Anybody else get ripped off?

[khan]

On December 4 of last year i sent Bulletproof..."Your Graphite connection" $75.00 for a slab of graphite... 12x17 and a block 1x4x6....
I got the package and the slab was busted into many pieces... so i took pictures and sent them email to Bulletproof and he answered and said he would send a new one out.
In the last 5 months and after about 10 or 15 emails all i have gotten from him is saying he will send it and then never getting anything in the mail. OVER an over and over he promises to ship my slab and then..... i wait.... nothing...over and over.
He never just comes out and says hes going to rip me off for my $75 bucks... and maybe he really does plan to send it ...ummm someday...
But i want my money back or i want my slab.
Has anyone else been put on this long ass waiting list???? and been given the run around??

Khan

[ROGUE]

I think bulletproof said there was some type of issue they were dealing with. Last I heard all orders were on hold.

[Dan Kooper]

I took a hit on the whole graphite thing because around Christmas pieces started showing up broken. I have sheets here and would love to give you one. It's the damn shipping charge that kills me on these large slabs. I just got some out to other people I owed. I'm trying as fast as I can but reshipping the slabs sucked... I got waaaay over my head. I still have the hookup on it and if anyone local wants it lets know. But I'm not shipping shit until I can get a handle on things. It's coming. I swear it will go out this week. I was ramen broke and some days it was ramen or ship your graphite. Seriously. I'm broke and the graphite made me even more broke because it all broke.
Shit I'm as broke as the fuckin graphite was!
I made a few worked munnys (only a couple) to try and get money because my torch has drilled out ports that are deteriorating and starting to not work great. So I will take some money from this munny and ship your shit. I promise. And the 20 messages in my PM box. Nothing personal but I don't wanna read em right now.

[LooseSeal Baller]

yeah the whole munny to money thing...... seems like your taking this real serious wheres the icon that removes members rep -1 fo sho

[Dan Kooper]

Why? I've collected munnys for a while from kid robot... I don't care. I made 3. One clear and two worked. Every other artist has made one so I did.
I even made him flipping off all the haters...
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/dankshizzle/6AD5F6D6-BA97-4BDE-BD80-3E9C5BB81D94-1963-0000036EA205014E_zps310c1f59.jpg
Because I knew some of you guys would flack me. Fuggit. I need a torch and made something I can sell for a good price. Not like I'm protoing them out. The other one has tits and a dick. I made the first tranny munny. Who gives a fuck. Kid robot made an easy recognizable shape that had a following.

[Dan Kooper]

Here's the clear one I made.
http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/dankshizzle/D5477D64-04C9-4973-B502-902888944DB3-257-00000028506CAAC0_zpsbfad93c7.jpg
I didn't leave it just clear. He's a pervert and he's mine forever.

[LooseSeal Baller]

cool so you take peoples money and make empty promises, and when they call you out on it you post pics of some shit flipping everyone off. real professional bro.

[Dan Kooper]

No, I told him they sold/are selling and I will ship him his pad a second time... And I said I'm not selling anymore till everyone his happy.

.... The finger was for you Barry :)
I knew exactly what some people would say so I made it funny for me. Trying to bring humor into a uncomfortable thread.

[LooseSeal Baller]

thanks right back at ya

[Dan Kooper]

D-rock slanging 1k$ clear munnys with a r-ball on dablab on the reg- shitty
Making a clear one, strapping on a dildo and keeping it-fine
Making 2 worked ones that haven't been made yet-fine
Didn't we go over this?

Look. My bad there is no excuse for the time delay. You are not the only one. One person had like 5 plates break that were all big and expensive plates I bought. I just got it out. I feel terrible I really do but I never asked for any of you to ship the pieces back. I let you keep them and make whatever out of them. And I Am reshipping it all. Scouts honor. The rest of the graphite I have I am going to donate to the Michigan glass project because I don't want to deal with it.

[Dan Kooper]

And look how cute that pendant is. :) I felt like the beastmaster dude looked in his video pulling legs. That's a functional loop. And the detail on the strap on...
Is that the first glass strap on? I made a ton of sweet accessories but most aren't allowed on this site. Kinda against rules.

[PyroChixRock]

If its glass you made you can post it.

[Dan Kooper]

Oh it's all glass. I've been making my kid robot munnys accessories since before Coyle or Byron made the glass versions. I just like making small versions of things and have had munnys for a few years. Ill get my collection together. From marshmallows on a stick to strap ons. :) I even made a tiny munny for my munnys to hold 2 years ago. Not functional but a tiny little solid munny for my munny.
I wish I would have thought of making a glass one back when I collected them but I didn't have the skills or the idea. And I wanted to test myself. I actually learned a lot about my sculpting and making things that don't look like a pipe. And already exist. I used a micrometer and measured my toy. Took him all apart. It was fun. But I'm over it. If I have a good idea I might make another. I don't know..

