. You sold me on it.

[Simian]

So my Bravo arrived today with regs, flashback arrestors, foot pedal etc...

I am pretty sure I am missing something. It looks to me like I need to connect the footpeddle to the torch with barbed nipples and clamps and I need two male/male fittings to attack the tank hose to the foot pedal.

Does that sound about right? I will have to give them a ring tomorrow since I thought I had purchased everything I needed to cover me from tank to torch. They may have just neglected to pack them.

[TlkQ]

Huh? What has fittings and what has barbs? Hopefully they are all male ends. Don't forget you can cut your hoses to make shit work too. My setup, with no foot pedal, goes regs -> Flashback -> y's -> hoses -> cut end of hoses onto barbs of torch.

[Simian]

From the looks of it, I have these components:

regs> flashback arresters>12' hose> footpedal (I need two male/male to fittings to connect the hose to the FP as it seems to T off the oxy and fule internally)> The footpedal has 2 oxy and 2 fuel lins coming off it all cut that need to connect to my Bravo which has 4 female fittings. In the package there are 2 male/barbed nipple fittings but it looks like I need 4 to connect to the torch and clamps for all 4.

[Action Glass]

Using a griffin?

[Simian]

http://www.dichroicimagery.com/product_info.php?cPath=432_177&products_id=1727

[Action Glass]

Yikes not to sure about that one. I know tcb makes a really nice one. Can you not just put the barbs it came with on the inlet. Score your hose from the flashback slide on barb tighten clamp. By any chance are you talking about m2m barbs or b fittings?

[Nomad]

I had to set up my lines with the help of airgas. You need to put in a Y on your lines to connect it. But the new improved Bravo includes the Y and the lines are long enough to just have the Y on them without adding line to attach the Y. If your using a foot pedal then you just need to hook it up to the foot pendal. I am sure your local welding shop can help you with the lines to hook it up if you need any more help. I use a Bravo and I love it.

http://youtu.be/4n74M_PJp-Y

[Simian]

I am gonna make a list of what is missing later. I am pretty sure when I ordered over the phone I was clear about wanting every hose and fitting necessary to be complete from tank to torch but something got lost in translation I guess. I really don't want to wait a week so I will just pick up the fittings here in town when I get my Oxy on Monday.

Thanks for all of the help guys.

[Simian]

Ok, so I have the torch and hoses squared away. I spent about 30 minutes at my local wekding shop with some really great guys. They got me squared away and I now also have a full T tank in my shop as well (no credit check, $27 a fill & 6.75 a month to rent it).

I was able to adjust the Oxy to the prescribed 8psi that Bethlehem recommends. My only problem is that the LP reg is pinned on the left side and the right side won't register an adjustment when I turn the valve on the reg. If I just crack the tank barely I can get close to the 2psi they recommend but I am not sure that is desirable.

Any thoughts?

[kbinkster]

You need to open the tank all the way and adjust the regulator pressure with the T. Just set it somewhere close to where you want it and then go light the torch and you can fine tune it if you have to while the torch is on. I don't fine tune my pressure, I just set it a few psi above where I want it and leave it at that.

[Simian]

That was kinda what I was thinking but I wanted to ask in case there was something i was unaware of. I used to build outdoor kitch/bbq islands so I have tons of natural gas experience...not so much with LP.

Thanks for the info!

[kbinkster]

It's good to have the T backed out when turning opening the tank valve. A sudden burst of pressurized gas could blow out your regulator. If you don't want to back your T out (for whatever reason), then at least open the tank valve slowly.

[Simian]

46187

[kbinkster]

46192

[Simian]

lol. that was a very bored mail room fella.
46193

[Simian]

I have my fan and I am picking up my ventilation set up next week and hopefully I will get it installed before the weekend. Gonna head down and visit Grey Matter on 3/3 and stock up on some glass unless the tax man somehow fucks me by not finishing my return by then. As soon as the shop it squared away I will post pics. Almost time to start a progression thread so everyone can point and laugh at the afterbirth. :D

[Simian]

Here are a few of the carvings I used to do as a chef. Thought you guys might dig checking them out. I finish setting my shop up tomorrow. Stoked to start a progression thread this weekend.

46726

46727

46728

46729

46730

[kbinkster]

Those are fantastic!

[STROKER]

those melons are badass. are you still in the carving business?

[Bo Diddles]

Nice melons!

[Simian]

those melons are badass. are you still in the carving business?

Nope, I thought about hustling some wedding work but it was too much effort and hard to find the time to market myself. I loved it thouugh...tons of fun and people really responded to it. Lol, I had the nicest chef case out of 1000 stores so I was pretty stoked that people thought we were a cut above.

[Simian]

Nice melons!

Thanks...they are implants.

[May Fern]

Very cool!

[Colin Allhose]

Holy shit those melons are sweet!
i've done ice & wood chainsaw carving for a few years but never ventured to fruits and veggies.... What tools do you use for that? Obviously a blade, what kind? ; a simple kitchen knife?
haha nice man, i can dig it!

