Young Kids Torching

[ROGUE]

Recently some of my glass has caught the eye of my friends 10 year old daughter and am curious if some of you that have some small ones behind the torch have any specific torch or safety recommendations.

I have three children of my own 11-15 so I know all the general child safety stuff and probably don't need any of that advice. but...

Something like a child friendly torch, torch set up, glasses that fit, gloves that fit... I'm pretty excited to let her try this because she was so excited when I was showing her how stuff was made, but I want to make sure she is completely safe and that she doesn't get hurt and get scared away.

[menty666]

I let my oldest try when he was four, but that was based on two things:
a) His ability to follow directions so I knew he could grasp certain safety concepts
b) His motor skills ability to rotate a rod (pencil to start).

Even then, I never completely let go of his hands when they were near the flame, and he still managed to touch a still hot rod of clear to his shoulder.

He still asks to try now and again (he's 7) but he's mostly not interested.

I had him wear my shade 5 goggles since they strapped on easier while I wore the guest diddys I keep on hand.

My other son, again, with hands on assistance, made a small blown ornament this holiday past season and he was 4 at the time. He really really wants to get out there again to learn to make marbles.

It depends on the child. I know 11 year olds I wouldn't let near my torch. I know of some of my kid's friends who I'd let in with a parental waiver.

edit: Oh, and I set up the Cricket for their torch sessions rather than have them accidentally turn on the larger flame on my redmax.

[ROGUE]

Excellent!

Thank you Menty. I was thinking the same thing about the outer fire on my cc. I was certainly thinking about a cricket too. This girl is super smart and intensely interested. I gave her an extremely quick run down or how to create a vortex marble and how to round it once it was done. After I was done telling her how to make it I jokingly asked her to repeat how to make a vortex and she did lol. So it seems she may do well, I just don't want her getting hurt and then loosing interest because she's scared.

[maui greenstone]

Maybe someone can chime in on this, but I have heard that children's eyes are growing quickly until they are about 13 and the infra red (sp?) rays can cause lasting damage to the young eyes where as ours are less succeptable.

[ramanglass544]

I started at 11, still got all 10 of my fingers and both of my eyes.

[menty666]

Dunno, but that's why I erred on the side of caution and had him wear my 5's I certainly wouldn't have him out there at the torch for an extended period either; when he asks I come up with something quick for him to make: a 1/4" marble, maybe a hummingbird, a small, 1/2" blown ornament. Just enough to get his feet wet and interested.

But I'm sure there are folks around here that have kids that were in the carrier or swing out in the shop with them when they were tiny little things and they grew up just fine.

If you search around on here, you'll find a few other threads about having the kids out to the torch too. I know it's come up before.

edit: one other thing...we're big on hands on science interactions around here, but every experiment begins with a safety session because my wife and I are of the mind that our kids will eventually do something stupid, we want to ingrain the sense of adventure with a healthy respect for doing things safely so they don't harm themselves or others when it happens. So with the torch, we had a full safety talk on where not to put your hands, what not to touch, why we use the ventilation and the special glasses, what happens to the glass and why we anneal. When we played with dry ice it was how the reactions work, why it fogs, why it's dangerous to touch, why you shouldn't put it in a closed container, etc.

Safety is very much a first priority, including in the shop.

Plus at this age they have the attention span of gnats, so they aren't out for too long anyway :D

[Action Glass]

My son (4) paints and colors in the studio while I work. I always have him wear shade 5 didys while he's in there. That said he loses interest real quick cause its too dark to paint. The only reason is he is always curious and wants to watch what I'm doing. When he's on the torch its a different story. He loves it. But yea goggles are the way to go. I only allow him to torch for a few minutes though, just to melt and bend stuff. Maui you are right eyes are still developing especially depth perception but I believe its before 13. Everyone grows at a different pace.

[JnglJnke]

I have been pondering the same thing. I think I'll let my seven year old boys try it soon.

[xlconch]

When I have kids wanting to learn, first I get a 'waiver of liability' form from their parents sating, basically that their kid will probably get hurt, so don't sue me!

Safety lecture: hot things burn; sharp things cut; bright things hut the eyes; gases hurt the lungs

First project: a solid dachshund (wiener) dog. Demonstrate first. Student does one 'theirself' with my hands literally on theirs. They do the work, I guide/restrict/control their actions. Then they do one totally themselves. Almost always they get one that at least stands by itself and looks reasonable. This teaches heating, bending, attachment, burning off.

After that it is a matter of watching, intently at first, that they don't do stupid things like trying to move the glass by hand.

I don't take anyone before second grade and prefer older.

[misled youth]

i am all for kids on the torch!
imagine if we had the imaginations like they have?
i have let a few kids try, but had parents there supervising.
i know misha taught her son, maybe she will chime in...