[khan]

Ok all this talk from Bulletproof... just a bunch of chatter about nothing really... and still i am out my $75 bucks. And he has the nerve to post about how hes saving up to buy a lathe.
I dont think he gets it....
ppl arent going to just forget that you owe them money bullet... just because you post some cute little figures that have nothing to do with the situation...
Its been what...?? 2 more months now since i posted about this... its been 9 months since you sent me a broken piece of graphite....and still no refund or replacement graphite.
You are obviously a young fellow and really do need to grow up in you business dealings..... and dont rip off your fellow glass artist.
Btw this is what i got.... and still have
53197

Khan

[Raimond]

Khan,
Small claims court or if you used a CC call them...

Or use some "graphite glue" to put it back together.

Sorry man, trying to ease the tension!

[khan]

Thank you Raimond.... i wonder what glue would hold graphite like that?

any ideas on that?

Khan

[Raimond]

I think you make it from flour, pneumatic fluid and dehydrated ice... :puzzled:

[Dan Kooper]

I reshipped you graphite. You still didnt get it? Send me your Paypal and ill give you the 75$ back right now. I've shipped things to you 2-3 times now. Do you live in an apartment complex or anything? I hadn't heard from you since I shipped the last one so I figured you had it. Then I read this. Just send me you paypal or whatever and ill transfer you the money back right now. I don't want to deal with it anymore. Keep the graphite. I don't even care. I didnt rip you off. I sent you what you paid for, it broke in shipping. I shipped you another. Apparently you didn't get it. Please just let me give you the $75 back. I don't have time to deal with this.

[Dan Kooper]

I looked through my messages and can't find one from you. Please send me a message with your Paypal. I'm sitting here waiting. I want to resolve this. I don't care that I shipped you 150$ worth of graphite with $20+ shipping charges twice (for sure at least twice) ill take the hit. I lost on the whole idea of selling graphite anyway. What's another $75. Seriously. Please send me your info. I want this behind me.

[Dan Kooper]

Just so everyone knows. He had my phone number and email but hasn't tried getting ahold of me even once since I shipped it again.
This offer is going to go away if you don't reply soon. If you wait another 2 months to reply to me its your own fault.
I sent you free extras (like that block you can see in the pic) and I think that's what broke your slab.
Honestly I'm starting to think this is just a scam to get me to ship graphite AGAIN. So I'm not. Ill give of your 75$ back.

[Organik]

I know bulletproof and he has good intentions... I don't see your situation going unresolved... like he said things happen and from what hes saying im guessing this wasnt the only broken piece he had gotten complaints with, im sure its just taking awhile to reimburse everyone that was effected.. and like he said shipping graphite is not an easy task.. you may be able salvage the piece he's letting you keep for FREE and glue it and on top of that you still have the block.. I hope you get this resolved and are satisfied but I can vouge for bulletproof that you will not be getting ripped off.

[Greymatter Glass]

Please ship free graphite to:

Greymatter Glass
2836 Vassar Dr NE
Albuquerque, NM 87107

:P

[metalbone]

vouge?

[hashmasta-kut]

right on, those munnies be paying off, BP has the dineros now to just pay off the unsatisfied, good show :)

[LooseSeal Baller]

Please ship free graphite to:

Greymatter Glass
2836 Vassar Dr NE
Albuquerque, NM 87107

:P

across the street from airgas i see

[Dan Kooper]

Starting to rethink my offer. Someone that puts me on blast without calling or emailing me shouldn't get to keep the graphite. So ship it all to Doug (not just the broken pieces, the block also). His address is above. Show me a tracking number and I will refund your 75$. Keep in mind that I'm pretty sure that $75 included shipping and I paid over 20$ twice to ship it. But all that aside, I will give you your refund as soon as the graphite is shipped. :)
Thanks again. :)

[LooseSeal Baller]

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me :barney:

[khan]