[LooseSeal Baller]

sweet. i saw some fruit art on a cruise once. awesome job

[H1JACK3R]

Damn dude, if I was that good at carving melons, I wouldn't bother blowing glass. Seems like you're passing up your calling.

[Simian]

Holy shit those melons are sweet!
i've done ice & wood chainsaw carving for a few years but never ventured to fruits and veggies.... What tools do you use for that? Obviously a blade, what kind? ; a simple kitchen knife?
haha nice man, i can dig it!

I have about 12 knives, chisels, and scoops that have razor edges on them. The MOM one is my favorite. It took me about 3 hrs to do. Super fun. I used Youtube and some Thai books to teach myself. No I am not fluent in Thai...just had to use the pics.

[joh03307]

Hi, i just got into glass lampworking, my background is ceramics, for the past seven years, so i kinda know what to expect and what i'm doing... long story shot...,
you need $1500 straight up to get every thing at your door,
tools and start up glass 250,
torch for a nice one that youll grow into 500+,
small kiln 300, large kiln 500+,
tanks oxygen T style tank contract with supplyer praxair 180+ first fill for 5 years, not that bad,,,propane, 20+
hoes and brass fittings and flash back arrestors 150+
you gotta read and do research! its all free!

with two jobs and a buddy that matched my start up investment this is what i have put together months,
1200sq,ft of garage space with cement floors,
sheet rocked and sheet metel walls, alot of work! 1/8 sheet metal on just about every thing! got it all of free thats why! and made large stainless steel work benches!
ventilation: 2 garage doors, 2 extirior doors, and 6 large picture windows,
equipment: knight bullet torch 500 ebay
gtt bobcat sundanceglass.com 200
gtt lynx 300 a friend,
national hand torch 60 ebay.
ill have a herbie soon ha ha,
oxygen: K tank 330 cf 200+
regulators: victor two stage medium duty 160 ebay
kiln: 1822 s evenheat, fired less than 5 times brand new! 450$ local pick up add, pyrometer 50 ebay,
80 pounds in 10 '' color rods assorted 93 coe, 40 lb assorted pyrex tubs and joints ect, and a shoe box of frit, 50$ local pick up!

You gotta do your research,
but it feels great when you can shoot a flaming light saber!

[Shattered Dreams]

wow, how did you get 80 lbs of color, 40 lbs of clear, and frit for $50?
deal of the century.

oh wait, you say its 93 coe? wrong type of glass...
still, 40 lbs of pyrex tube and joints is great for $50 alone.

[Simian]

I was doing my research. I have done my research. Perhaps 7 post guy should check his math and research his COE.

[Shattered Dreams]

yeah, he should do lots more research on ventilation.

open garage doors and windows are not adequate for ventilation, you need an exhaust fan.

[kbinkster]

yeah, he should do lots more research on ventilation.

open garage doors and windows are not adequate for ventilation, you need an exhaust fan.

That was pointed out to him in another thread, too.

[dukeglass]

just wanted to say this topic has been especially helpful to me, i am in the process of starting up (with a similar budget) and i have been able to not only learn, but save myself a decent amount of money from this post, others like it, and the help of a friend or two. i learned a long time ago patience is key when getting into something like this, and i am glad i did, because to many hazardous or expensive mistakes can be made along with way! thank you to all the knowledgeable people sharing what they having learned.

[Simian]

if it is any consolation i have reached the $3000 mark. Once I started looking around and really learning what I would want and want to grow into I decided to up the ante. I could have gone super small and done it on my original budget but that would have been no fun and I got lucky and came into some money.

[Action Glass]

Hi, i just got into glass lampworking, my background is ceramics, for the past seven years, so i kinda know what to expect and what i'm doing... long story shot...,
you need $1500 straight up to get every thing at your door,
tools and start up glass 250,
torch for a nice one that youll grow into 500+,
small kiln 300, large kiln 500+,
tanks oxygen T style tank contract with supplyer praxair 180+ first fill for 5 years, not that bad,,,propane, 20+
hoes and brass fittings and flash back arrestors 150+
you gotta read and do research! its all free!

with two jobs and a buddy that matched my start up investment this is what i have put together months,
1200sq,ft of garage space with cement floors,
sheet rocked and sheet metel walls, alot of work! 1/8 sheet metal on just about every thing! got it all of free thats why! and made large stainless steel work benches!
ventilation: 2 garage doors, 2 extirior doors, and 6 large picture windows,
equipment: knight bullet torch 500 ebay
gtt bobcat sundanceglass.com 200
gtt lynx 300 a friend,
national hand torch 60 ebay.
ill have a herbie soon ha ha,
oxygen: K tank 330 cf 200+
regulators: victor two stage medium duty 160 ebay
kiln: 1822 s evenheat, fired less than 5 times brand new! 450$ local pick up add, pyrometer 50 ebay,
80 pounds in 10 '' color rods assorted 93 coe, 40 lb assorted pyrex tubs and joints ect, and a shoe box of frit, 50$ local pick up!

You gotta do your research,
but it feels great when you can shoot a flaming light saber!

What the hell just happened?