[Theory]

I'm 17 and just finally am getting started on the torch have wanted to for about 2 years now just has took a while to buy all the equiptment. Wish I would have been able to start young as I loved art as a kid and still do!

[Greymatter Glass]

Young Kids Torching is the name of my Screamo / Hip-hop fusion project.

Our first release is titled "Dragon Swagger"

[kage]

^ that's what I thought this thread was about...argh...still waiting on that single to drop.

[Coal]

So my good friend with many years with glass experience had a setup of 9 Nortel minors he used to teach bead classes. He made a collar that slips over the torch that consisted of a series of SS rods to prevent kids from accidentally running there hands through the flame. I'm not sure how it was designed but the principle was they had to run the bead mandrel in between the rods and could use it kid of as a guide i guess. Just imagine an outer ring of rods pointing outward parallel to the flame but out just enuf that the flame doesn't melt them or heat them up.

My biggest concern with having my kids on the torch is getting burnt and not wanting to try it again.

[Bo Diddles]

That's a pretty good idea

[glassfreek]

I agree with all the great advise in this thread.

Along with the liability release, I required a parent to be on site watching the lesson. That can be a great stop gap for both child behavior moments, and for the parent to know that you are working in a safe way. I do instruct the parent not to make general conversation that could be distracting. I like the idea of the parent witnessing the handling of the hot stuff. That could be a variable if the relationship of parent to child is a strained or over controlled one.

The youngest I would allow a child to enroll was 13. I would draw lines on the bench to indicate the no hands zone for them once they are hands off from me. The every kid is different rule is the most important. My 35 year old sister was not nearly as good at directions as the kids were.

We had our grandson working out of the furnace when he was 5. He had been asking for years. Mike and I worked with him together. One on the hot end, one on the tools. He did great. Made cups for his parents and grandparents for the holidays. Things move a little slower in that venue than on the torch. I could not believe it was the same 5 year old who can't remember what you said three seconds before. The medium focused him, he kind of went into a zen stage. Wouldn't it be cool if he went on to study formally. That is his choice, and there will be no pushing :)

[RamblezMarblez]

I wouldn't do it...to much liability...I doubt a signed piece of paper wouldn't hold up since they are under 18...I saw on judge judy a guy had to pay hospital bills towards a kid who got shot in the eye with a plastic pellet gun during a war game play with others b/c the kid took off his helmet infield...The defendant who accidentally shot him in the eye had permission from the kids' Mom parent to play this war game (not even paintballs)...He still had to pay the hospital bill and lost because essentially he's still responsible for the kids safety. Number one rule...Don't take off your mask!

[bowlpusher]

I am mentoring a deceased friends 1 yo son. He's taking to it really well. Any suggestions to what I should teach him? He's got implosions down, and working on pendant loops. I'm excited to see him really want to learn.

[Coal]

I am mentoring a deceased friends 1 yo son. He's taking to it really well. Any suggestions to what I should teach him? He's got implosions down, and working on pendant loops. I'm excited to see him really want to learn.

^^hahaha made my night, 1 year old gotta start em early if they are gonna master it before high school!

[MastahGlass]

New meaning to the term 'sweat shop'...

^^hahaha made my night, 1 year old gotta start em early if they are gonna master it before high school!

[r_ains]

I learned soft glass beads at age 10. I was shown the basics by a friend from school (also 10) I met immediately after I moved to Texas. I then took an actual class (1 on 1) and have been off and on at the torch for 18 years now. Both of us were responsible young boys whose parents had taught us to be safe around tools and equipment that could harm us. My parents soon fully trusted me to work alone with a small torch; IE: Hot Head single tank torch head. They also helped me buy my first bigger multi-fuel torch a national 8m before I was out of high school.

Age isn't as important as being willing to follow directions and safety procedures. Some kids are much more mature than others, its a personal call on how old a kid needs to be before you could trust him/her to listen and to be safe.

If the child display interest and will obey all the safety measures then go for it.

[JennWilson]

Totally depends on the kid. Some will be ready to start making little critters at 6 or 7....others could be 17 and I wouldn't let the ding dong in the studio - let alone behind a torch. If you have any worry about having the kid (or anyone for that matter) behind your torch - don't teach 'em. Trust your gut.

I think the biggest thing is their interest. Kids who know they want to do glass are going to enjoy it, even if it takes them awhile to get the hang of it, and they will appreciate you took the time to show them. I've taught beadmaking to a few kids - all really wanted to do it, with the exception of one. He was kinda thrown into the class because his mom and dad were both taking it and wanted him to take it as well (think he was about 10?). The kid wasn't afraid of the torch or anything - but he wasn't interested in the least and I spent most of the class making sure he didn't burn himself since he was not watching what he was doing or where he was putting the glass, or his hand, or the tools. Total nightmare.

Jenny