Bullet... i have the emails i sent you every month since December. i probably emailed you 10 times. if you want me to print those here i can do it to prove i did it and every time you were nice about it and said you would send another piece of graphite as soon as you could get it... but you NEVER sent it.
There was no second shipment ... you sent that to someone else and NO i dont live in a apt. i want you to tell me what the address was you sent it to... i want to see what the addy was that you are saying you sent MY graphite to...because you never ask me for it... you always said you have it.
If i didnt email you about this then why didnt you say that 2 months back when i first posted about this problem... ??
Remember that... well just go look at the beginning of this thread ... you never said i didnt send you emails ... or that you sent another pad. Read it for yourself. All you did was post a bunch of pictures of little glass men.
Ill be VERY happy for you to send my money but dont make this look like it is ME ...because you know its not.
If your going to have a business dont get mad at the customers when your shipment is broken when they get it.
If you did reship my graphite why did you never tell me you were going to reship it?? why didnt i ever hear that i should be looking for it?? YOu never ask my address ... so what address did you ship to?? id really like to know.

this is my email.... and paypal ........ khansalembics@gmail.com

[menty666]

across the street from airgas i see

That way they can just run a line from their industrial oxy tank to his shop and put him on a meter.

That'd be pretty fantastic, actually.

[khan]

Here they are Bullet... my emails to you from Dec. 2012 thru March of this year.
I didnt post the original one when i told you i got damaged goods.

Mark Withers 12/27/12
Dan, 2012
I dont understand, I send an email telling you about the brakeage of the slab you sent with pictures included. Then i called to let you know and you said you would ship out another one. After not seeing it arrive i asked you about it on the forum and you said again it was mailed. But i have not seen it.
Is there a problem? I do really need the slab that i originally ordered.
Can you send it?
Thanks Dan, I know you are busy and have a million things to think about especially here at Christmas. I take orders and ship out specialty flask for ppl and i know how behind i am this time of year.
I just wanted to know if there was a problem and i shouldnt be expecting the package in the mail.
Thanks.
Daniel Shoults <dankrides@gmail.com>

12/27/12

to me
I'm sorry. I erased your email before I got your address. I was hoping you would email me soon. I thought on the forum it was someone else. So sorry about that. I will send you a few extra pieces for the delay.
Once again. I apologize for the wait. I will make it worth it to you.

I couldn't find where it erased it too. I must have archived it or something. I've been trying to find a way to contact you. I figured you would get back ahold of me. I didn't realize you were on the forum too. When you posted that, I had all my orders out so I thought you were taken care of.

BulletproofGlassworks.com Michigan hand blown glass
Daniel Shoults <dankrides@gmail.com>

12/28/12

to me
Did my last message go through? I had bad service. Just checking.


Mark Withers 12/28/12
Dan,
No problem at all... i do understand cause i have 3 ppl right now waiting on their stuff im making for them... so i do understand how easy it is to misplace someones email or address or something.
Thanks a bunch. If you need anything just let me know.


Mark Withers Jan 7
Dan,
Still checking the mailman every day..... wondering why i dont see my slab?
Daniel Shoults <dankrides@gmail.com>

Jan 7

to me
My supplier had me delayed like a mofo. I got a decent amount of graphite to make up for this crazy delay. I hope it will be enough for the wait.



Mark Withers Jan 11
Thanks Dan, :)
Daniel Shoults <dankrides@gmail.com>

Jan 12

to me
They are larger slabs. And I'll send you two. My bad. Life's been crazy around here and 5 slabs broke during the Christmas break. I've been trying to catch up. Shipping is expensive on these and when I have to ship multiple times it kills my profit and I'm just a broke glassblower. Plus the delay from my supplier killed me. I hope you can understand and you will be getting more than you paid for.
Thanks.
Dan

Mark Withers Jan 12
Dan,
Believe me i do really understand cause i make and sell specialized flask for esoteric alchemist. I also have had a terrable time with breakage during the christmas season. Its just been all i can do to try and catch up. And like you said the shipping is eating me alive. Especially when i have to ship to like Canada ($50.00) or France..($70.00). And its one thing to send it once but sending it twice or even 3 times in one case is just depressing....and you might as well forget collecting if you buy insurance...
So, i do really understand...No worries.



Mark Withers Jan 29
Dan,
Still waiting. Wondering. Its been like a month and a half since i first ordered that slab.
If the problem is that you dont have any slabs and you dont expect to be getting any then just send me some blocks and that will be fine.
IF you are expecting to get some slabs then can you let me know when you expect to ship mine so i know when to look for it.
Please let me know when you expect to send it.

Daniel Shoults <dankrides@gmail.com>

Jan 29

to me
I am totally still sending you a slab. I have been sick and that equaled broke. So I'm trying to get ahead because I have 5 people I need to send replacement pads to at 15$ a package. I apologiZe. I didn't forget about you. I think about it daily actually.


Mark Withers Mar 1
Dan,
I am wondering because i have not heard anything from you or recieved my slab that ive been waiting for. I noticed on the forum that you said back at the start of Feb. that you were sending out slabs to those who had been waiting but i never did get anything. So, are you still going to send it? When? I just need to know.
Thanks much,
Mark Withers <khansalembics@gmail.com>


Mark Withers Mar 18
to Daniel
Dan,
I am wondering because i have not heard anything from you or recieved my slab that ive been waiting for. I noticed on the forum that you said back at the start of Feb. that you were sending out slabs to those who had been waiting but i never did get anything. So, are you still going to send it? When? I just need to know.
Thanks much,

Mark Withers

[Greymatter Glass]

yeah, I keep telling them some day they're gonna come in and there's gonna be a big hose draped over the fence and into my building, but I won't have any idea what it's all about and they should probably just ignore it.

[Organik]

yeah, I keep telling them some day they're gonna come in and there's gonna be a big hose draped over the fence and into my building, but I won't have any idea what it's all about and they should probably just ignore it.

Sounds like a viable solution to the recent price raise on tanks at airgas.

[Greymatter Glass]

Starting to rethink my offer. Someone that puts me on blast without calling or emailing me shouldn't get to keep the graphite. So ship it all to Doug (not just the broken pieces, the block also). His address is above. Show me a tracking number and I will refund your 75$. Keep in mind that I'm pretty sure that $75 included shipping and I paid over 20$ twice to ship it. But all that aside, I will give you your refund as soon as the graphite is shipped. :)
Thanks again. :)

Don't drag me into this one .... :)

Anyone else, that's my address for a bit longer

[Greymatter Glass]

That way they can just run a line from their industrial oxy tank to his shop and put him on a meter.

That'd be pretty fantastic, actually.

I actually floated the idea past a couple of their office guys over there, they said it would never happen, but if it could it would be like $50k for the double wall stainless pipe run under a city street.... nightmare :P

[Organik]

Sorry I actually was quoting your idea of the ol' hose over the fence idea :]

[EFS]

Two pieces of advice

1. Wrap shit in bubble wrap

2. If you are stressing over 60 bucks to ship these BLOW MORE GLASS! Or maybe quit blowing glass. You decide!

Sorry bro but this seems a little hard to believe.

[Dan Kooper]

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m218/dankshizzle/3C532F00-19CF-46B2-8433-F67829789BC5-1225-000001A84F67B6BB_zps9506c9d8.jpg
Please send me my graphite back. Not just the broken pieces. All of them please. :)
I refunded all of your money. Even the shipping.
I really appreciate you posting my real name on a public forum. Those messages are old and irrelevant. I said you didn't contact me in the past few months about this. I shipped the second package to the same place I shipped the first. I have a log book with your address still in it. I did make it right, but now I just paid you 75$.
Have a nice day. :)

[Dan Kooper]

Two pieces of advice

1. Wrap shit in bubble wrap

2. If you are stressing over 60 bucks to ship these BLOW MORE GLASS! Or maybe quit blowing glass. You decide!

Sorry bro but this seems a little hard to believe.


Hahahahahahaha you have owed my friend a tube for years!!! Judge tooby does that ring a bell? He has been waiting for a new tube from you for what 2-3 years? Gong is a good friend. Give him his toob!!!

[LooseSeal Baller]

dude ^ you have got to be the rudest business man I've ever encountered.

If you would have taken care of him in the first place none of this would be happening it's your own fault bro. just sayin

peace, and good day to u

[mellofello]

wow

bulletproof I think you need to take a moment and consider how you represent yourself as a business. I don't know how much of what I've seen in this thread has been a fair representation of how you normally do business but it certainly hasn't encouraged me to find out for myself.

getting personal mixed up with business is something you want to try and avoid

[turdhole]

did PayPal come out the only winner here? If funds were sent as "goods" both way then PayPal got to collect double fees. *shakes fist at PayPal*

[LooseSeal Baller]

wow

bulletproof I think you need to take a moment and consider how you represent yourself as a business. I don't know how much of what I've seen in this thread has been a fair representation of how you normally do business but it certainly hasn't encouraged me to find out for myself.

getting personal mixed up with business is something you want to try and avoid

you see tho, this is why he doesn't give a shit, about being rude or anything else.

his business of selling graphite didn't work out so now he has a free pass to be a jerk.

[Dan Kooper]

I just want my graphite back homie. I could use it. I'm using a 6x6 square.

I don't get it, I'm rude for asking for my graphite back? Shouldn't you return the item if you are not happy with it?

[jw721]

I can not for the life of me understand why you wouldn't wrap the graphite in bubble wrap, not trying to be offensive or confrontational, just can't understand that move. Also, I never ship anything over $40 through USPS, the claims process for a lost or damaged item is a nightmare. Fedex claims are a lot easier and our fedex rep told us that more often than not, if the claim is under $100, it gets approved without anyone even investigating. At least with fedex, the seller can refund the buyer and hopefully get awarded the claim later on down the road.

[LooseSeal Baller]

I just want my graphite back homie. I could use it. I'm using a 6x6 square.

I don't get it, I'm rude for asking for my graphite back? Shouldn't you return the item if you are not happy with it?

come on now you know that's not what i was referencing. Its the whole thread just one smart comment after another to someone who was a customer of yours.

and yeah wanting the graphite back is just the icing on the cake.

If it were me, i'd tell you to take a hike, your not getting your broke ass graphite back.

[mellofello]

I wasn't referring specifically to the request for it to be returned but the whole thread except maybe the first few posts. If it was me I wouldn't be sending you it back without upfront payment for the return shipping and from the way you've been acting if I did send it back I would be making sure it got to you in even more pieces than I received it in

[Dan Kooper]

When it was one slab I just used a strong box and never had a problem. Then around Christmas it went to hell. I think they were getting sick of all the large heavy boxes? They broke every one that went out one day. Like 15 packages. I lost around 1300$ in shipping and graphite. It sucked. Right around Christmas. His was the last one to fix. But I shipped a new one after this thread was made. Then I got blasted and insulted so I guess it pissed me off. If I offended you, my bad. I just don't get how someone blasts someone without even trying to contact them. I figured he would have called or something. Whatever. It's past now. He has the money and I'm probably not getting my graphite back. I just want to forget I ever sold it.

[Dan Kooper]

Where was I rude? I think you are reading to deep into things

[kbinkster]

I'm not trying to be a smart alex or act like I know better, but there are a lot of things throughout this experience that stand out as what not to do when you have a business.

Lessons to learn from this experience, that maybe you guys or someone else can benefit from with their business:

*Decide on a return policy and have it in place and in your item description before you sell anything. Common things seen return policies are the return of defective merchandise, who pays the shipping back, restocking fee, if any. Damage from shipping should be addressed (insurance recommended)

*Properly package the item. Bubble wrap is cheap, wadded up newsprint is even cheaper (but go with what will best protect the product). If packaging costs too much, raise the price of your shipping and handling or the price of the item. Just shipping something loose in a box is inviting trouble. The heavier an item, the worse it will be treated.

*Buy insurance and delivery confirmation. Of course, for an insurance claim to be honored, you probably would have had to have packed it better than you did.

*Buyer: if you buy through PayPal, and have a problem, try to resolve it with the seller, first, and if you feel like you are getting the run around, open a dispute with PayPal and let them help you get it sorted out. Don't wait for months and months.

*Seller: document everything, and get delivery confirmation so if you send something out, you have proof.

Those are just a few things I see that if people just did more often, they would have fewer problems.

[kbinkster]

And treat each other with respect. If you can't solve it privately and have to bring it to the public, be as professional as possible.

[Organik]

did PayPal come out the only winner here? If funds were sent as "goods" both way then PayPal got to collect double fees. *shakes fist at PayPal*

Yeah sounds like it, they add the fees hoping things go unresolved so they can collect payment multiple times on the same transaction.

[kbinkster]

did PayPal come out the only winner here? If funds were sent as "goods" both way then PayPal got to collect double fees. *shakes fist at PayPal*


Yeah sounds like it, they add the fees hoping things go unresolved so they can collect payment multiple times on the same transaction.

There's a time frame within which you can refund a payment and your fees will be refunded, as well. I don't know if they keep a cut of that, I'll have to see, but I don't think they do. Time is of the essence.

[Dan Kooper]

Great info. I use a a crazy amount of bubble wrap. I buy it in bulk. This was a box made to hold the graphite tight. It's not that I just shipped it in a box and went. It was made for shipping the graphite and I shipped around 40 pieces before they started showing up broke. I think someone stomped or threw them. All 15 packages were broke.
The second package was wrapped very good.
Also this was like a year ago

[kbinkster]

Tutorial on filing a dispute through PayPal. You have 45 days after you send payment:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/CaseManagement/customerservice/EducationBuyerFileDispute

Refunds can be sent within 60 days of payment and your fees get credited back to you minus a $0.30 fee:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/bizui/SendRefund&bn_r=o

[PyroChixRock]

He shipped graphite. He shipped graphite again. He refunded the customer. Issue has been resolved, thread closing to avoid bickering. Thanks.